The Korean region is set for massive changes in 2015. Both GOMeXP and SpoTV will be running leagues for a total of six major tournaments in the year.
GOMeXP will hold three seasons of GSL with the tournament mostly unchanged from the existing Code A-Code S format. The prize money will be 100,000,000 won per tournament (down from 160,000,000 in 2014), with 40,000,000 won going to the winner. Players will be awarded an unspecified amount of WCS points.
SpoTV Games will hold three tournaments as well, with each tournament awarding 75,000,000 in total prize money (40,000,000 won to the winner). SpoTV's tournaments will be sixteen player tournaments and will award WCS points as well.
There are no region restrictions on GSL and or SpoTV tournaments, with players from any region able to compete.
Additionally, Blizzard has announced that outside GSL and SpoTV's "regular" tournaments, there will be several more WCS-point giving tournaments held in Korea.
Excellent news! I also like how the prize money will likely end up being more spread out next year with this format, looks like a huge win for the korean scene!
#notdedgeam It'll be nice to see koreans play in multiple leagues and see the talent spread out more. And since there's no region lock, maybe some brave foreigners too?
On October 31 2014 12:23 Waxangel wrote: "There are no region restrictions on GSL and or SpoTV tournaments, with players from any region able to compete."
great, great news, even if the reduction in GSL prize money means that the overall prize pool for korean individual tournaments will only go up 45,000 won despite double the tournaments
Now they just need to announce rebroadcasts xD . Not the development I would have hoped to see, but nothing to complain about as its super good for Korea and will be interesting to observe.
Cool that SpoTV is investing way more into Starcraft hopefully in addition to their usual Proleague stuff. I wish Ongamenet would come back with the OSL, but alas, their too invested in LoL.
Ha the non-region lock naturally makes sense. If even one foreigner gets to a ro16 in code S, or the equivalent in the other tournies, it'll be a huge story. Sadly, however, that's been a possibility this whole time and hasn't happened since Naniwa or HuK way long ago (iirc). But with more tournaments, I guess it's slightly more possible.
Wonderfull news! Two leagues + event tournaments in korea and region lock for WCS eu\am will prob. give a better mix of foreigners\koreans for blizzcon15 and the scene in general!
It's good to see more tournaments in Korea, but a what cost? :/
I'm not sure that decrease GSL prizepool to make more individual tournaments will be the best decision.
1 big tournament > 2 normal tournamets
Basically i think that is better stay with one big&glorious individual tournament bye GOMeXP than this "split". (and of course also one big&glorious team league on SpoTV)
Btw very happy for more Blizzard's contribute in KR scene.
To me it sounds like the two major leagues still want to offer the best in the World a chance to prove themselves. (Also I bet all of the Koreans feel confident that wont hurt their chances at all to allow foreigners to try the qualifiers.)
On October 31 2014 12:48 Yelloooooooow wrote: It's good to see more tournaments in Korea, but a what cost? :/
I'm not sure that decrease GSL prizepool to make more individual tournaments will be the best decision.
1 big tournament > 2 normal tournamets
Basically i think that is better stay with one big&glorious individual tournament bye GOMeXP than this "split". (and of course also one big&glorious team league on SpoTV)
Btw very happy for more Blizzard's contribute in KR scene.
This is more like 1 big tournament with slightly less prize money and 1 normal tournament with high prestige and prize money than 2 normal tournaments.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Foreigners will be much better off in WCS, for WCS AM and EU. Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
It might not be as bad as you think since with more opportunities in KR, less KR players will travel. Proleague will be going on too, and the non Proleague KR teams(other than axiom) are all dead now.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Foreigners will be much better off in WCS, for WCS AM and EU. Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
It might not be as bad as you think since with more opportunities in KR, less KR players will travel. Proleague will be going on too, and the non Proleague KR teams(other than axiom) are all dead now.
Oh, I agree, foreigners really haven't proven themselves worthy of Blizzcon. This helps even it up a little for the koreans who can't get out of korea much. And hopefully kespa teams learn from the fact that so many koreans are going to foreign teams and try and send there players around more.
On October 31 2014 12:48 Yelloooooooow wrote: It's good to see more tournaments in Korea, but a what cost? :/
I'm not sure that decrease GSL prizepool to make more individual tournaments will be the best decision.
1 big tournament > 2 normal tournamets
Basically i think that is better stay with one big&glorious individual tournament bye GOMeXP than this "split". (and of course also one big&glorious team league on SpoTV)
Btw very happy for more Blizzard's contribute in KR scene.
This is more like 1 big tournament with slightly less prize money and 1 normal tournament with high prestige and prize money than 2 normal tournaments.
Yes, you are right, what I meant was that I prefer that they have focused their energies on one tournament and make it the most prestigious possible.
On October 31 2014 12:56 stuchiu wrote: The prize pool distribution was dumb to me anyways. I like this better.
Yeah, totally agree. And this now make me think about this "split" on individual leagues. Gap beetwen 1st and 2nd place was too big then, probably, this is the right decision.
EDIT: Also more WCS Points in Korea sounds good and fair, they deserve them.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Bear in mind that we don't know how many points these tournaments are getting. I like this solution a lot, personally. Adding more tournaments to the scene to create in Korea a scene filled in peripheral tournaments similar to overseas is the best solution to guarantee a fair distribution of points (adding more points to the GSL as people suggested before is by far an inferior solution). The fact that foreigners won't be better off isn't a bad thing. Region-lock will allow the foreign scene to develop hopefully, and whether they do better in WCS depends on them.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
They're not decreasing the number of the tournaments going on outside of korea. It's just more fair to those extremely skilled players who never left korea (think Rain)
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
They're not decreasing the number of the tournaments going on outside of korea. It's just more fair to those extremely skilled players who never left korea (think Rain)
That's exactly what I'm saying. I think this is a great thing for that reason!
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
They're not decreasing the number of the tournaments going on outside of korea. It's just more fair to those extremely skilled players who never left korea (think Rain)
That's exactly what I'm saying. I think this is a great thing for that reason!
Oh, I thought you sounded worried about foreigners
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
They're not decreasing the number of the tournaments going on outside of korea. It's just more fair to those extremely skilled players who never left korea (think Rain)
That's exactly what I'm saying. I think this is a great thing for that reason!
Oh, I thought you sounded worried about foreigners
Which foreigner deserves to go? Snute and Scarlett aren't good or consistant enough, Bunny is too fresh, and there's basically no one else
On October 31 2014 13:05 Caihead wrote: Is this more Kespa cups, or more OSL?
In what way? In terms of production it will be like Kespa cup since the same people are running this that did kespa cup, in terms of length of season it probably won't last as long as OSL/GSL normally do since it's only 16 players. They might stretch out qualifiers and broadcast them or something to increase season length, or just show a few matches a week.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
They're not decreasing the number of the tournaments going on outside of korea. It's just more fair to those extremely skilled players who never left korea (think Rain)
That's exactly what I'm saying. I think this is a great thing for that reason!
