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On July 01 2014 18:32 Radison wrote:
Well, terran players are perfectly ok with their race being imba at the beginning of each expansion "you know, for some time (months) it will take other races to adapt". I guess they should be equally ok with other races being stronger now, once they have adapted (till another major patch / expansion). Otherwise it's just unfair and tournament wins would be shifted in favor of terran too much.
but the other races didn't just adapt. Terran got nerfed AS they adapted
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On July 01 2014 18:32 Radison wrote:
Well, terran players are perfectly ok with their race being imba at the beginning of each expansion "you know, for some time (months) it will take other races to adapt". I guess they should be equally ok with other races being stronger now, once they have adapted (till another major patch / expansion). Otherwise it's just unfair and tournament wins would be shifted in favor of terran too much.
We watchin' the same game?
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France612 Posts
On July 01 2014 18:32 Radison wrote:
Well, terran players are perfectly ok with their race being imba at the beginning of each expansion "you know, for some time (months) it will take other races to adapt". I guess they should be equally ok with other races being stronger now, once they have adapted (till another major patch / expansion). Otherwise it's just unfair and tournament wins would be shifted in favor of terran too much.
I think the majority of terrans was asking for the Hellbat nerf at the time so don't assume "terran was perfectly ok" with it.
The problem is the infamous mine nerf that destroyed the most balanced state of this game as mentionned TheDwf , the match between Innovation and DRG was a perfect example of that. Both were talented players and played just amazingly and the better player won ( DRG) with pure display of skill. Before the patch the game was largely on a balanced state and was skill rewarding from both Z and T point of vue.
Now when I see recent games of scarlett or snute making 66 + baneling I don't see how it display skill to just roll terran with more baneling than marines. I would prefer to see those guys showing insane split/mine bait than just rolling with banelings. Also we don't see anymore mutas used to defuse mines so much because guess what they don't even need it anymore. That's the true problem. Zerg players are talented ! Let them show their skill.
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France612 Posts
Also guys what do you think about new mappool?
There are couple of maps that are again blink friendly and i'm really worry that protoss fall back in their old habit to show us lame game ending by a well-timed blink allin with a timewarp .
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On July 01 2014 18:32 Radison wrote:
Well, terran players are perfectly ok with their race being imba at the beginning of each expansion "you know, for some time (months) it will take other races to adapt". I guess they should be equally ok with other races being stronger now, once they have adapted (till another major patch / expansion). Otherwise it's just unfair and tournament wins would be shifted in favor of terran too much.
This is so opposite of the actual truth in every single way - Surely this must be a troll?
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SC2 has far more bigger problems than whats described in this article. If only someone could address them in a more professional way. But I guess there is no point, since its highly unlikely Blizzard will do anything, other than maybe acknowledging a bit and promising "something big for LotV" + Show Spoiler +.
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On July 01 2014 18:32 Radison wrote:
Well, terran players are perfectly ok with their race being imba at the beginning of each expansion "you know, for some time (months) it will take other races to adapt". I guess they should be equally ok with other races being stronger now, once they have adapted (till another major patch / expansion). Otherwise it's just unfair and tournament wins would be shifted in favor of terran too much.
Why is it always <100 posts that post this kind of shit ? Lol
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On July 01 2014 19:16 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 18:32 Radison wrote:
Well, terran players are perfectly ok with their race being imba at the beginning of each expansion "you know, for some time (months) it will take other races to adapt". I guess they should be equally ok with other races being stronger now, once they have adapted (till another major patch / expansion). Otherwise it's just unfair and tournament wins would be shifted in favor of terran too much. Why is it always <100 posts that post this kind of shit ? Lol
I dont know but it gets annoying ^^ Dont take it serious and move on.
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On July 01 2014 19:16 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 18:32 Radison wrote:
Well, terran players are perfectly ok with their race being imba at the beginning of each expansion "you know, for some time (months) it will take other races to adapt". I guess they should be equally ok with other races being stronger now, once they have adapted (till another major patch / expansion). Otherwise it's just unfair and tournament wins would be shifted in favor of terran too much. Why is it always <100 posts that post this kind of shit ? Lol
Armies of SCVs take over these kind of threads. It's like christmas for trolls.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 01 2014 19:36 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 19:16 Faust852 wrote:On July 01 2014 18:32 Radison wrote:
Well, terran players are perfectly ok with their race being imba at the beginning of each expansion "you know, for some time (months) it will take other races to adapt". I guess they should be equally ok with other races being stronger now, once they have adapted (till another major patch / expansion). Otherwise it's just unfair and tournament wins would be shifted in favor of terran too much. Why is it always <100 posts that post this kind of shit ? Lol Armies of SCVs take over these kind of threads. It's like christmas for trolls.
Honestly, what did you expect? Being it written more professionally, then it would look for these trolls badly, but ... I don't want to return the thread back.
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Saddens me when people who express an opinion which happens to differ from your own are labelled as trolls. Sign of the internet times I guess.
Back on track.
Something IS fundamentally wrong when the best Terrans in the world are not getting results. Flash doesn't understand the mechanics of RTS? Maru can't micro? Taeja isn't a machine but a zombie? Of course the above one line explains the terran situation better than the eloquent well researched article¡¿
And the whole 'terran were OP in early WoL, deal with it' is total and utter bullshit. If Terran were OP then what the fuck has that got to do with the situation now?
