Due to his recent comments regarding Chad “Minigun” Jones, Jesse “RuFF” Hall has been removed from IvD Gaming. His actions were unjustifiably inappropriate and have no place in a professional environment.
IvD was formed in support of a fellow gamer with cancer, and a number of us have been greatly affected by it and other diseases. Our owner himself was diagnosed with Crohn's disease and I lost my Mother and Grandparents to cancer shortly before IvD was founded. Immediately after we were made aware of what was said, we began internally discussing disciplinary action. Our final decision was not made lightly. Jesse is a dear friend and anyone who truly knows him can tell you how uncharacteristic this action was. Ultimately, no amount of anger, frustration, or surrounding circumstances can excuse this type of behavior.
We at IvD Gaming would like to offer our sincerest apologies to Chad, our fans, the community, and everyone who felt attacked or offended by the comments made by RuFF yesterday. Know that we won’t stand for behavior like this from anyone, let alone someone who represents our organization and partners. It is our sincere hope that we will be able to continue to support players that uphold our values and commitment to raising awareness of these awful diseases. Once again we apologize for yesterday's incident, and hope that our steps taken will prevent any such further incidents from occurring.
On June 16 2014 03:10 RuFF_SC2 wrote: I want to apologize for what I said to Minigun on the ladder. I know now that what I said was inexcusable and with that came the ultimate punishment by losing the team that I enjoy being with the most. I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself. I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat. I should have more of a professional character and not get upset by such banter. When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried. The people on this team have the best of hearts and when it comes to management, they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing.
I saved my step brother 5 years ago by spotting his cancer early at Rapids Waterpark in Florida when I noticed he was walking with a limp. He became part of Make-A-Wish foundation and has recovered from his cancer since then. I felt obligated to say this because I do not want to come across as a heartless person. I tend to get away from the issues in RL and not think while playing StarCraft.
I have had beef with Minigun since WoL and admit to holding a grudge because I treated him like a friend when we both were learning how to play Terran at some point we clashed on ladder and went our separate ways. Still ultimately what I said was inexcusable and I hope that he gets better from his illness. I should treat people like I would in person as if there was not a computer screen in front of me.
I hope that the community sees this as an appropriate action even though I am saddened by the decision. Best wishes to everyone and I hope this does not effect the community in a negative aspect.
If you would like to learn more information about Crohn's disease or help support treatment research consider reading up on these places making great strides:
Also those organizations who work to help alleviate the financial strain severe diseases can put on patients as well as provide support and counseling for those who are in need:
Yikes. How did Ruff even know he was playing minigun? mini was playing as a barcode in the screenshot that I saw, so they must have been speaking earlier in the game or something? Regardless, a terrible comment to make.
On June 16 2014 02:51 GranDGranT wrote: What was wrong with what Ruff said besides the cuss words?
Minigun has been suffering from Crohn's disease. He has been desperate for money and reached out to the Starcraft community for help. Thankfully they answered his call. However on ladder yesterday this incident happened.
EDIT: Apparently Minigun did not ask for money, a fan set up the fundraiser.
On June 16 2014 02:54 GOAL wrote: He was 100% right. He did not even insult someone. Minigun begged for money because he is sick, nothing wrong saying that.
On June 16 2014 02:54 GOAL wrote: He was 100% right. He did not even insult someone. Minigun begged for money because he is sick, nothing wrong saying that.
The quality of Ruffs fanbois ladies and gentlemen.
Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just that stupid?
On June 16 2014 02:54 GOAL wrote: He was 100% right. He did not even insult someone. Minigun begged for money because he is sick, nothing wrong saying that.
The quality of Ruffs fanbois ladies and gentlemen.
Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just that stupid?
On June 16 2014 02:54 GOAL wrote: He was 100% right. He did not even insult someone. Minigun begged for money because he is sick, nothing wrong saying that.
On June 16 2014 02:51 GranDGranT wrote: What was wrong with what Ruff said besides the cuss words?
Minigun has been suffering from Crohn's disease. He has been desperate for money and reached out to the Starcraft community for help. Thankfully they answered his call. However on ladder yesterday this incident happened.
What has suffering from a disease to do with desperation for money?
Good riddance, that kind of crap shouldn't be tolerated. It's not Chad's fault he has such a horrible disease, he never asked that fan to set up a fundraiser for him or for people to give money to him.