Oh, I thought you sounded worried about foreigners
Which foreigner deserves to go? Snute and Scarlett aren't good or consistant enough, Bunny is too fresh, and there's basically no one else
They should build a monument to Sen for saving the foreigners from another all kill this year.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Just because you want to see them there doesn't mean they deserve to go. Blizzcon is for the most skilled players, It's not a form of WCG.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
They're not decreasing the number of the tournaments going on outside of korea. It's just more fair to those extremely skilled players who never left korea (think Rain)
That's exactly what I'm saying. I think this is a great thing for that reason!
Oh, I thought you sounded worried about foreigners
Which foreigner deserves to go? Snute and Scarlett aren't good or consistant enough, Bunny is too fresh, and there's basically no one else
They should build a monument to Sen for saving the foreigners from another all kill this year.
For sure, but even his premier wasn't THAT impressive. And as far as white people go... better luck next year.
Not that anybody from outside Korea is actually good/willing enough to forego a spot in WCS America/Europe and attempt to break GSL or the Korean scene in general, but isn't it a bit unfair that WCS EU and NA are region locked and KR isn't?
On October 31 2014 13:11 Evil_Sheep wrote: I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Legit point of view, but personally I prefer to see the best of best. :D
On October 31 2014 13:16 Clbull wrote: Not that anybody from outside Korea is actually good/willing enough to forego a spot in WCS America/Europe and attempt to break GSL or the Korean scene in general, but isn't it a bit unfair that WCS EU and NA are region locked and KR isn't?
KR wants foreigners to try to come compete because it boosts their popularity. I'm not surprised at this decision. Is it unfair that WCS AM and EU are region locked? A lot of people think yes.
On October 31 2014 13:17 Shinespark wrote: Oh god, that's like a 40% decrease in prize money in the GSL. Plus the last 4 (?) finals were held at the studio. This is very bad.
This was also my first reaction but if you think about (too) big gap beetwen 1st and 2nd place prize in GSL 2014 format and that they need more WCS Points cause region lock on EU and NA maybe this decision could be right.
On October 31 2014 13:16 Clbull wrote: Not that anybody from outside Korea is actually good/willing enough to forego a spot in WCS America/Europe and attempt to break GSL or the Korean scene in general, but isn't it a bit unfair that WCS EU and NA are region locked and KR isn't?
Since everything is in studio, KR is de facto region locked anyways. Plus KR wants the foreigners to try.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
The World Cup analogy gets brought up constantly but people forget that this is EXACTLY what Blizzard did in 2012--they had tournaments all over the world and ended up with a "Global Finals" that was mostly foreigners. And the result was that no one paid any attention to the non-Korean tournaments (except a little to Europe) and with a few isolated exceptions the foreigners got destroyed by the Korean minority at the Global Finals anyway. So what exactly does that accomplish?
Anyway, I'm happy there will be more tournaments in Korea though it's sad that after making a big deal about raising GSL prize pool in 2014 it's going back down in 2015. I also wonder what the SpoTV tournaments will be like; "sixteen player tournament" kind of sounds more like a weekend tournament in the vein of IEM or DreamHack than a real "league" like GSL.
What does the article mean by the "previous Code A - Code S format?" We're going back to 2013 GSL where there are Up and Down? 2012 where you can win and be king of Code A?
On October 31 2014 12:24 myxoma_strain wrote: Well, the region lock technically applies since you'd have to be able to be at the studio whenever your match is...
Which is why there is no Blizzard region lock. This is exciting news for Korea, which has been heavily over saturated for the past couple of years. I wonder if "foreign" players can compete in GSL or SpoTV, as well as in their respective WCS regions. It'd take an absurd amount of skill and some may say not fair, but since it is such a difficult feat to achieve it would be rather interesting to let this happen.
On October 31 2014 13:17 Shinespark wrote: Oh god, that's like a 40% decrease in prize money in the GSL. Plus the last 4 (?) finals were held at the studio. This is very bad.
This was also my first reaction but if you think about (too) big gap beetwen 1st and 2nd place prize and that they need more WCS Points cause region lock on EU and NA maybe this decision could be right.
combined this creates more prize pool for the KR scene in general. Also the 1st place winner got a large amount of the money anyway so this is a better way to distribute the money. In addition, Blizzard announced that there will be more tournaments in Korea, and its good to give the korean scene more money to support themselves on.
If there is enough tournaments in korea, there will be a few very very strong foreigners that will travel to Korea and participate in those tournaments, creating higher level foreigners as well. (and not to mention, we love foreigners that participate in the GSL etc)
And for those that argue that next year Korea will just dominate Blizzcon 2015, I think thats fine. We have an all korean lineup this year and it is still going to be incredibly epic. Honestly I still think foreigners have a good chance of having one or 2 slots in blizzcon like this year. (snute, scarlett, bunny narrowly missed it)
On October 31 2014 13:24 geokilla wrote: Which is why there is no Blizzard region lock. This is exciting news for Korea, which has been heavily over saturated for the past couple of years. I wonder if "foreign" players can compete in GSL or SpoTV, as well as in their respective WCS regions. It'd take an absurd amount of skill and some may say not fair, but since it is such a difficult feat to achieve it would be rather interesting to let this happen.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Just because you want to see them there doesn't mean they deserve to go. Blizzcon is for the most skilled players, It's not a form of WCG.
I think it adds value to have global representation for a global audience, it's not just about having the most skilled players. I think Blizzcon misses out a lot to have some of the biggest names in the foreign scene missing from the biggest tournament of the year like Snute, Scarlett, Bunny, etc. The World Cup derives a lot of value from having a diversity of countries from every continent even if they are not objectively the strongest ones, and it is the biggest sporting event in the world. Like the World Cup, there's room to have a competition that still crowns the best and most skillful, while still being inclusive to a diversity of countries.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Just because you want to see them there doesn't mean they deserve to go. Blizzcon is for the most skilled players, It's not a form of WCG.
I think it adds value to have global representation for a global audience, it's not just about having the most skilled players. I think Blizzcon misses out a lot to have some of the biggest names in the foreign scene missing from the biggest tournament of the year like Snute, Scarlett, Bunny, etc. The World Cup derives a lot of value from having a diversity of countries from every continent even if they are not objectively the strongest ones, and it is the biggest sporting event in the world. Like the World Cup, there's room to have a competition that still crowns the best and most skillful, while still being inclusive to a diversity of countries.
What's the point though if they're just going to get stomp round 1 though?
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Just because you want to see them there doesn't mean they deserve to go. Blizzcon is for the most skilled players, It's not a form of WCG.
I think it adds value to have global representation for a global audience, it's not just about having the most skilled players. I think Blizzcon misses out a lot to have some of the biggest names in the foreign scene missing from the biggest tournament of the year like Snute, Scarlett, Bunny, etc. The World Cup derives a lot of value from having a diversity of countries from every continent even if they are not objectively the strongest ones, and it is the biggest sporting event in the world. Like the World Cup, there's room to have a competition that still crowns the best and most skillful, while still being inclusive to a diversity of countries.
