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WCS AM will continue to include LatAm, Oceania/SEA, CN, and TW/HK/Macau, you can all stop freaking out about it. |
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 05 2014 11:05 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 11:02 stuchiu wrote:On September 05 2014 11:00 Wroshe wrote:
What is to stop koreans from getting a residency visa for NA countries not being USA/Canada (think mexico/colombia but more likely, Taiwan/Singapore/Malaysia) and take NA spots that way?
Also WCS EU will still be incredibly stacked with MC, First, Yoda, Jjakji, Stardust, Patience, Golden, ForGG and HYUN all living in europe under visa's that would allow them to participate. NA is hell to get a visa. I guess they can try to work around it and get a visa in China/Tw/Sea/Mx/Canada though and see if Blizzard lets them. I very well realise that getting a visa for Canada or the USA is incredibly hard. I however very much doubt that it would be as hard to get a visa for countries like Peru, Belize or Jamaica. Also there is currently a lucrative sounding loophole around which would involve getting a visa for Taiwan, play in all the local TeSL tournaments and take a spot in the Taiwanese qualifier for WCS NA.
Daisy is your WCS NA runner up!
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On September 05 2014 11:05 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 11:02 stuchiu wrote:On September 05 2014 11:00 Wroshe wrote:
What is to stop koreans from getting a residency visa for NA countries not being USA/Canada (think mexico/colombia but more likely, Taiwan/Singapore/Malaysia) and take NA spots that way?
Also WCS EU will still be incredibly stacked with MC, First, Yoda, Jjakji, Stardust, Patience, Golden, ForGG and HYUN all living in europe under visa's that would allow them to participate. NA is hell to get a visa. I guess they can try to work around it and get a visa in China/Tw/Sea/Mx/Canada though and see if Blizzard lets them. I very well realise that getting a visa for Canada or the USA is incredibly hard. I however very much doubt that it would be as hard to get a visa for countries like Peru, Belize or Jamaica. Also there is currently a lucrative sounding loophole around which would involve getting a visa for Taiwan, play in all the local TeSL tournaments and take a spot in the Taiwanese qualifier for WCS NA.
WCS Leenock/San?
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It's better for Starcraft overall if a single country doesn't dominate the scene entirely. There are two schools of thought when it comes to how foreigners can reach the skill levels necessary so that this ceases to be the case. One is the way that was done these past 2 years - force them to play each other, and eventually, they'll have to either learn or disappear. The other school of thought is this new one - give them something to compete for themselves, and a foreign competitive circuit can develop to the point where they can actually dedicate themselves to full-time paying and a dedicated training regiment.
Which one is right? What makes things work better for Starcraft? If I knew the answer to that, I'd be looking at a bus schedule to Irvine right now to tell Blizzard myself. They tried one, they're going to try the other. Sadly, any transition to support the foreigners will inevitably come at the expense of the Koreans, in the short term at minimum. That's the reality of it.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 05 2014 11:05 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 11:01 CakeSauc3 wrote:Wow, lame. Nothing will be fun to watch anymore except GSL again  There's always Pro League, that's what's keeping SC2 in Korea alive anyway. Without Kespa and PL the Korean scene would be pretty dead right about now.
NA was like 3 seconds from dying before WCS NA came along.
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I really want to see what their reasons are for region locking that way, because it won't even out the regions in terms of skill (as obviously it would do the opposite) or would it make the international audience watch WCS of all regions (again would do the opposite). If it was for making ladder a bigger part of the game again it still can't fix that.
It seems so negative overall, so I guess they need to explain the reasoning behind it.
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On September 05 2014 11:05 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 11:05 Wroshe wrote:On September 05 2014 11:02 stuchiu wrote:On September 05 2014 11:00 Wroshe wrote:
What is to stop koreans from getting a residency visa for NA countries not being USA/Canada (think mexico/colombia but more likely, Taiwan/Singapore/Malaysia) and take NA spots that way?
Also WCS EU will still be incredibly stacked with MC, First, Yoda, Jjakji, Stardust, Patience, Golden, ForGG and HYUN all living in europe under visa's that would allow them to participate. NA is hell to get a visa. I guess they can try to work around it and get a visa in China/Tw/Sea/Mx/Canada though and see if Blizzard lets them. I very well realise that getting a visa for Canada or the USA is incredibly hard. I however very much doubt that it would be as hard to get a visa for countries like Peru, Belize or Jamaica. Also there is currently a lucrative sounding loophole around which would involve getting a visa for Taiwan, play in all the local TeSL tournaments and take a spot in the Taiwanese qualifier for WCS NA. Daisy is your WCS NA runner up!
No way! San v Leenock finals! 
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People like Major,Desrow,Kane ect.. and the Chinese Pros are enjoying that change I guess.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 05 2014 11:06 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 11:05 Wroshe wrote:On September 05 2014 11:02 stuchiu wrote:On September 05 2014 11:00 Wroshe wrote:
What is to stop koreans from getting a residency visa for NA countries not being USA/Canada (think mexico/colombia but more likely, Taiwan/Singapore/Malaysia) and take NA spots that way?