The fact that Ruff was on a team founded on the backbone of supporting people with cancer and other horrible illnesses and he said this kind of shit is just bad.
As for the guy saying Ruff was right, you have problems man. How can you even support someone like that?
On June 16 2014 02:51 GranDGranT wrote: What was wrong with what Ruff said besides the cuss words?
Minigun has been suffering from Crohn's disease. He has been desperate for money and reached out to the Starcraft community for help. Thankfully they answered his call. However on ladder yesterday this incident happened.
What has suffering from a disease to do with desperation for money?
lol, not surprised in the least....RuFF will always be the 1 base guy every match up, usually these type of people have to bring up real life problems when they lose.
On June 16 2014 02:51 GranDGranT wrote: What was wrong with what Ruff said besides the cuss words?
Minigun has been suffering from Crohn's disease. He has been desperate for money and reached out to the Starcraft community for help. Thankfully they answered his call. However on ladder yesterday this incident happened.
What has suffering from a disease to do with desperation for money?
On June 16 2014 02:51 GranDGranT wrote: What was wrong with what Ruff said besides the cuss words?
Minigun has been suffering from Crohn's disease. He has been desperate for money and reached out to the Starcraft community for help. Thankfully they answered his call. However on ladder yesterday this incident happened.
don't think chad ever asked for money, it was a fan who set up the fundraiser
On June 16 2014 02:51 GranDGranT wrote: What was wrong with what Ruff said besides the cuss words?
Minigun has been suffering from Crohn's disease. He has been desperate for money and reached out to the Starcraft community for help. Thankfully they answered his call. However on ladder yesterday this incident happened.
What has suffering from a disease to do with desperation for money?
On June 16 2014 02:54 GOAL wrote: He was 100% right. He did not even insult someone. Minigun begged for money because he is sick, nothing wrong saying that.
Goodbye fella, it's not that nice knowing you.
]
Although I disagree aswell GOAL doesn't really deserve a ban for that.
On June 16 2014 02:54 GOAL wrote: He was 100% right. He did not even insult someone. Minigun begged for money because he is sick, nothing wrong saying that.
Goodbye fella, it's not that nice knowing you.
]
Although I disagree aswell GOAL doesn't really deserve a ban for that.
I want to apologize for what I said to Minigun on the ladder. I know now that what I said was inexcusable and with that came the ultimate punishment by losing the team that I enjoy being with the most. I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself. I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat. I should have more of a professional character and not get upset by such banter. When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried. The people on this team have the best of hearts and when it comes to management, they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing.
I saved my step brother 5 years ago by spotting his cancer early at Rapids Waterpark in Florida when I noticed he was walking with a limp. He became part of Make-A-Wish foundation and has recovered from his cancer since then. I felt obligated to say this because I do not want to come across as a heartless person. I tend to get away from the issues in RL and not think while playing StarCraft.
I have had beef with Minigun since WoL and admit to holding a grudge because I treated him like a friend when we both were learning how to play Terran at some point we clashed on ladder and went our separate ways. Still ultimately what I said was inexcusable and I hope that he gets better from his illness. I should treat people like I would in person as if there was not a computer screen in front of me.
I hope that the community sees this as an appropriate action even though I am saddened by the decision. Best wishes to everyone and I hope this does not effect the community in a negative aspect.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
You know what's really lame? Being forced to quit your de facto job because you are horribly ill and afflicted with an extremely painful and uncomfortable disease. As well as not ring able to pay for the necessary medical treatment for said disease.
The lamest thing though? Pretentious pricks with no sympathy and respect for another human being. Internet tough guys who act like little shits just because they can.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
LAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWL
As a real Superstar once said "Its that 6'6 long dick slim nigga stickin your Chick" - Slim thug (Still Tippin')
You cant deny what isnt there, but you cant deny what is there. If my grandpa taught me anything it is that the universe is what you make it , even if you dont know what to make of it.
On June 16 2014 02:51 GranDGranT wrote: What was wrong with what Ruff said besides the cuss words?
Minigun has been suffering from Crohn's disease. He has been desperate for money and reached out to the Starcraft community for help. Thankfully they answered his call. However on ladder yesterday this incident happened.
What has suffering from a disease to do with desperation for money?
Absolutely everything here in the United States. I won't go on a rant, I'll just say that healthcare in the United States is the most expensive in the entire world. * Don't go on a rant, don't go on a rant, count to 10* Okay.
So yeah, our healthcare is pretty expensive. Deathly expensive, if you will.