Ok yes there is value, but you quoted my post saying " they don't deserve it " saying you disagree, then you listed a bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with them deserving it.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Just because you want to see them there doesn't mean they deserve to go. Blizzcon is for the most skilled players, It's not a form of WCG.
I think it adds value to have global representation for a global audience, it's not just about having the most skilled players. I think Blizzcon misses out a lot to have some of the biggest names in the foreign scene missing from the biggest tournament of the year like Snute, Scarlett, Bunny, etc. The World Cup derives a lot of value from having a diversity of countries from every continent even if they are not objectively the strongest ones, and it is the biggest sporting event in the world. Like the World Cup, there's room to have a competition that still crowns the best and most skillful, while still being inclusive to a diversity of countries.
What's the point though if they're just going to get stomp round 1 though?
Foreigners = more hype more hype = more viewers. Even if they get stomped first round, the prospect of having a foreigner that participated in blizzcon, I think, is enough. Lets pretend that Scarlett/Bunny/Snute made Blizzcon. I think we can safely assume that many people in the crowd/chat/forums will be hyped up about their participation. We can see this in Red Bull when Scarlett let those banelings go on habitation station etc
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Just because you want to see them there doesn't mean they deserve to go. Blizzcon is for the most skilled players, It's not a form of WCG.
I think it adds value to have global representation for a global audience, it's not just about having the most skilled players. I think Blizzcon misses out a lot to have some of the biggest names in the foreign scene missing from the biggest tournament of the year like Snute, Scarlett, Bunny, etc. The World Cup derives a lot of value from having a diversity of countries from every continent even if they are not objectively the strongest ones, and it is the biggest sporting event in the world. Like the World Cup, there's room to have a competition that still crowns the best and most skillful, while still being inclusive to a diversity of countries.
What's the point though if they're just going to get stomp round 1 though?
Foreigners = more hype more hype = more viewers. Even if they get stomped first round, the prospect of having a foreigner that participated in blizzcon, I think, is enough. Lets pretend that Scarlett/Bunny/Snute made Blizzcon. I think we can safely assume that many people in the crowd/chat/forums will be hyped up about their participation. We can see this in Red Bull when Scarlett let those banelings go on habitation station etc
so foreigners = viewers? i guess that's why tournaments specifically put together to showcase the best foreign talent and pit them against koreans have been so MASSIVELY successful and celebrated, right? you're making the common mistake of "i would watch for foreigners, therefore a commercially viable majority of people must obviously think the same way i think"
and none of these arguments explains why blizzcon should have foreigners... like someone pointed out its not meant to be an international cup to represent nations, its a finals for the top tournament performers of the year as defined by the wcs system. you can debate whether MC and Hyun fit the spirit of the event (i personally do since they've made a huge impact on the scene though their travel and performance) but there is no argument that blizzcon was conceived of or I'd obligated to function as a charity for substandard players. people bitch that mc/hyun aren't "good enough" but at least they accrued points legitimately using the system available to them. foreigners can't win shit with or without flawed wcs point distribution so why throw them into tournaments for free? if your claims that it would create hype and esports dollars were correct then the community would have already proven it
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Just because you want to see them there doesn't mean they deserve to go. Blizzcon is for the most skilled players, It's not a form of WCG.
I think it adds value to have global representation for a global audience, it's not just about having the most skilled players. I think Blizzcon misses out a lot to have some of the biggest names in the foreign scene missing from the biggest tournament of the year like Snute, Scarlett, Bunny, etc. The World Cup derives a lot of value from having a diversity of countries from every continent even if they are not objectively the strongest ones, and it is the biggest sporting event in the world. Like the World Cup, there's room to have a competition that still crowns the best and most skillful, while still being inclusive to a diversity of countries.
Ok yes there is value, but you quoted my post saying " they don't deserve it " saying you disagree, then you listed a bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with them deserving it.
The reasons I mentioned have everything to do with why they deserve it. They add value to the tournament and to the SC2 esports scene. That is the point. Sports/esports are not about scoring points or winning or losing. They are simply a form of entertainment. If your audience are entertained and interested, you've succeeded, and if not, you've failed.
As long as Blizzcon is 100% korean, I don't see how it or the SC2 esports scene is ever supposed to grow and appeal beyond a hardcore fanbase like here on TL.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Just because you want to see them there doesn't mean they deserve to go. Blizzcon is for the most skilled players, It's not a form of WCG.
I think it adds value to have global representation for a global audience, it's not just about having the most skilled players. I think Blizzcon misses out a lot to have some of the biggest names in the foreign scene missing from the biggest tournament of the year like Snute, Scarlett, Bunny, etc. The World Cup derives a lot of value from having a diversity of countries from every continent even if they are not objectively the strongest ones, and it is the biggest sporting event in the world. Like the World Cup, there's room to have a competition that still crowns the best and most skillful, while still being inclusive to a diversity of countries.
Ok yes there is value, but you quoted my post saying " they don't deserve it " saying you disagree, then you listed a bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with them deserving it.
The reasons I mentioned have everything to do with why they deserve it. They add value to the tournament and to the SC2 esports scene. That is the point. Sports/esports are not about scoring points or winning or losing. They are simply a form of entertainment. If your audience are entertained and interested, you've succeeded, and if not, you've failed.
As long as Blizzcon is 100% korean, I don't see how it or the SC2 esports scene is ever supposed to grow and appeal beyond a hardcore fanbase like here on TL.
Well for me It's about the competition so we fundamentally disagree.
On October 31 2014 12:21 Waxangel wrote: There are no region restrictions on GSL and or SpoTV tournaments, with players from any region able to compete.
This is a weird statement. Korean tournaments have always had inherent region lock by forcing players to take up residence in Korea for an extended period of time, due to their offline nature at all stages (qualifiers, dual tournament/Code A, main tournament/Code S).
I guess this is more to let international players know that they're still welcome to come to Korea and take part? In comparison, NA/EU need some sort of proof of residency, right?
Why bother with SC2 at all. We should just cage Naniwa, Idra, Stephano and Nerchio in a cage and have them fight with bananas while CatzPajamas commentates outside the thunderdome.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Just because you want to see them there doesn't mean they deserve to go. Blizzcon is for the most skilled players, It's not a form of WCG.
I think it adds value to have global representation for a global audience, it's not just about having the most skilled players. I think Blizzcon misses out a lot to have some of the biggest names in the foreign scene missing from the biggest tournament of the year like Snute, Scarlett, Bunny, etc. The World Cup derives a lot of value from having a diversity of countries from every continent even if they are not objectively the strongest ones, and it is the biggest sporting event in the world. Like the World Cup, there's room to have a competition that still crowns the best and most skillful, while still being inclusive to a diversity of countries.
