On September 19 2014 22:24 Tzyx wrote: i wouldn't want to see all of the map pool be 2010 maps. a nice spread would be perfect. Being able to play on steppes of war now would be interesting for a bit, but not if the whole pool was like that.
Nostalgia =\= only 2010
Perfect would be about 2ish maps per year wife 2010 so we get to actually compare and contrast what map making has done on a more immediate level. Even have the year pop up on the loading screen "Xel Naga Caverns (2010)"
So people who were bad before but better now can really see how far the game has gone. But it would also give a lot of players what they're asking for. Some players whine that Protoss expansions are too safe, it's too easy to get a natural and a 3rd. Some people complain that Terran aggression is too neutered. Some people complain that all maps seem too similar with natural into 3rd being too linear. Let them play the maps that predicated those modern changes. Let them see a meta game where photon overcharge is not enough to protect nexus first builds. Let them play maps with cliffs for siege tanks to rain down from. Remind them why the modern map pool is boring. And do it by giving them exactly what they want.
If they did this for a week I wouldnt even complain (they could do something like 2 days per year and have a ton of diff maps), but an entire season ?
I've been playing this game since WoL Beta and yes the maps from the early seasons are not very good compared to the way they are designed now. I do believe it is part nostalgia for some players but I would still be curious what kind of games are produced on some of these maps that get voted in. I think it might serve all players better though if the winning list was put on a ptr and we can get a better idea of what games might look like. If it is unplayable maybe try another list of old maps in testing to see how it goes.
If this hasn't been mentioned yet and I would be surprised if it hasn't, the reason why Blizzard is doing this. The new season starts just after Blizzcon and most people (including myself) believe we will get an announcement on LotV. I would imagine most people will be so distracted by the new information that we will not care so much about what is happening on ladder. Also, what are the chances that we will get a Beta for LotV some time during this season? Didn't HotS beta happen shortly after Blizzcon as well?
If this hasn't been mentioned yet and I would be surprised if it hasn't, the reason why Blizzard is doing this. The new season starts just after Blizzcon and most people (including myself) believe we will get an announcement on LotV. I would imagine most people will be so distracted by the new information that we will not care so much about what is happening on ladder. Also, what are the chances that we will get a Beta for LotV some time during this season? Didn't HotS beta happen shortly after Blizzcon as well?
It's just barely, barely possible they will announce an open beta for LotV for season 4 and they'll have new maps there
Hmmm... it would also make extra sense since WCS is kind of "resetting" for next season. If it's a new game then why not reset the standings. Not holding my breath though.
There's no way there is beta for LOTV at all this year. The SC2 development team has been building Heroes of the Storm, not LotV. They MIGHT have the LOTV cinematic ready to debut and if we are lucky they might have some early campaign demo concepts and multiplayer change/unit ideas to tease us with.
On September 20 2014 04:14 imJealous wrote: There's no way there is beta for LOTV at all this year. The SC2 development team has been building Heroes of the Storm, not LotV. They MIGHT have the LOTV cinematic ready to debut and if we are lucky they might have some early campaign demo concepts and multiplayer change/unit ideas to tease us with.
On September 20 2014 04:14 imJealous wrote: There's no way there is beta for LOTV at all this year. The SC2 development team has been building Heroes of the Storm, not LotV. They MIGHT have the LOTV cinematic ready to debut and if we are lucky they might have some early campaign demo concepts and multiplayer change/unit ideas to tease us with.
no shit
what does this have to do with nostalgia maps?
Read the 5 posts preceding mine maybe?
you're supposed to use quotes on this forum instead of replying to random posts out of the blue ^^
i hope they bring back metal, xnc, and tal darim and that they don't cancel this because of all the crybabies itt
The ultimate troll will be 7 tile sets of kulas ravine.
I think bringing back a handful of maps as well as introducing a bunch of brand new maps would be sweet. Especially if it's an off season why not do 2 or 3 2010 maps and another ~5 brand new maps. It'll still have the nostalgia feel but will also have 5 or so brand new maps.
On September 19 2014 22:24 Tzyx wrote: i wouldn't want to see all of the map pool be 2010 maps. a nice spread would be perfect. Being able to play on steppes of war now would be interesting for a bit, but not if the whole pool was like that.
