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If It wasn't for the nydus worm change, I feel like Zerg would have had (or possibly still did) get the short end of the stick.
Yes lurker is added, but they add it only after a super-easy early-game hard counter for it is in play for Terran, and pretty decent counter options for Protoss (it was never even a strong unit vs protoss). Also, lurker seems to be how it was in SC2, not BW (long range, anti-armored, and possibly high tech level), which makes things worse at least in my opinion (aren't the new roaches and existing ultralisks, and vipers anti-armored?)
On November 12 2014 08:45 TheDwf wrote:
I don't see much reason to be enthusiast for the new SH. First what is it exactly? A siege unit? With the introduction of the Lurker (assuming it ends up with 7-9 range) and the existence of the Brood lord (indirectly overnerfed in HotS, but it can be solved easily), Zerg already has siege units. Is it for harassment? How would it work with the increased time they want to implement between Locust waves? You pay for the unit, launch your Locusts then die to some attack because you have X supply of sitting ducks? Can't really tell without knowing what they exactly intend to do, but so far I am not thrilled. In the end the SH might not be needed at all, especially with its problematic Locust mechanic.
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I perhaps agree, but in my opinion Swarm Host has always been a garbage unit. At least this way they're trying something a bit different. It still seems like a dumb unit though, without any significant difference.
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@Immortal, adding more micro
How about this:
split its attack into two attacks since it has two cannons, the unit attacks two different targets.
If you focus fire one target and then another one fast afterwards, it will attack two different targets.
*1
*2
If the stars are the two cannons facing two units, 1,2.
The first cannon will fire target 1, the second cannon will fire target 2, if amoved.
No idea if this would work in practice or be fun.
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My thoughts:
I would like to see the Cyclone having to be in melee range or range 2 or 3 to lock onto a target and after it locked on, it can freely move again. This opens up micro defense for the opponent. (This is obviously not balance-related, just a unit idea)
Edit: Maybe have it unable to "unlock" from the target after locking on as well. How can you actually contact Blizzard to send them such suggestions?
I like that the Disruptor is a "Deathball" :D
Did anyone mention that at Start of HOTS, BC's were intended to have a speedboost ability? I fear they will remove the BC warp before LOTV comes out.
In Remax, the show run by Desrow, they talked about the Lurker and said that you could hold fire to stop your Lurkers until the right moment.
Marauders have two shots now instead of one, both shots do half damage.
Will the OP be edited to update with new information?
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On November 12 2014 14:45 Supersamu wrote:
My thoughts:
I would like to see the Cyclone having to be in melee range or range 2 or 3 to lock onto a target and after it locked on, it can freely move again. This opens up micro defense for the opponent. (This is obviously not balance-related, just a unit idea)
Edit: Maybe have it unable to "unlock" from the target after locking on as well. How can you actually contact Blizzard to send them such suggestions?
I like that the Disruptor is a "Deathball" :D
Did anyone mention that at Start of HOTS, BC's were intended to have a speedboost ability? I fear they will remove the BC warp before LOTV comes out.
In Remax, the show run by Desrow, they talked about the Lurker and said that you could hold fire to stop your Lurkers until the right moment.
Marauders have two shots now instead of one, both shots do half damage.
Will the OP be edited to update with new information?
Most direct way to talk to Blizz is to tweet at David Kim or the CMs.
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On November 12 2014 10:47 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 10:25 Bisu-Fan wrote:
So many changes... :o I guess a game like BW will never exist again huh?
Did BW bring any changes to existing units? if it didn't, how the heck was it so balanced almost first go?
*mind blown* Your mind got blown by the mere possibility of you being right? Should have checked Liquipedia first. Patch 1.04. Would have saved yourself a premature mind-blowulation over an idealized SC1 that never existed.
Also, lots of "imba" periods in BW, but with enough patience players always found a way without patches. SC2 players are just lazy and never want to solve their own problems.
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this is not a joke right? really they are giving us lurkers again? someone slap me
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On November 12 2014 13:14 Foxxan wrote:
@Immortal, adding more micro
How about this:
split its attack into two attacks since it has two cannons, the unit attacks two different targets.
If you focus fire one target and then another one fast afterwards, it will attack two different targets.
*1
*2
If the stars are the two cannons facing two units, 1,2.
The first cannon will fire target 1, the second cannon will fire target 2, if amoved.
No idea if this would work in practice or be fun.
Sounds interesting but it's annoying if you need to micro every shot to do double damage, always.
What would make this cool is if normally he shoots both cannons anyway one after the other, but you can prevent overkills with the micro, so he shoots one shot at the 1 HP zergling and the other shot quickly at something else
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Another thing we should push forward is a better highground advantage; in conjunction with a modification of the economy implementing major diminishing returns beyond the 8th worker (instead of the 16th as of now), this would further turn away the game from massive blobs of units ramming into each other. Of course it should only be done if the economy is reworked in this precise way, because 2b/3b camping does not need to become stronger without a significant compensation for the opposing side.
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On November 12 2014 09:26 DoubleReed wrote:
When I first saw the Disruptor I thought it was basically a Scarab without the Reaver. I realize now that I don't understand it at all.
It's so slow. The invincibility lasts so long (it has to because it's so slow). They need to make that unit way faster (maybe immobilize before it detonates or something to give you a chance to run). Hell, maybe just make it invincible anytime it's moving and it has to stop to detonate. Maybe they can keep it the way it is now, but give it a much larger speed boost while it's invincible.
But it should like zip around like the Oracle. Then it would be way more exciting. I don't even understand how the unit is supposed to work the way it is right now. No wonder the Protoss are bitching.
To me it looks like one of those units that is quite hard to master, which is great and we need more units like these.