Ok yes there is value, but you quoted my post saying " they don't deserve it " saying you disagree, then you listed a bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with them deserving it.
The reasons I mentioned have everything to do with why they deserve it. They add value to the tournament and to the SC2 esports scene. That is the point. Sports/esports are not about scoring points or winning or losing. They are simply a form of entertainment. If your audience are entertained and interested, you've succeeded, and if not, you've failed.
As long as Blizzcon is 100% korean, I don't see how it or the SC2 esports scene is ever supposed to grow and appeal beyond a hardcore fanbase like here on TL.
yet another person incapable of believing that anyone could think differently or not be blindly hyped by foreign presence. you're just saying things that you want to be true as if they're fact. if the community wanted foreigners vs Koreans or to watch more foreigners in general then the viewers would demonstrate that. shoutcraft was a failure and every other foreign oriented tournament has ranged from shitty to gimmicky to forgettable
i love foreigners but there is no point in watching them lose 100% to far better players. it's not hype with zero chance. naniwa was hype because he actually had a chance which he proved by winning games, not by whining about his nationality and asking for handouts. scarlett and snute cause moderate hype for the same reason. but if they can't rack up the points or take home trophies they don't belong at elite competitions
On October 31 2014 13:56 stuchiu wrote: Why bother with SC2 at all. We should just cage Naniwa, Idra, Stephano and Nerchio in a cage and have them fight with bananas while CatzPajamas commentates outside the thunderdome.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
Just because you want to see them there doesn't mean they deserve to go. Blizzcon is for the most skilled players, It's not a form of WCG.
I think it adds value to have global representation for a global audience, it's not just about having the most skilled players. I think Blizzcon misses out a lot to have some of the biggest names in the foreign scene missing from the biggest tournament of the year like Snute, Scarlett, Bunny, etc. The World Cup derives a lot of value from having a diversity of countries from every continent even if they are not objectively the strongest ones, and it is the biggest sporting event in the world. Like the World Cup, there's room to have a competition that still crowns the best and most skillful, while still being inclusive to a diversity of countries.
What's the point though if they're just going to get stomp round 1 though?
Foreigners = more hype more hype = more viewers. Even if they get stomped first round, the prospect of having a foreigner that participated in blizzcon, I think, is enough. Lets pretend that Scarlett/Bunny/Snute made Blizzcon. I think we can safely assume that many people in the crowd/chat/forums will be hyped up about their participation. We can see this in Red Bull when Scarlett let those banelings go on habitation station etc
so foreigners = viewers? i guess that's why tournaments specifically put together to showcase the best foreign talent and pit them against koreans have been so MASSIVELY successful and celebrated, right? you're making the common mistake of "i would watch for foreigners, therefore a commercially viable majority of people must obviously think the same way i think"
and none of these arguments explains why blizzcon should have foreigners... like someone pointed out its not meant to be an international cup to represent nations, its a finals for the top tournament performers of the year as defined by the wcs system. you can debate whether MC and Hyun fit the spirit of the event (i personally do since they've made a huge impact on the scene though their travel and performance) but there is no argument that blizzcon was conceived of or I'd obligated to function as a charity for substandard players. people bitch that mc/hyun aren't "good enough" but at least they accrued points legitimately using the system available to them. foreigners can't win shit with or without flawed wcs point distribution so why throw them into tournaments for free? if your claims that it would create hype and esports dollars were correct then the community would have already proven it
I'm with you on the foreigners issue, but I'd rather see 12 KR players and 4 legitimate foreigners who get knocked out in 3-0 and 3-1 sweeps than the situation we have now, which is 16 Koreans, but about half of them would shrivel up and die if placed in a room with Maru, Rain, or soO. It'll get more foreign fans watching and it'll lead to a more fair skill distribution overall.
On October 31 2014 14:20 Shinespark wrote: Besides the prize pool of the GSL drastically dropping, the last 4 finals have been held in the studio. This is terrible news.
Why? It makes sense to hold them in the studio because booking event venues that would end up 50% empty was ridiculous. Better to have full studios than half-empty audience halls.
Yes, the prize pool for GSL is decreasing, but the prize pool for Korean individual tournaments (adding together the SpoTV and GSL tournaments) is higher. And we'll have Proleague again, and possibly another KeSPA Cup and GSL Global Tournament and there's still Hot6ix Cup this year... it actually seems like SC2 is slowly growing in Korea instead of slowly shrinking as it was for years.
Omg they did it, the world is now officialy saved. Very nice to see, hopefully it will restore the KR/NA/EU WCS points balance and will allow us to see something else than 8 foreigners getting trashed by 8 Koreans at next Blizzcon. I'm curious as to what will happen to WCS points for PL though, they seem kinda unnecessary now
On October 31 2014 15:26 neptunusfisk wrote: This is so good. Soo good.
2011? A hundred GSLs. 2012? Five. 2013? Three + OSL. 2014. Three. 2015. OMG YES
I think this is more rappresentative for Korean scene:
2011? 1,214,270$ in prizepool from 10 events 2012? 955,090$ in prizepool from 8 events 2013? 762,558$* in prizepool from 6 events (*150,000$ from WCS 2013 Season 1 Global Finals) 2014? 640,604$ in prizepool from 6 events 2015? For now492,000$* in prizepool from 6 tournaments officially announced in top of this thread.
*Without this:
On October 31 2014 12:21 Waxangel wrote: Additionally, Blizzard has announced that outside GSL and SpoTV's "regular" tournaments, there will be several more WCS-point giving tournaments held in Korea.
Foreigners have been using their mouths only for crying and complaining (except few...) something is imba,this is imba, I don't play... So for me as a viewer I don't wanna look on the bored guy stage with mindset like "Korean will kick from tourney anyway why should I even care.." This is what bothers me the most since NaNiWa times.. yes he was an "********* and *********" and a lot more bad words comes to my mouth regarding to his attitude, BUT he actually loved to destroy Koreans, like completely crush them and that's what disappeared after his retirement
So for me I would rather watch full Korean BlizzCons with good games or more foreigners working like 10x harder then they do now (or experiment with different practice environments)
@Prizepool I can understand that peeps are usually younger aged here and they have no responsibility when it comes to bills, salaries etc. so decreased prizepool which brought second tournament and secured great casters in two languages,good studio, catering and seats for ppl and it's still a lot of money. Don't forget that gamers are making a lot more money than a alot of ppl who works all day...
Overall I like this idea, but I would like to see if studios and stuff were more transparent so we should filter those stupid posts like "prizemoney is lover omg dead gaem..."
Well, lower prize pool but it's better than nothing. I was hoping for Code A to become a clone of Code S in terms of the format, just with lower payout (yet still better than it's now...).
On October 31 2014 16:35 Zax19 wrote: Well, lower prize pool but it's better than nothing. I was hoping for Code A to become a clone of Code S in terms of the format, just with lower payout (yet still better than it's now...).