On June 16 2014 03:10 RuFF_SC2 wrote: I want to apologize for what I said to Minigun on the ladder. I know now that what I said was inexcusable and with that came the ultimate punishment by losing the team that I enjoy being with the most. I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself. I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat. I should have more of a professional character and not get upset by such banter. When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried. The people on this team have the best of hearts and when it comes to management, they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing.
I saved my step brother 5 years ago by spotting his cancer early at Rapids Waterpark in Florida when I noticed he was walking with a limp. He became part of Make-A-Wish foundation and has recovered from his cancer since then. I felt obligated to say this because I do not want to come across as a heartless person. I tend to get away from the issues in RL and not think while playing StarCraft.
I have had beef with Minigun since WoL and admit to holding a grudge because I treated him like a friend when we both were learning how to play Terran at some point we clashed on ladder and went our separate ways. Still ultimately what I said was inexcusable and I hope that he gets better from his illness. I should treat people like I would in person as if there was not a computer screen in front of me.
I hope that the community sees this as an appropriate action even though I am saddened by the decision. Best wishes to everyone and I hope this does not effect the community in a negative aspect.
It's ok m8 u didnt choose the thug lyf, the thug lyf chose u
On June 16 2014 03:22 monkh wrote: A lot of people are quick to be like "good decision" but I wounder if they spoke to him first and gave him a chance to apologise.
It was still an insensitive quote made that was contrary to the identity of the team who paid him, particularly so in this situation. It might have been made in jest or in anger, it's rather irrelevant. Barring incredibly extraordinary circumstances, it was still just.
On June 16 2014 03:22 monkh wrote: A lot of people are quick to be like "good decision" but I wounder if they spoke to him first and gave him a chance to apologise.
"Apologies make everything go away" - Nobody ever.
On June 16 2014 03:22 monkh wrote: A lot of people are quick to be like "good decision" but I wounder if they spoke to him first and gave him a chance to apologise.
On June 16 2014 03:22 monkh wrote: A lot of people are quick to be like "good decision" but I wounder if they spoke to him first and gave him a chance to apologise.
"Apologies make everything go away" - Nobody ever.
On June 16 2014 03:22 monkh wrote: A lot of people are quick to be like "good decision" but I wounder if they spoke to him first and gave him a chance to apologise.
"Apologies make everything go away" - Nobody ever.
On June 16 2014 03:10 RuFF_SC2 wrote: I want to apologize for what I said to Minigun on the ladder. I know now that what I said was inexcusable and with that came the ultimate punishment by losing the team that I enjoy being with the most. I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself. I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat. I should have more of a professional character and not get upset by such banter. When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried. The people on this team have the best of hearts and when it comes to management, they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing.
I saved my step brother 5 years ago by spotting his cancer early at Rapids Waterpark in Florida when I noticed he was walking with a limp. He became part of Make-A-Wish foundation and has recovered from his cancer since then. I felt obligated to say this because I do not want to come across as a heartless person. I tend to get away from the issues in RL and not think while playing StarCraft.
I have had beef with Minigun since WoL and admit to holding a grudge because I treated him like a friend when we both were learning how to play Terran at some point we clashed on ladder and went our separate ways. Still ultimately what I said was inexcusable and I hope that he gets better from his illness. I should treat people like I would in person as if there was not a computer screen in front of me.
I hope that the community sees this as an appropriate action even though I am saddened by the decision. Best wishes to everyone and I hope this does not effect the community in a negative aspect.
Well I understand completely that consciousness kinda dissapear when you're losing a game in sc2, the only difference is that I'm not with a team and can't get punished for saying bad stuff like that. Perhaps you should get a barcode and play on it when you're not streaming. That way you can curse at anyone anonymous :D:D
I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself.
You also went on to laugh about it after, telling people in your chat that you didn't care if it was mean. And then when people called you out on it, you disregarded them as "trolls".
I wouldn't kick someone off the team for something like this. Obviously it was a douchey thing to say, but having him apologize and giving him warning (from the team) would have been more appropriate imo. We all do stupid shit sometimes.
Now, if this has happened multiple times while he's been on the team, then fire away!
People use insults to hurt other people. Insults hurt more when they're personal. Since they can deal more damage to the insecurity of a person. Even if the victim knows that the insult isn't true, chances are a small part of his mind will disagree. Or it will surface, when the person is in a bad/sad mood.
