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On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps.
P-please p-pick me...
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps.
Well, Blizzard cannot fix ramps so Colossus stops dancing on some maps for a whole season, here's something about solid maps 
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On October 02 2014 18:37 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps. Well, Blizzard cannot fix ramps so Colossus stops dancing on some maps for a whole season, here's something about solid maps
bad pathing algorithm that makes it so that a colossus tries to go somewhere where it cannot go is not the mapmakers fault.
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On October 02 2014 18:58 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 18:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps. Well, Blizzard cannot fix ramps so Colossus stops dancing on some maps for a whole season, here's something about solid maps bad pathing algorithm that makes it so that a colossus tries to go somewhere where it cannot go is not the mapmakers fault.
And I believe Uvantak fixed it on his version of the map ; but apparently Blizzard's opinion is that taking "community maps" means just taking them and putting them on the ladder, not collaborating with the mapmaker for potential updates/bug fixes/whatever
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 02 2014 18:58 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 18:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps. Well, Blizzard cannot fix ramps so Colossus stops dancing on some maps for a whole season, here's something about solid maps bad pathing algorithm that makes it so that a colossus tries to go somewhere where it cannot go is not the mapmakers fault.
If you read carefully enough I blame Blizzard. Because it happens that you create a bugged thing(I am a programmer I do it all the time :D). But it is responsible that you fix it. And by fixing it I do not mean Season 4 map pool ;-)
Edit: I mean - they took the map and since it is official map of Blizzard game for Blizzard league(WCS) it is THEIR responsibility to FIX this. They can ask the map maker who did it, they can design their fix. It is not OK to leave the map as it is 
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:
... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus,
Along with (counting GSL/Team Crux maps) Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Korhal Compound, Metropolis, Ohana, Bel'shir Vestige, Frost, Habitation Station, Heavy Rain, King Sejong Station, Korhal Sky Island, Merry Go Round, Neo Planet S, Overgrowth, Polar Night, Red City, Whirlwind and Yeonsu...roughly one third (7/18) of those coming from TLMC.
Some turned out balanced and others didn't, but overall they have always been far, far better than Blizzard's maps (hello Daedalus Point!)
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Northern Ireland25506 Posts
On October 02 2014 18:28 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps. P-please p-pick me...
That looks pretty cool man, hope it gets some traction soon
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On October 02 2014 06:13 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 06:04 Big J wrote:
Voting has ended. The results will be up in a few weeks, if they go by their original plan.
However, there has been some reddit discussion including psione from blizzard to publish the maps one by one. Well, honestly this would be quite annoying, the same way it'd be extremely annoying if you knew you had seven diseases among twenty and your doctor tells you one each week. I'd rather know the seven diseases at once, so I can think in advance of ways to cure them (what to veto, is this map playable in at least one match-up, etc). So yeah, I hope they tell us at once and rather quickly.
Rofl, you have great posts in this thread :D
I agree with you, it will just drag out the pain. If by some miracle the map pool has 4 playable maps then I could just know that I could veto the rest and not even have to think about it. Now if they release them one by one I have to be worried for weeks no matter which maps gets released.
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On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps.
Yes I'm optimistic !
The thing is, I'm only diamond player, so any "small" imbalance won't really matter all that much to me. And yes, some maps will end up being absolutely broken for a matchup (the vetoes that I never used are here for that), but I'm excited to see the shake up to the metagame tbh.Trying out new stuff, find new ways of making things work.
For example, as a terran, maybe we'll see super old school come back. Stuff like siege expand, and more generally one base play might see a resurgence. I'll like seeing how it works out with HotS unit and the clash of old builds and maps with the current meta !
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On October 02 2014 19:08 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 18:58 Big J wrote:On October 02 2014 18:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps. Well, Blizzard cannot fix ramps so Colossus stops dancing on some maps for a whole season, here's something about solid maps bad pathing algorithm that makes it so that a colossus tries to go somewhere where it cannot go is not the mapmakers fault. If you read carefully enough I blame Blizzard. Because it happens that you create a bugged thing(I am a programmer I do it all the time :D). But it is responsible that you fix it. And by fixing it I do not mean Season 4 map pool ;-) Edit: I mean - they took the map and since it is official map of Blizzard game for Blizzard league(WCS) it is THEIR responsibility to FIX this. They can ask the map maker who did it, they can design their fix. It is not OK to leave the map as it is
Ups, now I understand your point.
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On October 02 2014 19:10 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:
... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, Along with (counting GSL/Team Crux maps) Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Korhal Compound, Metropolis, Ohana, Bel'shir Vestige, Frost, Habitation Station, Heavy Rain, King Sejong Station, Korhal Sky Island, Merry Go Round, Neo Planet S, Overgrowth, Polar Night, Red City, Whirlwind and Yeonsu...roughly one third (7/18) of those coming from TLMC. Some turned out balanced and others didn't, but overall they have always been far, far better than Blizzard's maps (hello Daedalus Point!)