I would reform this, because since mental state of current population of gamers Code A looks like a trash if in eyes of alot of ppl.. but actually it is already good result to achieve Code A ^^.. So I would like to see smthing like Battle for Code S name or something which sounds more like an tournament for a spot in Code S
This isn't true at all. The more distributed the money is the more sustainable it is.
And besides, there is an overall increase in prize money for next year anyway.
Also if there's just one tournament, it kind of sucks when a player has one bad day and then you don't see them in an individual tournament again for like 3 months.
Great news . I think the next 2 years will be so sick for sc2!
I still think the prize money distribution is way too top heavy in Korea, especially in the SpotTV league in this case. But I guess that's their thing.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
I also wonder what the SpoTV tournaments will be like; "sixteen player tournament" kind of sounds more like a weekend tournament in the vein of IEM or DreamHack than a real "league" like GSL.
I hope this isn't the case. The whole point of a league is that is goes on for a while and supports double the players competing.
The article describes a separate league to run alongside GSL. Hopefully it means what it says and it's not just weekend tourney a la KeSPA Cup.
On October 31 2014 12:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So with these tournaments all going now, it seems less likely that foreigners will be much better off in WCS... this is a lot of points to Korea.
Most foreigners don't deserve to go to Blizzcon anyway.
I disagree, I personally think it sucks that all the players at Blizzcon are from the same country when most of the audience is not from that country. It would be just like if the World Cup was all teams from EU and South America cuz they are the best. Well there's more to it than that IMO.
I also wonder what the SpoTV tournaments will be like; "sixteen player tournament" kind of sounds more like a weekend tournament in the vein of IEM or DreamHack than a real "league" like GSL.
I hope this isn't the case. The whole point of a league is that is goes on for a while and supports double the players competing.
The article describes a separate league to run alongside GSL. Hopefully it means what it says and it's not just weekend tourney a la KeSPA Cup.
They separately mention those additional weekend tournament don't they?
On October 31 2014 18:25 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Everybody is so happy but there's a huge prizepool reduction in GSL . I hope the new tournaments can compensate but we'll have to wait and see...
Prizepool size is the least of the problems the Korean scene faces. There are way too many good players and not enough opportunities for them to compete in. So anything that increases the amount of tournaments has got my vote.
On October 31 2014 18:25 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Everybody is so happy but there's a huge prizepool reduction in GSL . I hope the new tournaments can compensate but we'll have to wait and see...
I'd take 3100K GSLs over 3160K GSLs anytime if that means 3 more touraments with 75k.
It's 45K more overall and the money gets spread better, plus more chances for players, more streams, more views, more WCS points etc...
FOR NOW, I still don't know if it is really a good news.
This year we had also 6 tournaments for a total of more than $640.000.
For now on the base of this announcement we still have 6 tournaments but with only around $500.000 cash prize with still the same large % awarded to 1st place (but well that how Korean leagues always worked even on BW. For them only 1st matters).
The REAL DEALS are imo 2 main things:
- WILL WE HAVE REAL FINALS STAGES AGAIN??? This is imo the most important because real cowds = real popularity of Sc2 in Korea and = more salaries for ALL Korean players. Look at LoL Korean leagues, the cash prize is pretty low for a team game but the crowds are massive and salaries is what matters.
- How many additional tournaments will we have? How much cash prize? How many WCS points? Will PL return to the usual cah prize we had before the last one (was divided by almost two)? WCS points for PL (I really hope).
Well for now THIS announcement is notthing to be too much exited. Wait for more and then cheer
For "reagion lock/open" it doesn't chage sh**, even if it was open to anyone playing from any server no foreigner (maybe except Snute and Scarlett) will even TRY to compete there, and if they do there is 90% chances they will never qualify. This should not even be a question to discuss.
On October 31 2014 12:23 isaachukfan wrote: Excellent news! I also like how the prize money will likely end up being more spread out next year with this format, looks like a huge win for the korean scene!
korea was the heart of high lvl competition during SC2s best days. Good to see they are going back to this. And with Riot fuckin up korean LoL atm, there might be room to grow in for korean SC2 again.
On October 31 2014 18:25 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Everybody is so happy but there's a huge prizepool reduction in GSL . I hope the new tournaments can compensate but we'll have to wait and see...
I'd take 3100K GSLs over 3160K GSLs anytime if that means 3 more touraments with 75k.
It's 45K more overall and the money gets spread better, plus more chances for players, more streams, more views, more WCS points etc...
But if soO finally wins one now he'll only get half the money
It is region locked at a certain lvl, because you allways have to be in Korea to play in the studio after the quallification: While in WCS EU and AM Challanger and at least Round of 32 ( maybe Round of 16 too ) are online, you have to be in the Gom Studios for Code A and whole Code S. And also you will have to be at the Esports Stadion for the SpoTv games. So yeah, it is not region locked by itself, you have to be in korea for a long time meaning you need your visa still --> region lock.
On October 31 2014 19:01 StatixEx wrote: "There are no region restrictions on GSL and or SpoTV tournaments, with players from any region able to compete."
This is awesome, 6 premier tournaments per year in Korea + bonus tournaments will go a long way towards stabilizing the scene and perhaps encourage a wave of newcomers to try their luck.
This is great news. I got one question. Will the players who will play in WCS EU/AM be able to play in these leagues aswell alongside those tourneys? Or are they locked out of it?
e.. I know it's kind of dumb question but my brain has stopped working properly from all the excitment and hypuu
On October 31 2014 19:43 REyeM wrote: This is great news. I got one question. Will the players who will play in WCS EU/AM be able to play in these leagues aswell alongside those tourneys? Or are they locked out of it?
My guess is that foreigners living in korea could play in the qualifiers if they wanted
Llewellys explained a week ago that when Stephano participated in Blizzard Cup in 2011, he needed to get a working visa first. So yes, Korea is region-locked. This plus the fact that from the very beginning, even qualifiers, you have to be physically in Seoul.
Anyway, great news for the KR scene, that's something we've wanted all year long when discussing WCS system problems. Good luck SPOTV, I hope your league will be successful !
Seems to me that foreign tournaments will suffer in quality because Koreans wont have time to travel.On the other hand its always good to see the best of the best playing more tournaments together.
On October 31 2014 18:42 digmouse wrote: Proleague early info is out too, starts late December and will run for ten(!) months, ST/YoeFW replaces IM.
OMG ten months of pro league. I guess SPOTV is really stepping up their game. Wow, PL is by far my favorite tournament
Yes. I'm not a fan of winners format - that's why I'm not fan of pretty much every other team league (like Acer's TeamStory Cup would be a lot more interesting if one player couldn't carry the team).
On October 31 2014 19:17 Darkhorse wrote: I bet tons of foreigners will go to Korea now. Especially the ROOT guys because Catz knows they are just as good as Koreans
On October 31 2014 18:42 digmouse wrote: Proleague early info is out too, starts late December and will run for ten(!) months, ST/YoeFW replaces IM.
