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Please clean up the quality of your posting. This thread has definitely taken a turn for the worse. |
On June 16 2014 12:18 docvoc wrote: I remember watching RuFF's stream a while back. The guy has so much talent, just could never figure out why he would rage so hard. I think that Mini went over the line getting into his chat like he did, and there should be some repercussion for that, but RuFF's comments were out of line. I do think that dropping him over this is way way too much though. Having some drama in the scene isn't a bad thing, it keeps the game interesting, though his comments were over the line.
EDIT: What NoNy said. NoNy was talking about "ragers" as if they're all the same. Drama is fine, like not shaking hands before a match or trash talk like what idra and cruncher used to do way back, that drama is interesting. What happened with RuFF is not the same at all, and sponsors will not stand for that crap, therefore dropping him was not way way too much, it was required.
Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
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The situation in eSports is kind of absurd. It's almost as if every professional football player trained with randoms off the street, all day, every day, and every one of those randoms had a video camera attached to their forehead. And any time the pro did anything objectionable, it ended up all over every major news outlet.
Literally every professional athlete - hell, every professional fullstop - has some objectionable view, and says stupid things. All the time. They just don't work in an environment where their actions are public 14+ hours a day.
I think it was a pretty offensive thing to say. Considering that he's on a team which specifically supports gamers with illnesses, being kicked is probably appropriate. However, the mere fact that Ruff's now 20 times more visible for a one-liner than he ever was as a player says something about the pitchfork culture we have.
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i think a mod should lock this thread no more good will come of it except for celeb baiting and spreading drama/miss-information, threads like this should probably be locked as soon as people are confident in the front page displaying enough info for people to form their own opinions.
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On June 16 2014 12:32 Belisarius wrote: The situation in eSports is kind of absurd. It's almost as if every professional football player trained with randoms off the street, all day, every day, and every one of those randoms had a video camera attached to their forehead. And any time the pro did anything objectionable, it ended up all over every major news outlet.
Literally every professional athlete - hell, every professional fullstop - has some objectionable view, and says stupid things. Every day. They just don't work in an environment where their actions are public 14+ hours a day.
I think it was a pretty offensive thing to say. Considering that he's on a team which specifically supports gamers will illnesses, the action is probably appropriate. However, the mere fact that Ruff's now 20 times more visible for a one-liner than he ever was as a player says something about the pitchfork culture in esports.
I do recall that incident with Michael Vick (from American Football) where he was caught being involved with dog-fighting, and then, as far as publicity goes, things got really ruff for him.
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On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote: things got really ruff for him.
you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse
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just want to say i was actually watching when this happened. minigun was a barcode and quoted ruff from ruff's previous game "easy games, easy games." then ruff was like oh he's stream sniping. in many ways this was miniguns fault. it was a mean comment on ruffs part but minigun sure did provoke him and then go post it on twitter. pretty low in my opinon.
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On June 16 2014 12:34 dark1882 wrote: i think a mod should lock this thread no more good will come of it except for celeb baiting and spreading drama/miss-information, threads like this should probably be locked as soon as people are confident in the front page displaying enough info for people to form their own opinions.
Agreed, we're just going around in circles now, isn't that what the SC reddit is for?
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United States4883 Posts
May I just say:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/440514-legitimate-community-concerns
I wrote this blog a while back commenting on how people should treat other players online as real people (because they are real people). This is again a scenario where we see that someone mindlessly started ranting at a computer screen without any regard to the actual real person on the other side. Unfortunately for Ruff, this was to his own detriment, as it ultimately ruined something really good for him. Point being, everyone needs to start being mindful in SC2; no one wants this shit on ladder all day. No one should have to wade through "go get more cancer scrub" and "bg faggot protoss" comments to try and enjoy the game. That's not fair to other players and it makes a shitty environment that prevents growth and the overall competitiveness and skill-based play that everyone appreciates in SC2.
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On June 16 2014 12:32 Belisarius wrote: The situation in eSports is kind of absurd. It's almost as if every professional football player trained with randoms off the street, all day, every day, and every one of those randoms had a video camera attached to their forehead. And any time the pro did anything objectionable, it ended up all over every major news outlet.
Literally every professional athlete - hell, every professional fullstop - has some objectionable view, and says stupid things. All the time. They just don't work in an environment where their actions are public 14+ hours a day.
