EPTUpcoming Changes to WCS 2015 - Page 57
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WCS AM will continue to include LatAm, Oceania/SEA, CN, and TW/HK/Macau, you can all stop freaking out about it. | ||
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orllyfools
United States153 Posts
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On September 07 2014 12:45 orllyfools wrote: I think we're not talking about what Korea needs to do to keep Koreans there. Besides GSL and Proleague what is there for them to compete in besides foreign events. Korea should be trying to have more tournaments in between each GSL or during them. IEM or DH should also make a stop in this region. I know for sure I'd watch Dreamhack Open Korea. Dreamhack Open Korea would be insane | ||
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Beakyboo
United States485 Posts
On September 07 2014 12:27 Plansix wrote: I guess if your that cynical or willing to believe to back up your view on the situation. I guess everyone just does as their told, except for you and the people that agree with you, because you have figured it out. I don't have it figured out. I speculate. But you literally do nothing but attack the structure of my arguments rather than supporting your own. Whatever. Look back at this thread a year from now. I'm sure you're confident as well. | ||
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klipik12
United States241 Posts
On September 07 2014 12:45 orllyfools wrote: I think we're not talking about what Korea needs to do to keep Koreans there. Besides GSL and Proleague what is there for them to compete in besides foreign events. Korea should be trying to have more tournaments in between each GSL or during them. IEM or DH should also make a stop in this region. I know for sure I'd watch Dreamhack Open Korea. This may just be the best idea I've heard all day. The thing is, as awesome as it seems, there are a number of reasons it hasn't happened yet and probably won't unless there's a major change in Korean esports culture, or business decisions. For one, DH most likely won't have an event in Korea because they're a smaller company and will probably stay in EU and expand their open circuit with more locations like France, the UK or Germany. It's simply too much of a risk and too many resources to hold an event in Korea. ESL are much more likely to do this than DH, since the IEM tour already goes to every other major (eSports) region in the world besides KR and could just add it to their list. But it's not that simple either. The biggest problem with having events for a foreign audience in Korea is... Korea is in Korea. And Korea is halfway across the world from the majority of the SCII viewerbase and 1/3 of the world away from the rest. Now I may be a bit biased here being from the US, but I know if there was an IEM Seoul, I wouldn't stay up all night to watch it. I bet a lot of people in the US would do the same, especially the east coast where 6PM KST is 5/6AM here (daylight savings). I know the middle of he day in EU is more convenient for them, but, either way, there are gonna be a lot less foreign viewers than there would be for an event in EU or NA. That means less ad revenue and, as TB has mentioned about Axiom, a harder time lining up secondary sponsors (besides Intel ofc) that would benefit from advertising at an event in Korea, but aimed at foreigners. The other problem is viewership in Korea, unless the tournament is broadcast on SpoTV Games The only option that leaves is a Korean-driven, Korean-centric Korean tournament made by Koreans about Koreans for koreans. And the thing about that is, KeSPA don't care about the health of the low-level Korean scene as long as they keep making money off proleague, recruitng b-teamers that could go out into the world and make their name known and instead locking them down in a practice house for years and no fan will ever cheer for them. The real question I want to ask is, does foreign starcraft need the Korean scene? The Chinese scene went on for several years by itself, almost completely isolated from Korean or EU/NA meta shifts, and produced top -level players despite that. Would it not be reasonable to assume that NA and EU could do the same, given time? Or if the Korean War pt.II broke out tomorrow and Korean Starcraft shut down entirely, would people be satisfied watching foreigners duke it out amongst themselves, even though the overall global skill level had gone down ? I know I would. | ||
Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
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Pembar
297 Posts
That being said, I think it really depends on whether or not the organisers want to tap into the asian-timezone-friendly-market to hold a tournament in the Asian timezone. If you look across to other esport games, some of them hold their world championships in Asia as well. Disclaimer - I live in Europe. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On September 07 2014 06:09 brickrd wrote: whether it's a good idea hinges entirely on how blizzard is planning to support the change if it's literally a policy change with no game plan or logistical support, then yes, it's a horrendously stupid idea. but they could have something up their sleeves to bolster the system, who knows. I definitely agree with sentiment. I want to hear more from Blizzard. | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
On September 07 2014 14:29 Liquid`Snute wrote: Hopefully this won't cause too many Korean players to leave Europe. If they do, I know where I'll be getting my regular practice at least. Why would they leave Europe now with this change? Most Koreans in EU are already on European teams, and thus are allowed to continue to participate in WCS EU, aren't they? Over time, the number of Koreans in EU has increased slowly but surely... | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