OMG ten months of pro league. I guess SPOTV is really stepping up their game. Wow, PL is by far my favorite tournament
Yes. I'm not a fan of winners format - that's why I'm not fan of pretty much every other team league (like Acer's TeamStory Cup would be a lot more interesting if one player couldn't carry the team).
On October 31 2014 20:01 -Celestial- wrote: So no news on any potential returns for the GSTL then?
Booo...another year without a highest level all all-kill tournament to watch.
Yeah those are really fun. It was so awesome to watch sOs almost all-kill KHAN with just DT builds oh sOs..
But not to worry guys! I'm sure with SPL being extended to 10 months, they will add some all-kill rounds aswell!
It specifies that there's no region lock in Korea. However, it doesn't say whether or not you are allowed to compete in both WCS EU/AM and also compete in GSL which is also another WCS event. Any information regarding this? Are you allowed to participate in both? Otherwise this is no different from last year.
The only chance a foreigner would try their luck in a Korean tournament would be if they were allowed to do so while also competing in WCS NA/EU. Then again, if foreigners were allowed to do that, it would be wrong to not allow koreans to do the same.
So basically nothing is different from last year, when it comes to the region lock thingy. I miss the time when foreigners would try their luck in GSL. It was the most hyped and most interesting thing in the sc2 scene. How many of us didn't stay up/go up early to watch Jinro, NaNiwa etc in the GSL? I wonder if WCS/blizzard will ever figure out how to bring that back.
On October 31 2014 20:47 sd_andeh wrote: It specifies that there's no region lock in Korea. However, it doesn't say whether or not you are allowed to compete in both WCS EU/AM and also compete in GSL which is also another WCS event. Any information regarding this? Are you allowed to participate in both? Otherwise this is no different from last year.
The only chance a foreigner would try their luck in a Korean tournament would be if they were allowed to do so while also competing in WCS NA/EU. Then again, if foreigners were allowed to do that, it would be wrong to not allow koreans to do the same.
So basically nothing is different from last year, when it comes to the region lock thingy. I miss the time when foreigners would try their luck in GSL. It was the most hyped and most interesting thing in the sc2 scene. How many of us didn't stay up/go up early to watch Jinro, NaNiwa etc in the GSL? I wonder if WCS/blizzard will ever figure out how to bring that back.
I guarantee that you wouldn't be able to compete in both. Imagine if a player found a way to win two seasons at once.
On October 31 2014 20:47 sd_andeh wrote: It specifies that there's no region lock in Korea. However, it doesn't say whether or not you are allowed to compete in both WCS EU/AM and also compete in GSL which is also another WCS event. Any information regarding this? Are you allowed to participate in both? Otherwise this is no different from last year.
The only chance a foreigner would try their luck in a Korean tournament would be if they were allowed to do so while also competing in WCS NA/EU. Then again, if foreigners were allowed to do that, it would be wrong to not allow koreans to do the same.
So basically nothing is different from last year, when it comes to the region lock thingy. I miss the time when foreigners would try their luck in GSL. It was the most hyped and most interesting thing in the sc2 scene. How many of us didn't stay up/go up early to watch Jinro, NaNiwa etc in the GSL? I wonder if WCS/blizzard will ever figure out how to bring that back.
I guarantee that you wouldn't be able to compete in both. Imagine if a player found a way to win two seasons at once.
Yeah that's kind of my point... so the hope for a foreigner to play in Korea is still non-existant Blizzard really needs to figure out a way for that to happen, because that was what was most epic about sc2 a few years back
Very nice. Hope this gives hesitant Koreans the little incentive they needed to go on their career.
Edit : from what I understand, those tournaments will take place parallely to WCS KR that will have a region lock. Is that right ? Or will GSL still play the role of WCS KR ?
YEEEEES!!! This year have been such a drought with individual Korean leagues. I'm not sure of the pros and cons of this yet, but the fact that we are gonna get to see up to six leagues just makes me all tingly inside. I'm so god damn hyped!
On October 31 2014 21:26 IcookTacos wrote: YEEEEES!!! This year have been such a drought with individual Korean leagues. I'm not sure of the pros and cons of this yet, but the fact that we are gonna get to see up to six leagues just makes me all tingly inside. I'm so god damn hyped!
Is that 6 leagues ((GSL + SpoTV) x3) or 9 ((GSL + SpoTV + WCS) x 3) ?
On October 31 2014 21:26 IcookTacos wrote: YEEEEES!!! This year have been such a drought with individual Korean leagues. I'm not sure of the pros and cons of this yet, but the fact that we are gonna get to see up to six leagues just makes me all tingly inside. I'm so god damn hyped!
Is that 6 leagues ((GSL + SpoTV) x3) or 9 ((GSL + SpoTV + WCS) x 3) ?
It seems like 3 GSL + 3 SpoTV + Coming weekend tournaments.
On October 31 2014 21:26 IcookTacos wrote: YEEEEES!!! This year have been such a drought with individual Korean leagues. I'm not sure of the pros and cons of this yet, but the fact that we are gonna get to see up to six leagues just makes me all tingly inside. I'm so god damn hyped!
Is that 6 leagues ((GSL + SpoTV) x3) or 9 ((GSL + SpoTV + WCS) x 3) ?
It seems like 3 GSL + 3 SpoTV + Coming weekend tournaments.
I think at least one Kespa cup is already confirmed
On October 31 2014 21:26 IcookTacos wrote: YEEEEES!!! This year have been such a drought with individual Korean leagues. I'm not sure of the pros and cons of this yet, but the fact that we are gonna get to see up to six leagues just makes me all tingly inside. I'm so god damn hyped!
Is that 6 leagues ((GSL + SpoTV) x3) or 9 ((GSL + SpoTV + WCS) x 3) ?
I'm pretty sure that GSL will stay as the WCS equivalent for the KR region, so I'd say 6, to which you have to add the weekend tournaments that will be organised too such as KeSPA Cup.
I don't like the increase of number of tournaments. It creates more lesser important champions and just making more of the same won't attract more viewers to the already declining GSL viewership. It is good that there are more matches, but I would prefer it if they did it via longer running seasons where a player cannot be eliminated in one day (before the playoffs start), something like Proleague does for teams.
That, and they need to up their international production. The international production from Korea always seems to be an afterthought. It probably isn't worth the cost of doing that, though, but it's the first thing I would wish for as a viewer. Not quantity, but quality.
On October 31 2014 21:26 IcookTacos wrote: YEEEEES!!! This year have been such a drought with individual Korean leagues. I'm not sure of the pros and cons of this yet, but the fact that we are gonna get to see up to six leagues just makes me all tingly inside. I'm so god damn hyped!
Is that 6 leagues ((GSL + SpoTV) x3) or 9 ((GSL + SpoTV + WCS) x 3) ?
I'm pretty sure that GSL will stay as the WCS equivalent for the KR region, so I'd say 6, to which you have to add the weekend tournaments that will be organised too such as KeSPA Cup.
