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United States2103 Posts
On February 07 2015 06:58 UberNuB wrote:
I think it's funny how so many people QQ saying their race is awful and that's the reason they lose. Then go on to say it's too difficult to switch races and stay competitive. Yet, lots of people think they can change games and stay competitive.
gl, to Scarlett, but changing to an established game just doesn't seem viable.
I think, more than anything, it's your passion for the game, that makes the transition viable. No one wants to race switch unless they actually like the game and like the race. She likes Dota 2 way more than SC2 right now, and she's been playing it quite frequently for a while now, so she's pretty good at it. If she has the drive, I'm pretty confident she could reach foreign pro-level in <6 months.
Speaking for myself, I don't like any game enough to ever try to play it truly competitively. It takes a lot of time, which I don't really have to learn a new competitive game. But if she plays Dota 2 for a large amount of her life, I think she could do just fine at it.
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8750 Posts
On February 07 2015 06:14 Pontius Pirate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 06:01 virpi wrote:
I have to agree on the age thing. I think that the whole "you can't play well after 25" stuff has to do with the fact that most
korean players are basically burned out when they're 22 or 23. (especially kespa players) And then there's always the dreaded military service, which looms over every korean e-sport pro.
With deliberate practice and a healthy lifestyle it should easily be possible to compete at the highest level until 30 or even 35. Of course, it's getting harder over time (less motivation, other obligations, etc.), but it's possible. Bomber basically peaked last year and he was 26 back then. Or just think of Nestea. (of course, SC2 was young back then, but his accomplishments still stand for themselves.) The issue that is often cited is the decrease of the speed of small motor movements such as in the fingers that occurs after 26. It's disingenuous to cite other sports that are more reliant on one's full body to perform at a professional level.
I don't see how it's disingenuous. I checked the dictionary just in case I was confused, and still don't understand how you're using it. In any case, most people cite musicians, not athletes.
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1. I hope she comes back.
2. If foreigners continue to put education first they'll never be as good as Koreans. I'd really like to have at least some foreigners who treat SC2 as a serious job instead of a hobby they make money off.
3. She seems to have no clue about biology. SC2 is the one activity which engages the brain the most so it totally makes sense that the decline starts much earlier. Not to mention that after years of SC2 we have proof that your performance goes down if you get old.
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On February 07 2015 05:26 goswser wrote:
The decline with age is definitely overstated. People say the same about other sports, and you then you have guys like Anderson Silva fighting at age 40. But for some reason people in esports think your mind and reflexes go dull by age 25.
steroids help a bit I think
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Man esports is getting quite big! A guardian article announcing something like this seems quite suprising.
I wish her luck though.
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On February 07 2015 05:37 Whiplash wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 05:26 goswser wrote:
The decline with age is definitely overstated. People say the same about other sports, and you then you have guys like Anderson Silva fighting at age 40. But for some reason people in esports think your mind and reflexes go dull by age 25. I think this mainly comes from the old Korean Brood War mindset, where players had to eventually do their military service in their early-mid 20's, and that would pretty much be career ending. This doesn't even account for burnout rate which is very real due to the shear amount of time that BW pros played back in the day.
I guess it's another thing that, especially in the foreign world, pro are not doing enough for their health, while "real" athletes are always in good physical shape.
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Damn it, it's been like 3 weeks now and it's still a punch in the chest every time I read a title like this.
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United States2103 Posts
On February 07 2015 07:12 ilovegroov wrote:
1. I hope she comes back.
2. If foreigners continue to put education first they'll never be as good as Koreans. I'd really like to have at least some foreigners who treat SC2 as a serious job instead of a hobby they make money off.
3. She seems to have no clue about biology. SC2 is the one activity which engages the brain the most so it totally makes sense that the decline starts much earlier. Not to mention that after years of SC2 we have proof that your performance goes down if you get old.
@2. That's sort of bad advice. While I think it's cool to follow your passion, SC2 is not a very viable career. LoL and even CS:GO are much better. Ultimately, you're just an entertainer when you go down the path of SC2 pro. Prioritizing other careers seems like a very rational thing to do, and should never be looked down upon. Also, tons of foreign players play the game full-time as a "serious job", and most of them suck. Just sayin'...
