The Ro32 groups for WCS were announced after the final day of Challenger League. Each group was drawn from 4 containers. None of the groups have been assigned a letter or order of play yet.
Groups look very evenly distributed - very exciting to see all the matchups in almost every group. I only sort of wanted a super group of death, right now I guess the hardest group is 2 just because it has two koreans in it.
On January 26 2015 13:24 Circumstance wrote: I write out the names for every group in my poll, lichter just swoops in and drops this poll into the main forum.
Don't sleep on Happy. He's won TvTs against Koreans before. He's certainly not favored, but he's not one to simply be counted out as a victim of an unlucky draw.
On January 26 2015 13:48 Circumstance wrote: Don't sleep on Happy. He's won TvTs against Koreans before. He's certainly not favored, but he's not one to simply be counted out as a victim of an unlucky draw.
i really don't see it happening this time though. Polt maybe but no way against ForGG, only MLorD could make something like that happen.
Has might have a chance in his group. I'm leaning a bit towards Sen getting through his group as well, but I feel strongly that if he has to face off against Welmu, it will not end well. Statistically speaking his worst matchup has always been ZvP.
I don't see why the matches can't be announced when they draw them, I can understand the dates but just don't see why they need to be announced together
On January 26 2015 14:07 stuchiu wrote: Maybe they need to reschedule based on what times ppl can do, shift the groups to make sure no one is traveling abroad and forced to forfeit?
well the groups are played offline in studio, I don't see why they would need to change individual matches inside the group?
On January 26 2015 14:07 stuchiu wrote: Maybe they need to reschedule based on what times ppl can do, shift the groups to make sure no one is traveling abroad and forced to forfeit?
well the groups are played offline in studio, I don't see why they would need to change individual matches inside the group?
yea that part makes no sense. Maybe they're using a seeded system with WCS Points? Whoever has the most WCS point is seeded 1st and plays the person with the least amount? So they need to calculate it. Thats all I can think of.
On January 26 2015 14:07 stuchiu wrote: Maybe they need to reschedule based on what times ppl can do, shift the groups to make sure no one is traveling abroad and forced to forfeit?
well the groups are played offline in studio, I don't see why they would need to change individual matches inside the group?
yea that part makes no sense. Maybe they're using a seeded system with WCS Points? Whoever has the most WCS point is seeded 1st and plays the person with the least amount? So they need to calculate it. Thats all I can think of.
yea could be, even that isn't hard to precalculate though, figure out the seed for every player in premier (can also include the players that played today) #1 to #32 before drawing the groups and then it's easy, all ties are already figured out
On January 26 2015 14:28 Circumstance wrote: Has vs. FireCake, or "This guy must be hacking, why else would he go Tempests without even scouting my Infestation Pit?"
"This guy clearly mixed up our races, why is there a nexus at my natural?"
According to my information the drawing is not in accordance with their own rules. Group 2 has 3 EU players which is something they excluded from being valid, It also sucks there are no published rules about that (or anything). How hard can it be.
I cannot believe how well distributed the nationalities are. Obviously China/Korea/USA look higher, but that was just a result of the "foreign Koreans" and NA including only CA + USA.
Oh damn I had assumed that the RO32 was going to still be region segragated, since it's done separately in America and Europe. Will this is cool, more mixing it up early on.
On January 26 2015 15:33 TBO wrote: According to my information the drawing is not in accordance with their own rules. Group 2 has 3 EU players which is something they excluded from being valid, It also sucks there are no published rules about that (or anything). How hard can it be.
Sorry if this tweet comes off as condescending. It's not my intention. It's just the only thing I could find from someone working with WCS explaining the draws. It's possible to have 3 players from EU if one of them is from the CIS pot and you get another EU player instead of Latin America or SEA
would have been Serral and ForGG from pots 1 and 2, Happy from pot 3, and Polt from pot 4
To add some statistics to the comment earlier about region distribution, and I know that the zones are pre-allocated places, so not fighting for spots, but it's interesting to see some of the populations of these countries along with places earned. The number of the right is WCS spots per 100 million of the population.
If you're born in Norway, looks like you have the highest % chance of becoming a pro sc2 gamer - congratulations to you!
On January 26 2015 15:33 TBO wrote: According to my information the drawing is not in accordance with their own rules. Group 2 has 3 EU players which is something they excluded from being valid, It also sucks there are no published rules about that (or anything). How hard can it be.
Sorry if this tweet comes off as condescending. It's not my intention. It's just the only thing I could find from someone working with WCS explaining the draws. It's possible to have 3 players from EU if one of them is from the CIS pot and you get another EU player instead of Latin America or SEA
would have been Serral and ForGG from pots 1 and 2, Happy from pot 3, and Polt from pot 4
CIS is not a WCS region though. I already said in another thread that separating CIS from Europe didn't make any sense but I still can't understand the logic behind this. Happy comes from Europe qualifiers, not CIS.
Sorry if I'm a little agressive and you're obviously not the one I'm targeting here but this is so silly.
To add some statistics to the comment earlier about region distribution, and I know that the zones are pre-allocated places, so not fighting for spots, but it's interesting to see some of the populations of these countries along with places earned. The number of the right is WCS spots per 100 million of the population.
If you're born in Norway, looks like you have the highest % chance of becoming a pro sc2 gamer - congratulations to you!
Finland is not far away! Looks like nordic countries are doing great
On January 26 2015 15:33 TBO wrote: According to my information the drawing is not in accordance with their own rules. Group 2 has 3 EU players which is something they excluded from being valid, It also sucks there are no published rules about that (or anything). How hard can it be.
Sorry if this tweet comes off as condescending. It's not my intention. It's just the only thing I could find from someone working with WCS explaining the draws. It's possible to have 3 players from EU if one of them is from the CIS pot and you get another EU player instead of Latin America or SEA
would have been Serral and ForGG from pots 1 and 2, Happy from pot 3, and Polt from pot 4
CIS is not a WCS region though. I already said in another thread that separating CIS from Europe didn't make any sense but I still can't understand the logic behind this. Happy comes from Europe qualifiers, not CIS.
Sorry if I'm a little agressive and you're obviously not the one I'm targeting here but this is so silly.
dont worry I think it was dumb too. what are they going to do when the number of CIS players isn't consistent from season to season? Just arbitrarily make new pot rules?
To add some statistics to the comment earlier about region distribution, and I know that the zones are pre-allocated places, so not fighting for spots, but it's interesting to see some of the populations of these countries along with places earned. The number of the right is WCS spots per 100 million of the population.
If you're born in Norway, looks like you have the highest % chance of becoming a pro sc2 gamer - congratulations to you!
just wow... I cannot remember when last I was so hyped for the RO32 of a foreign event! Still a bit too early to judge the new WCS system, but so far I am absolutely loving it! :D
Also, as an aside, you guys rock. I've been lurking in LR threads for about two and a half years now, I think, and I am almost always entertained and informed when doing so. So keep at it, guys and ladies, this has always been a place that I can retreat to when I'm down, so you've all made a difference in the life of at least one depressed person.
Starcraft fans are best fans. Muchness of love to you all! <3
About the ZvZ group, I used to hate the matchup (both watching playing) now I really enjoy both instead.
The roach war era was bad for ZvZ but as soon as I dropped the idea that you had to go roach it got a lot more fun. Pro games have been a lot more diversified lately too, I'm hype for the ZvZ group! Especially since there are some really amazing players in it =D
just watching the drawing - the way they messed up is that Naniwa had 0% chance to be in group 1. Kinda fucked up.
Does anyone knows how it was decided which 4 players were in the SEA/SA/EU bowl? All four of them are rather low ranked in WCS points (but Targa and Naniwa had less than them). So random? Arbitrarily? Based on WCS points but errors were made?
If the Swarm Host change happens before the groups than RIP Firecake. Otherwise group of death is obviously Group 4 because that will kill the most amount of viewers.
On January 26 2015 19:11 rotta wrote: Yeah, totally fair for Serral. :O
Serral has a great chance to get out of his group.His tvz has always been insanely good vs korean terrans. 0-2 vs SuperNova at Dreamhack 2013 Bucharest where had made his debut and had an epic series. 2-3 vs Taeja at ASUS ROG 2014 Winter. 1-2 vs TY at Dreamhack 2014 Bucharest 1-2 vs jjakji at Dreamhack 2014 Bucharest
I love this new format I honestly think some of these matchups would almost never happen if it werent for the new wcs. I am really excited for some of these groups!
Firecake will win his first game, loose in the winner match and loose in the looser match but he will makes us enjoy full 6-7 hour of Premier League Swarm Host awesomeness.
I heard rumors from an insider that ESL has already prepared the NA caster team to take the relay of EU casters after 00:00:00 CET . Both have been told to prepare jokes and community games and twitch chat contest to distract the viewers, including a guess who mime of starcraft units.
On January 26 2015 19:40 klup wrote: Firecake will win his first game, loose in the winner match and loose in the looser match but he will makes us enjoy full 6-7 hour of Premier League Swarm Host awesomeness.
I heard rumors from an insider that ESL has already prepared the NA caster team to take the relay of EU casters after 00:00:00 CET . Both have been told to prepare jokes and community games and twitch chat contest to distract the viewers, including a guess who mime of starcraft units.
I think firecake will lose 0-4 =P I also hope so, but I guess he would get banned anyways or end up in hospital because of his flaming, so his results don't matter Kappa
I have to say that WCS has a pretty nice lineup this season. Still, some of my favourites missing, like Vortix, Scarlett, Grubby ... and of course Starbuck.
On January 26 2015 18:54 stuchiu wrote: https://twitter.com/nathaniastv/status/559568577884209154 @nathaniastv: For those who can't listen, the pools were EU1, CN/TW/CIS, EU2/SEA/SA, and NA. The draw pools were all approved beforehand.
I agree with what has been already said in this topic. It is weird to have CIS as a region in the group draw when CIS does not have their own Challenger league.
Why don't they go with the regions they chose in Challenger?