I think it was a pretty offensive thing to say. Considering that he's on a team which specifically supports gamers with illnesses, being kicked is probably appropriate. However, the mere fact that Ruff's now 20 times more visible for a one-liner than he ever was as a player says something about the pitchfork culture we have.
Is that a bad thing though? It shouldn't be acceptable regardless of what team he's on, he insulted another player over the medium on which they both work, while representing his team. He made his opinion on it public in his stream even. It's not like were hunting down ruff for that time he reversed over the neighbours dog 2 years ago.
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On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:32 Belisarius wrote: The situation in eSports is kind of absurd. It's almost as if every professional football player trained with randoms off the street, all day, every day, and every one of those randoms had a video camera attached to their forehead. And any time the pro did anything objectionable, it ended up all over every major news outlet.
Literally every professional athlete - hell, every professional fullstop - has some objectionable view, and says stupid things. Every day. They just don't work in an environment where their actions are public 14+ hours a day.
I think it was a pretty offensive thing to say. Considering that he's on a team which specifically supports gamers will illnesses, the action is probably appropriate. However, the mere fact that Ruff's now 20 times more visible for a one-liner than he ever was as a player says something about the pitchfork culture in esports. I do recall that incident with Michael Vick (from American Football) where he was caught being involved with dog-fighting, and then, as far as publicity goes, things got really ruff for him.
Sure, but I mean, that's actually illegal (afaik). Making an objectionable comment is not.
Athletes get in major trouble when they make major public blunders, like breaking the law or being caught using drugs. They occasionally have issues when they make really offensive (ie. almost exclusively racist) remarks on-field, during their 2 hours a week of actual presentation time. That's a tiny fraction of the things esports personalities get pulled up for.
Also this:
On June 16 2014 12:36 Xor. wrote: just want to say i was actually watching when this happened. minigun was a barcode and quoted ruff from ruff's previous game "easy games, easy games." then ruff was like oh he's stream sniping. in many ways this was miniguns fault. it was a mean comment on ruffs part but minigun sure did provoke him and then go post it on twitter. pretty low in my opinon.
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On June 16 2014 12:38 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:34 dark1882 wrote: i think a mod should lock this thread no more good will come of it except for celeb baiting and spreading drama/miss-information, threads like this should probably be locked as soon as people are confident in the front page displaying enough info for people to form their own opinions. Agreed, we're just going around in circles now, isn't that what the SC reddit is for? thats more like a plunge into the abyss
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United States23455 Posts
On June 16 2014 12:40 Belisarius wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote:On June 16 2014 12:32 Belisarius wrote: The situation in eSports is kind of absurd. It's almost as if every professional football player trained with randoms off the street, all day, every day, and every one of those randoms had a video camera attached to their forehead. And any time the pro did anything objectionable, it ended up all over every major news outlet.
Literally every professional athlete - hell, every professional fullstop - has some objectionable view, and says stupid things. Every day. They just don't work in an environment where their actions are public 14+ hours a day.
I think it was a pretty offensive thing to say. Considering that he's on a team which specifically supports gamers will illnesses, the action is probably appropriate. However, the mere fact that Ruff's now 20 times more visible for a one-liner than he ever was as a player says something about the pitchfork culture in esports. I do recall that incident with Michael Vick (from American Football) where he was caught being involved with dog-fighting, and then, as far as publicity goes, things got really ruff for him. Sure, but I mean, that's actually illegal (afaik). Making an objectionable comment is not. Athletes get in major trouble when they make major public blunders, like breaking the law. They occasionally have issues when they make really offensive (ie. almost exclusively racist) remarks on-field. That's a tiny proportion of the things esports personalities get pulled up for. Also this: Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:36 Xor. wrote: just want to say i was actually watching when this happened. minigun was a barcode and quoted ruff from ruff's previous game "easy games, easy games." then ruff was like oh he's stream sniping. in many ways this was miniguns fault. it was a mean comment on ruffs part but minigun sure did provoke him and then go post it on twitter. pretty low in my opinon. You don't have to break the law to be kicked from your team, you just have to show that you aren't a good representative for their team/sponsors (he did that)
I do not know what Minigun did and for all I know it is reprehensible but honestly a 28 year old like Ruff should be able to not (publicly or otherwise and it was publicly on stream) cross the line the way he did. That gets you in trouble.
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On June 16 2014 12:36 suicideyear wrote:you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse
This is ruff-ly the response I half-expected, but it's possible that there is a brand of dog treats called "money", shaped like dollar-signs, and his beloved canine companion is named "Sick-boy", and it's adorable when he begs for treats.