@3. I don't have any scientific data on this, but I'm pretty sure the reason people get worse as they age is due to physical limitations more than anything else. Do I think someone could play SC2 competitively for over 10 years and not have some form of wrist/arm/back/whatever issues? Hell no. But I don't think they are any worse off than a football player or a baseball pitcher either. If the physical health problems can be averted, I think people would be fine at the age of 35-40. After all, SC2 is mostly a habitual game than anything else. It's barely a strategy game, and if done well, does not necessarily need to be APM-heavy. Though APM will always help.
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On February 07 2015 06:58 UberNuB wrote:
I think it's funny how so many people QQ saying their race is awful and that's the reason they lose. Then go on to say it's too difficult to switch races and stay competitive. Yet, lots of people think they can change games and stay competitive.
gl, to Scarlett, but changing to an established game just doesn't seem viable.
It definitely seems... optimistic. She seems okay from her stream, but hitting 6k by spamming Meepo and playing competitively are two entirely different beasts, and that's assuming she finds a team willing to take her. I can easily see this going very badly, like it did for Babyknight and Select.
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On February 07 2015 06:14 Pontius Pirate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 06:01 virpi wrote:
I have to agree on the age thing. I think that the whole "you can't play well after 25" stuff has to do with the fact that most
korean players are basically burned out when they're 22 or 23. (especially kespa players) And then there's always the dreaded military service, which looms over every korean e-sport pro.
With deliberate practice and a healthy lifestyle it should easily be possible to compete at the highest level until 30 or even 35. Of course, it's getting harder over time (less motivation, other obligations, etc.), but it's possible. Bomber basically peaked last year and he was 26 back then. Or just think of Nestea. (of course, SC2 was young back then, but his accomplishments still stand for themselves.) The issue that is often cited is the decrease of the speed of small motor movements such as in the fingers that occurs after 26. It's disingenuous to cite other sports that are more reliant on one's full body to perform at a professional level.
I don't understand how this could be a thing when you see Satriani, Vai or Malmsteen are still as fucking fast as they were when they were younger.
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>Switches to DotA 2
>"will be back at end of February"
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On February 07 2015 08:06 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 06:14 Pontius Pirate wrote:On February 07 2015 06:01 virpi wrote:
I have to agree on the age thing. I think that the whole "you can't play well after 25" stuff has to do with the fact that most
korean players are basically burned out when they're 22 or 23. (especially kespa players) And then there's always the dreaded military service, which looms over every korean e-sport pro.
With deliberate practice and a healthy lifestyle it should easily be possible to compete at the highest level until 30 or even 35. Of course, it's getting harder over time (less motivation, other obligations, etc.), but it's possible. Bomber basically peaked last year and he was 26 back then. Or just think of Nestea. (of course, SC2 was young back then, but his accomplishments still stand for themselves.) The issue that is often cited is the decrease of the speed of small motor movements such as in the fingers that occurs after 26. It's disingenuous to cite other sports that are more reliant on one's full body to perform at a professional level. I don't understand how this could be a thing when you see Satriani, Vai or Malmsteen are still as fucking fast as they were when they were younger.
I know nothing about the biology of this, but does someone have some reputable scientific backup for the idea that there is a significant decline in "speed of small motor movements" after your mid-20s? I hear this mentioned all the time like it's a fact but never any backup given. I remember Tastosis talking about this idea at some point and not that they're experts on this but they were saying that it's a myth.
Not to mention the whole "finger speed" concept makes it sound like APM is a key deciding factor in who the top SC2 players are and that just has never been true.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On February 07 2015 07:07 Blargh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 06:58 UberNuB wrote:
I think it's funny how so many people QQ saying their race is awful and that's the reason they lose. Then go on to say it's too difficult to switch races and stay competitive. Yet, lots of people think they can change games and stay competitive.
gl, to Scarlett, but changing to an established game just doesn't seem viable. I think, more than anything, it's your passion for the game, that makes the transition viable. No one wants to race switch unless they actually like the game and like the race. She likes Dota 2 way more than SC2 right now, and she's been playing it quite frequently for a while now, so she's pretty good at it. If she has the drive, I'm pretty confident she could reach foreign pro-level in <6 months. Speaking for myself, I don't like any game enough to ever try to play it truly competitively. It takes a lot of time, which I don't really have to learn a new competitive game. But if she plays Dota 2 for a large amount of her life, I think she could do just fine at it. Although I don't disagree with your sentiments.
