EPTLegacy of the Void Announced - Page 71
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Swisslink
2956 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:50 Big J wrote: I don't see those things! The economical changes as far as I have seen are that you have to expand earlier because your bases run out faster, which might be good or bad but far from the worker scaling stuff that people wanted. The saturation hasn't been changed according to the exhibition matches. The 12 worker change is nice, it removes a lot of rushes that are too hard to scout because scouting with your 6th worker was economically unreasonable, but with 12workers it is reasonable to send one away the moment the game starts. How should they change the saturation without new maps? If you need 4-5 bases to even play the mid game you can't play the match on a map where the 4th is already quite hard to take normally. I think they just didn't want to show the new maps yet and therefore didn't show the changed saturation. | ||
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Ljas
Finland725 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:56 [PkF] Wire wrote: I tend to excuse that kind of reaction because it actually shows how much they care for the game. You can be damn unreasonable and irrational when it comes to things that really matter to you.  Which is unfortunate, since being unreasonable and irrational about it makes your concerns more likely to be completely ignored. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:34 Yonnua wrote: If anything the game is heading more in that direction; cutting out early aggression and making it harder to hit quick timings by nerfing warp-in speed (i.e. it's harder to warp in offensively but not at home where your deathball is. The changes push protoss more in that direction while cutting out fun aggressive options as much as possible. Warp prism harass is pretty much dead with the warp-in changes. Why do you say it cuts down early aggression? The warp gate nerf seems to be targeting mostly the defensive aspect of reactionary warp in, and this is great IMO as it will reward players that prepare before hand (leave units behind). The 4 sec delay i don't see how it's such a big deal for all ins. The Warp Prism changes also promote preparation of already loaded units (Immortals, the new unit, Colossus). Over all i think Protoss players that like to micro and get an advantage that way will be greatly rewarded, something that is very difficult in the current game. During the short interview of David Kim before the show match he said that the new unit is also intended as a micro option that reduces the importance of Colossus (he said the Colossus is a problem because it creates deathballs). So even if the changes as they are, are not perfect, it's clear the general idea and though behind it all is the correct one. The Zerg changes are also awesome! The new Roach thing with 8-9 range in conjunction with Vipers blinding cloud, vs Tanks and Medivac micro...finally the focus is on unit synergy and control to create couter play; no more stupid 3847 range fire an forget design. | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:45 Ljas wrote: If even a fraction of the whiners go through with their threats to stop watching and playing Starcraft 2 we'll have a much less toxic community to look forward to. Pretty much. If Blizzard takes all of this balance whining in this thread serious at all, they will just end up with the same end product as the other 2 games. The vocal part of the community seems to be the smallest part, yet they have so much power because it makes them seem like they are the only ones that play. If riot listened to everything the community said about everything without doing their own research into it, league wouldn't even be playable let alone tolerable. Sure, the LoL community is toxic as shit but riot does a majority of their nerfs/buffs just because they want to see a change unless a champ really needs it (LEBLANC). Just wish people would accept change and stop complaining. If the beta comes in January and something seems silly, it will prob be dealt with accordingly. Only thing I don't look forward to is the salty Diamond/low masters players that always complain about how their race is weak to make themselves feel better about their lack of skill being allowed to have serious input. HotS started out okay until people just lost because it wasn't the same as WoL and they didn't adjust accordingly.. we see how that ended up. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:28 Charoisaur wrote: i dont think they hate starcraft but they dont want it to be a good game but want it to bring much money. just forcing new units in the game although they are absolutely not fitting in the game. reminds me of pokemon; just add more and more stuff to get more sells but the game gets shittier and shittier. Hey don't hate on Pokémon, Gen 5 was awesome | ||
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Swisslink
2956 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:58 SatedSC2 wrote: I don't necessarily want LotV to fail, but if it is a completely different game then I would love to see HotS still being played. Because I won't be playing LotV if it stays remotely like this and where else do I go for competitive RTS..? HotS beta was mostly unit balance though. These changes are core gameplay changes. They shouldn't be making core gameplay changes at this point. Not as drastic as this. It's a completely different game if they make these changes. It's not an expansion. Well, for years people have been asking for drastic changes - and finally they do it. | ||
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ETisME
12866 Posts