Europe, Africa, Middle East, 14
North America (USA, Canada), 8
China, 4
Latin America, 2
Oceania, Southeast Asia, 2
Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, 2
No one remains in Premier league, all players go back to play in Challenger in the next season (remember the format). So the question is not about maintaining region ratios.
For example, the group draw pools could have been:
EU1, 8
EU2 + SEA, 8
CN + TW + SA, 8
NA, 8
It is also possible that there is a good reason for the seemingly random CIS region, but we just don't know it (yet).
group 7 group of death, it has morrow who won an iem, tlo who won some sc2 beta tournament if im not misstaken and violet who is korean i asume and some chinese player that could be really good
jim probably gonna get first in his group, depends on how much better naniwa can get by then. naniwa second at least just cuz i never heard of that terran and he can make sentries vs zerg.
On January 26 2015 20:43 iknowthetrue wrote: @Shellshock "pretty much confirms China is as good as Korea these days. Also USA 3rd best starcraft country."
EU (10 players) > Korea/China (4 players) >USA (3 players) So shut up lol.
On January 26 2015 20:43 iknowthetrue wrote: @Shellshock "pretty much confirms China is as good as Korea these days. Also USA 3rd best starcraft country."
EU (10 players) > Korea/China (4 players) >USA (3 players) So shut up lol.
On January 26 2015 20:43 iknowthetrue wrote: @Shellshock "pretty much confirms China is as good as Korea these days. Also USA 3rd best starcraft country."
EU (10 players) > Korea/China (4 players) >USA (3 players) So shut up lol.
OK, there are is something completely dumb and it is either this system or myself, so let's see.
They are supposed to play 4 groups in EU and 4 groups in US. So why the hell are there EU players in all of the groups by design (by drawing from those pots)? Is WCS trying to be as annoying to the players as possible with the added travel?
On January 26 2015 21:57 opisska wrote: OK, there are is something completely dumb and it is either this system or myself, so let's see.
They are supposed to play 4 groups in EU and 4 groups in US. So why the hell are there EU players in all of the groups by design (by drawing from those pots)? Is WCS trying to be as annoying to the players as possible with the added travel?
Yeah it seems quite weird to have half AM half EU if it's to force everyone to travel lol. But I guess they want a true UWCS and not WCS AM + WCS EU and then the best of the two battling in the playoffs.
I really hope they change this system for season 2. This makes no sense for many players. You travel 8h to play 2-3 bo3 games?! Huge discourage to the winners.
edit: SEA+China+Australia have to travel 8h+ anyway. EU+China in EU AM+LatAM+AUS+SEA in NA
On January 26 2015 22:23 Dingodile wrote: I really hope they change this system for season 2. This makes no sense for many players. You travel 8h to play 2-3 bo3 games?! Huge discourage to the winners.
That's what the koreans did for 2 years. And it's the whole point of the new system, making EU players fight CN, NA or SEA players. If everyone stays at home, then it'd be the same as last year.
On January 26 2015 22:23 Dingodile wrote: I really hope they change this system for season 2. This makes no sense for many players. You travel 8h to play 2-3 bo3 games?! Huge discourage to the winners.
That's what the koreans did for 2 years. And it's the whole point of the new system, making EU players fight CN, NA or SEA players. If everyone stays at home, then it'd be the same as last year.
Yeah but isn't it a huge problem for semipros who also study like Welmu? I mean if you want to avoid too much jetlag you have to be there 1 or 2 whole days before the actual event ; add the flight time to that...
Also, I couldn't find info if the transatlantic flights/hotels are paid by WCS or players? All this short-notice travel is expensive as hell, but if paid by WCS, it's a little less of a problem of course (only the time, annoyance of sitting in a plane and jet-leg remain).
Thanks, that is quite cool. Still a little weird and I don't think really necessary to mix the players already in Ro32, but let's wait what the players themselves will say about it.
Group 8 seems the hardest to predict for me, ZvZ is so volatile. Snute has issues sometimes losing to preassure in the matchup, so don't count on him acing the group 4-0, although stat-wise he's the most likely to do so.
I find it weird that the dates for Ro32 haven't been set yet.. I mean, some people have to travel half across the world for this (which is ok, but I think perhaps some of them would have appreciated knowing when and where they're supposed to show up.)
Anyone know why this isn't decided yet? Did I miss something? GSL have all the dates set for the remainder of the season, for comparison.
I hope ESL has told the Players where they have to play and will not announce it when they announce it to us. Alot of VISAs have to begrabbed and Germany doesnt accept (Shorttime-)Sportsvisa for E-Sports-Players like the U.S. And we will play 4 Groups here. Could be tough for LA and PRC Players to optain a Visa in this short time.
I really thought we would play 4 Groups in Europe only with Europeens + 2 out another place and 4 groups in the US out of US, LA, SEA, PRC and RoC
On January 26 2015 23:53 pNRG wrote: Sorry, guys, but I'm not watching group 8.
Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Indeed, language is a powerful weapon. There is no objectively "fair" way to do this, so you can always find a way to formulate your opinion so that it sounds terribly biased for someone. That however doesn't make it true.
Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
I dont know, i've heard plenty about visa issues before.
On January 27 2015 00:04 Teapea wrote: All I can say is that I feel for Serral, 16 yo guy gets to premier first time, get the group of death.
Actually he was in the previous season, but got 2-0'd by MC and Happy. But has improved from that time and also doubt he will be as nervous as his first time.
Still a very difficult group even though he only needs to really work on his zvt, which I find rather great as long as he remembers not to a-move with his whole army when it comes to drops.
Group 1: Major Targa Group 2: Forgg Polt Group 3: Xigua Bunny Group 4: Showtime Has/Huk Group 5: Naniwa Jim Group 6: Hydra Sen Group 7: Macsed TLO Group 8: Snute iAsonu
Some players like PiG or TargA already know where they are playing while some players still not know if they are going to play in Germany or USA. I just don't get why this has not been decided yet.
On January 27 2015 01:41 Aeromi wrote: Some players like PiG or TargA already know where they are playing while some players still not know if they are going to play in Germany or USA. I just don't get why this has not been decided yet.
cause this season has been kind of a wreck so far. they're doing everything at the last minute.
On January 27 2015 01:41 Aeromi wrote: Some players like PiG or TargA already know where they are playing while some players still not know if they are going to play in Germany or USA. I just don't get why this has not been decided yet.
So it's sure now that the groups will stand and there will be no redraw? If that is the case it is a shameful act of arbitrariness. I wonder why there is no drama around the totally botched group selection, when there is always drama around meaningless things...
all these protoss haters voting for the group with the most korean terrans lol... that group is not the group of death bcuz its likely that those 2 koreans will make it out.
the group of the death in this situation is group 5, imo. even tho there's a up-and-coming player in there, u have to look at the competitiveness in that group among all the other groups. the likes of naniwa, jim, and suppy are all forces to be reckon with.
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
On January 27 2015 01:41 Aeromi wrote: Some players like PiG or TargA already know where they are playing while some players still not know if they are going to play in Germany or USA. I just don't get why this has not been decided yet.
Call me crazy, but I think there are other mediums than Twitter being used to communicate with players.
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
On January 27 2015 01:41 Aeromi wrote: Some players like PiG or TargA already know where they are playing while some players still not know if they are going to play in Germany or USA. I just don't get why this has not been decided yet.
Call me crazy, but I think there are other mediums than Twitter being used to communicate with players.
Aeromi usually has inside sources though maybe he has heard something?
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
On January 27 2015 01:41 Aeromi wrote: Some players like PiG or TargA already know where they are playing while some players still not know if they are going to play in Germany or USA. I just don't get why this has not been decided yet.
Call me crazy, but I think there are other mediums than Twitter being used to communicate with players.
PiG was contacted via Twitter to pick his country to play, TargA received a confirmation that he's going to play in Cologne. I was with PunchLine manager and he still does not know if FireCake is going to play in Germany.
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
Yes, it disgust me that they dont play 28 hours a day
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
not a single one of those are uncommitted or have any chance of dropping out for any reason assuming they had the opportunity to get in in the first place.
On January 26 2015 17:18 EvilSusan wrote: just wow... I cannot remember when last I was so hyped for the RO32 of a foreign event! Still a bit too early to judge the new WCS system, but so far I am absolutely loving it! :D
Also, as an aside, you guys rock. I've been lurking in LR threads for about two and a half years now, I think, and I am almost always entertained and informed when doing so. So keep at it, guys and ladies, this has always been a place that I can retreat to when I'm down, so you've all made a difference in the life of at least one depressed person.
Starcraft fans are best fans. Muchness of love to you all! <3
Totally agree, the hype gets real! This new system is pretty cool too, Hopefully I'll be able to watch most groups, I can't wait for groups 1, 5 and 6 though!
On January 27 2015 01:41 Aeromi wrote: Some players like PiG or TargA already know where they are playing while some players still not know if they are going to play in Germany or USA. I just don't get why this has not been decided yet.
Call me crazy, but I think there are other mediums than Twitter being used to communicate with players.
PiG was contacted via Twitter to pick his country to play, TargA received a confirmation that he's going to play in Cologne. I was with PunchLine manager and he still does not know if FireCake is going to play in Germany.
Well, seems like they're talking to players directly. PiG might've just been in the part of the world they want to take care of visa-wise (I don't know what medium they're using to make contact with the rest of the Pacific). Targa...well, he asked.
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
Yes, it disgust me that they dont play 28 hours a day
Nah I got that you were joking, but my point still stands for Musicus d:
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
Yes, it disgust me that they dont play 28 hours a day
Nah I got that you were joking, but my point still stands for Musicus d:
As a German I am offended that you think I make jokes
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
Yes, it disgust me that they dont play 28 hours a day
Nah I got that you were joking, but my point still stands for Musicus d:
As a German I am offended that you think I make jokes
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
Yes, it disgust me that they dont play 28 hours a day
Nah I got that you were joking, but my point still stands for Musicus d:
But I said nothing that would merit your answer. I'm not saying you can't go to school or study while competing in Starcraft. I'm saying that you have to prioritize WCS Premiere and schedule around it. If you can not do that, just don't play WCS. Saying "I'm not coming to the offline part, because the flight is too long and I have to study" is not ok imo. If Heromarine or any of the players you mentioned had qualifed, I'm sure they would've taken a few days of school/university to compete if necessary or postponed any exams, so it's completely fine. Polt is an excellent example of a being a pro, while pursuing an education.