Nostalgia =\= only 2010
Perfect would be about 2ish maps per year wife 2010 so we get to actually compare and contrast what map making has done on a more immediate level. Even have the year pop up on the loading screen "Xel Naga Caverns (2010)"
So people who were bad before but better now can really see how far the game has gone. But it would also give a lot of players what they're asking for. Some players whine that Protoss expansions are too safe, it's too easy to get a natural and a 3rd. Some people complain that Terran aggression is too neutered. Some people complain that all maps seem too similar with natural into 3rd being too linear. Let them play the maps that predicated those modern changes. Let them see a meta game where photon overcharge is not enough to protect nexus first builds. Let them play maps with cliffs for siege tanks to rain down from. Remind them why the modern map pool is boring. And do it by giving them exactly what they want.
If they did this for a week I wouldnt even complain (they could do something like 2 days per year and have a ton of diff maps), but an entire season ?
Hell, 2 weeks even. Just not a season.
Come to think of it, this would be awesome if they had small breaks like that between one season and the other for stuff like this.
On September 19 2014 22:24 Tzyx wrote: i wouldn't want to see all of the map pool be 2010 maps. a nice spread would be perfect. Being able to play on steppes of war now would be interesting for a bit, but not if the whole pool was like that.
Nostalgia =\= only 2010
Perfect would be about 2ish maps per year wife 2010 so we get to actually compare and contrast what map making has done on a more immediate level. Even have the year pop up on the loading screen "Xel Naga Caverns (2010)"
So people who were bad before but better now can really see how far the game has gone. But it would also give a lot of players what they're asking for. Some players whine that Protoss expansions are too safe, it's too easy to get a natural and a 3rd. Some people complain that Terran aggression is too neutered. Some people complain that all maps seem too similar with natural into 3rd being too linear. Let them play the maps that predicated those modern changes. Let them see a meta game where photon overcharge is not enough to protect nexus first builds. Let them play maps with cliffs for siege tanks to rain down from. Remind them why the modern map pool is boring. And do it by giving them exactly what they want.
If they did this for a week I wouldnt even complain (they could do something like 2 days per year and have a ton of diff maps), but an entire season ?
On September 19 2014 22:24 Tzyx wrote: i wouldn't want to see all of the map pool be 2010 maps. a nice spread would be perfect. Being able to play on steppes of war now would be interesting for a bit, but not if the whole pool was like that.
Nostalgia =\= only 2010
Perfect would be about 2ish maps per year wife 2010 so we get to actually compare and contrast what map making has done on a more immediate level. Even have the year pop up on the loading screen "Xel Naga Caverns (2010)"
So people who were bad before but better now can really see how far the game has gone. But it would also give a lot of players what they're asking for. Some players whine that Protoss expansions are too safe, it's too easy to get a natural and a 3rd. Some people complain that Terran aggression is too neutered. Some people complain that all maps seem too similar with natural into 3rd being too linear. Let them play the maps that predicated those modern changes. Let them see a meta game where photon overcharge is not enough to protect nexus first builds. Let them play maps with cliffs for siege tanks to rain down from. Remind them why the modern map pool is boring. And do it by giving them exactly what they want.
If they did this for a week I wouldnt even complain (they could do something like 2 days per year and have a ton of diff maps), but an entire season ?
Hell, 2 weeks even. Just not a season.
Come to think of it, this would be awesome if they had small breaks like that between one season and the other for stuff like this.
Very much agreed. These events nearly always sound really awesome in theory. But in reality, it motivates people to play 1-2 games before realising this was actually a terrible idea and they're bored within a week.
Psione: "The whole process with the Season 4 map pool voting is definitely different from what we've done before. As a result, it's something we'd like to see play out before considering our future plans. When Season 4 is over, we'll take time to see how everything went and go from there. Maybe its something we try each year, or maybe its something that we leave as a one-time fun event. In either case, the feedback we get during this whole process will be a really important part of those conversations. Presenting suggestions like this gives us something to consider and discuss when we do look towards the future."
Psione: The map versions up for vote will be as they are now. We won't be reworking any maps or looking to make signifcant changes. Please keep this in mind when making your vote.