To reitterate; something IS fundamentally wrong when the best Terrans in the world are not getting results. Period.
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Northern Ireland25875 Posts
Just make Protoss harder to bloody play, seriously across the range of leagues terrible players can prosper with that race. I don't particularly care that my game has flaws, or that 'before GM your mechanics are bad'. I'm aware of my flaws, it's just not fun having to bust my ass to beat people who possess few if any of the skills you're expected to have at an RTS. Hell I ran a LAN lately and it was sad, active Masters Terrans losing to Protoss players we browbeated into signing up and who hadn't played in 6 months.
Now, at the highest level Protoss players have fantastic ability, I just wish they could show some of their skillset and differentiate themselves better.
I've said it since Beta, the MSC is garbage in it's current form because it is so brainless. You get it, there is no reason not to and it makes your timings and your defense better, blindly. The original form, tethered to the Nexus had potential, could pool energy for defense, could use it to bolster chrono and bolster your macro, or pool for recall and be offensive.
Why the hell did they not pursue that? It's maddening, the ostensible reason was 'we wanted it to feel like a unit'.
IMO Protoss production should also be much more reliant on good chronoboost usage. Let's good players benefit from distributing chrono well, be it for tech for timings or just bulk producing.
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Saddens me when people who express an opinion which happens to differ from your own are labelled as trolls. Sign of the internet times I guess.
"Terran was op 2 years ago so they need to suffer for 4 more years." Do you think this is not a stupid reasoning ?
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On July 01 2014 20:16 Wombat_NI wrote:
Why the hell did they not pursue that? It's maddening, the ostensible reason was 'we wanted it to feel like a unit'.
The more I think on it, it's because the people making the decisions, are blatantly making the wrong decisions.
It's easy to say 'that was wrong' with hindsight of course.
WoL was for Terrans, early HoTS made the infestor broodlord too easy and devastating not to use, and well the MSC 2K(?) Cannon sets up Protoss nicely in every game early on in defence at the very least.
Broodwar was untouched and balanced for years, yet going on history, SC2 seems to be in a constant state of unbalanced flux. Don't want to start a headhunt, but dam it Mr Kim, what's going on?
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Terran players like the dwarf and Avilo have been crying about balance for years, even when Terran was winning everything during Wings of Liberty. This biased article uses data from before the recent slew of Terran buffs. It is dishonest and embarrassing.
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Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On July 01 2014 20:28 fruity. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 20:16 Wombat_NI wrote:
Why the hell did they not pursue that? It's maddening, the ostensible reason was 'we wanted it to feel like a unit'.
The more I think on it, it's because the people making the decisions, are blatantly making the wrong decisions. It's easy to say 'that was wrong' with hindsight of course. WoL was for Terrans, early HoTS made the infestor broodlord too easy and devastating not to use, and well the MSC 2K(?) Cannon sets up Protoss nicely in every game early on in defence at the very least.Broodwar was untouched and balanced for years, yet going on history, SC2 seems to be in a constant state of unbalanced flux. Don't want to start a headhunt, but dam it Mr Kim, what's going on?
In general I believe it's tough to predict the consequences of particular changes, the change of the MSC and the Oracle speed buff being two exceptions there. The original MSC concept looked like it would reward the players who considered how they wanted to use it and make its abilities dovetail with their playstyle over those who didn't. It would have added potential depth over the current one which is a catchall unit with offensive and defensive power that there is no reason not to make.
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On July 01 2014 20:36 Salient wrote:
Terran players like the dwarf and Avilo have been crying about balance for years, even when Terran was winning everything during Wings of Liberty. This biased article uses data from before the recent slew of Terran buffs. It is dishonest and embarrassing.
It was written before the patch.
It's TheDwf, or Downfall, not Dwarf.
If he was a crybaby, he wouldn't be considered as quality member.
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On July 01 2014 20:16 Wombat_NI wrote:
I've said it since Beta, the MSC is garbage in it's current form because it is so brainless. You get it, there is no reason not to and it makes your timings and your defense better, blindly. The original form, tethered to the Nexus had potential, could pool energy for defense, could use it to bolster chrono and bolster your macro, or pool for recall and be offensive.
Why the hell did they not pursue that? It's maddening, the ostensible reason was 'we wanted it to feel like a unit'.
IMO Protoss production should also be much more reliant on good chronoboost usage. Let's good players benefit from distributing chrono well, be it for tech for timings or just bulk producing.
I completely agree. The concept on having recall on your nexus AND able to defend better with the energy available was much more interesting than the msc. If a terran would push for example, protoss would use this spell. Sure the problem remains of the planetary nexus, but at least terran did some form of dmg by forcing energy of chronoboost. as it is now it simply breaks the early game/makes it boring. And terran never stood a real chance lategame/was comfortable playing lategame.
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Taeja has repeatedly shown that Terran lategame is at least as powerful as Protoss.
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On July 01 2014 20:36 Salient wrote:
Terran players like the dwarf and Avilo have been crying about balance for years, even when Terran was winning everything during Wings of Liberty. This biased article uses data from before the recent slew of Terran buffs. It is dishonest and embarrassing.
You're dishonest and embarrassing, calling one of the most respected Terrans in the community out and comparing him to the joke that is avilo. Shame on you. Don't speak about things you don't know.
PS Slew of buffs. lol.
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