There is no separate WCS/GSL. In 2014 it was just GSL. Now it'll be GSL/SpoTV. So 6 leagues.
I think more Korean tournaments are very important for the simple reason that there are only 32 people who can be showcased in Code S per season (and of those 32, 16 will lose in the first round). With the expected influx of new players into Korea as a result of EU/AM region lock, without another tournament, there'd be a bunch of strong players who don't get into Code S or lose very quickly and have nothing to do for months unless they're being sent out in SPL or to foreign tournaments. Now at least they'll have a chance to try for another tournament.
- GSL stays the equivalent of WCS KR but has no region lock. - SpoTV runs a parallel tournament that awards WCS points and has no region lock either. - Open WCS points worthy events are to be run in Korea.
This is excellent news. The "no lock" will even cement Korea's status of eSports Mecca : since KR region awards so many points, foreigners who really want to thrive and maximize their chance for Blizzcon should consider playing those Korean tournaments. Many we'll see Scarlett or Bunny try for NaNiwa/Jinro like runs ! Foreigners in GSL, the temple of eSports, was always one of the things I found the most exciting. I repeat it because I'm so excited, this is awesome news.
On October 31 2014 23:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: OK, so if we recapitulate :
- GSL stays the equivalent of WCS KR but has no region lock. - SpoTV runs a parallel tournament that awards WCS points and has no region lock either. - Open WCS points worthy events are to be run in Korea.
This is excellent news. The "no lock" will even cement Korea's status of eSports Mecca : since KR region awards so many points, foreigners who really want to thrive and maximize their chance for Blizzcon should consider playing those Korean tournaments. Many we'll see Scarlett or Bunny try for NaNiwa/Jinro like runs ! Foreigners in GSL, the temple of eSports, was always one of the things I found the most exciting. I repeat it because I'm so excited, this is awesome news.
Eh... GSL is still effectively region locked since you have to be in Korea to compete at all levels of the tournament. And I absolutely do not see any foreigners trying to make a run there since WCS NA and EU are going to be FAR easier.
On October 31 2014 23:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: OK, so if we recapitulate :
- GSL stays the equivalent of WCS KR but has no region lock. - SpoTV runs a parallel tournament that awards WCS points and has no region lock either. - Open WCS points worthy events are to be run in Korea.
This is excellent news. The "no lock" will even cement Korea's status of eSports Mecca : since KR region awards so many points, foreigners who really want to thrive and maximize their chance for Blizzcon should consider playing those Korean tournaments. Many we'll see Scarlett or Bunny try for NaNiwa/Jinro like runs ! Foreigners in GSL, the temple of eSports, was always one of the things I found the most exciting. I repeat it because I'm so excited, this is awesome news.
Yeah I hope Snute for exemple will try GSL if he gets good enough
On October 31 2014 23:28 swag_bro wrote: This isn't fair. If EU and NA get region lock, then so should Korea.
Except that, you know, if you want to compete in GSL you still have to be in Korea for Code B, then Code A, and finally Code S Ro32 compared to NA and EU where all this is held online. That's pretty much a "region-lock". And it's not like there are plenty of foreigners ready to take the KR scene money (x
Not really region locked because the region locked regions (EU and AM) now require actual legal resident status. In Korea you just have to fly in and find someone to stay with. Not simple but obviously much easier than becoming a resident of Korea.
On October 31 2014 23:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: OK, so if we recapitulate :
- GSL stays the equivalent of WCS KR but has no region lock. - SpoTV runs a parallel tournament that awards WCS points and has no region lock either. - Open WCS points worthy events are to be run in Korea.
This is excellent news. The "no lock" will even cement Korea's status of eSports Mecca : since KR region awards so many points, foreigners who really want to thrive and maximize their chance for Blizzcon should consider playing those Korean tournaments. Many we'll see Scarlett or Bunny try for NaNiwa/Jinro like runs ! Foreigners in GSL, the temple of eSports, was always one of the things I found the most exciting. I repeat it because I'm so excited, this is awesome news.
Eh... GSL is still effectively region locked since you have to be in Korea to compete at all levels of the tournament. And I absolutely do not see any foreigners trying to make a run there since WCS NA and EU are going to be FAR easier.
That's always been the case and foreigners have still tried. Naturally the larger the gap in skill level the less likely that is but someone like Scarlett can certainly make an attempt. Naniwa stated many times he tried in Korea because he wanted to compete against the best. He could have made more money elsewhere.
On October 31 2014 23:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: OK, so if we recapitulate :
- GSL stays the equivalent of WCS KR but has no region lock. - SpoTV runs a parallel tournament that awards WCS points and has no region lock either. - Open WCS points worthy events are to be run in Korea.
This is excellent news. The "no lock" will even cement Korea's status of eSports Mecca : since KR region awards so many points, foreigners who really want to thrive and maximize their chance for Blizzcon should consider playing those Korean tournaments. Many we'll see Scarlett or Bunny try for NaNiwa/Jinro like runs ! Foreigners in GSL, the temple of eSports, was always one of the things I found the most exciting. I repeat it because I'm so excited, this is awesome news.
Eh... GSL is still effectively region locked since you have to be in Korea to compete at all levels of the tournament. And I absolutely do not see any foreigners trying to make a run there since WCS NA and EU are going to be FAR easier.
That's always been the case and foreigners have still tried. Naturally the larger the gap in skill level the less likely that is but someone like Scarlett can certainly make an attempt. Naniwa stated many times he tried in Korea because he wanted to compete against the best. He could have made more money elsewhere.
Not everyone is Naniwa, and I don't think Scarlett could make an attempt. Scarlett could maybe make Ro32 if she got lucky and I don't think any other foreigner would do much better, MAYBE Bunny.
On October 31 2014 23:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: OK, so if we recapitulate :
- GSL stays the equivalent of WCS KR but has no region lock. - SpoTV runs a parallel tournament that awards WCS points and has no region lock either. - Open WCS points worthy events are to be run in Korea.
This is excellent news. The "no lock" will even cement Korea's status of eSports Mecca : since KR region awards so many points, foreigners who really want to thrive and maximize their chance for Blizzcon should consider playing those Korean tournaments. Many we'll see Scarlett or Bunny try for NaNiwa/Jinro like runs ! Foreigners in GSL, the temple of eSports, was always one of the things I found the most exciting. I repeat it because I'm so excited, this is awesome news.
Eh... GSL is still effectively region locked since you have to be in Korea to compete at all levels of the tournament. And I absolutely do not see any foreigners trying to make a run there since WCS NA and EU are going to be FAR easier.
That's always been the case and foreigners have still tried. Naturally the larger the gap in skill level the less likely that is but someone like Scarlett can certainly make an attempt. Naniwa stated many times he tried in Korea because he wanted to compete against the best. He could have made more money elsewhere.