I have no problem watching zerg doing everything they can to crush the terran defense. I have no problem with broodlord infestors except right until the deathball is out and too hard to deal with. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:01 Swisslink wrote: Well, for years people have been asking for drastic changes - and finally they do it. I agree with Sated it's kind of strange to do such drastic changes for an expansion. Brood War changed a lot of things but -correct me if I'm wrong- the core remained untouched. Changing the way the eco works, changing the role of a core Protoss mechanic like Warpgate, and doing all this at the same time while adding new units... Yeah, it's basically a new game. Good thing or bad thing ? Impossible to know yet. And there is absolutely no way HotS keeps being a thing after LotV release. It'll slowly fall into oblivion like WoL did when HotS came out. The only question is to know whether HotS will disappear alongside LotV or if LotV will be succesful, which I hope -though I hope the game evolves a lot from what was shown yesterday too ! | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16087 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:48 [PkF] Wire wrote: Please stop with that. It's a thread about the announcements, the ones who disagree with the direction towards the game seems to be heading have the right to be vocal about it. I agree threats like "I won't play SC2 anymore if this goes through" aren't constructive, but we don't have to play yes men. unit-wise they could change everything and i would still buy the game. but if they change something as fundamental as the economy this is not sc2 for me anymore and i see no reason to buy it. i play the game like it is and love it but if they change the fundamentals of the game it will change the complete flow of the game. they should just release a new rts for such changes and don't fuck up existing games. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:05 [PkF] Wire wrote: I agree with Sated it's kind of strange to do such drastic changes for an expansion. Brood War changed a lot of things but -correct me if I'm wrong- the core remained untouched. Changing the way the eco works, changing the role of a core Protoss mechanic like Warpgate, and doing all this at the same time while adding new units... Yeah, it's basically a new game. Good thing or bad thing ? Impossible to know yet. And there is absolutely no way HotS keeps being a thing after LotV release. It'll slowly fall into oblivion like WoL did when HotS came out. The only question is to know whether HotS will disappear alongside LotV or if LotV will be succesful, which I hope -though I hope the game evolves a lot from what was shown yesterday ! Blizzard's done it before. TFT was a bigger overhaul than LOTV will be, and there's no question that it made the game much better. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:06 Charoisaur wrote: i play the game like it is and love it but if they change the fundamentals of the game it will change the complete flow of the game. You don't even contemplate the possibility the game, though different, ends up being even better with those changes ? | ||
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Swisslink
2956 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:05 [PkF] Wire wrote: I agree with Sated it's kind of strange to do such drastic changes for an expansion. Brood War changed a lot of things but -correct me if I'm wrong- the core remained untouched. Changing the way the eco works, changing the role of a core Protoss mechanic like Warpgate, and doing all this at the same time while adding new units... Yeah, it's basically a new game. Good thing or bad thing ? Impossible to know yet. And there is absolutely no way HotS keeps being a thing after LotV release. It'll slowly fall into oblivion like WoL did when HotS came out. The only question is to know whether HotS will disappear alongside LotV or if LotV will be succesful, which I hope -though I hope the game evolves a lot from what was shown yesterday too ! For years, people wanted Blizzard to change that mechanic  I agree it's basically a new game - but SC2 has huge design issues and they won't be fixed by minor changes. And it seems that Blizzard accepted that and is willing to change the core of the game. Of course nobody knows if it's gonna be a good thing; but it had to be done, imo. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8760 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:11 KeksX wrote: Are people still on the hatetrain for LotV? Why is it so hard to just wait and see how it actually turns out? Because it's easier to hate first | ||
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roym899
Germany426 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:10 Swisslink wrote: So true. It's hilarious how everyones bitching about these major changes even though many people requested changes to warp gate and mining mechanics. No one knows how these things will turn out in the end. And probably a ton of changes will still be made.For years, people wanted Blizzard to change that mechanic I agree it's basically a new game - but SC2 has huge design issues and they won't be fixed by minor changes. And it seems that Blizzard accepted that and is willing to change the core of the game. Of course nobody knows if it's gonna be a good thing; but it had to be done, imo. | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:10 Swisslink wrote: For years, people wanted Blizzard to change that mechanic I agree it's basically a new game - but SC2 has huge design issues and they won't be fixed by minor changes. And it seems that Blizzard accepted that and is willing to change the core of the game. Of course nobody knows if it's gonna be a good thing; but it had to be done, imo. I agree. I really enjoy that alof of design issues are beeing adressed somewhat in this expansion. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16087 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: You don't even contemplate the possibility the game, though different, ends up being even better with those changes ? even if it is (which i don't think), i'm not a fan of changing the core mechanics of my favourite game. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
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