The ladder would be a far worse place, when people would know personal stuff about their opponents. It would not be a simple idiot/retard/fucktard, they'd all use personal insults. They just don't know them, so it's kept at a minimal level.
You see the same when people know someone is female, the nationality or looks (ginger, fat, thin, ...). It's easier and more effective to use those personal traits instead of a random "you're stupid!!".
I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself.
You also went on to laugh about it after, telling people in your chat that you didn't care if it was mean. And then when people called you out on it, you disregarded them as "trolls".
What else do you expect? Apologizing and accepting that you did something horrible, in front of a lot of people, is hard for a lot of people. Joking about it, being the "tough guy who doesn't give a fuck" and overall being defensive is the normal response.
There's a reason why most people never apologize, unless they're forced to. It's seen as a sign of weakness. Admitting that you fucked up is hard.
On June 16 2014 03:10 RuFF_SC2 wrote: I want to apologize for what I said to Minigun on the ladder. I know now that what I said was inexcusable and with that came the ultimate punishment by losing the team that I enjoy being with the most. I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself. I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat. I should have more of a professional character and not get upset by such banter. When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried. The people on this team have the best of hearts and when it comes to management, they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing.
I saved my step brother 5 years ago by spotting his cancer early at Rapids Waterpark in Florida when I noticed he was walking with a limp. He became part of Make-A-Wish foundation and has recovered from his cancer since then. I felt obligated to say this because I do not want to come across as a heartless person. I tend to get away from the issues in RL and not think while playing StarCraft.
I have had beef with Minigun since WoL and admit to holding a grudge because I treated him like a friend when we both were learning how to play Terran at some point we clashed on ladder and went our separate ways. Still ultimately what I said was inexcusable and I hope that he gets better from his illness. I should treat people like I would in person as if there was not a computer screen in front of me.
I hope that the community sees this as an appropriate action even though I am saddened by the decision. Best wishes to everyone and I hope this does not effect the community in a negative aspect.
I have crohn disease for some years and during that I have formed immunity against those bullshits. Most people just dont understand the illness and react in ignorance. My point is that the removal of RuFF is kinda harsh. As I see his reaction he really regret what he said and he should been given an opportunity to put things right (apology and possibly some contribution to some Crohn disease fund). Nevertheless, BMing in SC2 is pretty annoying and players should be punished for that, respectively teams should be strict about this.
I'd like to say something to address this seriously. It's easy to immediately deride Ruff for what he said, or any other careless trolls on the internet. However the phenomenon of people acting in this way online is widespread and it's a problem that all of us have to an extent. A person needs to learn to relate to his online anonymous "persona" in the same way he relates to his real one, and this doesn't come easy especially to younger people from my experience. I thinks it's great that his actions were derided swiftly and that he was punished for it, but the lesson we need to learn is that we need to educate ourselves and others to be more mindful of our conduct online. It's an easy course to just treat those who fail at self-control as some kinds of misfits and revel in a witch hunt against them.
It's pretty mind boggling how someone who's 30 yrs old wouldn't know what line not to cross, you never ever get that personal over a game, or over anything really
Hi guys. I am BreAKersc2. I am the CM Storm eSports community manager at the headquarters in Taipei. As I see it, I must deliver a statement regarding the behavior of Jesse "Ruff" Hall.
First and foremost, I want to say that belonging to a pro team myself (although myself just being a caster that is brand-naming himself and nothing more (furthermore the team that I belong to is not sponsored by CM Storm, do not get confused)), each and every member of that team has an obligation to the community to behave in a manner that does not discriminate, and that means not engaging in childish behavior. One thing that does not come to mind with the North American eSports scene is that you may see the person you played against on the ladder last night the next day in real life. Many people in Taiwan and China know who I am, and that is why when I am laddering, even when I am angry I must control myself, type out GG, and leave the game without any other commentary. The reason why I love Starcraft 2 more than any other game on the planet is the very fact that if you lose, you cannot blame anyone else but yourself for that loss.
In addition, having read Chad "Minigun" Jones' blog on teamliquid detailing his 4 week stay at the hospital, I must stress that it is difficult to have compassion with anyone who would flaunt his health status over someone else's. Thanks to the swift decision making of IvD's team leadership, our brand name is clean. There is no need to email us as we are already aware of the situation.
Ruff seemed like a prick prior to his response here; now he just seems like a regular guy who has problems with controlling anger in sc2. There's a lot of people like him out there. He apologized and got punished. Clean slate, make something good of it!