We need to seriously consider this before throwing the C-word around.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On June 16 2014 12:45 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:36 suicideyear wrote:On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote: things got really ruff for him. you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse This is ruff-ly the response I half-expected, but it's possible that there is a brand of dog treats called "money", shaped like dollar-signs, and his beloved canine companion is named "Sick-boy", and it's adorable when he begs for treats. We need to seriously consider this before throwing the C-word around. + Show Spoiler +
i don't get this in certain areas cunt is a barely offensive word used to supllant fucker(in swearing i mean), presumably because it sounds more "eloquent". But some of you are treating it like it's truely very offensive, am i missing something? ._.
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On June 16 2014 12:52 dark1882 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:45 ninazerg wrote:On June 16 2014 12:36 suicideyear wrote:On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote: things got really ruff for him. you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse This is ruff-ly the response I half-expected, but it's possible that there is a brand of dog treats called "money", shaped like dollar-signs, and his beloved canine companion is named "Sick-boy", and it's adorable when he begs for treats. We need to seriously consider this before throwing the C-word around. + Show Spoiler + i don't get this in certain areas cunt is a barely offensive word used to supllant fucker(in swearing i mean), presumably because it sounds more "eloquent". But some of you are treating it like it's truely very offensive, am i missing something? ._.
I can only speak from my own experience, and that is that "cunt" isn't that big of a deal, it's a lot like fuck or fucker, it can be used as a judge of character or a term of friendship
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On June 16 2014 12:52 dark1882 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:45 ninazerg wrote:On June 16 2014 12:36 suicideyear wrote:On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote: things got really ruff for him. you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse This is ruff-ly the response I half-expected, but it's possible that there is a brand of dog treats called "money", shaped like dollar-signs, and his beloved canine companion is named "Sick-boy", and it's adorable when he begs for treats. We need to seriously consider this before throwing the C-word around. + Show Spoiler + i don't get this in certain areas cunt is a barely offensive word used to supllant fucker(in swearing i mean), presumably because it sounds more "eloquent". But some of you are treating it like it's truely very offensive, am i missing something? ._.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunt#Offensiveness
The word "cunt" is generally regarded in English-speaking countries as unsuitable for normal public discourse. It has been described as "the most heavily tabooed word of all English words",[10][11] although this has been disputed.[12]
Its all just cultural. What it mean here, today, is not what it will mean 100 years from now.
Go fuck yourself can mean 10 different things. Language is a living thing, which is okay because getting your feelings hurt isn't, and shouldn't be, a crime.
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8748 Posts
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly. Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
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On June 16 2014 12:59 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly. Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss. Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can. There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
My thoughts exactly. Ruff may have his moments, but he is a good person if you get to actually know him.
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On June 16 2014 12:59 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:52 dark1882 wrote:On June 16 2014 12:45 ninazerg wrote:On June 16 2014 12:36 suicideyear wrote:On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote: things got really ruff for him. you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse This is ruff-ly the response I half-expected, but it's possible that there is a brand of dog treats called "money", shaped like dollar-signs, and his beloved canine companion is named "Sick-boy", and it's adorable when he begs for treats. We need to seriously consider this before throwing the C-word around. + Show Spoiler + i don't get this in certain areas cunt is a barely offensive word used to supllant fucker(in swearing i mean), presumably because it sounds more "eloquent". But some of you are treating it like it's truely very offensive, am i missing something? ._. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunt#OffensivenessThe word "cunt" is generally regarded in English-speaking countries as unsuitable for normal public discourse. It has been described as "the most heavily tabooed word of all English words",[10][11] although this has been disputed.[12] Its all just cultural. What it mean here, today, is not what it will mean 100 years from now. Go fuck yourself can mean 10 different things. Language is a living thing, which is okay because getting your feelings hurt isn't, and shouldn't be, a crime. True but professionalism is to be expected and as i said earlier, he did it over the medium through which they work, involving his audience and team, if he'd sent chad a facebook message of similar contents for example not much could be done that's his private life, both less public and less involved with any rights chad would've had to work fairly, aswell as less damaging for his team, as it is he twisted the knife by doing it to minigun infront of a crowd especially when he already has alot on his plate.
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All you have to do to become a better human is to spend enough time in Clan X17 to realize everyone there is a human being, and just need love.
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