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DrunkeN.
United States406 Posts
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Cheeseling
Ukraine132 Posts
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kiralykobra
Romania7 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:24 Picasso wrote: How many toss players will have to beat you in TvT in realize your claim is just bs? If you really think toss is that easy plz go play toss on ladder and see how high you get in 1v1 ladder. Even with a bit of practice, it definitely won't be higher than what you achieved as Terran. Remember SjoW thinking toss was so OP and thereby switching to Protoss? I hope you remember how successful that was. Oh wait, but with OP GOSU TERRAN MECHANICS he should've been automatically top 16 GM on the server, no? What went wrong, I thought toss was just 1A and freewin? hahaha SjoW is a bad player compared to other pros so it doesn't matter what he plays BUT I say that is he would have played Protoss from the beggining he would have reached better results, and no i know that Protoss isn't freewin and requires lot's of skill. Scarlett did beat DRG with Protoss at MLG now so i don't know why are you giving me exaples of switching races. BTW if a Terran and a Protoss switch race with identical skill and play a PvT with races switched the Protoss still wins.. I have tested this with my friend,master leauge both of us so yeah... Protoss is stronger than Terran no doubt | ||
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ETisME
12680 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:30 kiralykobra wrote: hahaha SjoW is a bad player compared to other pros so it doesn't matter what he plays BUT I say that is he would have played Protoss from the beggining he would have reached better results, and no i know that Protoss isn't freewin and requires lot's of skill. Scarlett did beat DRG with Protoss at MLG now so i don't know why are you giving me exaples of switching races. BTW if a Terran and a Protoss switch race with identical skill and play a PvT with races switched the Protoss still wins.. I have tested this with my friend,master leauge both of us so yeah... Protoss is stronger than Terran no doubt minigun beat major when both switched race and scarlett beat drg when she switches to protoss. balanced? | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On June 29 2014 21:05 diverzee wrote: It has been obvious for a long time that Terran is too weak. My very favourite matchup is ZvT, but watching foreign zergs beat Korean terrans makes it difficult to enjoy it, and I watch less and less Starcraft nowadays. The same foreigners also win against Korean protoss and Zerg, so I don't really see the point. | ||
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stevorino
957 Posts
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Nezgar
Germany535 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:27 DrunkeN. wrote: Great read. I've been upset with Blizzards lack of changes. Try something anything Blizz. We are not scared of change but they are. Dude, this is basically the exact opposite of what most knowledgeable people demand from Blizzard. Most people agree that their greatest mistake is trying to overly balance the game, leaving it in a very unstable state throughout its lifespan. On June 29 2014 21:59 TheScriptan wrote: So you are saying that the game is balanced and nothing is needed to investigate and this thread might make DK to nerf Protoss/Zerg and Buff Terran? You did read my post, didn't you? I specifically stated that there are issues with Terran that need to be addressed. In fact, that was the only thing I said about the balance of the game and about nerfing, buffing or waving your dick in other peoples faces. The tone and the purpose of that article is what I question, because it leads to even more witch-hunting and balance whine. We already have more than enough of that at teamliquid.net, thank you. If I want more of it, I'd visit the twitch chat... | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:32 Vanadiel wrote: The same foreigners also win against Korean protoss and Zerg, so I don't really see the point. Ya, continue down your logic path now and point out the foreign Terrans beating Korean Protoss and Zergs? Get the point now? | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
But props for the hard work, i would hate to see less and less terrans in tournaments and ladder games. However this game was overpatched, 45% winrate for a matchup should not be a big deal, but when it happens people say "x race is clearly imba and should be nerfed". While its true we had balance issues there is no need to cry about it for months until David Kim "fix" the game. Terran was OP beyond aceptable levels (from my perspective) for a few months, as soon as the game was released. They fixed and it was all good. But Hots is going to be remembered as a game that was never done, since big balance patches are done because a race wins 55% of the time. Change the map pool, fix only what is harmful for the game. All those patches to "fix" the slightly favoured terran race in early Hots simply created other issues. Hots is in beta stage, they just sold it in advance, hopefully LotV is going to be a more stable game. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:33 Nezgar wrote: You did read my post, didn't you? I specifically stated that there are issues with Terran that need to be addressed. In fact, that was the only thing I said about the balance of the game and about nerfing, buffing or waving your dick in other peoples faces. The tone and the purpose of that article is what I question, because it leads to even more witch-hunting and balance whine. We already have more than enough of that at teamliquid.net, thank you. If I want more of it, I'd visit the twitch chat... If you don't like what the facts highlight then don't read them.. "let's please censor this because it makes me sad". "Based on this we'll get "WITCHHUNTING" and possibly "BALANCE PATCHES THAT MIGHT FIX THE GAME!?" Mind blown. | ||
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MyZioN
Sweden46 Posts
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Morrissey
Germany55 Posts
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Mutineer
New Zealand179 Posts
