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On August 12 2014 02:52 IndigoS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 01:56 Destiny wrote:
This has nothing to do with "lolbutthurt" or "omg feelings" and it's 100% business related. If you are too scared to take part in the initial round of investment for a company then why on earth would you go back to the company later hoping to reap the same rewards that initial investors got? Well, it was clearly a poor business decision on the part of KeSPA to have not contributed towards Destiny I, but it seems to me that it would now make perfect sense for them to want to get on board. Obviously this is a bit of a scumbag move, but the logical decision nevertheless.
I wonder why it was poor business decision on their side. You will not get Real Madrid to play against your regional team also...
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From a business standpoint you should try your luck with kespa again, you can always say gtfo to them if they want more than sending players. Having players like flash and zest in there could increase the viewership like 10k+
You had good production and casters except the few little issues you mentioned.
Having popular koreans(not necessarily better ones) along with some foreigners is the best way to go imo
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I would ask Kespa again, but only if there are some spots left over. Aside from that the tournament worked great, don't see a reason to change to much.
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I'm not against KESPA in the next tournament because of their response to this one, but simply because I'd be more likely to watch if the players were foreigners.
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Transparency is awesome. Tourney was fun to watch. I hope Kespa will play nicely next time and we can see some of their players.
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Wow, this was really illuminating. Cool stuff.
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Going to write my comments on here since anonymous redditors always seem to have a quick trigger finger for the downvote arrow even when you know it doesn't deserve it. I don't expect a response but if you read this then that's good enough for me
I didn't think I would watch much of it, but given how things went progressively well (minus the stuff outside your control) from Day 1, I'm glad I tuned in for most of it (while simultaneously watching DOTA 2 streamers too). I'm glad it was a success overall from a viewer standpoint, and I will gladly tune in to your next one when the time comes.
That said, people have already commented on your lack of knowledge in certain matchups when you casted, which is definitely something you should work on . But the bigger issue I had, and I'm surprised most people don't say this much is... profanity. Maybe you feel comfortable using it during this tournament (or MLG a few months ago for that matter) to help you get into the flow, but if you say you're trying to keep things professional, how about cutting it? It doesn't entirely offend me, but I mean it's just awkward and somewhat cringeworthy to hear it when I read you're trying to make your event look professional.
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On August 12 2014 02:52 IndigoS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 01:56 Destiny wrote:
This has nothing to do with "lolbutthurt" or "omg feelings" and it's 100% business related. If you are too scared to take part in the initial round of investment for a company then why on earth would you go back to the company later hoping to reap the same rewards that initial investors got? Well, it was clearly a poor business decision on the part of KeSPA to have not contributed towards Destiny I, but it seems to me that it would now make perfect sense for them to want to get on board. Obviously this is a bit of a scumbag move, but the logical decision nevertheless.
Destiny nearly had a nervous breakdown and suspended the tournament. I don't it's obvious in retrospect that KeSPA was in the wrong here. They were hesitant to endorse a tournament organized by someone inexperienced, the actual event illustrated some of the concerns, and in the future they can reevaluate their decision based on Destiny's new-found experience and proven track record of being able to organize.
I just don't understand the logic of wanting to punish KeSPA for their decision of not believing in Destiny initially. That's an extreme attitude, imo, business typically doesn't work like this and it's the kind of attitude that will not serve you well long-term. Businesses like KeSPA are somewhat abstract entities that operate according to rationalist-based principles and you have to treat them that way. They're not your best friend that scorned you when you invited him to a party.
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On August 12 2014 03:11 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 02:52 IndigoS wrote:On August 12 2014 01:56 Destiny wrote:
This has nothing to do with "lolbutthurt" or "omg feelings" and it's 100% business related. If you are too scared to take part in the initial round of investment for a company then why on earth would you go back to the company later hoping to reap the same rewards that initial investors got? Well, it was clearly a poor business decision on the part of KeSPA to have not contributed towards Destiny I, but it seems to me that it would now make perfect sense for them to want to get on board. Obviously this is a bit of a scumbag move, but the logical decision nevertheless. Destiny nearly had a nervous breakdown and suspended the tournament. I don't it's obvious in retrospect that KeSPA was in the wrong here. They were hesitant to endorse a tournament organized by someone inexperienced, the actual event illustrated some of the concerns, and in the future they can reevaluate their decision based on Destiny's new-found experience and proven track record of being able to organize. I just don't understand the logic of wanting to punish KeSPA for their decision of not believing in Destiny initially. That's an extreme attitude, imo, business typically doesn't work like this and it's the kind of attitude that will not serve you well long-term. Businesses like KeSPA are somewhat abstract entities that operate according to rationalist-based principles and you have to treat them that way. They're not your best friend that scorned you when you invited him to a party.
This. Sometimes you have to do business with people you don't like.
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wow such passion
Keep it up!