Also WCS EU will still be incredibly stacked with MC, First, Yoda, Jjakji, Stardust, Patience, Golden, ForGG and HYUN all living in europe under visa's that would allow them to participate. NA is hell to get a visa. I guess they can try to work around it and get a visa in China/Tw/Sea/Mx/Canada though and see if Blizzard lets them. I very well realise that getting a visa for Canada or the USA is incredibly hard. I however very much doubt that it would be as hard to get a visa for countries like Peru, Belize or Jamaica. Also there is currently a lucrative sounding loophole around which would involve getting a visa for Taiwan, play in all the local TeSL tournaments and take a spot in the Taiwanese qualifier for WCS NA. WCS Leenock/San?
One of my fondest memories of the firs WCS announcement was that eveyr Korean showed up on twitter and called Polt a God for moving to America. Leenock specifically said, "Is this the Genius play of a Seoul niversity Student?" Now it's Leenock's turn.
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On September 05 2014 11:06 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 11:05 Dodgin wrote:On September 05 2014 11:01 CakeSauc3 wrote:Wow, lame. Nothing will be fun to watch anymore except GSL again There's always Pro League, that's what's keeping SC2 in Korea alive anyway. Without Kespa and PL the Korean scene would be pretty dead right about now. NA was like 3 seconds from dying before WCS NA came along.
Some would argue it's still just as dead, but It's not as obvious.
Mostly thanks to Red Bull.
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On September 05 2014 11:06 Circumstance wrote:
It's better for Starcraft overall if a single country doesn't dominate the scene entirely. There are two schools of thought when it comes to how foreigners can reach the skill levels necessary so that this ceases to be the case. One is the way that was done these past 2 years - force them to play each other, and eventually, they'll have to either learn or disappear. The other school of thought is this new one - give them something to compete for themselves, and a foreign competitive circuit can develop to the point where they can actually dedicate themselves to full-time paying and a dedicated training regiment.
Which one is right? What makes things work better for Starcraft? If I knew the answer to that, I'd be looking at a bus schedule to Irvine right now to tell Blizzard myself. They tried one, they're going to try the other. Sadly, any transition to support the foreigners will inevitably come at the expense of the Koreans, in the short term at minimum. That's the reality of it.
It wouldn't be a problem if the Koreans spoke perfect English.
The real issue is that the best players are from a completely different culture from where most of the fans are from. Koreans are insular for the most part but western fans love drama.
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On September 05 2014 11:06 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 11:05 Dodgin wrote:On September 05 2014 11:01 CakeSauc3 wrote:Wow, lame. Nothing will be fun to watch anymore except GSL again There's always Pro League, that's what's keeping SC2 in Korea alive anyway. Without Kespa and PL the Korean scene would be pretty dead right about now. NA was like 3 seconds from dying before WCS NA came along.
If the NA scene couldn't survive in 2011/2012 when there was money for the scene, why should it survive now?
Even the weekly tournaments for the NA scene have gone, like Go4Sc2.
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On September 05 2014 11:06 Circumstance wrote:
It's better for Starcraft overall if a single country doesn't dominate the scene entirely. There are two schools of thought when it comes to how foreigners can reach the skill levels necessary so that this ceases to be the case. One is the way that was done these past 2 years - force them to play each other, and eventually, they'll have to either learn or disappear. The other school of thought is this new one - give them something to compete for themselves, and a foreign competitive circuit can develop to the point where they can actually dedicate themselves to full-time paying and a dedicated training regiment.
Which one is right? What makes things work better for Starcraft? If I knew the answer to that, I'd be looking at a bus schedule to Irvine right now to tell Blizzard myself. They tried one, they're going to try the other. Sadly, any transition to support the foreigners will inevitably come at the expense of the Koreans, in the short term at minimum. That's the reality of it.
except they tried that with WCS in 2012
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On September 05 2014 11:06 Synchro wrote:
I really want to see what their reasons are for region locking that way, because it won't even out the regions in terms of skill (as obviously it would do the opposite) or would it make the international audience watch WCS of all regions (again would do the opposite). If it was for making ladder a bigger part of the game again it still can't fix that.
It seems so negative overall, so I guess they need to explain the reasoning behind it.
you cant say something just wont happen. i agree there is an issue with getting people to watch local competition ("local" meaning lower level compared to korean play obviously) as TB and others have proven, but you never know. blizz could have a new marketing plan lined up to promote international play or something like that.
i dont think this change was necessary but its silly to say it can only work out negatively, obviously to change from their previous plan they must have something in mind. at least we can only hope. if this is just a delayed YOLO reaction to the pro-foreigner fanbase then yeah it will end badly
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Some point that I have been thinking of.
How difficult is it to get a working visa in SEA countries or China. I am from Singapore and we have a higher than 1/3 population of foreigners. Granted they are doing mostly lower wage jobs. But if there aren't many slots for qualification it does not even matter.
