On September 07 2014 22:37 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Well WCS AM is going to be dead to me after this, GSL is on too late for me to watch live. So I guess I'm gonna have to rely on WCS EU to watch.
I never understood why so many people wanted region lock like this? Sure it will promote maybe a bit of growth in the foreign scenes for a season or two, but after that the novelty of foreign players playing will wear off and viewership is going to plummet.
On September 07 2014 22:37 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Well WCS AM is going to be dead to me after this, GSL is on too late for me to watch live. So I guess I'm gonna have to rely on WCS EU to watch.
I never understood why so many people wanted region lock like this? Sure it will promote maybe a bit of growth in the foreign scenes for a season or two, but after that the novelty of foreign players playing will wear off and viewership is going to plummet.
Furthermore, there would not even be a premier league, or champion's league, or world cup, if the lower leagues did not exist. They are needed as a place where teams can have a competitive format with realistic opposition.
On September 07 2014 14:29 Liquid`Snute wrote: Hopefully this won't cause too many Korean players to leave Europe. If they do, I know where I'll be getting my regular practice at least.
Play for CJ in Proleague? Because that would be so sick
On September 07 2014 22:37 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Well WCS AM is going to be dead to me after this, GSL is on too late for me to watch live. So I guess I'm gonna have to rely on WCS EU to watch.
I never understood why so many people wanted region lock like this? Sure it will promote maybe a bit of growth in the foreign scenes for a season or two, but after that the novelty of foreign players playing will wear off and viewership is going to plummet.
Furthermore, there would not even be a premier league, or champion's league, or world cup, if the lower leagues did not exist. They are needed as a place where teams can have a competitive format with realistic opposition.
But in the current WCS 2015, there is no "premier league" per se. Each region's WCS has the best in their region, but there is no "best in the world league".
Why are we comparing Starcraft to football? Football is established, mainstream and overflowing with money, unlike Starcraft. There's lots of room for lower leagues. Football is a physical sport, Starcraft is played online.
We already have "lower league" tournaments such as Go4SC2, Zotac, WTB and other events which I can't name off the top of my head but that clearly exist.
WCS is supposed to be premiere league for the foreign scene. Guess what? That's exactly what it is, WCS tournaments are stacked with good players and it's stupid to say that foreigners are under-represented in WCS. The truly good foreigners are there, in WCS AM / EU. You have online cups and such for the small fry and as far as I know it's doing well in those cups that gets you attention from teams as potential recruits.
Shoutcraft NA was a good example of how skill is important for viewership. Saying skill isn't the only drive for viewership is true, however saying skill isn't required for viewership is false. Skill is an ingredient so to say, an important one. It's not the only thing that counts, but it damn counts either way.
On September 07 2014 22:37 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Well WCS AM is going to be dead to me after this, GSL is on too late for me to watch live. So I guess I'm gonna have to rely on WCS EU to watch.
I never understood why so many people wanted region lock like this? Sure it will promote maybe a bit of growth in the foreign scenes for a season or two, but after that the novelty of foreign players playing will wear off and viewership is going to plummet.
I'm disappointed; "Soccer""!? Blasphemy! And I think he meant to say "Champions League" because the best national league obviously is the Primera Division.
On September 07 2014 22:37 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Well WCS AM is going to be dead to me after this, GSL is on too late for me to watch live. So I guess I'm gonna have to rely on WCS EU to watch.
I never understood why so many people wanted region lock like this? Sure it will promote maybe a bit of growth in the foreign scenes for a season or two, but after that the novelty of foreign players playing will wear off and viewership is going to plummet.
Furthermore, there would not even be a premier league, or champion's league, or world cup, if the lower leagues did not exist. They are needed as a place where teams can have a competitive format with realistic opposition.
But in the current WCS 2015, there is no "premier league" per se. Each region's WCS has the best in their region, but there is no "best in the world league".
There doesn't need to be perfect parity between soccer(football) and SC2 for the argument to hold water. Viewership is not directly based on skill level, or people wouldn't watch college ball or little league baseball(which is has its national championships broadcast on US cable TV) Viewership is about viewer investment in the players that are playing. That is why the Harvard/Yale America football game is a big deal for a set group of people every year.
On September 07 2014 22:37 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Well WCS AM is going to be dead to me after this, GSL is on too late for me to watch live. So I guess I'm gonna have to rely on WCS EU to watch.
I never understood why so many people wanted region lock like this? Sure it will promote maybe a bit of growth in the foreign scenes for a season or two, but after that the novelty of foreign players playing will wear off and viewership is going to plummet.
Furthermore, there would not even be a premier league, or champion's league, or world cup, if the lower leagues did not exist. They are needed as a place where teams can have a competitive format with realistic opposition.
But in the current WCS 2015, there is no "premier league" per se. Each region's WCS has the best in their region, but there is no "best in the world league".
There doesn't need to be perfect parity between soccer(football) and SC2 for the argument to hold water. Viewership is not directly based on skill level, or people wouldn't watch college ball or little league baseball(which is has its national championships broadcast on US cable TV) Viewership is about viewer investment in the players that are playing. That is why the Harvard/Yale America football game is a big deal for a set group of people every year.
Why wasn't Shoutcraft America a success in viewership then? Compare that to the Sandisk Shoutcraft.
On September 07 2014 22:37 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Well WCS AM is going to be dead to me after this, GSL is on too late for me to watch live. So I guess I'm gonna have to rely on WCS EU to watch.