In one of those exhibition matches, 2 Disruptors killed 19 workers, workers are just slow and you can't escape from them, only thing you can do is split.
I guess that it will be similar to the Shuttle-Reaver micro, you will have to have Warp Prism in your army and 2 Disruptors in it, and in direct engagement you will drop them near enemy units, cast purification nova, and put them back in the Warp Prism, it is a lot easier now when Warp Prism can pick up units at 4 range or something like that.
Those are obvious uses of the unit, I am sure we will see a lot more once Pros start experimenting with it.
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I fear LOTV will make the game even more unaccessible for new players. I think even existing players in the lower leagues now will start dropping out.
The game is already very fast, If 70% of the units have a spell, it gets even faster. I fear, this will turn into a pure apm battle. I want a strategy game, not a clicking-things-fast-game.
I'll wait and see, but my first thought was, "they killed it for me".
Let's hope I am wrong.
ps.: not getting in the IMBA (Cyklone and teleporting Carriers, really?!) discussion, it is still in alpha phase.
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Does anyone know how the Disruptor combines with the Warp Prism?
Hence, when I activate the Disruptor, can I load and unload it in a WP?
And when I can load it, does the explosion work around the Warp Prism similar to how autorepairing SCVs/Medics can heal/repair inside Medivacs?
I so hope it is the latter 
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as a long time crap player, more micro means more fun, cause for crap players like me the problem is macro and macro is boring. so i dont see how these changes will make game worse for new players, i think its better :p
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Northern Ireland280 Posts
On November 12 2014 18:40 TheDwf wrote:
Another thing we should push forward is a better highground advantage; in conjunction with a modification of the economy implementing major diminishing returns beyond the 8th worker (instead of the 16th as of now), this would further turn away the game from massive blobs of units ramming into each other. Of course it should only be done if the economy is reworked in this precise way, because 2b/3b camping does not need to become stronger without a significant compensation for the opposing side.
This for sure.. I think high ground advantage would be nice. As long as it wasn't overblown, it's hard enough to get up a ramp anyway sometimes :D
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Looks to me like they want to make the game progress faster with the eco/worker change.
Which is certainly a good thing... sc2 is kinda boring as it is.
Also terran getting a stealth tank that is not stealth is funny as well - more and more cnc influence.
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On November 12 2014 18:40 TheDwf wrote:
Another thing we should push forward is a better highground advantage; in conjunction with a modification of the economy implementing major diminishing returns beyond the 8th worker (instead of the 16th as of now), this would further turn away the game from massive blobs of units ramming into each other. Of course it should only be done if the economy is reworked in this precise way, because 2b/3b camping does not need to become stronger without a significant compensation for the opposing side.
What sort of highground advantage do you have in mind? % damage debuff?
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On November 12 2014 21:37 Technique wrote:
Looks to me like they want to make the game progress faster with the eco/worker change.
Which is certainly a good thing... sc2 is kinda boring as it is.
Also terran getting a stealth tank that is not stealth is funny as well - more and more cnc influence.
the only difference between a cyclone and a rockvee is that you don't have to load up a cyclone with missile defenders =p
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On November 12 2014 14:45 Supersamu wrote:
My thoughts:
I would like to see the Cyclone having to be in melee range or range 2 or 3 to lock onto a target and after it locked on, it can freely move again. This opens up micro defense for the opponent. (This is obviously not balance-related, just a unit idea)
Edit: Maybe have it unable to "unlock" from the target after locking on as well. How can you actually contact Blizzard to send them such suggestions?
I like that the Disruptor is a "Deathball" :D
Did anyone mention that at Start of HOTS, BC's were intended to have a speedboost ability? I fear they will remove the BC warp before LOTV comes out.
In Remax, the show run by Desrow, they talked about the Lurker and said that you could hold fire to stop your Lurkers until the right moment.
Marauders have two shots now instead of one, both shots do half damage.
Will the OP be edited to update with new information?
Thats an awful idea, ti will die before it can do any damage, the lock on ability is a great idea but it wasn't well implemented, just give it a somewhat normal range (5-6) a range fo 6-8 (maybe) after the lock and OK damage but make it so you have to re-lock every 2 or 3 shots that way you have to constantly re-lock your cyclone instead of locking once and then waiting fof the enemy to die, that way you have to have good control with your cyclone while at the same time giving the enemy chances to attack it, that it Works a Little bit like hellion vs zerglings, you have better range and good mobility but every time you try to attack it opens up a chance for the enemy to attack your units
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On November 12 2014 11:27 Xapti wrote:
If It wasn't for the nydus worm change, I feel like Zerg would have had (or possibly still did) get the short end of the stick.
Didn't you see it in the first showmatch, still insta-killed by workers?
It was invulnerable while appearing, but with workers already around it, it still died before letting anything out.
There's still work to be done to make it actually useful, but at least they're trying
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The cyclone could lose movement speed when they lock on target, this way as long as you micro back the targeted unit(s), other units can chase the cyclone(s) and force them to unlock and run away. Or you can just try to snipe it not microing back at all, but units like roaches, ultralisks and archons might not be able to.
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On November 12 2014 21:41 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 18:40 TheDwf wrote:
Another thing we should push forward is a better highground advantage; in conjunction with a modification of the economy implementing major diminishing returns beyond the 8th worker (instead of the 16th as of now), this would further turn away the game from massive blobs of units ramming into each other. Of course it should only be done if the economy is reworked in this precise way, because 2b/3b camping does not need to become stronger without a significant compensation for the opposing side. What sort of highground advantage do you have in mind? % damage debuff?
Yeah, something like 20-30% chances for ranged attacks to miss.
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EPT