However, it's still possible that minor changes could be made, such as locking spawn locations. While nothing has been determined on that end, it's something we can consider when looking at the final map pool.
So it looks like it will span the entire season and they wont be making any changes to the maps except spawn locations etc. Personally I lean towards the side of seeing how it plays out before making a judgement. Having one or two joke maps you can easily veto wouldn't affect laddering for serious players too much and it seems that there is a lot of traction in the community for larger maps like Taldarim Altar, Daybreak, Cloud Kingdom, Antiga Shipyard or Akilon Wastes and medium maps like Ohana, Neo Planet S and Shakuras Plataeu .
Based on the feedback from bnet forum feeds, twitter and TL it seems to me the most likely outcome for a map pool would be:
Taldarim Altar Daybreak Cloud Kingdom Ohana/Akilon Wastes Shakuras Plataeu/Neo Planet S Steppes of War Incineration Zone/Antiga Shipyard
This prediction is based on what is coming up on bnet, TL and twitter most often. If we get something like this it shouldn't be too much of a problem for a single off season.
Also, keep in mind that in a recent poll Blizzard asked the community "when is it okay to cheese?" and overwhelmingly they responded with a 70% vote for "All the time". So between the community enthusiasm for small maps like Steppes of War and the majority of people agreeing that cheese/rushing is perfectly fine I don't see a reason for blizzard to not include one or two smaller maps from now on. Its just something that players clearly want.
On September 20 2014 07:31 mGGNoRe wrote: Taldarim Altar Daybreak Cloud Kingdom Ohana/Akilon Flats Shakuras Plataeu/Neo Planet S Steppes of War Incineration Zone
This would not be a great map pool at all, but with vetos I guess for one season it would remain playable... I didn't see so many Incineration Zones (I think qxc said it... which saddens me for his sanity) but I definitely saw many Steppes of War. Still, the fact maps like that could get on a "classics" map pool while Frost or Whirlwind could be left behind makes me want to kill a kitten by tearing off his limbs one by one.
On September 19 2014 22:24 Tzyx wrote: i wouldn't want to see all of the map pool be 2010 maps. a nice spread would be perfect. Being able to play on steppes of war now would be interesting for a bit, but not if the whole pool was like that.
Nostalgia =\= only 2010
Perfect would be about 2ish maps per year wife 2010 so we get to actually compare and contrast what map making has done on a more immediate level. Even have the year pop up on the loading screen "Xel Naga Caverns (2010)"
So people who were bad before but better now can really see how far the game has gone. But it would also give a lot of players what they're asking for. Some players whine that Protoss expansions are too safe, it's too easy to get a natural and a 3rd. Some people complain that Terran aggression is too neutered. Some people complain that all maps seem too similar with natural into 3rd being too linear. Let them play the maps that predicated those modern changes. Let them see a meta game where photon overcharge is not enough to protect nexus first builds. Let them play maps with cliffs for siege tanks to rain down from. Remind them why the modern map pool is boring. And do it by giving them exactly what they want.
If they did this for a week I wouldnt even complain (they could do something like 2 days per year and have a ton of diff maps), but an entire season ?
On September 19 2014 22:24 Tzyx wrote: i wouldn't want to see all of the map pool be 2010 maps. a nice spread would be perfect. Being able to play on steppes of war now would be interesting for a bit, but not if the whole pool was like that.
Nostalgia =\= only 2010
Perfect would be about 2ish maps per year wife 2010 so we get to actually compare and contrast what map making has done on a more immediate level. Even have the year pop up on the loading screen "Xel Naga Caverns (2010)"
So people who were bad before but better now can really see how far the game has gone. But it would also give a lot of players what they're asking for. Some players whine that Protoss expansions are too safe, it's too easy to get a natural and a 3rd. Some people complain that Terran aggression is too neutered. Some people complain that all maps seem too similar with natural into 3rd being too linear. Let them play the maps that predicated those modern changes. Let them see a meta game where photon overcharge is not enough to protect nexus first builds. Let them play maps with cliffs for siege tanks to rain down from. Remind them why the modern map pool is boring. And do it by giving them exactly what they want.
If they did this for a week I wouldnt even complain (they could do something like 2 days per year and have a ton of diff maps), but an entire season ?
Hell, 2 weeks even. Just not a season.
