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On January 21 2015 09:48 Psione wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 09:36 Circumstance wrote:
"Balance the game around this one change" is always a risky proposition, and never one I've personally cared for. I understand that it's extreme cases that cause Blizzard to take action (Stephano vs. Petraeus is singlehandedly responsible for Brood Lords getting the Frenzied ability), and the Lillekanin game is absolutely indicative of a serious problem, but I do think that this, like every other Test Map change, has to be tweaked before implementation can be put on the table. Let me rephrase it to be less scary. It's more about this being the first step. We're aware of the many potential issues that could pop up in the first iteration of the balance test map. Once we've seen how that works out, we'll look at what additional changes may need to be made. Could be the Swarm Host, could be to other units, etc. It's just a matter of seeing how it works out in the first map.
That's reasurring, because it kind of reminded me how you guys balanced the game around the forcefield instead of doing something with that.
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proof that VOID is a patch and nothing more
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On January 21 2015 09:26 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 09:16 ETisME wrote:
I am surprised to see this, I guess it would mean that lotv won't be coming out so soon?
Or that they are not sure how people react to new swarmhost and they want to test it out before too late?
Neither way I am excited for it If HotS was any model for the release of LotV, we still have a full year ahead of us. And so far all the dates - reveal, no beta start date yet, so its probably gonna take till summer and then half a year of testing - are quite similar. At this point in WoL (2012) the Infestor menance hadn't even started and we can really only hope that blizzard doesn't let HotS die in the next year by abandoning ship. And I think you are right, they want to test the deep Swarm Host changes before they put it into LotV. They have been getting a lot of negative feedback about leaving the unit in the game at all and I think this is really their last chance to make the whole free unit concept work. So better not put it into LotV untested. Also after matches like Lillekanin's they really have to patch just to ensure tournament schedules. Say, that match would happen at Blizzcon or Dreamhack. all the brackets are ruined, games have to be postponed to the next day... That's some serious business concern for tournament organizers! Patching is the way to go here, even if the 3hour games were fun...
Agree completely.
I am just worried that the new swarmhost with hots economy will give the wrong impression.
I would prefer them to push the beta or alpha test earlier instead.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
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I think they should just take the darn thing out. I don't know why they insist on its presence in the game. No more free units... OR give everyone free units of some kind. This is all just a bandaid for a bullet wound in my opinion.
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The dev team couldn't hold their load until LotV, should be interesting.
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hell, if they're willing to change swarm hosts completely, why not add in lurkers before expansion too? :D
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Woah. Crazy changes coming out from Blizzard. Things are going to be shaken up, and I really like it.
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your Country52797 Posts
These are cool changes, and they just might imply there could be more coming soon for LotV since changes are being moved over here?
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It will be interesting to see how zerg reacts with turtle protoss, especially on maps like dead wing.
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And Blizzard didn't even wait until beta to change the swarm host. Lol, swarm host was horribly designed with no role to fill in the game... I guess good job, Blizzard? Even though it took about a couple of years?
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Canada8159 Posts
More details about the new swarm host
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/15699096472?page=7#131
Swarm Host- No longer start with Burrow
- Enduring Locusts upgrade is no longer available.
- Evolve Flying Locust upgrade has been added.
Spawn LocustCooldown 60 seconds
Can be cast while burrowed or unburrowed.
Must be manually cast. No longer has auto-cast.
Spawns 2 Locusts. Locusts have a 30 second timed life. Locust- 12 damage
- 0.6 weapon speed
- 30 second duration
Evolve Flying Locust- Requires Lair
- 200/200/160
- Allows Locusts spawned by Swarm Hosts to fly. Flying Locusts can use Swoop to land and attack.
- Swoop: Orders the Locust to land at the targeted location, allowing it to attack.
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Horrible change to SH. They are fine the way they are now and they are the only option to defeating the Protoss deathball straight-up. If Blizz is going to neuter the SH this way they need to redesign the Protoss race.
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I don't get it, why not simply make locust spawn manual and be done with it ?! It's that simple!
Why mess with the Raven PDDs in such a drastic manner, and pretty much destroy the only soft counter terran has to mass tempests game play ? (that if the terran survives until toss transitions to air)
I don't know why this guys at blizzard come up with such complicated "solutions", maybe , being involved for so many years in this product they are unable (mentally) to come up with simple solutions.
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I am really happy that those changes might come earlier than LotV.
Those two units really need some rework.
As for the SH:
Well, the flying locust actually look really scary within the LotV Custom mod. But so do 2 medivacs with stimmed bio and a zealot warp in. All those can take down a base behind enemy’s lines within a few seconds. The difference is that you do not risk resources, when sniping a base with flying locusts, but supply. If the recharge time does not change, you will have a lot of dead supply for 1 minute after sending out those locusts (similar to recharging widow mines). This should give the opponent enough time to deal some counter damage … maybe. Only problem is, you do not need to kill the base within one locust wave when playing against Z or P. So you do not need that much supply in SH, which could be a problem.
But the flying locust should at least get rid of the stalement by bypassing siege tank and colossus fire.
Never understood why SH spawned mass units in the first place. This always forces more tanks and colossus’ (colossi?), without being able to break a siege line. Might have been better, if a single, strong unit was spawned, which could actually tank some shots and reach those siege units with their fancy splash damage and kill them. Thus forcing units with higher single target damage like Immortals or Marauders, making the army vulnerable to lings and other Zerg units.
As for the Raven:
The PDD change should forces a lot of engagements and disengagements by the attacker, which sounds interessting. But as the raven user has to wait for the attacker to commit to a fight to not waste energy on PDDs that watch the enemy walk away, the attacker should be able to slowly take down single units from the raven user. If the raven user attacks and can chose the time of the battle, I see no big difference to the PDD we have now. There are rarely battles that last more than 20s.
How many ravens would be needed to always have a PDD active with the changed duration?
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On January 21 2015 10:59 ElMeanYo wrote:
Horrible change to SH. They are fine the way they are now and they are the only option to defeating the Protoss deathball straight-up. If Blizz is going to neuter the SH this way they need to redesign the Protoss race.
They specifically noted that they'll probably have to make balance updates to other races if this change goes through.
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Major unit design changes mid expansion? I am impressed. I hope to god it goes through.
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We will see how this one goes. We might see some potent timing pushes with Swarm Hosts now if Protoss plays a bit too greedy as new Locusts are ridiculously strong and you can't just kite them around or attack them, you have to FF or run away, and you can't run away if you want to defend your third.
Thing Blizzard didn't say in their posts(if SHs are actually the ones from Alpha) is that they cost 100/200 instead of 200/100, and another very important thing, they have movement speed of a Stalker now. Yes, the Stalker, which means 2.95, very fast for such unit. This also means that you can actually play aggressively with them now in these kind of timings, as they won't be dead the moment Protoss finds the path to them.
This could also be not viable of course, but I would really love to see somebody tries that out(like Snute's old style where he would rush with Queens and Swarm Hosts in your face, and just keep relying units there).
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EPT