Edit: I also said nothing about banning anyone, I think you really meant GumBa, not getting he was joking. Which he was of course not, since he is German.
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
Yes, it disgust me that they dont play 28 hours a day
Nah I got that you were joking, but my point still stands for Musicus d:
But I said nothing that would merit your answer. I'm not saying you can't go to school or study while competing in Starcraft. I'm saying that you have to prioritize WCS Premiere and schedule around it. If you can not do that, just don't play WCS. Saying "I'm not coming to the offline part, because the flight is too long and I have to study" is not ok imo. If Heromarine or any of the players you mentioned had qualifed, I'm sure they would've taken a few days of school/university to compete if necessary or postponed any exams, so it's completely fine. Polt is an excellent example of a being a pro, while pursuing an education.
Edit: I also said nothing about banning anyone, I think you really meant GumBa, not getting he was joking. Which he was of course not, since he is German.
Hmm but what I mean was that it would probably in the best interest of everyone to make it easier for players by reducing the potential sacrifices they have to make instead of the opposite. And "should not commit to WCS" when WCS is the prime event of the foreign scene sounds to me like a nicer way of de facto banning them. But well, since that's not going to change anything that's a pointless argument anyway.
On January 27 2015 03:21 magicallypuzzled wrote: yeah I don't get it either what exactly was wrong with the way the groups were drawn?
It offenses that some players know where they gonna play and others do not know it. And if you concider that Germany (4 of 8 Visa Groups ) and USA (the other 4) have sometimes strange visa problems when it comes to esport-athlets form RoC and PRC, we hope that WCS does not throw this up. And yeah a pure ZvZ Group... but that is biased.
This whole season 1 is a serious mess: Extremly late mappool that GSL plays on its own and we still now know (and possibly the players too) on what maps they play the premiere. Playdates announced really late while you know every GSL Playday, WCS tells you some dates 5-7 days before they go. Players from LA didnt know where to attend for the LA Qualifier for long time Now some players are allowed to choose where to play (PIG), others have been told where they play (Targa) and other just sit in the blue and guess what? Dont know if they need a visa and if they have to play next week in some land where they dont get one in time.
On January 27 2015 00:20 Circumstance wrote: Let's be clear. For the sake of *logistics*, some would rather blatantly rig the groups to guarantee one region six spots in the Top 16 instead of spreading everyone out to give every region a fair shot for their players to advance?
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
On January 27 2015 00:25 opisska wrote: Let's way how many players will drop out because of this "logistics" and then we can discuss how fair it is.
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
Yes, it disgust me that they dont play 28 hours a day
Nah I got that you were joking, but my point still stands for Musicus d:
But I said nothing that would merit your answer. I'm not saying you can't go to school or study while competing in Starcraft. I'm saying that you have to prioritize WCS Premiere and schedule around it. If you can not do that, just don't play WCS. Saying "I'm not coming to the offline part, because the flight is too long and I have to study" is not ok imo. If Heromarine or any of the players you mentioned had qualifed, I'm sure they would've taken a few days of school/university to compete if necessary or postponed any exams, so it's completely fine. Polt is an excellent example of a being a pro, while pursuing an education.
Edit: I also said nothing about banning anyone, I think you really meant GumBa, not getting he was joking. Which he was of course not, since he is German.
Hmm but what I mean was that it would probably in the best interest of everyone to make it easier for players by reducing the potential sacrifices they have to make instead of the opposite. And "should not commit to WCS" when WCS is the prime event of the foreign scene sounds to me like a nicer way of de facto banning them. But well, since that's not going to change anything that's a pointless argument anyway.
I also think it's a pointless argument, since the pros aren't even complaining. They will just go and compete, doesn't matter where they have to fly or if they have to skip school for a few days, since, well, they are pros. Once a player drops out we can continue our discussion and then I will argue, that that player should never have comitted to WCS Premier if he can't schedule around it.
They are used to travel often + this is, for me at least, the funniest WCS ever since you do not have chance often to see how are NA pros doing vs certain EU pros. Every tournament is pretty much same, but for me, matchups like Targa vs MajOr, uThermal or Bunny vs Astrea or Snute vs Kane are not something you can see everyday, especially on big stage like this. So, this WCS is something I am most looking forward to for last couple of years, so excited. Personally, I am sick of watching same people dominating NA and EU WCS like San, MC, MMA, always same people. This way is so much better and if you like Koreans you can go and watch GSL/SSL. I would prefer more if this Koreans were not able to participate so we could have full NA/EU WCS but that's other subject.
Did you guys notice that 3 Players from the upper side of the bracket of EU's lastchance-qual made it into premier, while none of the players from the other bracketside made it? It's so funny as so many ppl on TL/Reddit/Twitter were complaining about the too strong lower side of the bracket =P
Yeah I don't get it at all, especially since this was known for a long time. Having artificial groups so players don't have to fly, wtf. Most people aren't even considering that many players love being a progamer because they get to travel. Not every european will hate it that he gets to visit America. If teams had to pay themselves I could understand it, but that's obviously not the case. There is only one way this can be done, and that's the way it is being done.
Being a progamer means you have to be able to fly around the world and still perform, it's part of the job. Rigging the groups so players don't have to fly as far... still feel like people are trolling.
[quote]
Not a single person will drop out because of this, if someone does it's a joke and extremely unprofessional. The only acceptable reason is a vissa issue, but I'm sure Blizzard is working hard to ensure everybody can come, especially the Chinese players.
The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
Yes, it disgust me that they dont play 28 hours a day
Nah I got that you were joking, but my point still stands for Musicus d:
But I said nothing that would merit your answer. I'm not saying you can't go to school or study while competing in Starcraft. I'm saying that you have to prioritize WCS Premiere and schedule around it. If you can not do that, just don't play WCS. Saying "I'm not coming to the offline part, because the flight is too long and I have to study" is not ok imo. If Heromarine or any of the players you mentioned had qualifed, I'm sure they would've taken a few days of school/university to compete if necessary or postponed any exams, so it's completely fine. Polt is an excellent example of a being a pro, while pursuing an education.
Edit: I also said nothing about banning anyone, I think you really meant GumBa, not getting he was joking. Which he was of course not, since he is German.
Hmm but what I mean was that it would probably in the best interest of everyone to make it easier for players by reducing the potential sacrifices they have to make instead of the opposite. And "should not commit to WCS" when WCS is the prime event of the foreign scene sounds to me like a nicer way of de facto banning them. But well, since that's not going to change anything that's a pointless argument anyway.
I also think it's a pointless argument, since the pros aren't even complaining. They will just go and compete, doesn't matter where they have to fly or if they have to skip school for a few days, since, well, they are pros. Once a player drops out we can continue our discussion and then I will argue, that that player should never have comitted to WCS Premier if he can't schedule around it.
On January 27 2015 02:22 OtherWorld wrote: [quote] The only acceptable reason is visa issue? Assuming the groups are being played on weekdays, what about a part-time player having to study, who will potentialy miss several days if he doesn't want to be affected by jetlag? (I don't know if this is a real issue or not, but it seems to me it might be)
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
Yes, it disgust me that they dont play 28 hours a day
Nah I got that you were joking, but my point still stands for Musicus d:
But I said nothing that would merit your answer. I'm not saying you can't go to school or study while competing in Starcraft. I'm saying that you have to prioritize WCS Premiere and schedule around it. If you can not do that, just don't play WCS. Saying "I'm not coming to the offline part, because the flight is too long and I have to study" is not ok imo. If Heromarine or any of the players you mentioned had qualifed, I'm sure they would've taken a few days of school/university to compete if necessary or postponed any exams, so it's completely fine. Polt is an excellent example of a being a pro, while pursuing an education.
Edit: I also said nothing about banning anyone, I think you really meant GumBa, not getting he was joking. Which he was of course not, since he is German.
Hmm but what I mean was that it would probably in the best interest of everyone to make it easier for players by reducing the potential sacrifices they have to make instead of the opposite. And "should not commit to WCS" when WCS is the prime event of the foreign scene sounds to me like a nicer way of de facto banning them. But well, since that's not going to change anything that's a pointless argument anyway.
I also think it's a pointless argument, since the pros aren't even complaining. They will just go and compete, doesn't matter where they have to fly or if they have to skip school for a few days, since, well, they are pros. Once a player drops out we can continue our discussion and then I will argue, that that player should never have comitted to WCS Premier if he can't schedule around it.
I think you should not commit to WCS if work or school could get in the way, you have to be able to schedule around WCS. This is Premiere, this is for Pros. Well if you are in the hospital you can't play, so of course there are other reasons. My statement was too extreme. I hate extreme statements actually .
You weren't extreme enough. All players that aren't willing to commit every fibre of their being should be banned and hunted down like the filthy casuals they are.
So we should ban Welmu, one of the if not the best foreign Protoss, Nerchio, FireCake, HeRoMaRinE, Reynor, Arium, etc (these are just the ones on top of my head, no doubt there are more) and we should have banned VortiX or Polt back in their time. Yeah, sounds legit.
Yes, it disgust me that they dont play 28 hours a day
Nah I got that you were joking, but my point still stands for Musicus d:
But I said nothing that would merit your answer. I'm not saying you can't go to school or study while competing in Starcraft. I'm saying that you have to prioritize WCS Premiere and schedule around it. If you can not do that, just don't play WCS. Saying "I'm not coming to the offline part, because the flight is too long and I have to study" is not ok imo. If Heromarine or any of the players you mentioned had qualifed, I'm sure they would've taken a few days of school/university to compete if necessary or postponed any exams, so it's completely fine. Polt is an excellent example of a being a pro, while pursuing an education.
