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On November 09 2014 10:16 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:08 SmileZerg wrote:On November 09 2014 10:05 Big J wrote:On November 09 2014 09:55 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 09 2014 09:51 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 09 2014 09:40 SmileZerg wrote:On November 09 2014 09:34 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 09 2014 09:27 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 09 2014 09:25 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 09 2014 09:23 404AlphaSquad wrote:
[quote]
So you want to say that there havent been any complaints about HOTS? Thats laughable. No. I want to say that you're overstating them. Which is what I wrote. Do you even understand English? Perhaps its only the nostalgia talk from you. If you like HOTS so much continue playing it. Let the rest play what they want. And yes you should be happy because you can still continue to play HOTS if you dont like change. It's not just about playing the game. I also really enjoy watching the game. It's pretty clear that the pro-scene will move on to LotV when it comes out and so telling me that I can still play HotS is very silly. So no I am not happy. I think the current announced changes and units are a travesty. What part of the following do you consider a travesty? - Lurkers, one of the best-designed units in BW? - Ravagers, an early game answer to Force Fields, with a micro-intensive ability that allows for counterplay? - Viable Carriers and Nydus Worms? - Removal of a redundant spell from the Oracle for a more interesting one? - Swarm Hosts that no longer draw out games into stalemates? - New units and abilities that can make for more interesting Mech play from Terran? What is your issue here? Keep in mind that balance whine isn't valid since these units haven't gone through beta testing and revision yet. What part of "currently announced" don't you understand? Of course the units are going to go through beta testing and revision. I'm saying that what's announced so far is terrible. For example, what the fuck is the Cyclone? It's clearly imbalanced. How anyone at Blizzard thought it was okay to show that unit in its current state makes me have a very small/non-existent amount of faith in their ability to do anything properly. Yes, it could and probably will be changed, but I said "currently announced" for a reason. The units aren't the main problem though. That Blizzard want to change core mechanics like the number of workers you start with or how fast bases turnover their economy worries me greatly. I like how economy currently works in SC2 a lot. I think the flow works well, I think that a lot of playstyles are viable and that the game tends to be very exciting despite constant (massively incorrect) whining about people "turtling" on three bases. I wouldn't watch it if I didn't fine it exciting. It feels like Blizzard are trying to get new players into the game at the expense of people who like how it is now and I don't like that. It's a slap in the face to those who are passionate about the game in its current state. But that is subjective isnt it? What is good and what is bad for the game? So this hasnt to do with competence of Blizzard. If they would say we implement a flying collossi that shoots 8 lasers, then you would have a point. But so far it is I dont like unit X. I dont like that Y part of the game is beeing changed and that it is good how Y is now, despite all the people thinking otherwise. Also many decade loyal BW players considered SC2 a slap in their face. They showcased the Cyclone in the state that it is in and people are defending it by telling others to wait for the beta. I think I'm not leaning far out of the window when I say a flying 8laser collossus is just as easy to nerf into the ground and make playable as the cyclone. Which doesn't change that the concepts at a core aren't fun and need quite an overhaul. What is wrong with the Cyclone, conceptually? It's not an a-move unit. It needs to be micro'd. Simple micro, but still. It's a bit too strong right now, maybe more than just a bit even, but that can be adjusted with a few stat changes. The idea of the unit is not boring, not like the Warhound was. It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cTVkbqS.jpg) E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't.
I know exactly how the unit works. I'm saying there's not a problem with the concept. It just needs the stats to be weakened so it doesn't melt things so quickly and efficiently. There are plenty of ways to deal with it. Saying "you either have the hardcounters to kill it or you don't" is like saying "you either have units to shoot up or you don't" versus air units, but there's nothing wrong with that in concept either.
And no, this is nothing like the Colossus. The problem with the Colossus is that it is mobile AoE. Cyclones are single target. There is a massive, MASSIVE difference.
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Pick up tanks in siege mode? They seriously didnt know how to do it any better? Looks rridiculous
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On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way.
Thats the biggest thing. It's a ranged units with tons of DPS - something Terran already has quite enough of.