On June 16 2014 03:22 monkh wrote: A lot of people are quick to be like "good decision" but I wounder if they spoke to him first and gave him a chance to apologise.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
Yes, better to die slowly and painfully right? Thank god very stupid people like you don't know they are stupid else you'd be begging for money.
I have a Job, I dont need to beg for money XD
ah, then I suppose the best thing to do is waiting for a cure for stupidity so you can pay for it with the money from your job.
IKR, Cut minigun a break. He's a college student, and the amount he owes the hospital is the same amount of money a wal-mart employee makes working full time for one year, assuming they don't spend any of the money they make.
On June 16 2014 03:10 RuFF_SC2 wrote: I want to apologize for what I said to Minigun on the ladder. I know now that what I said was inexcusable and with that came the ultimate punishment by losing the team that I enjoy being with the most. I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself. I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat. I should have more of a professional character and not get upset by such banter. When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried. The people on this team have the best of hearts and when it comes to management, they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing.
I saved my step brother 5 years ago by spotting his cancer early at Rapids Waterpark in Florida when I noticed he was walking with a limp. He became part of Make-A-Wish foundation and has recovered from his cancer since then. I felt obligated to say this because I do not want to come across as a heartless person. I tend to get away from the issues in RL and not think while playing StarCraft.
I have had beef with Minigun since WoL and admit to holding a grudge because I treated him like a friend when we both were learning how to play Terran at some point we clashed on ladder and went our separate ways. Still ultimately what I said was inexcusable and I hope that he gets better from his illness. I should treat people like I would in person as if there was not a computer screen in front of me.
I hope that the community sees this as an appropriate action even though I am saddened by the decision. Best wishes to everyone and I hope this does not effect the community in a negative aspect.
This is the apology of a sociopath. You shift blame onto the person you're apologizing to (I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat). You appeal for sympathy for yourself (When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried). You try to smooth relations with people who have more power than you ( they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing). As soon as possible, you try to segue into a story in which you are the hero.
On June 16 2014 04:04 GranDGranT wrote: *sees Root gaming flair* *Exits*
TIL you have to be a fan of Minigun's team to empathize with his position of facing a serious medical disorder and large medical bills. You just don't seem to get that no one seems to agree with your callous and unsympathetic viewpoint and therefore have to justify the fact that people are against you with, "Oh they are just fanboys"
Go ahead and check my flair.
Fucking shit he got banned before he got rekt even harder. Oh well.
oh GranDGranT, if you knew chad at all you'd know he's really not the type of person to beg for money at all, he talked about it because people asked questions
and yeah if all you are is an employee you wouldn't have anywhere near enough money to pay for these kind of treatments
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
Yes, better to die slowly and painfully right? Thank god very stupid people like you don't know they are stupid else you'd be begging for money.
I have a Job, I dont need to beg for money XD
ah, then I suppose the best thing to do is waiting for a cure for stupidity so you can pay for it with the money from your job.
IKR, Cut minigun a break. He's a college student, and the amount he owes the hospital is the same amount of money a wal-mart employee makes working full time for one year, assuming they don't spend any of the money they make.
While everyone's free to spend their money how they wish, talking in this tone is in my opinion uncalled for. I personally feel like people should take care of their own problems. I'm sure there's numerous people in a similiar situation who don't get the help. In addition, there's numerous better charity targets in developing countries where a similiar amount of money could save hundreds or thousands of people instead of one
By the way, I still think that Ruff's comment wasn't an appropriate one but I believe that if this was the only offense, it would be an overreaction. .
On June 16 2014 03:10 RuFF_SC2 wrote: I want to apologize for what I said to Minigun on the ladder. I know now that what I said was inexcusable and with that came the ultimate punishment by losing the team that I enjoy being with the most. I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself. I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat. I should have more of a professional character and not get upset by such banter. When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried. The people on this team have the best of hearts and when it comes to management, they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing.
I saved my step brother 5 years ago by spotting his cancer early at Rapids Waterpark in Florida when I noticed he was walking with a limp. He became part of Make-A-Wish foundation and has recovered from his cancer since then. I felt obligated to say this because I do not want to come across as a heartless person. I tend to get away from the issues in RL and not think while playing StarCraft.