Edit: I also said nothing about banning anyone, I think you really meant GumBa, not getting he was joking. Which he was of course not, since he is German.
Hmm but what I mean was that it would probably in the best interest of everyone to make it easier for players by reducing the potential sacrifices they have to make instead of the opposite. And "should not commit to WCS" when WCS is the prime event of the foreign scene sounds to me like a nicer way of de facto banning them. But well, since that's not going to change anything that's a pointless argument anyway.
I also think it's a pointless argument, since the pros aren't even complaining. They will just go and compete, doesn't matter where they have to fly or if they have to skip school for a few days, since, well, they are pros. Once a player drops out we can continue our discussion and then I will argue, that that player should never have comitted to WCS Premier if he can't schedule around it.
lol this whole college/university/school debate is funny as fuck!
If you cant take a week off to go play, then u basicly cant even play starcraft either so, lulz, the discussion is invalid. A week off is NOTHING, hell, they can study before and after the matches. What if u got sick for a week? If that means u would fail whatever ur studying, trust me, ur not fit for school. Sigh, sometimes..
On January 27 2015 04:02 ZeRoX_TV wrote: They are used to travel often + this is, for me at least, the funniest WCS ever since you do not have chance often to see how are NA pros doing vs certain EU pros. Every tournament is pretty much same, but for me, matchups like Targa vs MajOr, uThermal or Bunny vs Astrea or Snute vs Kane are not something you can see everyday, especially on big stage like this. So, this WCS is something I am most looking forward to for last couple of years, so excited. Personally, I am sick of watching same people dominating NA and EU WCS like San, MC, MMA, always same people. This way is so much better and if you like Koreans you can go and watch GSL/SSL. I would prefer more if this Koreans were not able to participate so we could have full NA/EU WCS but that's other subject.
I like to see the best plays possible. Without the koreans the skillrate of the training condition of all non teamhouse members in EU dropped due to the ladderskill drop. I really hyped the strongest plays of the koreans and korean vs foreigner was allways about "can it happen" (and when it happend, it was like has style and all remembered it for quite some time). And also this time with the challanger: Can Marinelord do it? Can Masa bring it on point?
so WCS is now a handing out seasonal checks to Polt, ForGG and Hydra? The region locking is great and all, but if only even filtered out the koreans despite residency. Now we always have to expect the same 3 or 4 koreans in ro 8 or ro4.
On January 27 2015 05:46 movac wrote: so WCS is now a handing out seasonal checks to Polt, ForGG and Hydra? The region locking is great and all, but if only even filtered out the koreans despite residency. Now we always have to expect the same 3 or 4 koreans in ro 8 or ro4.
Polt, forgg and hydra all decided to commit their lives to USA/Europe, why shouldnt they be allowed to play in wcs? They live there, give money to US/Europe economy, pay their taxes.
On January 27 2015 05:46 movac wrote: so WCS is now a handing out seasonal checks to Polt, ForGG and Hydra? The region locking is great and all, but if only even filtered out the koreans despite residency. Now we always have to expect the same 3 or 4 koreans in ro 8 or ro4.
Polt, forgg and hydra all decided to commit their lives to USA/Europe, why shouldnt they be allowed to play in wcs? They live there, give money to US/Europe economy, pay their taxes.
On January 27 2015 05:46 movac wrote: so WCS is now a handing out seasonal checks to Polt, ForGG and Hydra? The region locking is great and all, but if only even filtered out the koreans despite residency. Now we always have to expect the same 3 or 4 koreans in ro 8 or ro4.
Polt, forgg and hydra all decided to commit their lives to USA/Europe, why shouldnt they be allowed to play in wcs? They live there, give money to US/Europe economy, pay their taxes.
It would literally be rascist to exclude them at this point just because of their nationality.
I'm not saying to exclude them based on nationality. I'm just saying they're at a drastically higher skill compared to the others, there's zero suspense in terms of who will make the playoff brackets. notice that I didn't include violet in that comment since he seems more beatable at this point compared to Polt, forGG and Hydra.
On January 27 2015 06:00 movac wrote: I'm not saying to exclude them based on nationality. I'm just saying they're at a drastically higher skill compared to the others, there's zero suspense in terms of who will make the playoff brackets. notice that I didn't include violet in that comment since he seems more beatable at this point compared to Polt, forGG and Hydra.
That's a stupid reason. Sorry you can't compete even though you fufill all the requirments cause you are too good and we think that's unfair. Also some of the top foreigners definetly have a chance of beating the koreans participating
On January 27 2015 04:03 ossavi09 wrote: Did you guys notice that 3 Players from the upper side of the bracket of EU's lastchance-qual made it into premier, while none of the players from the other bracketside made it? It's so funny as so many ppl on TL/Reddit/Twitter were complaining about the too strong lower side of the bracket =P
people tend to overrate names instead of looking who beat who in the 6 qualifiers.
On January 27 2015 06:00 movac wrote: I'm not saying to exclude them based on nationality. I'm just saying they're at a drastically higher skill compared to the others, there's zero suspense in terms of who will make the playoff brackets. notice that I didn't include violet in that comment since he seems more beatable at this point compared to Polt, forGG and Hydra.
forgg has been in Europe for YEARS, there is no more Korean ladder reason for his better play than others. Maybe those three just practice more and thus are better than foreigners?
What I totally disliked were things Taeja/JD did last year, only staying in the USA for WCS matches, but polt, forgg and hydra spend weeks and months here. Let them play, they sacrificed a safe home in Korea and actually took the courage to come here alone. I have a high respect for them. Moving home on your own is no small feat.
Damn, some of the opinions in this thread... People should be banned from competition because they're too good? I'd like to see someone try that on the world cup. "Well Germany and Brazil can't play, that's unfair for the rest of the world." The competition should be scheduled around the demands of semi-pros? They're still pro's. The format was known up front. If the schedule is going to be a problem for someone, then he shouldn't have committed to the tournament. That's the "pro" part of being a pro-gamer. Professional athletes that still need to hold jobs to be able to make due or are still studying travel to compete all the time.
Anyway, I'm SO looking forward to this. Much more exciting and interesting than the separate tournaments for EU and US.
Wait, how was it actually splitted, I just watched the VOD of the group drawing, but if I heard right, the 4 boxes all represented different region, so why is Sereal in Sea/SouthAmerica box? Are the some of the EU players randomly divided into the other boxes since they have more players?
My Groups wouldve looked like this if i was God of Starcraft, based on my personal seeding + making sure every race plays in every group 1 vs 4 | 2 vs 3
On January 27 2015 06:36 Thax wrote: Damn, some of the opinions in this thread... People should be banned from competition because they're too good? I'd like to see someone try that on the world cup. "Well Germany and Brazil can't play, that's unfair for the rest of the world." The competition should be scheduled around the demands of semi-pros? They're still pro's. The format was known up front. If the schedule is going to be a problem for someone, then he shouldn't have committed to the tournament. That's the "pro" part of being a pro-gamer. Professional athletes that still need to hold jobs to be able to make due or are still studying travel to compete all the time.
Anyway, I'm SO looking forward to this. Much more exciting and interesting than the separate tournaments for EU and US.
This idea that "pros must deliver X, because they are pros" is incredibly ignorant of the real state of the scene. Please stop pretending that we are drowning in money and that the foreign SC2 easily supports dozens of people as full-time pros, because that just does not happen. These people have to something else in their lives besides SC2, if they want to eat and live somewhere or have any future. Who do you think you are to demand that people give up everything for you to watch it?
If you really wish to see only those who are 100% commited to SC2 and close the competition for anyone else, there is a very easy answer how to hold Ro32: not at all, because there won't be 32 players to compete.
On January 27 2015 06:36 Thax wrote: Damn, some of the opinions in this thread... People should be banned from competition because they're too good? I'd like to see someone try that on the world cup. "Well Germany and Brazil can't play, that's unfair for the rest of the world." The competition should be scheduled around the demands of semi-pros? They're still pro's. The format was known up front. If the schedule is going to be a problem for someone, then he shouldn't have committed to the tournament. That's the "pro" part of being a pro-gamer. Professional athletes that still need to hold jobs to be able to make due or are still studying travel to compete all the time.
Anyway, I'm SO looking forward to this. Much more exciting and interesting than the separate tournaments for EU and US.
~80% of all best eu players are full time student. It is much better for semi-pros if they dont have 8h+ per flight-time. If you look closer in the past 4 yrs, you will notice that EU players dont travel outside EU a lot. Many did forfeit though free travel+accomodation. I remember MLG 2012. MLG payed all travel + accommodation costs. Only EU "Nonames" showed interest.
The Problem is, the younger players get zero support (here in Germany). For example Heromarine. If he could go full time, I am shure he could pull of very strong games and gaining high in tournaments. The Best the system for him does is that he gets 2 free school days when he traveled to a tournament. On the other hand, my school cooperated with borussia Moenchengladbach, one of the bigger teams in the german Bundesliga (atm ranked 4th ). We had arround 2-4 people from their U17, U19 and later U21 and ProTeam in our class. These guys had got weeks freed from school where they traveled with the DFB to U17 or U19 Worldcups/Eurocups and other Cups, they gained extreme support, never had to go to school in the afternoon, the school send some teachers to their Training Area so they teach the school stuff when they have time and so on. One of these guys has now the highest tier of graduation you can have in Germany while playing for Borussia Mönchengladbach in the starting formation in the Europa League and the Bundesliga and another of these guys for the Bundesligateam Mainz 05.
And now you say, wooow Football is so much bigger then Esport, how can you compare dat? In Germany athlets of all kind of sports get these kinds of support? You are good at running? (never good enough to compete with Bolt and Co ) but good to competete in Europe? Here you get sportsstipendia, money, free time from stupid life things and we fly you where you have to compete! You are good in swimming? The same. Alot of sport athlets nobody knows in Germany get support by the gouvernment from a time they are 14-16 years old. They can go full pro from early time, Esport-Athlets cant do it. Or Sebastia Vettel: He could skipp and dipp school for time to time to race through europes open wheel series and the world cup of cart sport and he could gain is driver licence one year earlier then anybody else in Germany.