Well, the reason why blizzard maps aren't that good is that they try things.
They have actually shown us that they are easily capable of producing standard, somewhat balanced maps (Antiga, Akilon, Entombed, Derelicted, Star Station, Heavy Rain, Newkirk...).
And honestly, that is really not that hard in my opinion, if you disregard that a map might break due to the gameplay developing (e.g. in the case of Heavy Rain or Yeonsu with blink).
I think the hard part is making them interesting and I respect blizzard for trying out some extremes. They usually fail, but in some cases (Alterzim) it actually produces very interesting results or turns out pretty balanced in some matchups. Or can be easily fixed (Daedalus).
Though they could also just use some maps from The Templar's monthly Map Jam & Challenge.
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On October 02 2014 19:15 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 18:28 Meavis wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps. P-please p-pick me... That looks pretty cool man, hope it gets some traction soon
Wouldn't count on it, ran out of traction long ago.
On October 02 2014 19:48 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 19:10 Teoita wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:
... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, Along with (counting GSL/Team Crux maps) Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Korhal Compound, Metropolis, Ohana, Bel'shir Vestige, Frost, Habitation Station, Heavy Rain, King Sejong Station, Korhal Sky Island, Merry Go Round, Neo Planet S, Overgrowth, Polar Night, Red City, Whirlwind and Yeonsu...roughly one third (7/18) of those coming from TLMC. Some turned out balanced and others didn't, but overall they have always been far, far better than Blizzard's maps (hello Daedalus Point!) Well, the reason why blizzard maps aren't that good is that they try things.
so do community mappers, but they don't have a free ticket to the ladder unlike blizz maps.
On October 02 2014 19:48 Big J wrote:
They have actually shown us that they are easily capable of producing standard, somewhat balanced maps (Antiga, Akilon, Entombed, Derelicted, Star Station, Heavy Rain, Newkirk...).
all of those maps had issues to some degree, and heavy rain was community made.
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On October 02 2014 20:07 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 19:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 02 2014 18:28 Meavis wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps. P-please p-pick me... That looks pretty cool man, hope it gets some traction soon Wouldn't count on it, ran out of traction long ago. Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 19:48 Big J wrote:On October 02 2014 19:10 Teoita wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:
... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, Along with (counting GSL/Team Crux maps) Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Korhal Compound, Metropolis, Ohana, Bel'shir Vestige, Frost, Habitation Station, Heavy Rain, King Sejong Station, Korhal Sky Island, Merry Go Round, Neo Planet S, Overgrowth, Polar Night, Red City, Whirlwind and Yeonsu...roughly one third (7/18) of those coming from TLMC. Some turned out balanced and others didn't, but overall they have always been far, far better than Blizzard's maps (hello Daedalus Point!) Well, the reason why blizzard maps aren't that good is that they try things. so do community mappers, but they don't have a free ticket to the ladder unlike blizz maps.
Yup. That's true. But the community maps that try things also don't get upvoted by the community, unless you just cut every standard map from the contest like in that TLMC. And even then not an innovative map won, but one that was flashy and used scripts.
On October 02 2014 20:07 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 19:48 Big J wrote:
They have actually shown us that they are easily capable of producing standard, somewhat balanced maps (Antiga, Akilon, Entombed, Derelicted, Star Station, Heavy Rain, Newkirk...). all of those maps had issues to some degree, and heavy rain was community made.
Every map has some issues to some degree.
I thought that was a blizzard map, given how much shit they got for it.
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No Incineration Zone? that was the best map in competitive gaming.
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Blizzard would totally love to announce the winning maps asap...
but the technology just isn't there yet.
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Northern Ireland25506 Posts
On October 02 2014 20:35 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 20:07 Meavis wrote:On October 02 2014 19:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 02 2014 18:28 Meavis wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps. P-please p-pick me... That looks pretty cool man, hope it gets some traction soon Wouldn't count on it, ran out of traction long ago. On October 02 2014 19:48 Big J wrote:On October 02 2014 19:10 Teoita wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:
... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, Along with (counting GSL/Team Crux maps) Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Korhal Compound, Metropolis, Ohana, Bel'shir Vestige, Frost, Habitation Station, Heavy Rain, King Sejong Station, Korhal Sky Island, Merry Go Round, Neo Planet S, Overgrowth, Polar Night, Red City, Whirlwind and Yeonsu...roughly one third (7/18) of those coming from TLMC. Some turned out balanced and others didn't, but overall they have always been far, far better than Blizzard's maps (hello Daedalus Point!) Well, the reason why blizzard maps aren't that good is that they try things. so do community mappers, but they don't have a free ticket to the ladder unlike blizz maps. Yup. That's true. But the community maps that try things also don't get upvoted by the community, unless you just cut every standard map from the contest like in that TLMC. And even then not an innovative map won, but one that was flashy and used scripts. Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 20:07 Meavis wrote:On October 02 2014 19:48 Big J wrote:
They have actually shown us that they are easily capable of producing standard, somewhat balanced maps (Antiga, Akilon, Entombed, Derelicted, Star Station, Heavy Rain, Newkirk...). all of those maps had issues to some degree, and heavy rain was community made. Every map has some issues to some degree. I thought that was a blizzard map, given how much shit they got for it.