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Why should Destiny want to include Kespa to reap the rewards? It's like having an initial investor. Why wouldn't he want to bring back the people/teams or those like them who gave the time and effort to make this the initial success? This can also give others the opportunity to shine as opposed to just Kespa players. Additionally, the viewer spike from Kespa players isn't going to be as substantial as people believe. What causes the biggest increase in viewership is the closeness of the games aka clutch plays, the quality of the tournament itself from production and casters, and the reputation from previous success. There are plenty enough popular players not from Korea that can draw in viewers if that is the main concern.
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Russian Federation232 Posts
it was an amazing tournament, the days where ToD, Incontrol and QXC were casting were my absolutely favorites.
ToD is very knowledgeable but also very funny, Incontrol is straight up hilarious and when he laughs its impossible not to, and QXC has very technical analysis of the game (and always spot on) which I truly appreciate. In combo with Destiny which was also pretty hilarious throughout the tournament it made it for a very fun and pleasing spectating experience.
It was very refreshing compared to the "regular casting" because it was a bit more informal, but not so much like HSC where sometimes it drifts off topic for huge amount of times.
I watched all days and I did not donate, but I will for the next round.
P.S. funniest moment for me is when Destiny makes his redneck voice pretending the other player is still in the game even tho he's clearly dead ahaha always makes my day.
Thanks Destiny and all the other casters !
p.p.s I wish you chose someone else for final other than Minigun. He seems a nice guy but he lacked the charisma of basically every single caster before him and being the finals the most important match I'd save an Incontrol or a Tod for the semis + Finals, just my two cents
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Regarding the Kespa question I would personally be more interested in the tournament with some top tier Kespa pros. Love or hate the organisation but they do have the most exciting players. (I only watched 1 day of Destiny 1 this time).
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
I don't think there is any rational reason for not inviting the Kespa players.
I think Kespa were totally within their rights to not participate in a first time tournament with no recognizable/experienced organisation behind it. Of course the Destiny brand is strong but I can understand potential misgivings that Kespa may have had.
Now you can go to Kespa with great tournament feedback and strong viewer numbers and invite them again. They will help boost viewer numbers and raise the tournament up to a new level.
Putting aside personal feelings I can't see any gain from not inviting them
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Really respect your transparency Destiny. I watched a fair portion of the tournament, and the finals as well, which were a little disappointing in terms of the games, but not a surprise. I didn't contribute to the tournament, but will definitely do so for the next one. In that respect, I guess Kespa can claim they were coming from the same angle 
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very awesome, good luck and hope to see more!
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The Destiny paycheck of 1800$ seems fine to me for all the work leading up to it and many sleep deprived times during the event 
Yay for transparency too, If Destiny starts overcharging "us" someone else can step up and try make a better tournament for cheaper or we can just be minus an event.
As for KESPA, I too would think they could at least let a few B-teamers participate without any negative effects, so they must mostly be concerned/paranoid about helping someone else grow a brand they have no investment in or influence over?
I wish they could add up that
1) The big majority of the moneys goes to the players
2) This sort of thing should in general be good for the scene
3) If KESPA B-teamers add a lot of value to Destiny II tournament and makes it an even bigger success, KESPA will have SOME influence over Destiny III etc.
But maybe I am missing 4) 5) and 6) that somehow subtracts a lot.
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Also, $1,800 for what was essentially more than 6 days' worth of work (I'm assuming these were not even regular working hours, that are non-repeating) is next to nothing, at least from an American perspective.
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Welp. You're awesome mr. Destiny. Love me some transparency.
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8748 Posts
Have some unrelated (to finances) feedback: the ladder qualifier occurred too early in the season to be an ideal ladder qualifier. I think we have a good ladder system but it doesn't really start giving accurate rankings until later in the season. At the start of a season, players have high MMR carried over from the previous season (or they quickly achieve high MMR from a fresh account because fresh accounts are more volatile) and so every game they play against similar (high MMR) opponents results in risk-free points. Players lose only a few points for a loss and gain around 20 points for a win. This situation gradually disappears as MMR and actual points converge. But I think that didn't fully happen for the qualifier. Competitors who played at a time of day when finding high MMR opponents is common could win 50% of their games against a top 25 player and get "free" points, putting themselves in a better position to go for top 8 without really proving themselves as worthy of a top 8 position.
I was sort of on-and-off taking the ladder seriously while the qualifier was going on and noticed that I was playing at a really terrible time for being competitive on the ladder. For several games in a row I'd play against players giving me 2-4 points for a win, which would mean winning ~30 games straight just to go up 100 points when I was several hundred points back from the top of the ladder. And then Huk started playing and I matched against him 5 times and went 2-3 and we both netted points from the exchange. I think he was even still gaining more points than he was losing because his actual points hadn't caught up to my MMR yet. And that was late enough in the season that those were games contributing to him securing top 8.
Even though you vetted match histories to check for win trading, natural win trading still took place. A bunch of high MMR players playing at the same time and only matching against each other all boost each other up, while players who play at a different time of day or don't have high enough MMR yet get left in the dust. Having the qualifier end closer to the end of the ladder season alleviates this issue. I also think that if one of your goals is improving the ladder in general then you accomplish that better by ending your qualifier nearer (or simultaneous) with the end of the Blizzard ladder season.
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EPT