Europeen Pros and Talents get zero support for outside. And you cant say "skip school, go full pro". Either you lose the chance to do something after your Protime, because you miss out importatend graduation our/and you do not earn enough. Most Proteams pay arround 500$ per month or less. Yeah you got free sleeping and free food and some Tournamentmoney (from which a team likes to take a piece) but still you dont earn enough to have time after your pro time to do a smooth transition back to non pro life. The once who can life from StarCraft here in the West are either full developed pros like Snute or Bunny with a very strong team behind em or Streames like ProTech, Winter and so on. But Streming is bad training and doesnt help you alot to improve, only to gain a income for your life So you stream to earn enough for your life but waste time in not improving. Players like Life are unthinkable here, he won his first stuff with 17 or 16. In this age, you just CANT go full Pro here in Germany. And then you are 20 or older, you try to be full pro and just lost 4 years of competitve time being Semipro not increasing your skill like you should.
People (and a League like WCS) cant just up and say "do the Pro in SemiPro" and get here for a week and another week in 1 month again for the Round of 16 when the players are forced to life as a SemiPro because pure Pros and upcoming once get zero support from outside of the Esport world.
On January 27 2015 07:25 RHoudini wrote: Tough draw for Happy, hitting 2 of the 4 Koreans... sucks for him.
Both ForGG and Polt have very good TvT too.
Sucks to see one of the best foreign Terrans out in the first round like that.
Honestly I really like Happy and he has had good performances in WCS in the past but recently his games were disappointing to watch. I think he has the skill to make it out of this group it's just a question if he can unlock it. I want to see the happy that makes it out of a group like this rather than the happy that gets through an easier group and falls short later.
On January 27 2015 04:02 ZeRoX_TV wrote: They are used to travel often + this is, for me at least, the funniest WCS ever since you do not have chance often to see how are NA pros doing vs certain EU pros. Every tournament is pretty much same, but for me, matchups like Targa vs MajOr, uThermal or Bunny vs Astrea or Snute vs Kane are not something you can see everyday, especially on big stage like this. So, this WCS is something I am most looking forward to for last couple of years, so excited. Personally, I am sick of watching same people dominating NA and EU WCS like San, MC, MMA, always same people. This way is so much better and if you like Koreans you can go and watch GSL/SSL. I would prefer more if this Koreans were not able to participate so we could have full NA/EU WCS but that's other subject.
I like to see the best plays possible. Without the koreans the skillrate of the training condition of all non teamhouse members in EU dropped due to the ladderskill drop. I really hyped the strongest plays of the koreans and korean vs foreigner was allways about "can it happen" (and when it happend, it was like has style and all remembered it for quite some time). And also this time with the challanger: Can Marinelord do it? Can Masa bring it on point?
Well best plays are definately in Korean WCS so you can watch it there. I was talking about people who would rather see NA and EU players in action, something you couldnt really see much last few months. I would rather see MarineLord vs Masa, duking it out for glory, then watching Stardust vs MC 20th time in a row in European WCS, it became boring and I believe there is more people like me. I have nothing against Korean players, there are far the best in the world, but sometimes I have feeling that there is only 30ish players on this planet winning everything. This is kinda fresh and I was really demotivated watching TaeJa or MMA crushing through EU or NA WCS for a while. Also, this way many new players can poput, some established can win something and get motivated to play better in other tournaments vs Koreans. If we stayed on same boat, answer on your question "can it happen?" would ne "No, it can't". I hope this will motivate old and new forces to make NA and EU server at least comparable to KR and show better fight on major tournaments, no one likes to get crushed in pretty much only big tournament and "appear offline" for a year when doesent qualify for WCS because there are some guys picking up their spots.
On January 27 2015 08:51 KingofdaHipHop wrote: Astrea just said that they're redrawing the groups tomorrow on Arium's stream. Damn.
Yeah I heard that too on twitter already and I thought they had to do it anyway, the miniute Naniwa appeared out of the AM bowl . Glad that they are doing it right and don't just roll with it, when they fucked up.
On January 27 2015 04:02 ZeRoX_TV wrote: They are used to travel often + this is, for me at least, the funniest WCS ever since you do not have chance often to see how are NA pros doing vs certain EU pros. Every tournament is pretty much same, but for me, matchups like Targa vs MajOr, uThermal or Bunny vs Astrea or Snute vs Kane are not something you can see everyday, especially on big stage like this. So, this WCS is something I am most looking forward to for last couple of years, so excited. Personally, I am sick of watching same people dominating NA and EU WCS like San, MC, MMA, always same people. This way is so much better and if you like Koreans you can go and watch GSL/SSL. I would prefer more if this Koreans were not able to participate so we could have full NA/EU WCS but that's other subject.
I like to see the best plays possible. Without the koreans the skillrate of the training condition of all non teamhouse members in EU dropped due to the ladderskill drop. I really hyped the strongest plays of the koreans and korean vs foreigner was allways about "can it happen" (and when it happend, it was like has style and all remembered it for quite some time). And also this time with the challanger: Can Marinelord do it? Can Masa bring it on point?
Well best plays are definately in Korean WCS so you can watch it there. I was talking about people who would rather see NA and EU players in action, something you couldnt really see much last few months. I would rather see MarineLord vs Masa, duking it out for glory, then watching Stardust vs MC 20th time in a row in European WCS, it became boring and I believe there is more people like me. I have nothing against Korean players, there are far the best in the world, but sometimes I have feeling that there is only 30ish players on this planet winning everything. This is kinda fresh and I was really demotivated watching TaeJa or MMA crushing through EU or NA WCS for a while. Also, this way many new players can poput, some established can win something and get motivated to play better in other tournaments vs Koreans. If we stayed on same boat, answer on your question "can it happen?" would ne "No, it can't". I hope this will motivate old and new forces to make NA and EU server at least comparable to KR and show better fight on major tournaments, no one likes to get crushed in pretty much only big tournament and "appear offline" for a year when doesent qualify for WCS because there are some guys picking up their spots.
We will still see this foreigner getting crushed by "the used dudes". Every Dreamhack, HSC and IEM will show it to us. And with a worse training in Europe (All Americans play on Kr Server because for real, NA server... ) due to the lack of top lvl players from the otherside of the world, we might see more games like Marinelord vs Masa, but then this scene develops again more and more into a "these super koreans there" and a "these foreigners here" without a connection but they will once a year meet at Blizzcon to get slaughterd and once in a while at a dreamhack or a IEM. And soon after you threw out the koreans because they are koreans of WCS, someone will shout "dont watch dreamhack, the same koreans destroy the foreign hope again" and the scene will split more and more.
It is easy for you to say "watch this korean stuff at 11 am." (when I work and cant watch it) but I really loved to get in contact with these players here at the ESL Studio, at TaKes place and so on. The Best players did not isolate anymore, they came to us, their fans, they played here, they moved their entire life here (talking about player who moved, like MC, Yoda, First, Sacsri, Jakji, Stardust, Patience and Golden ) and forced the europeens to meet them on the ladder an skill up. All they got are annoyed viewers like you and a asskick by WCS. When you knew how much Stardust and MC hated each other, you would maybe different about it.
And where shall players like Snute or Bunny, who meet Koreans on IEM and Dreamhacks often, train for these koreans? How shall they train games like the wonderfull sets Snute played against herO at IEM? Either move to korea (for a time) or skill down.
Thats what I dont like. Yes, the new WCS supports the local players more in terms of money. But it is again a step back into a time where the world of starcraft was divided in these koreans and these foreigners and the skill gap becomes again higher and higher. Just in a time where thought it would close and close. We are back in a System like LoL, where US and Europeen cheer for their teams just to see how they get roflstompt each year at the worlds by the KESPA boys.
I dont want to see Europeens roflstomped by koreans, I want to see them compete. And thats why I hate it that SC II pros get so less support by the society here, by the state and now they are back again a step more isolated from korea. But you dont improve when you dont messure yourself with the top. You dont improve by fighting Masa and Marinelord on ladder all day, you improve by fighting MMA, MC, Yoda or Golden.
You cant say to player A "you can choose where you play (and your whole group", to player B "you play there" and to player C "you play TURN DOWN FOR WHAAAT" And then getting an all Z group...
Astrea said ESL is going to redraw, NaNi was in the NA bowl, there is the WCS CIS thing and some players already decided to play in Germany or in the US whereas other players did not receive any mail about the location for the RO32.
On January 27 2015 09:20 Aeromi wrote: Astrea said ESL is going to redraw, NaNi was in the NA bowl, there is the WCS CIS thing and some players already decided to play in Germany or in the US whereas other players did not receive any mail about the location for the RO32.
I'm surprised at how much they managed to screw the group drawing :D
On January 27 2015 09:20 Aeromi wrote: Astrea said ESL is going to redraw, NaNi was in the NA bowl, there is the WCS CIS thing and some players already decided to play in Germany or in the US whereas other players did not receive any mail about the location for the RO32.
I'm surprised at how much they managed to screw the group drawing :D
On January 27 2015 09:43 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I don't see how the groups are any more random whether nani was in the na bowl or not. It really shouldn't matter.
Because they drew Targa before they put Naniwa back into the EU bowl. So they could've drawn Naniwa instead of Targa if it was done right. And from there everything changes.
On January 27 2015 09:43 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I don't see how the groups are any more random whether nani was in the na bowl or not. It really shouldn't matter.
Because they drew Targa before they put Naniwa back into the EU bowl. So they could've drawn Naniwa instead of Targa if it was done right. And from there everything changes.
But it could have just as easily gone the way it did even if the bowls were right. It's still just as random.
On January 27 2015 09:43 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I don't see how the groups are any more random whether nani was in the na bowl or not. It really shouldn't matter.