It just seems very difficult to get people to play on community maps that aren't picked up by WCS, or previously to the current system those maps that were used by GSL/IPL etc.
It's a sucky situation that is hard to resolve. I was perusing the mapmaking section here and saw a lot that looked pretty interesting.
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On October 02 2014 21:09 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 20:35 Big J wrote:On October 02 2014 20:07 Meavis wrote:On October 02 2014 19:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 02 2014 18:28 Meavis wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps. P-please p-pick me... That looks pretty cool man, hope it gets some traction soon Wouldn't count on it, ran out of traction long ago. On October 02 2014 19:48 Big J wrote:On October 02 2014 19:10 Teoita wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:
... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, Along with (counting GSL/Team Crux maps) Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Korhal Compound, Metropolis, Ohana, Bel'shir Vestige, Frost, Habitation Station, Heavy Rain, King Sejong Station, Korhal Sky Island, Merry Go Round, Neo Planet S, Overgrowth, Polar Night, Red City, Whirlwind and Yeonsu...roughly one third (7/18) of those coming from TLMC. Some turned out balanced and others didn't, but overall they have always been far, far better than Blizzard's maps (hello Daedalus Point!) Well, the reason why blizzard maps aren't that good is that they try things. so do community mappers, but they don't have a free ticket to the ladder unlike blizz maps. Yup. That's true. But the community maps that try things also don't get upvoted by the community, unless you just cut every standard map from the contest like in that TLMC. And even then not an innovative map won, but one that was flashy and used scripts. On October 02 2014 20:07 Meavis wrote:On October 02 2014 19:48 Big J wrote:
They have actually shown us that they are easily capable of producing standard, somewhat balanced maps (Antiga, Akilon, Entombed, Derelicted, Star Station, Heavy Rain, Newkirk...). all of those maps had issues to some degree, and heavy rain was community made. Every map has some issues to some degree. I thought that was a blizzard map, given how much shit they got for it. It just seems very difficult to get people to play on community maps that aren't picked up by WCS, or previously to the current system those maps that were used by GSL/IPL etc. It's a sucky situation that is hard to resolve. I was perusing the mapmaking section here and saw a lot that looked pretty interesting.
yup. But I think it is partly the communities fault that really good maps do not get a chance, given how little interest there is in mapmaking. (Map of the Month gets decided by what, 100votes; Great maps have what, 10comments?)
Basically you need a contest like TLMC or a sponsor like RedBull to even put a spotlight on the mapmaking scene. Then blizzard picks a few of those maps and all the attention goes away again.
1month later people go back on the forums to tell everybody how blizzard doesn't care about community maps, while Gems like http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/465166-2-expedition-lost have only 12replies, 3 by its own maker.
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On October 02 2014 20:57 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Blizzard would totally love to announce the winning maps asap...
but the technology just isn't there yet.
It is a race against LAN functionality. xD
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On October 02 2014 19:08 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2014 18:58 Big J wrote:On October 02 2014 18:37 deacon.frost wrote:On October 02 2014 18:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
I'm super eager to know what the map pool will end up being. As for me, I'm super afraid, but you must be the optimistic guy. On October 02 2014 17:41 LoneYoShi wrote:
Please consider using community-made maps ! ... they already did with Catallena, Foxtrot Labs, Deadwing and Nimbus, which weren't that exciting nor balanced -especially Nimbus which is broken as hell, PvT is a nightmare on this map. They should just add solid maps, I don't care if they're community made or not as long as they're reasonably standard good maps. Well, Blizzard cannot fix ramps so Colossus stops dancing on some maps for a whole season, here's something about solid maps bad pathing algorithm that makes it so that a colossus tries to go somewhere where it cannot go is not the mapmakers fault. If you read carefully enough I blame Blizzard. Because it happens that you create a bugged thing(I am a programmer I do it all the time :D). But it is responsible that you fix it. And by fixing it I do not mean Season 4 map pool ;-) Edit: I mean - they took the map and since it is official map of Blizzard game for Blizzard league(WCS) it is THEIR responsibility to FIX this. They can ask the map maker who did it, they can design their fix. It is not OK to leave the map as it is
But bad pathing is a StarCraft feature, and has been since the original. Derping Collosus are the new Dancing Dragoons.
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your Country52797 Posts
Blizzard announces Steppes of War first, everyone freaks out. Then they announce Antiga Shipyard and everyone goes 
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EPT