I also have always been of the opinion that the scene was over saturated with players. Our scene was not built from the ground up but rather started with players of another game. We always had too many players trying to go pro for the scene to support. However, I feel that this is not the way to remove the "excess" players. The Korean scene, which seems to be growing well this year, will have to shrink and many players will have to retire. I think even some kespa teams will be affected as powerhouses like JD taeja HerO will all return to Korea, taking a precious WCS slot from an up and coming new player.
This will also also most likely end all hope of a foreign team joining proleague too. So who knows how proleague will run now.
I think a region lock where the player has to play all rounds on Lan will be good enough. This may cause our already vulnerable scene to be weaker.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 05 2014 11:06 Circumstance wrote:
It's better for Starcraft overall if a single country doesn't dominate the scene entirely. There are two schools of thought when it comes to how foreigners can reach the skill levels necessary so that this ceases to be the case. One is the way that was done these past 2 years - force them to play each other, and eventually, they'll have to either learn or disappear. The other school of thought is this new one - give them something to compete for themselves, and a foreign competitive circuit can develop to the point where they can actually dedicate themselves to full-time paying and a dedicated training regiment.
Which one is right? What makes things work better for Starcraft? If I knew the answer to that, I'd be looking at a bus schedule to Irvine right now to tell Blizzard myself. They tried one, they're going to try the other. Sadly, any transition to support the foreigners will inevitably come at the expense of the Koreans, in the short term at minimum. That's the reality of it.
There is a third school of thought. Do what Riot does and forcibly split the regions from Korea so that the fans are dumb enough to believe each year that their teams can maybe beat the koreans before being utterly smashed. Rinse and repeat for years.
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On September 05 2014 11:10 Firestorm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 11:06 stuchiu wrote:On September 05 2014 11:05 Dodgin wrote:On September 05 2014 11:01 CakeSauc3 wrote:Wow, lame. Nothing will be fun to watch anymore except GSL again There's always Pro League, that's what's keeping SC2 in Korea alive anyway. Without Kespa and PL the Korean scene would be pretty dead right about now. NA was like 3 seconds from dying before WCS NA came along. If the NA scene couldn't survive in 2011/2012 when there was money for the scene, why should it survive now? Even the weekly tournaments for the NA scene have gone, like Go4Sc2.
The NA scene was doing fine in 2011/2012.
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On September 05 2014 11:05 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 11:02 stuchiu wrote:On September 05 2014 11:00 Wroshe wrote:
What is to stop koreans from getting a residency visa for NA countries not being USA/Canada (think mexico/colombia but more likely, Taiwan/Singapore/Malaysia) and take NA spots that way?
Also WCS EU will still be incredibly stacked with MC, First, Yoda, Jjakji, Stardust, Patience, Golden, ForGG and HYUN all living in europe under visa's that would allow them to participate. NA is hell to get a visa. I guess they can try to work around it and get a visa in China/Tw/Sea/Mx/Canada though and see if Blizzard lets them. I very well realise that getting a visa for Canada or the USA is incredibly hard. I however very much doubt that it would be as hard to get a visa for countries like Peru, Belize or Jamaica. Also there is currently a lucrative sounding loophole around which would involve getting a visa for Taiwan, play in all the local TeSL tournaments and take a spot in the Taiwanese qualifier for WCS NA.
Get a visa then stay in Peru/Belize/Jamaica to practice starcraft? Relocate to another country is a huge huge move for anyone even if it's for studying/working. You consider it too lightly imo
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While aware of the complexity of the discussion (the pros and cons having been dissected many times). I have to admit that I am very disappointed. Following Koreans in WCS EU and US has been the biggest reason for me to watch these events, so I feel I am much less likely to take an interest in them after the region lock.
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On September 05 2014 11:12 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 11:06 Synchro wrote:
I really want to see what their reasons are for region locking that way, because it won't even out the regions in terms of skill (as obviously it would do the opposite) or would it make the international audience watch WCS of all regions (again would do the opposite). If it was for making ladder a bigger part of the game again it still can't fix that.
It seems so negative overall, so I guess they need to explain the reasoning behind it. you cant say something just wont happen. i agree there is an issue with getting people to watch local competition ("local" meaning lower level compared to korean play obviously) as TB and others have proven, but you never know. blizz could have a new marketing plan lined up to promote international play or something like that. i dont think this change was necessary but its silly to say it can only work out negatively, obviously to change from their previous plan they must have something in mind. at least we can only hope. if this is just a delayed YOLO reaction to the pro-foreigner fanbase then yeah it will end badly
Agreed. That's why I want to see what the reason behind it is.
And because I want to see Jaedong dominate them NA tourneys and rise from the grave! 
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On September 05 2014 11:13 Hatsu wrote:
While aware of the complexity of the discussion (the pros and cons having been dissected many times). I have to admit that I am very disappointed. Following Koreans in WCS EU and US has been the biggest reason for me to watch these events, so I feel I am much less likely to take an interest in them after the region lock.
WCS EU will barely be impacted if at all by this change. Hyun is a very possible addition as he has a valid EU Visa and the only ones who don't seem to have one are San and MMA.
Source on that last one: TB in his soundcloud referred to MMA being able to say if Acer were to figure something out, indicating that he currently has not got a valid Visa.
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EPT