Come to think of it, this would be awesome if they had small breaks like that between one season and the other for stuff like this.
Very much agreed. These events nearly always sound really awesome in theory. But in reality, it motivates people to play 1-2 games before realising this was actually a terrible idea and they're bored within a week.
So much truth... Wanna bet the ones who vote for troll maps will be the ones who'll complain on forums the ladder is unplayable after a week ?
On September 20 2014 07:31 mGGNoRe wrote: Taldarim Altar Daybreak Cloud Kingdom Ohana/Akilon Flats Shakuras Plataeu/Neo Planet S Steppes of War Incineration Zone
This would not be a great map pool at all, but with vetos I guess for one season it would remain playable... I didn't see so many Incineration Zones (I think qxc said it... which saddens me for his sanity) but I definitely saw many Steppes of War. Still, the fact maps like that could get on a "classics" map pool while Frost or Whirlwind could be left behind makes me want to kill a kitten by tearing off his limbs one by one.
On September 19 2014 22:24 Tzyx wrote: i wouldn't want to see all of the map pool be 2010 maps. a nice spread would be perfect. Being able to play on steppes of war now would be interesting for a bit, but not if the whole pool was like that.
Nostalgia =\= only 2010
Perfect would be about 2ish maps per year wife 2010 so we get to actually compare and contrast what map making has done on a more immediate level. Even have the year pop up on the loading screen "Xel Naga Caverns (2010)"
So people who were bad before but better now can really see how far the game has gone. But it would also give a lot of players what they're asking for. Some players whine that Protoss expansions are too safe, it's too easy to get a natural and a 3rd. Some people complain that Terran aggression is too neutered. Some people complain that all maps seem too similar with natural into 3rd being too linear. Let them play the maps that predicated those modern changes. Let them see a meta game where photon overcharge is not enough to protect nexus first builds. Let them play maps with cliffs for siege tanks to rain down from. Remind them why the modern map pool is boring. And do it by giving them exactly what they want.
If they did this for a week I wouldnt even complain (they could do something like 2 days per year and have a ton of diff maps), but an entire season ?
Hell, 2 weeks even. Just not a season.
On September 20 2014 06:55 Teoita wrote:
On September 20 2014 01:40 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On September 19 2014 22:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On September 19 2014 22:24 Tzyx wrote: i wouldn't want to see all of the map pool be 2010 maps. a nice spread would be perfect. Being able to play on steppes of war now would be interesting for a bit, but not if the whole pool was like that.
Nostalgia =\= only 2010
Perfect would be about 2ish maps per year wife 2010 so we get to actually compare and contrast what map making has done on a more immediate level. Even have the year pop up on the loading screen "Xel Naga Caverns (2010)"
So people who were bad before but better now can really see how far the game has gone. But it would also give a lot of players what they're asking for. Some players whine that Protoss expansions are too safe, it's too easy to get a natural and a 3rd. Some people complain that Terran aggression is too neutered. Some people complain that all maps seem too similar with natural into 3rd being too linear. Let them play the maps that predicated those modern changes. Let them see a meta game where photon overcharge is not enough to protect nexus first builds. Let them play maps with cliffs for siege tanks to rain down from. Remind them why the modern map pool is boring. And do it by giving them exactly what they want.
If they did this for a week I wouldnt even complain (they could do something like 2 days per year and have a ton of diff maps), but an entire season ?
Hell, 2 weeks even. Just not a season.
Come to think of it, this would be awesome if they had small breaks like that between one season and the other for stuff like this.
Very much agreed. These events nearly always sound really awesome in theory. But in reality, it motivates people to play 1-2 games before realising this was actually a terrible idea and they're bored within a week.
So much truth... Wanna bet the ones who vote for troll maps will be the ones who'll complain on forums the ladder is unplayable after a week ?
There are clear front runners to the map pool. Maps like Steppes of War, Taldarim Altar, Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak are definately in for sure. After that it becomes quite varied with front runners being Neo Planet S, Antiga Shipyard, Akilon Wastes etc. My overall point is that the majority of maps will be quite decently large to play macro games. Given that we all have three vetos and that the only smallish map that is really popular is steppes of war I really dont see how the maps are going to be much of an issue.
EPT
?