Surely now since all the Koreans will stay in KR the skill gap will only get bigger again
All of this stuff was sorely needed. Preventing Koreans from playing tournaments that they deserve to win (because they're better than foreigners) was going to cause huge whiplash as players returned to an oversaturated and underfunded Korean scene. Mass retirements would have followed of that I have no doubt and Proleague is certainly not an option for many players.
Futures looking brighter for Korea and so it should be. The best should be rewarded.
On October 31 2014 23:43 TotalBiscuit wrote: All of this stuff was sorely needed. Preventing Koreans from playing tournaments that deserve to win (because they're better than foreigners) was going to cause huge whiplash as players returned to an oversaturated and underfunded Korean scene. Mass retirements would have followed of that I have no doubt and Proleague is certainly not an option for many players.
Futures looking brighter for Korea and so it should be. The best should be rewarded.
Couldn't agree more TB. One can hope we'll see some foreigners try for korean tournament runs now that there's more there for them, but I doubt it with how easy they can make money elsewhere.
On October 31 2014 23:43 TotalBiscuit wrote: All of this stuff was sorely needed. Preventing Koreans from playing tournaments that deserve to win (because they're better than foreigners) was going to cause huge whiplash as players returned to an oversaturated and underfunded Korean scene. Mass retirements would have followed of that I have no doubt and Proleague is certainly not an option for many players.
Futures looking brighter for Korea and so it should be. The best should be rewarded.
Happy to see you in good form and always on point !
On October 31 2014 23:53 IntoTheheart wrote: Loving this. Finally a quasi OSL/MSL format for SC2; very exciting. I wonder how many second-places Stork will grab in the near future.
On October 31 2014 23:31 Yakikorosu wrote: Not really region locked because the region locked regions (EU and AM) now require actual legal resident status. In Korea you just have to fly in and find someone to stay with. Not simple but obviously much easier than becoming a resident of Korea.
The Korean playerbase is pretty much the region lock. It's the same as in physical sports. The top leagues don't have any restrictions on the amount of foreigners but the lesser leagues do.
Good. Creating more events in Korea has always been the only sensible solution to both the Koreans in Korea not getting any WCS points/prize money and "foreign Koreans" hoovering up all the foreign points and money.
While i agree that more tournaments is nice, the money basically stays the same no? One GSL and one Spotv tournaments together is only a little bit more money than one gsl before. Obviously players now have more chances to earn money, that is great, but meh.
I guess i have to wait till we know exactly what "Additionally, Blizzard has announced that outside GSL and SpoTV's "regular" tournaments, there will be several more WCS-point giving tournaments held in Korea." this means.
On October 31 2014 23:43 TotalBiscuit wrote: All of this stuff was sorely needed. Preventing Koreans from playing tournaments that they deserve to win (because they're better than foreigners) was going to cause huge whiplash as players returned to an oversaturated and underfunded Korean scene. Mass retirements would have followed of that I have no doubt and Proleague is certainly not an option for many players.
Futures looking brighter for Korea and so it should be. The best should be rewarded.
Wtf, tournaments are really doing that...? Unbelievable... O.o
Looking at the past IEMs and DHs, the players in the first few stages look - no offense - a bit underwhelming. I have a hard time imagining that the organizers ignored some Koreans players in favor of them. :o
On October 31 2014 23:43 TotalBiscuit wrote: All of this stuff was sorely needed. Preventing Koreans from playing tournaments that they deserve to win (because they're better than foreigners) was going to cause huge whiplash as players returned to an oversaturated and underfunded Korean scene. Mass retirements would have followed of that I have no doubt and Proleague is certainly not an option for many players.
Futures looking brighter for Korea and so it should be. The best should be rewarded.
Wtf, tournaments are really doing that...? Unbelievable... O.o
Looking at the past IEMs and DHs, the players in the first few stages look - no offense - a bit underwhelming. I have a hart time imagining that the organizers ignored some Koreans players in favor of them. :o
He is referring too (I believe) the WCS region locks. IEMs and especially DHs always have a lot of local players, which is important for the local scenes. It's also why I think the region locks are a good thing and so is the extra investment in the Korean scene.
On October 31 2014 23:43 TotalBiscuit wrote: All of this stuff was sorely needed. Preventing Koreans from playing tournaments that they deserve to win (because they're better than foreigners) was going to cause huge whiplash as players returned to an oversaturated and underfunded Korean scene. Mass retirements would have followed of that I have no doubt and Proleague is certainly not an option for many players.
Futures looking brighter for Korea and so it should be. The best should be rewarded.
Wtf, tournaments are really doing that...? Unbelievable... O.o
Looking at the past IEMs and DHs, the players in the first few stages look - no offense - a bit underwhelming. I have a hart time imagining that the organizers ignored some Koreans players in favor of them. :o
He is referring too (I believe) the WCS region locks. IEMs and especially DHs always have a lot of local players, which is important for the local scenes. It's also why I think the region locks are a good thing and so is the extra investment in the Korean scene.
I see, that makes sense. Personally, I also would've preferred if WCS would become more like GSL with matches in a live studio over an extended period of time instead of a region lock. I wonder whether that would be viable in Europe. :-/
I'm not so sure this will help the koreans being kicked out of WCS AM/EU
I expect the same people playing in code S and Spotv tournament (as well as Kespa cup). Mid tier Koreans who were spanking foreigners for 2014 will have a hard time to even qualify (the same way they couldn't even touch IEM paid trip slots)
On October 31 2014 23:31 Yakikorosu wrote: Not really region locked because the region locked regions (EU and AM) now require actual legal resident status. In Korea you just have to fly in and find someone to stay with. Not simple but obviously much easier than becoming a resident of Korea.
The Korean playerbase is pretty much the region lock. It's the same as in physical sports. The top leagues don't have any restrictions on the amount of foreigners but the lesser leagues do.
+1.
in canadian minor hockey there are 2 types of leagues.
"male/female" leagues and "female only" leagues
there is no whining about "men's rights" because beyond a certain age no women play in the "Male/Female" league.
On November 01 2014 00:47 The_Red_Viper wrote: While i agree that more tournaments is nice, the money basically stays the same no? One GSL and one Spotv tournaments together is only a little bit more money than one gsl before. Obviously players now have more chances to earn money, that is great, but meh.
I guess i have to wait till we know exactly what "Additionally, Blizzard has announced that outside GSL and SpoTV's "regular" tournaments, there will be several more WCS-point giving tournaments held in Korea." this means.
Pretty sure all the extra money would have been given to 1st place any ways. Tournaments and exposure are a lot more important than money any ways.
Additionally, Blizzard has announced that outside GSL and SpoTV's "regular" tournaments, there will be several more WCS-point giving tournaments held in Korea.
Wont this mean less Koreans attending foreign tournaments though?
I think this is a good thing at this point. Only having Koreans in every single top 8 can scare a lot of viewers away, crowning a foreign player as a champion is really important for the foreign scene. This way both the Korean and the foreign scene can grow separately.
EPT
. I hope the new tournaments can compensate but we'll have to wait and see...