Because they drew Targa before they put Naniwa back into the EU bowl. So they could've drawn Naniwa instead of Targa if it was done right. And from there everything changes.
But it could have just as easily gone the way it did even if the bowls were right. It's still just as random.
It guarantees that Naniwa is not in group 1. Sure it would still be random afterwards, but it's still not correct.
On January 27 2015 09:43 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I don't see how the groups are any more random whether nani was in the na bowl or not. It really shouldn't matter.
Because they drew Targa before they put Naniwa back into the EU bowl. So they could've drawn Naniwa instead of Targa if it was done right. And from there everything changes.
But it could have just as easily gone the way it did even if the bowls were right. It's still just as random.
Europeans have a thing about rigged draws, it's in their blood
On January 27 2015 05:46 movac wrote: so WCS is now a handing out seasonal checks to Polt, ForGG and Hydra? The region locking is great and all, but if only even filtered out the koreans despite residency. Now we always have to expect the same 3 or 4 koreans in ro 8 or ro4.
Polt, forgg and hydra all decided to commit their lives to USA/Europe, why shouldnt they be allowed to play in wcs? They live there, give money to US/Europe economy, pay their taxes.
It would literally be rascist to exclude them at this point just because of their nationality.
if they went by citizenship or however the Olympics does it, then would it not racism though?
On January 27 2015 05:46 movac wrote: so WCS is now a handing out seasonal checks to Polt, ForGG and Hydra? The region locking is great and all, but if only even filtered out the koreans despite residency. Now we always have to expect the same 3 or 4 koreans in ro 8 or ro4.
Polt, forgg and hydra all decided to commit their lives to USA/Europe, why shouldnt they be allowed to play in wcs? They live there, give money to US/Europe economy, pay their taxes.
It would literally be rascist to exclude them at this point just because of their nationality.
if they went by citizenship or however the Olympics does it, then would it not racism though?
Hydra making it into the ro8 is a not guaranteed, neither is violet. Forgg should definetly make it, polt more likely than the other 2, hydra has a decent shot violet is a maybe.
On January 27 2015 05:46 movac wrote: so WCS is now a handing out seasonal checks to Polt, ForGG and Hydra? The region locking is great and all, but if only even filtered out the koreans despite residency. Now we always have to expect the same 3 or 4 koreans in ro 8 or ro4.
Polt, forgg and hydra all decided to commit their lives to USA/Europe, why shouldnt they be allowed to play in wcs? They live there, give money to US/Europe economy, pay their taxes.
It would literally be rascist to exclude them at this point just because of their nationality.
if they went by citizenship or however the Olympics does it, then would it not racism though?
No rule book, no schedule, and what seems like an incredibly hasty group drawing. Compared to last year, WCS seems pretty awful in terms of preparation.
Did someone kind of just forget that WCS was going to be happening?
On January 27 2015 11:12 Rehio wrote: Gosh, this season of WCS seems... unprepared.
No rule book, no schedule, and what seems like an incredibly hasty group drawing. Compared to last year, WCS seems pretty awful in terms of preparation.
Did someone kind of just forget that WCS was going to be happening?
agreed, I also find it weird that there's no more partner tournaments announced yet after IEM Taipei
On January 27 2015 11:12 Rehio wrote: Gosh, this season of WCS seems... unprepared.
No rule book, no schedule, and what seems like an incredibly hasty group drawing. Compared to last year, WCS seems pretty awful in terms of preparation.
Did someone kind of just forget that WCS was going to be happening?
agreed, I also find it weird that there's no more partner tournaments announced yet after IEM Taipei
DH France is likely to be a WCS event, but it is just in may
On January 27 2015 03:21 magicallypuzzled wrote: yeah I don't get it either what exactly was wrong with the way the groups were drawn?
It offenses that some players know where they gonna play and others do not know it. And if you concider that Germany (4 of 8 Visa Groups ) and USA (the other 4) have sometimes strange visa problems when it comes to esport-athlets form RoC and PRC, we hope that WCS does not throw this up. And yeah a pure ZvZ Group... but that is biased.
This whole season 1 is a serious mess: Extremly late mappool that GSL plays on its own and we still now know (and possibly the players too) on what maps they play the premiere. Playdates announced really late while you know every GSL Playday, WCS tells you some dates 5-7 days before they go. Players from LA didnt know where to attend for the LA Qualifier for long time Now some players are allowed to choose where to play (PIG), others have been told where they play (Targa) and other just sit in the blue and guess what? Dont know if they need a visa and if they have to play next week in some land where they dont get one in time.
When will they redraw? I just hope Snute won't get a harder group (well tbh between the Naniwa error, the general incomprehension over the CIS thing and the twitter discussions with TargA/PiG it is pretty normal that they redraw it).
They are redrawing because they couldn't let Firecake with 3 protosses , so much SH turtle would have killed SC2 for good. It was a courageous decision !
Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
Well, MaNa on the CN/SEA/CIS bowl is wrong too.
Well thats becauseEU has more players than other regions, if u can see some of the EU players were split in to sea/southAmerica while others to China/Taiwan. Like Serral,uThermal, Firecake, Morrow were in Sea/SouthAmerica bowl, while Mana,Happy, were in China/Taiwan bowl.
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
He was put into EU bowl after the group 1 EU player had already been drawn, that means Naniwa had 0% chance of getting in group 1, which is not fair. There are also quite a few other issues which they probably will not resolve:
-names of players not being in something sealed (envelope etc.), sure nathanias sort of looked away but that's still amateurish -Naniwa's Card having a troll face on the backside so distinguishable from the others (and yet it was in false bowl, sup). -unclear criterion for the 4 EU players in the SEA/Latin America/EU2 group. Maybe it was randomly drawn that would be fine but it looks like it is based on WCS Points with exceptions made for Targa and Naniwa who got into EU1. Clarification from the admins how it was selected would be fine -arbitrarily creating a CIS region which had no qualifiers (what will they do next seaons when it isn't 2* CIS players who qualify)
*actually just Happy is from CIS, Poland (Mana) is no part of it.
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
Well, MaNa on the CN/SEA/CIS bowl is wrong too.
Well thats becauseEU has more players than other regions, if u can see some of the EU players were split in to sea/southAmerica while others to China/Taiwan. Like Serral,uThermal, Firecake, Morrow were in Sea/SouthAmerica bowl, while Mana,Happy, were in China/Taiwan bowl.
Putting EU players in different bowls is alright but it should be not based on some arbitrary criterion like "let us introduce a CIS region which had not qualifiers and is inconsistent with everything and won't work next season" but on merit (WCS points, time of qualification etc.) or random.
ESL admins are so incompetent. More than not broadcasting draws, everybody finds the different WCS draws very strange.
Now they are so bad that they made mistake and want to redraw it ! HA HA SO PRO !
Please consider that hazard is important in a draw (even if we don't know how your draws are made), please consider the hazard as a key in the main SC2 competition and assume. Don't draw again and let the players play.
Can you imagine FIFA redraw a World Cup ? No. Be professionnal now.
Redrawing is preventing this competition from the fair hazard and will make all the players mad about the new draw...
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
Well, MaNa on the CN/SEA/CIS bowl is wrong too.
Well thats becauseEU has more players than other regions, if u can see some of the EU players were split in to sea/southAmerica while others to China/Taiwan. Like Serral,uThermal, Firecake, Morrow were in Sea/SouthAmerica bowl, while Mana,Happy, were in China/Taiwan bowl.
Putting EU players in different bowls is alright but it should be not based on some arbitrary criterion like "let us introduce a CIS region which had not qualifiers and is inconsistent with everything and won't work next season" but on merit (WCS points, time of qualification etc.) or random.
Well maybe that CIS fucked it up, but it still its no reason to redraw, I mean the players already maybe started to practice. Would be 2 days of waste. And its really unprofessional.
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
Well, MaNa on the CN/SEA/CIS bowl is wrong too.
Well thats becauseEU has more players than other regions, if u can see some of the EU players were split in to sea/southAmerica while others to China/Taiwan. Like Serral,uThermal, Firecake, Morrow were in Sea/SouthAmerica bowl, while Mana,Happy, were in China/Taiwan bowl.
Putting EU players in different bowls is alright but it should be not based on some arbitrary criterion like "let us introduce a CIS region which had not qualifiers and is inconsistent with everything and won't work next season" but on merit (WCS points, time of qualification etc.) or random.
Well maybe that CIS fucked it up, but it still its no reason to redraw, I mean the players already maybe started to practice. Would be 2 days of waste. And its really unprofessional.
Making a mistake and not correcting it is unprofessional, also you totally ignored the Naniwa issue. Ignoring all other problems aside from Naniwa in wrong bowl, it would be enough to redraw the EU1 players as the other bowls were not affected by it.
Wow, messing up the drawing of the groups. I wish they were a little bit more professional. Announcing this stuff over twitter isn't exactly professionalism either. Who is Aeromi and how is he qualified to make such an official statement? I am a bit disappointed. And apparently the drawing was also not done with indistinguishable player representations in the bowl.
On January 27 2015 18:45 Stabillo wrote: ESL admins are so incompetent. More than not broadcasting draws, everybody finds the different WCS draws very strange.
Now they are so bad that they made mistake and want to redraw it ! HA HA SO PRO !
Please consider that hazard is important in a draw (even if we don't know how your draws are made), please consider the hazard as a key in the main SC2 competition and assume. Don't draw again and let the players play.
Can you imagine FIFA redraw a World Cup ? No. Be professionnal now.
Redrawing is preventing this competition from the fair hazard and will make all the players mad about the new draw...
I agree, the whole thing is really unprofessional.
Btw "hasard" is "luck" or "chance" in English, "hazard" has a different meaning
On January 27 2015 18:45 Stabillo wrote: ESL admins are so incompetent. More than not broadcasting draws, everybody finds the different WCS draws very strange.
Now they are so bad that they made mistake and want to redraw it ! HA HA SO PRO !