I did not see any statistic from start of HOTS. No one publish then any more. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:26 DomeGetta wrote: To the dude who says "the problem with this article is that it says one thing is broken and then talks about a bunch of other things ...etc" Are you honestly confused by why he's listing the cumulative attributes of a race that create imbalance? No one or two mechanics make a matchup broken.. it is the culmination of all the options. You could have left BL/infestor totally alone in WOL - remove the queen buff / reduce an early game option for zerg to bring it closer to balance without touching either "broken mechanic" This article is a long time coming and very well done.. I love the reaction of some of you idiots though.. it's incredible.. even if this doesn't help blizzard realize how badly they screwed up it's totally worth it to get to see peoples delusions about how good they are at the game and how "terrans just need to man up" disappear at the foot of a long list of facts and games that actually happened. You can say what you want about his opinion of the games and the stats, but both the stats and the games are real. The majority of you whining about this aren't even debating anything in the article with your own stats, your own games to illustrate your point. All you are saying to anyone with a moderate IQ reading your words about "this is just toxic and untrue and bad for the community!!" is - "please no why did you do this.. I really had convinced myself I was that much better than my Terran opponents - this makes it seem like I possibly have an unfair advantage..I might actually have to come to grips with that now and get better at the game ;(" Thanks for putting this together. Strawman harder. People are mostly agreeing with the general idea disliking the childish way that is used to explain it. You can't go around shitting on players like soo and others simply because they aren't T. You can't say hellbat drops were ok vs Z and P. I do agree the mine nerf should have been either way smaller or not done at all but what is there to go around calling every non T player a scrub? The same type of stats he uses to prove his point show that T was OP when he had both broken hellbats and mines (again, I'd revert the change to how they were during that time, they were ok but not coupled with hellbats..). But that is dismissed as Z and P only having to adapt...... now adapt to mass muta vs T, adapt to tanks being bad, adapt to immortals beating tanks, adapt to protoss having many different openings, adapt to P defending with MSC alone.... you see my point. | ||
Jer99
Canada8159 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:37 Mutineer wrote: What this article is lucking is prize distribution statistics. By some reason they disappear. Even year ago they were published regularly and did show terran earning falling every year and was already below all other races before end of wol. I did not see any statistic from start of HOTS. No one publish then any more. I don't think this is important, prize pools can vary greatly so it doesn't really represent how well Terran could potentially be doing | ||
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MtlGuitarist97
United States1539 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:38 Jer99 wrote: I don't think this is important, prize pools can vary greatly so it doesn't really represent how well Terran could potentially be doing There was one. Terran has won the least (obviously) in 2013/2014, but it's also very skewed because of sOs (aka $o$). An extra $200k makes Protoss seem like they're doing a lot better than they actually are, even if they are dominating. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:37 Karpfen wrote: Strawman harder. People are mostly agreeing with the general idea disliking the childish way that is used to explain it. You can't go around shitting on players like soo and others simply because they aren't T. You can't say hellbat drops were ok vs Z and P. I do agree the mine nerf should have been either way smaller or not done at all but what is there to go around calling every non T player a scrub? The same type of stats he uses to prove his point show that T was OP when he had both broken hellbats and mines (again, I'd revert the change to how they were during that time, they were ok but not coupled with hellbats..). But that is dismissed as Z and P only having to adapt...... now adapt to mass muta vs T, adapt to tanks being bad, adapt to immortals beating tanks, adapt to protoss having many different openings, adapt to P defending with MSC alone.... you see my point. Like I said before, you can say what you want about his opinion of the games and the stats.. but you know damn well that is not the reason people are raging out about this.. if this was a thread full of jabs and digs at pro players who are obviously sick at the game and had no overwhelming facts pointing to imbalance the rage would have never showed up here.. it's the fact that some people can't handle the truth and that ignorance is bliss.. so the pretense of "BM post! Whiny post! Disrespect post!" all come out when the real shouting in the hater brain is saying "Fuck all! This shit makes my race seem imba.." | ||
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JDfz
United Kingdom50 Posts
Blizz, we need to talk about Terran. | ||
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Picasso
Korea (South)52 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:30 kiralykobra wrote: hahaha SjoW is a bad player compared to other pros so it doesn't matter what he plays BUT I say that is he would have played Protoss from the beggining he would have reached better results, and no i know that Protoss isn't freewin and requires lot's of skill. Scarlett did beat DRG with Protoss at MLG now so i don't know why are you giving me exaples of switching races. BTW if a Terran and a Protoss switch race with identical skill and play a PvT with races switched the Protoss still wins.. I have tested this with my friend,master leauge both of us so yeah... Protoss is stronger than Terran no doubt One sample size: you and your friend. I'm sure that's statistically significant and I'm sure Protoss OP is the reasonable conclusion from your great experiment. Maybe you guys are naturally better at Protoss than at Terran? Do you really expect all three races to have the same potential for each player? And Scarlett just practiced one build - if she tried to play a macro game she would've been destroyed. Practicing one all-in is quite simple depending on the build, something like a 7gate requires much less practice than immortal/sentry, and 7gate happens to be a pretty easy build so she used it. She could've practiced just 11/11 and used it on a 2-player map, same stuff | ||
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DrunkeN.
United States406 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:33 Nezgar wrote: Dude, this is basically the exact opposite of what most knowledgeable people demand from Blizzard. Most people agree that their greatest mistake is trying to overly balance the game, leaving it in a very unstable state throughout its lifespan. You are acting like I say change the game all time and change it a lot! No just tweak things from time to time see how it shakes up the meta. Instead we have a stale meta for Terran stuck doing the same few things in all match ups. | ||
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