The biggest problem with having events for a foreign audience in Korea is... Korea is in Korea. And Korea is halfway across the world from the majority of the SCII viewerbase and 1/3 of the world away from the rest. Now I may be a bit biased here being from the US, but I know if there was an IEM Seoul, I wouldn't stay up all night to watch it. I bet a lot of people in the US would do the same, especially the east coast where 6PM KST is 5/6AM here (daylight savings). I know the middle of he day in EU is more convenient for them, but, either way, there are gonna be a lot less foreign viewers than there would be for an event in EU or NA. That means less ad revenue and, as TB has mentioned about Axiom, a harder time lining up secondary sponsors (besides Intel ofc) that would benefit from advertising at an event in Korea, but aimed at foreigners. IEM has had multiple stops in China, so this seems somewhat irrelevant. | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On September 07 2014 14:29 Liquid`Snute wrote: Hopefully this won't cause too many Korean players to leave Europe. If they do, I know where I'll be getting my regular practice at least. doenst they say they need visa ? the koreans living in europe (france germany etc) can play right ? i understand as player you like having competition, but as observer i have to say seeing you play vs bling is still more intresting to watch then seeing you play vs the 10th korean in a row | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12619 Posts
On September 07 2014 20:53 Drake wrote: i understand as player you like having competition, but as observer i have to say seeing you play vs bling is still more intresting to watch then seeing you play vs the 10th korean in a row Out of curiosity, why is that? | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
On September 07 2014 20:53 Drake wrote: doenst they say they need visa ? the koreans living in europe (france germany etc) can play right ? i understand as player you like having competition, but as observer i have to say seeing you play vs bling is still more intresting to watch then seeing you play vs the 10th korean in a row I think seeing Snute play vs Koreans is interesting because he's on their level... if you picked someone with worse chances to win, I'd agree with you that seeing them vs someone evenly matched is more fun. | ||
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ESC.BlAckSuN
Germany50 Posts
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Pembar
297 Posts
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Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 07 2014 14:29 Liquid`Snute wrote: Hopefully this won't cause too many Korean players to leave Europe. If they do, I know where I'll be getting my regular practice at least. Are you telling me that practicing against good players regularly is preferrable to practicing against less good players?! | ||
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FuRRie
Belgium815 Posts
On September 07 2014 14:29 Liquid`Snute wrote: Hopefully this won't cause too many Korean players to leave Europe. If they do, I know where I'll be getting my regular practice at least. You basicly have to move to Korea to get some decent practice after the Exodus of Koreans. | ||
The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
On September 07 2014 20:53 Drake wrote: i understand as player you like having competition, but as observer i have to say seeing you play vs bling is still more intresting to watch then seeing you play vs the 10th korean in a row Is this because BlinG is a more interesting player than MC, Stardust, and San? | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6668 Posts
I never understood why so many people wanted region lock like this? Sure it will promote maybe a bit of growth in the foreign scenes for a season or two, but after that the novelty of foreign players playing will wear off and viewership is going to plummet. The best way to promote growth in the foreign scene is basically to have what Europe has now, a smaller group of top tier Koreans playing in the area to play against consistently. If AM loses the bulk of it's Korean players I see 0 upside to it. Not to mention how watered down Blizzcon might be. With the tough competition in Korea and limited points we might end up seeing a bunch of okay players from AM make it instead of some fucking amazing players from Korea etc. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
On September 07 2014 22:37 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Well WCS AM is going to be dead to me after this, GSL is on too late for me to watch live. So I guess I'm gonna have to rely on WCS EU to watch. I never understood why so many people wanted region lock like this? Sure it will promote maybe a bit of growth in the foreign scenes for a season or two, but after that the novelty of foreign players playing will wear off and viewership is going to plummet. The best way to promote growth in the foreign scene is basically to have what Europe has now, a smaller group of top tier Koreans playing in the area to play against consistently. If AM loses the bulk of it's Korean players I see 0 upside to it. Not to mention how watered down Blizzcon might be. With the tough competition in Korea and limited points we might end up seeing a bunch of okay players from AM make it instead of some fucking amazing players from Korea etc. The idea is that good players in the AM and EU regions that aren't as good as 300 players in korea can win stuff, because they are the best in their region. This exposes lesser-known foreigners as well. Non-region lock is a way of spreading all the players across multiple regions which leads to exposing lesser known koreans. (Disclaimer: This is from the perspective of someone that would never, ever make the decision to region lock) | ||
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