1. To reach pro level in 6 months she has to already be quite competent. It's a team game, you need a lot more than just grinding pubs to be able to play well with teams and more importantly, find a good team. There are droves of pub players who are better than most pro players in pubs, it's not entirely the same skill set.
2. 'Foreign pro-level' in Dota is a meaningless statement. There are no 'foreigners' in Dota. In regards to mechanical ability, the best players are quite evenly spread out. Even if one would draw an analogy of the Chinese being the Korean's of Dota (which is wrong on many levels), the Chinese really aren't known for individual skill.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I don't see her doing anything significantly in Dota 2, but if she wants to try and shes more happy about it sure.
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On February 07 2015 08:33 Kipsate wrote:
I don't see her doing anything significantly in Dota 2, but if she wants to try and shes more happy about it sure.
actually she'd prob be a top player at any game she actually puts effort in, like most people who were top players at some point
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>Sacha
??
It' s remind me cat food.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On February 07 2015 08:41 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 08:33 Kipsate wrote:
I don't see her doing anything significantly in Dota 2, but if she wants to try and shes more happy about it sure. actually she'd prob be a top player at any game she actually puts effort in, like most people who were top players at some point
Several other Starcraft players tried and haven't gotten it, she has no history in competitive Dota or teamgames to my knowledge for that matter(and those others did). I see no reason why she succeeds while others fail.
You need more then skill and passion to play in a good dota 2 team.
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On February 07 2015 08:45 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 08:41 ROOTFayth wrote:On February 07 2015 08:33 Kipsate wrote:
I don't see her doing anything significantly in Dota 2, but if she wants to try and shes more happy about it sure. actually she'd prob be a top player at any game she actually puts effort in, like most people who were top players at some point Several other Starcraft players tried and haven't gotten it, she has no history in competitive Dota or teamgames to my knowledge for that matter(and those others did). I see no reason why she succeeds while others fail. You need more then skill and passion to play in a good dota 2 team.
She apparently was a really good Dota 1 player, but I dont' know if that counts as history in competitive play.
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On February 07 2015 08:48 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 08:45 Kipsate wrote:On February 07 2015 08:41 ROOTFayth wrote:On February 07 2015 08:33 Kipsate wrote:
I don't see her doing anything significantly in Dota 2, but if she wants to try and shes more happy about it sure. actually she'd prob be a top player at any game she actually puts effort in, like most people who were top players at some point Several other Starcraft players tried and haven't gotten it, she has no history in competitive Dota or teamgames to my knowledge for that matter(and those others did). I see no reason why she succeeds while others fail. You need more then skill and passion to play in a good dota 2 team. She apparently was a really good Dota 1 player, but I dont' know if that counts as history in competitive play.
Select was also supposedly a really good dota 1 player, and we all know how his venture into dota2 went, lol.
Would be neat if she accomplishes more than select if she really makes the switch though.
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On February 07 2015 07:09 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 06:14 Pontius Pirate wrote:On February 07 2015 06:01 virpi wrote:
I have to agree on the age thing. I think that the whole "you can't play well after 25" stuff has to do with the fact that most
korean players are basically burned out when they're 22 or 23. (especially kespa players) And then there's always the dreaded military service, which looms over every korean e-sport pro.
With deliberate practice and a healthy lifestyle it should easily be possible to compete at the highest level until 30 or even 35. Of course, it's getting harder over time (less motivation, other obligations, etc.), but it's possible. Bomber basically peaked last year and he was 26 back then. Or just think of Nestea. (of course, SC2 was young back then, but his accomplishments still stand for themselves.) The issue that is often cited is the decrease of the speed of small motor movements such as in the fingers that occurs after 26. It's disingenuous to cite other sports that are more reliant on one's full body to perform at a professional level. I don't see how it's disingenuous. I checked the dictionary just in case I was confused, and still don't understand how you're using it. In any case, most people cite musicians, not athletes.
Cite popular musicians? because this certainly does not apply to classical musicians.
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EPT