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On November 09 2014 10:21 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:11 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 09 2014 10:05 Big J wrote:On November 09 2014 09:55 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 09 2014 09:51 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 09 2014 09:40 SmileZerg wrote:On November 09 2014 09:34 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 09 2014 09:27 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 09 2014 09:25 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 09 2014 09:23 404AlphaSquad wrote:
[quote]
So you want to say that there havent been any complaints about HOTS? Thats laughable. No. I want to say that you're overstating them. Which is what I wrote. Do you even understand English? Perhaps its only the nostalgia talk from you. If you like HOTS so much continue playing it. Let the rest play what they want. And yes you should be happy because you can still continue to play HOTS if you dont like change. It's not just about playing the game. I also really enjoy watching the game. It's pretty clear that the pro-scene will move on to LotV when it comes out and so telling me that I can still play HotS is very silly. So no I am not happy. I think the current announced changes and units are a travesty. What part of the following do you consider a travesty? - Lurkers, one of the best-designed units in BW? - Ravagers, an early game answer to Force Fields, with a micro-intensive ability that allows for counterplay? - Viable Carriers and Nydus Worms? - Removal of a redundant spell from the Oracle for a more interesting one? - Swarm Hosts that no longer draw out games into stalemates? - New units and abilities that can make for more interesting Mech play from Terran? What is your issue here? Keep in mind that balance whine isn't valid since these units haven't gone through beta testing and revision yet. What part of "currently announced" don't you understand? Of course the units are going to go through beta testing and revision. I'm saying that what's announced so far is terrible. For example, what the !@#$%^&* is the Cyclone? It's clearly imbalanced. How anyone at Blizzard thought it was okay to show that unit in its current state makes me have a very small/non-existent amount of faith in their ability to do anything properly. Yes, it could and probably will be changed, but I said "currently announced" for a reason. The units aren't the main problem though. That Blizzard want to change core mechanics like the number of workers you start with or how fast bases turnover their economy worries me greatly. I like how economy currently works in SC2 a lot. I think the flow works well, I think that a lot of playstyles are viable and that the game tends to be very exciting despite constant (massively incorrect) whining about people "turtling" on three bases. I wouldn't watch it if I didn't fine it exciting. It feels like Blizzard are trying to get new players into the game at the expense of people who like how it is now and I don't like that. It's a slap in the face to those who are passionate about the game in its current state. But that is subjective isnt it? What is good and what is bad for the game? So this hasnt to do with competence of Blizzard. If they would say we implement a flying collossi that shoots 8 lasers, then you would have a point. But so far it is I dont like unit X. I dont like that Y part of the game is beeing changed and that it is good how Y is now, despite all the people thinking otherwise. Also many decade loyal BW players considered SC2 a slap in their face. They showcased the Cyclone in the state that it is in and people are defending it by telling others to wait for the beta. I think I'm not leaning far out of the window when I say a flying 8laser collossus is just as easy to nerf into the ground and make playable as the cyclone. Which doesn't change that the concepts at a core aren't fun and need quite an overhaul. They looked too strong vs protoss, that's pretty much it. David Kim said they are looking into adding an early gaem toss unit still, so i don't think the cyclone is that big of a deal tbh. People also forget that these games were played in archon mode, you still have to micro the unit, so i don't see what is so bad about the "concept at a core" And it hardcountered Roaches. I don't know people suddenly think it's good design when one unit cannot even touch another unit. Those types of interactions have never been fun.
Then don't build ONLY roaches, i know it's a complex concept when you can't just mass ONE unit, but maybe future sc2 pros will master this idea of playing.
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As far as units go:
I dont like any of the new ones too much. I am fine with them, but I dont find them "exciting". I love every change they did to existing units though XD
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On November 09 2014 10:24 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way. Thats the biggest thing. It's a ranged units with tons of DPS - something Terran already has quite enough of.
Yeah exactly. It overlaps a LOT.
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On November 09 2014 10:26 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:24 KeksX wrote:On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way. Thats the biggest thing. It's a ranged units with tons of DPS - something Terran already has quite enough of. Yeah exactly. It overlaps a LOT.
So does the Herc, btw. It's like a Firebat with a different attack animation.
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On November 09 2014 10:26 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:24 KeksX wrote:On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way. Thats the biggest thing. It's a ranged units with tons of DPS - something Terran already has quite enough of. Yeah exactly. It overlaps a LOT.
But it does one thing very well and what I really like: Zoning. one of these guys outside of your base zones you in. there wasnt enough zoning in sc2 imo. So I like they add that in.
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On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:Show nested quote +It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The thing is that that's a CURRENT state.. We don't know how long does a Cyclone need to retarget after one target has been shut down or escaped from that range.. Protoss could make Hallucinations early on to "confuse" this unit as well as Forcefields to prevent it's retreat path.. Oracles can drop the wards to have them stasised.. Zergs have SpeedLings to surround it, and overall the Zerg don't have much of "juicy targets" except maybe the Queens in the early game The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? I like it cause it seems as an elegant solution to units with a high value from range therefore discouraging deathball play
The concept that I have seen is a long range mobile kiteable-without-having-to-stop artillery unit with high damage attacking ground and air. So no, I don't like that.
