EPT
Legacy of the Void Announced - Page 73
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:44 ZAiNs wrote: Redeye said 'open beta in January' but I think that may be mis-information as it seems too early, and Heroes of the Storm was confirmed for open beta in January earlier too. HOTS is closed beta in January | ||
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Startyr
Scotland188 Posts
Watching the exhibition, Stardust and Jakji just didnt know what to do. Of course it is brand new so it is natural to immediately try the new units, but a more standard ling/muta then mass corrupters against the battlecruisers would have fared far better. Or even try the infestor, getting a fungal on the cyclones/medivacs and then providing a damage boost with their new ability. There are so many new combinations and tactics to try, it will be some time before players work out what works best and how they are supposed to fight certain combinations. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
protoss changes look ehhh terran changes look wtf. like random modder work | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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Miragee
8716 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:43 KeksX wrote: Broken can indicate both a not-working-as-intended mechanic due to bugs OR a mechanic that IS working but inherently flawed. If I say "Forcefields are broken" that could mean I say that I see them never working or that they suddenly have a 500 meters raidus(or something more subtle). It is also an absolute position as something might be broken due to something else. Broken can also mean that something influences the game in a way you don't like. I.e. "If zerg build banelings, I can't just go pure Marine. Thats so broken!" Imbalance is the go-to term to say that you don't like something. Just as the term broken it is used for far too many things: 1) Something is unavoidable 2) Something is too strong compared to another thing 3) Something is too weak compared to another thing All these things are extremely vague which is why any kind of balance discussion should be taken with a BIG, BIG grain of salt. We can say "Omg cyclone looks so imba" but that means nothing in the context of actual balance. What we instead should focus on in this kind of discussion(in my opinion) are concepts. What does the concept of more starting workers do? Don't focus on how " 12 workers at start make it impossible to do X". Numbers can be adjusted very easily. Well, that's why you always should elaborate on your stance. Throwing in a random adjective doesn't help any discussion ever. For these two terms: 1. It doesn't matter if broken means either "not working as intended" or "inherently flawed" since you have to elaborate on it anyways. 2. That the call for imbalance often contains a large amount of subjectiveness is indeed a problem but not the fault of the term itself because it's very clear on its basis. Surely you should take every balance discussion with a grain of salt because probably the majority of all comments don't pick up the entire picture. However in this case those two terms are really fitting. In a state where we have limited information and experience we can certainly talk about things being broken (again doesn't matter which "broken"). But we can't discuss balance on a reasonable level because fine counter develop over long periods of time. Many people mistake this and already talk about things need to be nerfed/removed because they are imbalanced. You can't say that just yet. But you can certainly say that a mechanic destroys some flow of the game or the like. | ||
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Dirtyharry
Germany171 Posts
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Jerom
Netherlands588 Posts
 It's probably going to be my favorite unit in the game. Also does anyone know where I can find the second showmatch's VOD? | ||
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ItzShakti
Brazil43 Posts
Warp gates are boring sometimes. | ||
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Aenur
Germany66 Posts
I just hope that this will be only the first step which they are willing to show us. Would really like it if they overhaul all existing units once again and maybe even exclude some units, which would be necessary for a good and slim functional game. Would be happy seeing following units go: Mothership/ Mothership Core (please really dont need a hero unit) Colossus (the disrupter looks like a nice replacement) Voidray (tweak Phoenix and Tempest abit more to replace him properly) Marauder (maybe reintroduce the Warhound as a mini thor instead, without that silly anti mech missiles) Thor Banshee/Reaper/Hellion (at least one harass unit should go) Swarmhost (i still dont have much hopes for this unit) Locusts xD Overall I like the direction they choose. If i compare my feeling to that time when HotS were announced, this makes me much more optimistic than i were back then. | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:56 Sapphire.lux wrote: I have to say i don't really understand the Herc from a design POV. Are they looking to faze out the need for a factory unit when going bio? I see a lot of potential in the Herc! They can use the hook in siege tanks and colossi (and lurkers!), and tank damage overall. But im not sure what they are supposed to be, i see the potential for a sniper unit (closing the gap to squishy long range units), but they have a splash damage upgrade... :/ The only problem i spot with what i saw (considering there is plenty of time to tweak numbers), is that they are buffing T early game, but not the early game from other races (protoss was actually nerfed wtf). If they don't change that either the game is released broken or the Herc and Cyclone are nerfed until they are useless or removed... | ||
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nvrs
Greece481 Posts