I have had beef with Minigun since WoL and admit to holding a grudge because I treated him like a friend when we both were learning how to play Terran at some point we clashed on ladder and went our separate ways. Still ultimately what I said was inexcusable and I hope that he gets better from his illness. I should treat people like I would in person as if there was not a computer screen in front of me.
I hope that the community sees this as an appropriate action even though I am saddened by the decision. Best wishes to everyone and I hope this does not effect the community in a negative aspect.
that screenshot reveals your true colors and you should be blacklisted.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
Yes, better to die slowly and painfully right? Thank god very stupid people like you don't know they are stupid else you'd be begging for money.
I have a Job, I dont need to beg for money XD
ah, then I suppose the best thing to do is waiting for a cure for stupidity so you can pay for it with the money from your job.
IKR, Cut minigun a break. He's a college student, and the amount he owes the hospital is the same amount of money a wal-mart employee makes working full time for one year, assuming they don't spend any of the money they make.
While everyone's free to spend their money how they wish, talking in this tone is in my opinion uncalled for. I personally feel like people should take care of their own problems. I'm sure there's numerous people in a similiar situation who don't get the help. In addition, there's numerous better charity targets in developing countries where a similiar amount of money could save hundreds or thousands of people instead of one
By the way, I still think that Ruff's comment wasn't an appropriate one but I believe that if this was the only offense, it would be an overreaction. .
so if like your wife or your mother was dying and you could save her with like 20k, you'd use that money to save more lives from people you don't know in another country?
On June 16 2014 03:10 RuFF_SC2 wrote: I want to apologize for what I said to Minigun on the ladder. I know now that what I said was inexcusable and with that came the ultimate punishment by losing the team that I enjoy being with the most. I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself. I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat. I should have more of a professional character and not get upset by such banter. When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried. The people on this team have the best of hearts and when it comes to management, they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing.
I saved my step brother 5 years ago by spotting his cancer early at Rapids Waterpark in Florida when I noticed he was walking with a limp. He became part of Make-A-Wish foundation and has recovered from his cancer since then. I felt obligated to say this because I do not want to come across as a heartless person. I tend to get away from the issues in RL and not think while playing StarCraft.
I have had beef with Minigun since WoL and admit to holding a grudge because I treated him like a friend when we both were learning how to play Terran at some point we clashed on ladder and went our separate ways. Still ultimately what I said was inexcusable and I hope that he gets better from his illness. I should treat people like I would in person as if there was not a computer screen in front of me.
I hope that the community sees this as an appropriate action even though I am saddened by the decision. Best wishes to everyone and I hope this does not effect the community in a negative aspect.
that screenshot reveals your true colors and you should be blacklisted.
Personally I feel like blacklisting is rather extreme. You don't make light of a person's health issues and I'm glad IVD handed out punishment accordingly, but I feel like if he's sincere enough, starting from the "bottom" again would go a long way in rehabilitating one's image. Everyone says things they come to regret in hindsight.
On June 16 2014 04:20 LongShot27 wrote: A lot of pro-gamers are dicks on ladder, because he said something targeted at someones illness doesn't make it any better or worse. But oh well.
of course it makes it worse wtf, when you tell someone they're fucking bad at starcraft, it's nowhere near as bad as what Ruff said
On June 16 2014 04:20 LongShot27 wrote: A lot of pro-gamers are dicks on ladder, because he said something targeted at someones illness doesn't make it any better or worse. But oh well.
of course it makes it worse wtf, when you tell someone they're fucking bad at starcraft, it's nowhere near as bad as what Ruff said
No it really doesn't. If he's a dick, he's a dick. It doesn't matter if he's making fun of a person's skill, their height, their illness or what they had for lunch. Stop trying to compartmentalize being a d-bag.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
Yes, better to die slowly and painfully right? Thank god very stupid people like you don't know they are stupid else you'd be begging for money.
I have a Job, I dont need to beg for money XD
ah, then I suppose the best thing to do is waiting for a cure for stupidity so you can pay for it with the money from your job.
IKR, Cut minigun a break. He's a college student, and the amount he owes the hospital is the same amount of money a wal-mart employee makes working full time for one year, assuming they don't spend any of the money they make.
I personally feel like people should take care of their own problems.
This is admirable that you think people should take care of their own problems, but Minigun pursues a not so lucrative career in pro-gaming, so it's not unreasonable to ask for help when facing a serious disease.
I'm sure there's numerous people in a similiar situation who don't get the help..