Please consider that hazard is important in a draw (even if we don't know how your draws are made), please consider the hazard as a key in the main SC2 competition and assume. Don't draw again and let the players play.
Can you imagine FIFA redraw a World Cup ? No. Be professionnal now.
Redrawing is preventing this competition from the fair hazard and will make all the players mad about the new draw...
Isn't redrawing pretty standard and professional when the drawing is flawed and has to be modified post-drawing, meaning it does not totally respect the luck/randomness factor?
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
Well, MaNa on the CN/SEA/CIS bowl is wrong too.
Well thats becauseEU has more players than other regions, if u can see some of the EU players were split in to sea/southAmerica while others to China/Taiwan. Like Serral,uThermal, Firecake, Morrow were in Sea/SouthAmerica bowl, while Mana,Happy, were in China/Taiwan bowl.
Putting EU players in different bowls is alright but it should be not based on some arbitrary criterion like "let us introduce a CIS region which had not qualifiers and is inconsistent with everything and won't work next season" but on merit (WCS points, time of qualification etc.) or random.
Well maybe that CIS fucked it up, but it still its no reason to redraw, I mean the players already maybe started to practice. Would be 2 days of waste. And its really unprofessional.
Making a mistake and not correcting it is unprofessional, also you totally ignored the Naniwa issue. Ignoring all other problems aside from Naniwa in wrong bowl, it would be enough to redraw the EU1 players as the other bowls were not affected by it.
I am not ignoring Naniwas bowl. I mean if i watched it right, he was in NA bowl, and then they put him in EU bowl after that first group draw right? So I see there no problem, since he was EU bowl after all. Or is there happened something more?
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
Well, MaNa on the CN/SEA/CIS bowl is wrong too.
Well thats becauseEU has more players than other regions, if u can see some of the EU players were split in to sea/southAmerica while others to China/Taiwan. Like Serral,uThermal, Firecake, Morrow were in Sea/SouthAmerica bowl, while Mana,Happy, were in China/Taiwan bowl.
Putting EU players in different bowls is alright but it should be not based on some arbitrary criterion like "let us introduce a CIS region which had not qualifiers and is inconsistent with everything and won't work next season" but on merit (WCS points, time of qualification etc.) or random.
Well maybe that CIS fucked it up, but it still its no reason to redraw, I mean the players already maybe started to practice. Would be 2 days of waste. And its really unprofessional.
Making a mistake and not correcting it is unprofessional, also you totally ignored the Naniwa issue. Ignoring all other problems aside from Naniwa in wrong bowl, it would be enough to redraw the EU1 players as the other bowls were not affected by it.
I am not ignoring Naniwas bowl. I mean if i watched it right, he was in NA bowl, and then they put him in EU bowl after that first group draw right? So I see there no problem, since he was EU bowl after all. Or is there happened something more?
He could have been drawn in Group A. That may seem like a small thing but it's enough to affect the legitimacy of the draw. Hence why they redraw it.
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
Well, MaNa on the CN/SEA/CIS bowl is wrong too.
Well thats becauseEU has more players than other regions, if u can see some of the EU players were split in to sea/southAmerica while others to China/Taiwan. Like Serral,uThermal, Firecake, Morrow were in Sea/SouthAmerica bowl, while Mana,Happy, were in China/Taiwan bowl.
Putting EU players in different bowls is alright but it should be not based on some arbitrary criterion like "let us introduce a CIS region which had not qualifiers and is inconsistent with everything and won't work next season" but on merit (WCS points, time of qualification etc.) or random.
Is there a key or a rule, which determines what players from EU will be placed in SEA/SA or China/Taiwan basket?
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
Well, MaNa on the CN/SEA/CIS bowl is wrong too.
Well thats becauseEU has more players than other regions, if u can see some of the EU players were split in to sea/southAmerica while others to China/Taiwan. Like Serral,uThermal, Firecake, Morrow were in Sea/SouthAmerica bowl, while Mana,Happy, were in China/Taiwan bowl.
Putting EU players in different bowls is alright but it should be not based on some arbitrary criterion like "let us introduce a CIS region which had not qualifiers and is inconsistent with everything and won't work next season" but on merit (WCS points, time of qualification etc.) or random.
Is there a key or a rule, which determines what players from EU will be placed in SEA/SA or China/Taiwan basket?
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
Well, MaNa on the CN/SEA/CIS bowl is wrong too.
Well thats becauseEU has more players than other regions, if u can see some of the EU players were split in to sea/southAmerica while others to China/Taiwan. Like Serral,uThermal, Firecake, Morrow were in Sea/SouthAmerica bowl, while Mana,Happy, were in China/Taiwan bowl.
Putting EU players in different bowls is alright but it should be not based on some arbitrary criterion like "let us introduce a CIS region which had not qualifiers and is inconsistent with everything and won't work next season" but on merit (WCS points, time of qualification etc.) or random.
Is there a key or a rule, which determines what players from EU will be placed in SEA/SA or China/Taiwan basket?
for the China/Taiwan basket they went with the "Commenwealth of Independent States Region" (countries of former sowjetunion pretty much) "rule" and put players (Happy/Mana) from that part of the EU region in it. (Making a mistake with Mana as Poland is not in the CIS).
For the SEA/SA basket. It looks like WCS points was a factor but not the only one. The 4 players in that bowl are 4 of the 6 lowest when it comes to WCS points. (Only Targa and Naniwa having less than some of them). So maybe they went "Let's do WCS points to seed that" and then didn't want Targa and Naniwa in it and adjusted. There is also the chance it was done random but given the distribution I have my doubts.
On January 27 2015 18:23 TsogiMaster wrote: Aeromi told that right? If i see his Tweets, he said that Nani was in NA bowl, thats why its going to redraw. But they took it out and put it back to EU. So for there is no need for redraw. Or did I miss something
Well, MaNa on the CN/SEA/CIS bowl is wrong too.
Well thats becauseEU has more players than other regions, if u can see some of the EU players were split in to sea/southAmerica while others to China/Taiwan. Like Serral,uThermal, Firecake, Morrow were in Sea/SouthAmerica bowl, while Mana,Happy, were in China/Taiwan bowl.
Putting EU players in different bowls is alright but it should be not based on some arbitrary criterion like "let us introduce a CIS region which had not qualifiers and is inconsistent with everything and won't work next season" but on merit (WCS points, time of qualification etc.) or random.
Is there a key or a rule, which determines what players from EU will be placed in SEA/SA or China/Taiwan basket?
for the China/Taiwan basket they went with the "Commenwealth of Independent States Region" (countries of former sowjetunion pretty much) "rule" and put players (Happy/Mana) from that part of the EU region in it. (Making a mistake with Mana as Poland is not in the CIS).
For the SEA/SA basket. It looks like WCS points was a factor but not the only one. The 4 players in that bowl are 4 of the 6 lowest when it comes to WCS points. (Only Targa and Naniwa having less than some of them). So maybe they went "Let's do WCS points to seed that" and then didn't want Targa and Naniwa in it and adjusted. There is also the chance it was done random but given the distribution I have my doubts.
On January 27 2015 11:12 Rehio wrote: Gosh, this season of WCS seems... unprepared.
No rule book, no schedule, and what seems like an incredibly hasty group drawing. Compared to last year, WCS seems pretty awful in terms of preparation.
Did someone kind of just forget that WCS was going to be happening?
This so much... it feels so random, like they are just winging it. They had two months to prepare
On January 27 2015 06:36 Thax wrote: Damn, some of the opinions in this thread... People should be banned from competition because they're too good? I'd like to see someone try that on the world cup. "Well Germany and Brazil can't play, that's unfair for the rest of the world." The competition should be scheduled around the demands of semi-pros? They're still pro's. The format was known up front. If the schedule is going to be a problem for someone, then he shouldn't have committed to the tournament. That's the "pro" part of being a pro-gamer. Professional athletes that still need to hold jobs to be able to make due or are still studying travel to compete all the time.
Anyway, I'm SO looking forward to this. Much more exciting and interesting than the separate tournaments for EU and US.
This idea that "pros must deliver X, because they are pros" is incredibly ignorant of the real state of the scene. Please stop pretending that we are drowning in money and that the foreign SC2 easily supports dozens of people as full-time pros, because that just does not happen. These people have to something else in their lives besides SC2, if they want to eat and live somewhere or have any future. Who do you think you are to demand that people give up everything for you to watch it?
If you really wish to see only those who are 100% commited to SC2 and close the competition for anyone else, there is a very easy answer how to hold Ro32: not at all, because there won't be 32 players to compete.
What are you even on about? I'm well aware of the state of e-sport earnings. I didn't say anything to the contrary. I'm also not demanding anything from anyone. I sure as hell never said anything about closing people out who or not 100% committed or any such nonsense. Of course they have to have a job, or more likely since a lot of them are very young and still in studying, live with their parents to support themselves. My argument is that, newsflash, this is true for a lot of sports and competitions. Belgium has a female boxer who is the current world champion in her weight class in all 3 (!) the major organisations she competes in. Guess what? She's "only" a part time pro and has a job to make ends meet. This is true for a lot of athletes in "minor" sports or even people who don't compete at the top in "bigger" sports. They somehow all manage to schedule their lives around their athletic's careers.
On January 27 2015 06:36 Thax wrote: Damn, some of the opinions in this thread... People should be banned from competition because they're too good? I'd like to see someone try that on the world cup. "Well Germany and Brazil can't play, that's unfair for the rest of the world." The competition should be scheduled around the demands of semi-pros? They're still pro's. The format was known up front. If the schedule is going to be a problem for someone, then he shouldn't have committed to the tournament. That's the "pro" part of being a pro-gamer. Professional athletes that still need to hold jobs to be able to make due or are still studying travel to compete all the time.
Anyway, I'm SO looking forward to this. Much more exciting and interesting than the separate tournaments for EU and US.