On November 08 2014 23:11 KeksX wrote: Are people still on the hatetrain for LotV? Why is it so hard to just wait and see how it actually turns out? +1 | ||
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nvrs
Greece481 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B15JF9QIQAAox3L.jpg) | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On November 08 2014 04:40 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: While some of these changes seem quite radical and incredibly broken, it's worth remembering that Brood War was a game where everything was broken but the brokenness across all three races created balance. A step towards these radical ideas suggests a return to more exciting games. More to come, thread will be updated as the day progresses. Comparing this pile of a game to Broodwar makes me sad. User was warned for this post | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:10 ItzShakti wrote: I wish they made normal gateways useful with something like reducing the time needed to make an unit by something like 20 after warp gate is researched(warp gates reduce by 10 now). Warp gates are boring sometimes. They havent announced all the changes yet, who knows what is to come, they even said there was the probability of another new protoss unit | ||
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Yonnua
United Kingdom2331 Posts
On November 08 2014 22:41 KingAlphard wrote: How is warp prism harass dead? Most of the times your units won't be attacked while warping in. Also it reduces your defensive options too, for example if you are being dropped or being attacked by a ling runby you can't warp in units right there so easily. Early aggression isn't cut out at all. You just have early cheese with more units because of the better economy. I disagree with this nerf and I think (hope) it won't pass the beta but I don't see it changing the game drastically. Have you ever done warp prism harass vs zerg? Your units get attacked while building all the time and the time taken to warp in units massively effects how many prongs you can attack on. If you start warping in in a zerg main they now have loads more time to get their units over there to defend. Any build that starts from 9-14 supply is now gone, so basically any gateway pressure in PvP or PvT is gone, anything before stargate/robo is gone in all matchups. | ||
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SwedenTheKid
567 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:10 ItzShakti wrote: I wish they made normal gateways useful with something like reducing the time needed to make an unit by something like 20 after warp gate is researched(warp gates reduce by 10 now). Warp gates are boring sometimes. You mean like in Starbow? Then I totally agree. Pointless units/structures are pointless. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On November 09 2014 00:32 Yonnua wrote: Have you ever done warp prism harass vs zerg? Your units get attacked while building all the time and the time taken to warp in units massively effects how many prongs you can attack on. If you start warping in in a zerg main they now have loads more time to get their units over there to defend. Any build that starts from 9-14 supply is now gone, so basically any gateway pressure in PvP or PvT is gone, anything before stargate/robo is gone in all matchups. Making claims about new early game timings before anyone has played a single game is ridicolous. Just wait and see what happens. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
Stuff like picking up sieged tanks and speeding around with them goes exactly against the strategic ideas of Mech play, so does the cyclone. After thinking a bit more about this one, this definitely has to go. Initially I thought they made the Starbow-version where you could pick up siege tanks, but when unloading them it was in Tank-mode. But the current version just reminds me of the old Starbow Reaver (that attacked instantly after being dropped out) where you can kite infinitely and the enemy never has any chance to kill it unless the terarn does a mistake. And unlike the Reaver, there is no micro related to dodging the or splitting vs the Scarab-projectile since tankshots are instantly. I think the ability to pick up siege tanks is still benefical as it gives mech player a counter opportuniy to blinding cloud, but it shouldn't drop off in siege mode. ravager being complete nonsense against anything that isn't in siege mode. I think projectile speed of the Ravagers attack might need a slight buff. But I feel this is more of a balance-issue as the overall concept definitely is really interesting. Also Terran and Protoss get even stronger longrange options (talking new carriers, ~13leash range cyclones, new tanks New carrier (and SH) is just another sign that Blizzard do not understand why Tempest and Swarm Hosts aren't funny --> It doesn't promote unit vs unit interactions. It's such a simple concept but Blizzard repediately makes an error of having units in the game where one player cannot attack the other players units. To me it sounds like the game is getting less positional/tactical and more about abusing the opponents composition. I think that if this new type of gameplay actually promoted fun, microintensive and back-and fourth game it would still be awesome. But that's not what's gonna happen. Instead, the defenders advantage has been reduced significantly, which will make comebacks a lot harder. Blizzard is in for a mess when trying to balance this. So far, I see 4 changes that I consider positive: - Banshee speed upgrade (but instead of increasing range, it shold set damage point at 0 so you can make a "moving shot") - Ravager, cool concept balance aside. - Staring with 12 workers --> Speed up boring parts of the game - The Herc --> Also a cool concept, though it's tough to say how it will end up working out. | ||
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