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most of the cyclone's problems would be solved by reducing the leash range so there is more room for counter micro, stepping in and outside of leash range etc.
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On November 09 2014 10:26 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 09 2014 10:21 Hider wrote:On November 09 2014 10:11 The_Red_Viper wrote:On November 09 2014 10:05 Big J wrote:On November 09 2014 09:55 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 09 2014 09:51 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 09 2014 09:40 SmileZerg wrote:On November 09 2014 09:34 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 09 2014 09:27 404AlphaSquad wrote:
[quote]
Perhaps its only the nostalgia talk from you. If you like HOTS so much continue playing it. Let the rest play what they want. And yes you should be happy because you can still continue to play HOTS if you dont like change. It's not just about playing the game. I also really enjoy watching the game. It's pretty clear that the pro-scene will move on to LotV when it comes out and so telling me that I can still play HotS is very silly. So no I am not happy. I think the current announced changes and units are a travesty. What part of the following do you consider a travesty? - Lurkers, one of the best-designed units in BW? - Ravagers, an early game answer to Force Fields, with a micro-intensive ability that allows for counterplay? - Viable Carriers and Nydus Worms? - Removal of a redundant spell from the Oracle for a more interesting one? - Swarm Hosts that no longer draw out games into stalemates? - New units and abilities that can make for more interesting Mech play from Terran? What is your issue here? Keep in mind that balance whine isn't valid since these units haven't gone through beta testing and revision yet. What part of "currently announced" don't you understand? Of course the units are going to go through beta testing and revision. I'm saying that what's announced so far is terrible. For example, what the !@#$%^&* is the Cyclone? It's clearly imbalanced. How anyone at Blizzard thought it was okay to show that unit in its current state makes me have a very small/non-existent amount of faith in their ability to do anything properly. Yes, it could and probably will be changed, but I said "currently announced" for a reason. The units aren't the main problem though. That Blizzard want to change core mechanics like the number of workers you start with or how fast bases turnover their economy worries me greatly. I like how economy currently works in SC2 a lot. I think the flow works well, I think that a lot of playstyles are viable and that the game tends to be very exciting despite constant (massively incorrect) whining about people "turtling" on three bases. I wouldn't watch it if I didn't fine it exciting. It feels like Blizzard are trying to get new players into the game at the expense of people who like how it is now and I don't like that. It's a slap in the face to those who are passionate about the game in its current state. But that is subjective isnt it? What is good and what is bad for the game? So this hasnt to do with competence of Blizzard. If they would say we implement a flying collossi that shoots 8 lasers, then you would have a point. But so far it is I dont like unit X. I dont like that Y part of the game is beeing changed and that it is good how Y is now, despite all the people thinking otherwise. Also many decade loyal BW players considered SC2 a slap in their face. They showcased the Cyclone in the state that it is in and people are defending it by telling others to wait for the beta. I think I'm not leaning far out of the window when I say a flying 8laser collossus is just as easy to nerf into the ground and make playable as the cyclone. Which doesn't change that the concepts at a core aren't fun and need quite an overhaul. They looked too strong vs protoss, that's pretty much it. David Kim said they are looking into adding an early gaem toss unit still, so i don't think the cyclone is that big of a deal tbh. People also forget that these games were played in archon mode, you still have to micro the unit, so i don't see what is so bad about the "concept at a core" And it hardcountered Roaches. I don't know people suddenly think it's good design when one unit cannot even touch another unit. Those types of interactions have never been fun. Then don't build ONLY roaches, i know it's a complex concept when you can't just mass ONE unit, but maybe future sc2 pros will master this idea of playing. But you can just mass one unit. That unit is the Cyclone. :3
Gl with that when the zerg player builds some zerglings
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On November 09 2014 10:27 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:26 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:24 KeksX wrote:On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way. Thats the biggest thing. It's a ranged units with tons of DPS - something Terran already has quite enough of. Yeah exactly. It overlaps a LOT. So does the Herc, btw. It's like a Firebat with a different attack animation.
Quite true but not in the same way, it has different mobility and potential. Anyway none of those units were "needed", I don't really see how they will have them not overlap without scrapping preexisting units, we already have so many for each race...
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On November 09 2014 10:28 404AlphaSquad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:26 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:24 KeksX wrote:On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way. Thats the biggest thing. It's a ranged units with tons of DPS - something Terran already has quite enough of. Yeah exactly. It overlaps a LOT. But it does one thing very well and what I really like: Zoning. one of these guys outside of your base zones you in. there wasnt enough zoning in sc2 imo. So I like they add that in.