This idea that "pros must deliver X, because they are pros" is incredibly ignorant of the real state of the scene. Please stop pretending that we are drowning in money and that the foreign SC2 easily supports dozens of people as full-time pros, because that just does not happen. These people have to something else in their lives besides SC2, if they want to eat and live somewhere or have any future. Who do you think you are to demand that people give up everything for you to watch it?
If you really wish to see only those who are 100% commited to SC2 and close the competition for anyone else, there is a very easy answer how to hold Ro32: not at all, because there won't be 32 players to compete.
What are you even on about? I'm well aware of the state of e-sport earnings. I didn't say anything to the contrary. I'm also not demanding anything from anyone. I sure as hell never said anything about closing people out who or not 100% committed or any such nonsense. Of course they have to have a job, or more likely since a lot of them are very young and still in studying, live with their parents to support themselves. My argument is that, newsflash, this is true for a lot of sports and competitions. Belgium has a female boxer who is the current world champion in her weight class in all 3 (!) the major organisations she competes in. Guess what? She's "only" a part time pro and has a job to make ends meet. This is true for a lot of athletes in "minor" sports or even people who don't compete at the top in "bigger" sports. They somehow all manage to schedule their lives around their athletic's careers.
So your argument is simply that because idiocy exists in other sports, it needs to be imported to SC2 asap?
On January 27 2015 06:36 Thax wrote: Damn, some of the opinions in this thread... People should be banned from competition because they're too good? I'd like to see someone try that on the world cup. "Well Germany and Brazil can't play, that's unfair for the rest of the world." The competition should be scheduled around the demands of semi-pros? They're still pro's. The format was known up front. If the schedule is going to be a problem for someone, then he shouldn't have committed to the tournament. That's the "pro" part of being a pro-gamer. Professional athletes that still need to hold jobs to be able to make due or are still studying travel to compete all the time.
Anyway, I'm SO looking forward to this. Much more exciting and interesting than the separate tournaments for EU and US.
This idea that "pros must deliver X, because they are pros" is incredibly ignorant of the real state of the scene. Please stop pretending that we are drowning in money and that the foreign SC2 easily supports dozens of people as full-time pros, because that just does not happen. These people have to something else in their lives besides SC2, if they want to eat and live somewhere or have any future. Who do you think you are to demand that people give up everything for you to watch it?
If you really wish to see only those who are 100% commited to SC2 and close the competition for anyone else, there is a very easy answer how to hold Ro32: not at all, because there won't be 32 players to compete.
What are you even on about? I'm well aware of the state of e-sport earnings. I didn't say anything to the contrary. I'm also not demanding anything from anyone. I sure as hell never said anything about closing people out who or not 100% committed or any such nonsense. Of course they have to have a job, or more likely since a lot of them are very young and still in studying, live with their parents to support themselves. My argument is that, newsflash, this is true for a lot of sports and competitions. Belgium has a female boxer who is the current world champion in her weight class in all 3 (!) the major organisations she competes in. Guess what? She's "only" a part time pro and has a job to make ends meet. This is true for a lot of athletes in "minor" sports or even people who don't compete at the top in "bigger" sports. They somehow all manage to schedule their lives around their athletic's careers.
So your argument is simply that because idiocy exists in other sports, it needs to be imported to SC2 asap?
Yes, that's it exactly. Nailed it. I applaud your reading comprehension skills.
On January 27 2015 06:36 Thax wrote: Damn, some of the opinions in this thread... People should be banned from competition because they're too good? I'd like to see someone try that on the world cup. "Well Germany and Brazil can't play, that's unfair for the rest of the world." The competition should be scheduled around the demands of semi-pros? They're still pro's. The format was known up front. If the schedule is going to be a problem for someone, then he shouldn't have committed to the tournament. That's the "pro" part of being a pro-gamer. Professional athletes that still need to hold jobs to be able to make due or are still studying travel to compete all the time.
Anyway, I'm SO looking forward to this. Much more exciting and interesting than the separate tournaments for EU and US.
This idea that "pros must deliver X, because they are pros" is incredibly ignorant of the real state of the scene. Please stop pretending that we are drowning in money and that the foreign SC2 easily supports dozens of people as full-time pros, because that just does not happen. These people have to something else in their lives besides SC2, if they want to eat and live somewhere or have any future. Who do you think you are to demand that people give up everything for you to watch it?
If you really wish to see only those who are 100% commited to SC2 and close the competition for anyone else, there is a very easy answer how to hold Ro32: not at all, because there won't be 32 players to compete.
What are you even on about? I'm well aware of the state of e-sport earnings. I didn't say anything to the contrary. I'm also not demanding anything from anyone. I sure as hell never said anything about closing people out who or not 100% committed or any such nonsense. Of course they have to have a job, or more likely since a lot of them are very young and still in studying, live with their parents to support themselves. My argument is that, newsflash, this is true for a lot of sports and competitions. Belgium has a female boxer who is the current world champion in her weight class in all 3 (!) the major organisations she competes in. Guess what? She's "only" a part time pro and has a job to make ends meet. This is true for a lot of athletes in "minor" sports or even people who don't compete at the top in "bigger" sports. They somehow all manage to schedule their lives around their athletic's careers.
However I'm pretty sure your Belgian female boxer knows her tournaments' dates, schedules and locations well in advance, probably several months in advance. Which makes it way way easier to schedule her life around it, than if she got to know where and when X tournament is taking place one or two week before the tournament begins.
On January 27 2015 06:36 Thax wrote: Damn, some of the opinions in this thread... People should be banned from competition because they're too good? I'd like to see someone try that on the world cup. "Well Germany and Brazil can't play, that's unfair for the rest of the world." The competition should be scheduled around the demands of semi-pros? They're still pro's. The format was known up front. If the schedule is going to be a problem for someone, then he shouldn't have committed to the tournament. That's the "pro" part of being a pro-gamer. Professional athletes that still need to hold jobs to be able to make due or are still studying travel to compete all the time.
Anyway, I'm SO looking forward to this. Much more exciting and interesting than the separate tournaments for EU and US.
This idea that "pros must deliver X, because they are pros" is incredibly ignorant of the real state of the scene. Please stop pretending that we are drowning in money and that the foreign SC2 easily supports dozens of people as full-time pros, because that just does not happen. These people have to something else in their lives besides SC2, if they want to eat and live somewhere or have any future. Who do you think you are to demand that people give up everything for you to watch it?
If you really wish to see only those who are 100% commited to SC2 and close the competition for anyone else, there is a very easy answer how to hold Ro32: not at all, because there won't be 32 players to compete.
What are you even on about? I'm well aware of the state of e-sport earnings. I didn't say anything to the contrary. I'm also not demanding anything from anyone. I sure as hell never said anything about closing people out who or not 100% committed or any such nonsense. Of course they have to have a job, or more likely since a lot of them are very young and still in studying, live with their parents to support themselves. My argument is that, newsflash, this is true for a lot of sports and competitions. Belgium has a female boxer who is the current world champion in her weight class in all 3 (!) the major organisations she competes in. Guess what? She's "only" a part time pro and has a job to make ends meet. This is true for a lot of athletes in "minor" sports or even people who don't compete at the top in "bigger" sports. They somehow all manage to schedule their lives around their athletic's careers.
So your argument is simply that because idiocy exists in other sports, it needs to be imported to SC2 asap?
That's not an idiocy, omg. You can't have global events (or World Championships) in everyones town...
On January 27 2015 06:36 Thax wrote: Damn, some of the opinions in this thread... People should be banned from competition because they're too good? I'd like to see someone try that on the world cup. "Well Germany and Brazil can't play, that's unfair for the rest of the world." The competition should be scheduled around the demands of semi-pros? They're still pro's. The format was known up front. If the schedule is going to be a problem for someone, then he shouldn't have committed to the tournament. That's the "pro" part of being a pro-gamer. Professional athletes that still need to hold jobs to be able to make due or are still studying travel to compete all the time.
Anyway, I'm SO looking forward to this. Much more exciting and interesting than the separate tournaments for EU and US.
This idea that "pros must deliver X, because they are pros" is incredibly ignorant of the real state of the scene. Please stop pretending that we are drowning in money and that the foreign SC2 easily supports dozens of people as full-time pros, because that just does not happen. These people have to something else in their lives besides SC2, if they want to eat and live somewhere or have any future. Who do you think you are to demand that people give up everything for you to watch it?
If you really wish to see only those who are 100% commited to SC2 and close the competition for anyone else, there is a very easy answer how to hold Ro32: not at all, because there won't be 32 players to compete.
What are you even on about? I'm well aware of the state of e-sport earnings. I didn't say anything to the contrary. I'm also not demanding anything from anyone. I sure as hell never said anything about closing people out who or not 100% committed or any such nonsense. Of course they have to have a job, or more likely since a lot of them are very young and still in studying, live with their parents to support themselves. My argument is that, newsflash, this is true for a lot of sports and competitions. Belgium has a female boxer who is the current world champion in her weight class in all 3 (!) the major organisations she competes in. Guess what? She's "only" a part time pro and has a job to make ends meet. This is true for a lot of athletes in "minor" sports or even people who don't compete at the top in "bigger" sports. They somehow all manage to schedule their lives around their athletic's careers.
However I'm pretty sure your Belgian female boxer knows her tournaments' dates, schedules and locations well in advance, probably several months in advance. Which makes it way way easier to schedule her life around it, than if she got to know where and when X tournament is taking place one or two week before the tournament begins.
Yea, true. I'll give you that. They (Blizz and ESL) really should prepare and announce all this stuff way sooner. It was all still known before the qualifiers happened though.
EPT
Protoss (10): 
Jim, 
Terran (9): 
iaguz, 
Zerg (13): 
iAsonu, 
Korea: 4
China: 4
USA: 3
Finland: 2
Taiwan: 2
Germany: 2
Sweden: 2
Canada: 2
Australia: 2
Norway: 2
Mexico: 1
Brazil: 1
Russia: 1
France: 1
Netherlands: 1
Denmark: 1
Poland: 1
Firecake 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xFDIJcy.png?1)
