EPTI feel the muta ball is a bit too strong ZvT once it goes above 20 mutas. Maybe remove or slow down regen? Also QXCs creep suggestion is a good one aswell, have it spread faster but also recede faster.
Pro Opinions: Proposed Terran Buffs - Page 4
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
I feel the muta ball is a bit too strong ZvT once it goes above 20 mutas. Maybe remove or slow down regen? Also QXCs creep suggestion is a good one aswell, have it spread faster but also recede faster. | ||
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SirPinky
United States525 Posts
On July 06 2014 08:28 ilikeredheads wrote: I think Blizzard has time and time again shown that either they have no idea what they are doing or they are so arrogant that they don't listen to the pro's opinion. It's not about their ability to balance it, I just don't think they care. It's complete apathy. They are throwing darts on a board. They have taken a laissez-faire approach to the game where they are relying on the community to tell them if a balance change is required. Once they see a nerf/buff is required they put all the possible Terran upgrades into a hat, put their blindfold on and pick one. I'm surprised Building Armor upgrade hasn't been chosen yet. I've come to this realization after the latest map pool: All of them were created by the community. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing, but it is clear Blizzard has absolutely no interest in improving or introducing new maps. Perhaps the same mentality stands for the balance of the game. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On July 06 2014 08:24 Undead1993 wrote: I actually agree with nerchio, we need another game, at least a new expansion, blizzard fucked that up waaay too much. when they try to fix it it will only get worse. i was playing wol the other day and i have to say WOL was a much better game than HOTS ever was. really? PvZ was atricous, and so was TvZ. only thing really which was better is TvT other mirrors sucked, and TvP is roughly equal | ||
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BoX
United States214 Posts
That'd help vs mutas, it'd help vs mass banelings, and it'd be usable in all match-ups if it effected all "biological" units? Or if it just effected protoss/zerg? Anyway just a random thought that occurred to me. | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5522 Posts
On July 06 2014 06:48 pure.Wasted wrote: Dear Blizzard, Can you tell that the pros are every bit as god damn fucking tired of band aid solutions as the rest of us? Please do enough work over the course of an expansion to justify its cost the way you did with WC3. Mech still isn't viable 4 years later. This is not OK. It's broken. Fix it. That's what your job is. Just because you didn't get it right when HOTS shipped doesn't mean you get to take a break until LOTV. That's not how screwing up your job works. Buffing Medivac speed is an asshole thing to do because it further cements that Terran can't play a straight up game without doing crazy aggression. How about you make Terran playable without needing all those Medivac drops, buffed or otherwise? How about you make macro mech work in TvZ without Ravens? Thanks. Very sincerely, People Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What is this and I like it. If you like that Terran would never be able to complain about Warp Prisms ever again :D Cool ideas from Snute though, he's one of them thinkers. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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Penguinator
United States837 Posts
In all honesty, I think Blizzard does this on purpose. I've noticed it a few other times when they suggest changes. They first start out with completely over the top ridiculous ideas that almost everyone in the community agrees are complete bullshit, and then they revise those changes to something more reasonable. That way when people see the "revised" changes compared to what the original idea was, they're much more likely to accept the changes. | ||
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IVOeu
107 Posts
Too bad blizzard wont to anything about it tho | ||
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Pino
1032 Posts
On July 06 2014 07:10 darkness wrote: I sometimes watch Mana's stream, and he loses quite a lot against terran at 15-20 min, so it's possibly him. Gimme the name of the Terran that has 15+ orbitals at the 20 min mark  . Seriously Terran need a better way to deal with mass muta bane in the late game, whether it is through ghosts or thors, or both. I also feel that turrets upgrades should be better. I tend to agree with qxc as the creep spreading and receding faster would be a great idea. It would put the better player ahead, and Terran wouldn't be super dead if he let the creep spread too much And I feel like Mana is suuuuuuuper biased about PvT late game, or the only Terran he's playing is Taeja and he has lost all sense of balance. | ||
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Dingodile
4132 Posts
On July 06 2014 08:56 Paljas wrote: really? PvZ was atricous, and so was TvZ. only thing really which was better is TvT other mirrors sucked, and TvP is roughly equal I agree with Undead1993, all HotS units except Viper are terrible units. I want WoL with HotS fungal, hydra speed, P with HotS Voidrays and T with speedivacs. | ||
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Fission
Canada1184 Posts
On July 06 2014 09:13 Pino wrote: Gimme the name of the Terran that has 15+ orbitals at the 20 min mark . EmpireHappy | ||
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Twine
France246 Posts
It's just my opinion of course . | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On July 06 2014 09:18 Dingodile wrote: I agree with Undead1993, all HotS units except Viper are terrible units. I want WoL with HotS fungal, hydra speed, P with HotS Voidrays and T with speedivacs. PvT would be heavily imbalanced though. | ||
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Dreamer.T
United States3584 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Imo fighting Protoss warp-in mechanics (which are... questionable already) with Terran's own warp-in mechanics isn't the way to go about it. | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