I never understood why so many people wanted region lock like this? Sure it will promote maybe a bit of growth in the foreign scenes for a season or two, but after that the novelty of foreign players playing will wear off and viewership is going to plummet.
Furthermore, there would not even be a premier league, or champion's league, or world cup, if the lower leagues did not exist. They are needed as a place where teams can have a competitive format with realistic opposition.
But in the current WCS 2015, there is no "premier league" per se. Each region's WCS has the best in their region, but there is no "best in the world league".
There doesn't need to be perfect parity between soccer(football) and SC2 for the argument to hold water. Viewership is not directly based on skill level, or people wouldn't watch college ball or little league baseball(which is has its national championships broadcast on US cable TV) Viewership is about viewer investment in the players that are playing. That is why the Harvard/Yale America football game is a big deal for a set group of people every year.
Why wasn't Shoutcraft America a success in viewership then? Compare that to the Sandisk Shoutcraft.
I don't remember the specific reasons, but wasn't there an issue with it being on right after or around WCS and they couldn't compete. I think there were a number of issues with those events beyond not having Korea players. And that one event doing poorly does not mean the region locking will lead to no one watching WSC NA with fewer Korean players.
everyone* who cared about watching foreigners left sc2 a long time ago, let's not kid ourselves, most of the fans left are the "watch the best games" fans, because blizzard drove everyone else away and won't get them back.
On September 08 2014 00:05 Incognoto wrote: Why are we comparing Starcraft to football? Football is established, mainstream and overflowing with money, unlike Starcraft. There's lots of room for lower leagues. Football is a physical sport, Starcraft is played online.
We already have "lower league" tournaments such as Go4SC2, Zotac, WTB and other events which I can't name off the top of my head but that clearly exist.
WCS is supposed to be premiere league for the foreign scene. Guess what? That's exactly what it is, WCS tournaments are stacked with good players and it's stupid to say that foreigners are under-represented in WCS. The truly good foreigners are there, in WCS AM / EU. You have online cups and such for the small fry and as far as I know it's doing well in those cups that gets you attention from teams as potential recruits.
Shoutcraft NA was a good example of how skill is important for viewership. Saying skill isn't the only drive for viewership is true, however saying skill isn't required for viewership is false. Skill is an ingredient so to say, an important one. It's not the only thing that counts, but it damn counts either way.
This. Really sick and tired of people comparing Esports to mainstream sports. Mainstream sports are ran by major corp, and by politics now with global elite type money flowing through them vs Esports with hardly any money to support anything but a small scene of players.
So really all a game like Starcraft 2 has was it's high skill game play and showing who was the best of the best.
On September 08 2014 01:37 Cheren wrote: everyone* who cared about watching foreigners left sc2 a long time ago, let's not kid ourselves, most of the fans left are the "watch the best games" fans, because blizzard drove everyone else away and won't get them back.
*not really everyone but you get what i mean
WTB European currently has 11000 viewers with only foreigners and like a 4k prize pool.
If SC was treated like football we wouldn't have this problem anyway, because NA/EU would produce enough players who were on the level of the koreans. I can understand Blizzards decision, but I definitely don't like it.
On September 08 2014 02:04 CruelZeratul wrote: If SC was treated like football we wouldn't have this problem anyway, because NA/EU would produce enough players who were on the level of the koreans. I can understand Blizzards decision, but I definitely don't like it.
Korean volleyball leagues has a limit of, I think, 1 foreigner per team.
Korean basketball has a limit of 2 foreigners per team, and used to have a height limit (lol).
Are they wrong for protecting their native talent instead of becoming an NBA-b/c league?
And now we wait for the where people claim that you can't compare SC2 to normal sports because of XYZ reason and the great cycle of these argument continues.
On September 08 2014 01:37 Cheren wrote: everyone* who cared about watching foreigners left sc2 a long time ago, let's not kid ourselves, most of the fans left are the "watch the best games" fans, because blizzard drove everyone else away and won't get them back.
*not really everyone but you get what i mean
WTB European currently has 11000 viewers with only foreigners and like a 4k prize pool.
Everyone in this thread is saying shoutcraft america was a failure but it had a lot more than 11k viewers.
On September 08 2014 01:37 Cheren wrote: everyone* who cared about watching foreigners left sc2 a long time ago, let's not kid ourselves, most of the fans left are the "watch the best games" fans, because blizzard drove everyone else away and won't get them back.
*not really everyone but you get what i mean
WTB European currently has 11000 viewers with only foreigners and like a 4k prize pool.
Everyone in this thread is saying shoutcraft america was a failure but it had a lot more than 11k viewers.
Why the hell was it a failure then o_O? Did it have a massive prize pool or something? Or horrible games?
On September 08 2014 02:08 Plansix wrote: And now we wait for the where people claim that you can't compare SC2 to normal sports because of XYZ reason and the great cycle of these argument continues.
now we wait for plansix to come down on us puny mortals with his condescending attitude.
On September 08 2014 01:37 Cheren wrote: everyone* who cared about watching foreigners left sc2 a long time ago, let's not kid ourselves, most of the fans left are the "watch the best games" fans, because blizzard drove everyone else away and won't get them back.
*not really everyone but you get what i mean
I think people just dont give a fk about any tourney that is not super fun to watch. E.g. Dreamhack + IEM still gets the viewership it deserves. Theres too many tournaments with oversaturated amounts of Koreans to keep anyones attention, not that everyone has left, they just appear when the timing is right for viewership.
EPT