And the few good zoning units that ARE in SC2 are.... terran units! So really Terran just doesn't really needs those units, it's additional DPS that looks fun but really doesn't add that much to the race.
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On November 09 2014 10:28 404AlphaSquad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:26 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:24 KeksX wrote:On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way. Thats the biggest thing. It's a ranged units with tons of DPS - something Terran already has quite enough of. Yeah exactly. It overlaps a LOT. But it does one thing very well and what I really like: Zoning. one of these guys outside of your base zones you in. there wasnt enough zoning in sc2 imo. So I like they add that in.
Mines, tanks and PDDs are zoning tools. Maybe they're not strong enough, but T is certainly not in need of zoning tools. You can buff their existing tools, but don't give them one that is such a catch-all answer.
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On November 09 2014 10:29 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The thing is that that's a CURRENT state.. We don't know how long does a Cyclone need to retarget after one target has been shut down or escaped from that range.. Protoss could make Hallucinations early on to "confuse" this unit as well as Forcefields to prevent it's retreat path.. Oracles can drop the wards to have them stasised.. Zergs have SpeedLings to surround it, and overall the Zerg don't have much of "juicy targets" except maybe the Queens in the early game The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? I like it cause it seems as an elegant solution to units with a high value from range therefore discouraging deathball play The concept that I have seen is a long range mobile kiteable-without-having-to-stop artillery unit with high damage attacking ground and air. So no, I don't like that.
Agreed. It is a general rule in RTS that a strength of a unit has to be divided in several aspects:
Cost, HP, speed, DPS, burst, range, ... . So far the cyclone has no visible drawback in these areas. It just gets countered by specific units.
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On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way.
Well if we look at unit roles, Blizzard has pointed out that it is supposed to counter the Lurker! That is per definition bad as the Siege tank actually could have a really interesting interaction against the Lurker where Siege tanks could siege up outside Lurker-range, which would allow the terran to gain new position.
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On November 09 2014 10:32 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:28 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 09 2014 10:26 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:24 KeksX wrote:On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way. Thats the biggest thing. It's a ranged units with tons of DPS - something Terran already has quite enough of. Yeah exactly. It overlaps a LOT. But it does one thing very well and what I really like: Zoning. one of these guys outside of your base zones you in. there wasnt enough zoning in sc2 imo. So I like they add that in. Mines. Tanks. PDD. Nukes. Terran needs more zoning tools? M'kay...
who doesnt understand English now? I said not enough zoning in sc2, not for terran. Also I pointed out, one of these holds your enemy in his base. Which of these tools you just mentioned accomplishes this?
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On November 09 2014 10:32 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way. Well if we look at unit roles, Blizzard has pointed out that it is supposed to counter the Lurker! That is per definition bad as the Siege tank actually could have a really interesting interaction against the Lurker where Siege tanks could siege up outside Lurker-range, which would allow the terran to gain new position.
To be honest the counter to the lurker is already in the game and it's called marauder...
On November 09 2014 10:33 404AlphaSquad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2014 10:32 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 09 2014 10:28 404AlphaSquad wrote:On November 09 2014 10:26 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:24 KeksX wrote:On November 09 2014 10:22 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 09 2014 10:21 VArsovskiSC wrote:It locks on a target and then moves away from it without having to stop, which means it hardcounters anything that is slower/less range than it. Which are a lot of units, given that the cyclone looked faster than the default 2.25 and has 6range with a 9range upgrade. And a massive leash range in which it will keep firing, even if you try to run away. E.g. the cyclone locks on a unit, you turn that unit around and run away and even if the cyclone would be put on hold position it would still shoot you for another 2-3seconds which with its current stats makes to about 90damage. People were whining about the Colossus being a mobile siege weapon. The Cyclone is a mobile siege weapon that can kite with little effort and has no weakness to air units. There is currently no countermicro against it, you just have the hardcounters to it, or you don't. The question is - do you like the CONCEPT, not the numbers ? To be honest, no. It doesn't look like something that is needed in any way. Thats the biggest thing. It's a ranged units with tons of DPS - something Terran already has quite enough of. Yeah exactly. It overlaps a LOT. But it does one thing very well and what I really like: Zoning. one of these guys outside of your base zones you in. there wasnt enough zoning in sc2 imo. So I like they add that in. Mines. Tanks. PDD. Nukes. Terran needs more zoning tools? M'kay... who doesnt understand English now? I said not enough zoning in sc2, not for terran.
Yeah but then the Cyclone doesn't help since it's a terran unit xD
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EPT