1 - First of all - MorroW got away with a Troll like a boss  Property.MorroW: I think there is a problem in TvZ. Property.MorroW: i think TvP is pretty ok but scv pulls are very strong on some of the maps. the new ladder map pool it will be easier for Protoss to defend. LOL 2 - Gained a lot of respect for qxc (always regarded him heavily Terran biased, though being one these days isn't as "dangerous" as it used to be in the GomTvT era of WoL) - he said a very VERY good solution for the PO of MSC - both buffing it (in terms of being able to use more Timewarp) as well as nerfing it in the same time, (for the Terran being able to drill upon).. What's even better - that one coL_qxc: Scouting is very hard in TvP. If you're a bit unlucky with your scans or scouting or the Protoss is a bit trickier/skilled at denying scouting than most it can feel impossible to prepare correctly. I don't know if it's a problem as much as a design flaw, but I think photon overcharge needs a slight rework. Right now it feels excessively strong and prevents a huge amount of early aggression from Terran. I think if photon overcharge cost 50 mana, lasted 40 seconds and had a 60 second cooldown it could be a move in the right direction. This creates more windows of vulnerability while also allowing the Protoss more opportunities to use time warp as a single spell use wouldn't be as expensive which would hopefully create more dynamic play. I don't like end game vs protoss, but that might just be me. Warp gate has always been incredibly frustrating - especially warp prism play. 10 zealot & 3 dt warp-in in my main feels so dumb. Often this match-up feels incredibly easy to lose and nearly impossible to win if it goes to the late game as storm prevents major counter attacks while losing a single engagement as Terran often seems to end the game completely. I don't know how or if this needs to be fixed, but that's my observation. ALSO THIS ONE - nails it IMO - Terran's weakness is more due to inflexibility in changing tech and lack of late game tech options ..That's they way it really feels - Terran can't "transition" well enough rather than use well enough what they got 3 - Like A LOT the opinion below (check my posts - been saying Tempests need to be nerfed, surprisingly at least someone good at the game agrees on that one, yaaaay) EG.Xenocider: TvP right now is basically just drill into the Protoss so that you don't get into the late game. The threat of Tempests and more importantly templar make TvP ridiculously hard in the late game. I talked to bbyong and he said that TvP lategame is hard mostly because of feedback which is devastating to packs of ghosts. It's hard to say whether midgame is favored in either way because in the current meta game it's just a stalemate between early blink stalkers and drops. In the early game Protoss more openings than Terran but it's not really that important if the Terran plays well. 4 - MaNa - well - a bit Protoss biased (the lack of variety of gameplay after the WMine buff - though he's right, sounded like "whining" at an era when Protoss is considered widely superior).. But that slap in the face of DK was actually the real eye-opener, respect for that one sir Yeah - this answer right here, lol --> Liquid`MaNa: Both of them are complete bullshit in my opinion. I don't understand the thought proccess from Blizzard in that regard. Terran is the strongest race in the midgame and surviving that part as the opposite race is very hard. Therefor, they don't need any new solution in middle game. So, what Blizzard decides to do? Buff terran middle game units even more than before. This is something close to the previous potential lowering cost of Hydralisk. As much as I respect Blizzard for their work, I wish they would show some knowledge about the game rather than explaning "this unit is exciting to watch". 5 - Dima, lol.. That's a very good observation - PDD DOES block the matchup A LOT, BUT - the question you were asked is how to help TERRAN, not how to help ZvT, lol Cascade_DIMAGA: I think Zerg struggling against PDD nowadays in really late game vs ravens/vikings combo, so i think we need some sort of anti-energy unit or spell for Zerg(you could say you have fungal, but in real games especially when terran just turtle as hell its not working cause of tanks 13 range),so if we will have something like feedback or emp or anything similar to that it would be great. And 6 - Snute's looking a pretty hardcore "community biased", lol.. What do you think Blizzard should target with their changes to help Terran? Liquid`Snute: - Improve the Siege Tank overall. - Medivacs could be able to pick up tanks in siege mode? With or without the siege retained. (Though must say that feels very odd, would rather give a +1 range and +5 more damage vs Armored of the Siege-Tank, and see how it goes, lol) ================================================================ OVERALL = IT'S GREAT to hear that Pros don't "differ" much than us "mere mortals" in having opinion on the matter.. TBH, helps a lot, and thanks a lot Thanks to the TL staff for making this one possible.. Feels like we're not "off the mark" as a community in general TBH :D | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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SuperHofmann
Italy1741 Posts
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
On July 06 2014 09:18 Dingodile wrote: I agree with Undead1993, all HotS units except Viper are terrible units. I want WoL with HotS fungal, hydra speed, P with HotS Voidrays and T with speedivacs. The saddest part is that the old games get abbandoned due to bad periods that happened before that "final shape" that would've worked well if it was given a bit more time though.. WoL for example with the 2 Infestor nerfs got rid of the BLord-Infestor (although still strong - wasn't OP anymore, as opposed to the 6 month total Zerg domination era just before) - after the 2 latest Infestor nerfs, game got like 80% better.. BUT - everyone stopped playing WoL, and transitioned to HotS (understandable though).. NOW - same story yet again - just when we're about to see (hopefully) proper Tank buffs and good matchup "variety tech ratio" for each of the races - then in that moment LotV will come out, lol | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 06 2014 10:45 VArsovskiSC wrote: The saddest part is that the old games get abbandoned due to bad periods whilest they're probably in the best shape possible in which we'd liked to have them gotten.. WoL for example with the 2 Infestor nerfs got rid of the BLord-Infestor (although still strong - wasn't OP anymore) after the 2 latest Infestor nerfs, but everyone stopped and transitioned to HotS.. NOW - same story yet again - just when we're about to see (hopefully) proper Tank buffs and good matchup "variety tech ratio" for each of the races - then in that moment LotV will come out, lol It looked promising for ZvP since ITs were such a huge part of it and the "no upgrades" was just a huge blow to the infestor only lategames. But TvZ was still in shambles. ITs weren't such a big deal, and 8range fungal only meant that you might have lost an infestor once in a while to some stimmed bio, but didn't change that you would just hit the Terran right during his viking build up with BL/Corruptor and then stomp down the vikings with infestors. | ||
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