This is probably true, but also irrelevant. "If we can't help them all, why help anyone?" is a weird mindset when facing disease.
In addition, there's numerous better charity targets in developing countries where a similiar amount of money could save hundreds or thousands of people instead of one
What Fayth said basically. People want to help people they know and like get better. Is that selfish? Yeah probably but it's what happens. You'd do the same for a friend.
By the way, I still think that Ruff's comment wasn't an appropriate one but I believe that if this was the only offense, it would be an overreaction. .
I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
Yes, better to die slowly and painfully right? Thank god very stupid people like you don't know they are stupid else you'd be begging for money.
I have a Job, I dont need to beg for money XD
ah, then I suppose the best thing to do is waiting for a cure for stupidity so you can pay for it with the money from your job.
IKR, Cut minigun a break. He's a college student, and the amount he owes the hospital is the same amount of money a wal-mart employee makes working full time for one year, assuming they don't spend any of the money they make.
While everyone's free to spend their money how they wish, talking in this tone is in my opinion uncalled for. I personally feel like people should take care of their own problems. I'm sure there's numerous people in a similiar situation who don't get the help. In addition, there's numerous better charity targets in developing countries where a similiar amount of money could save hundreds or thousands of people instead of one
By the way, I still think that Ruff's comment wasn't an appropriate one but I believe that if this was the only offense, it would be an overreaction. .
so if like your wife or your mother was dying and you could save her with like 20k, you'd use that money to save more lives from people you don't know in another country?
what a hero
It's hard to say as I haven't ever had that much money, but that comparison is on a significantly different scale on both fronts(how close I am to the person and how serious the situation is).
On June 16 2014 04:20 LongShot27 wrote: A lot of pro-gamers are dicks on ladder, because he said something targeted at someones illness doesn't make it any better or worse. But oh well.
of course it makes it worse wtf, when you tell someone they're fucking bad at starcraft, it's nowhere near as bad as what Ruff said
No it really doesn't. If he's a dick, he's a dick. It doesn't matter if he's making fun of a person's skill, their height, their illness or what they had for lunch. Stop trying to compartmentalize being a d-bag.
.... well you're just wrong, I can't explain that any better since it's so obvious to me
On June 16 2014 04:20 LongShot27 wrote: A lot of pro-gamers are dicks on ladder, because he said something targeted at someones illness doesn't make it any better or worse. But oh well.
of course it makes it worse wtf, when you tell someone they're fucking bad at starcraft, it's nowhere near as bad as what Ruff said
No it really doesn't. If he's a dick, he's a dick. It doesn't matter if he's making fun of a person's skill, their height, their illness or what they had for lunch. Stop trying to compartmentalize being a d-bag.
Not all d-bag-ness is created equal. If Ruff had said, "You suck Protoss imba" or w/e this wouldn't be a problem. Making fun of a disease is a problem because it is insensitive and shows a complete lack of personal empathy for someone struggling financially and physically. There is a difference.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
Yes, better to die slowly and painfully right? Thank god very stupid people like you don't know they are stupid else you'd be begging for money.
I have a Job, I dont need to beg for money XD
ah, then I suppose the best thing to do is waiting for a cure for stupidity so you can pay for it with the money from your job.
IKR, Cut minigun a break. He's a college student, and the amount he owes the hospital is the same amount of money a wal-mart employee makes working full time for one year, assuming they don't spend any of the money they make.
While everyone's free to spend their money how they wish, talking in this tone is in my opinion uncalled for. I personally feel like people should take care of their own problems. I'm sure there's numerous people in a similiar situation who don't get the help. In addition, there's numerous better charity targets in developing countries where a similiar amount of money could save hundreds or thousands of people instead of one
By the way, I still think that Ruff's comment wasn't an appropriate one but I believe that if this was the only offense, it would be an overreaction. .
so if like your wife or your mother was dying and you could save her with like 20k, you'd use that money to save more lives from people you don't know in another country?
what a hero
It's hard to say as I haven't ever had that much money, but that comparison is on a significantly different scale on both fronts(how close I am to the person and how serious the situation is).
The comparison is off but seriously, you would save your family member.. Don't beat around the bush
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
This does a lot more for their own PR tbh. "We made the guy who made fun of someone with a serious disease sit out for a few weeks" doesn't sound as strong as, "We cut that guy who made fun of someone with a serious disease"
Also the guy acted like a dick. I wouldn't want that on my team again.
On June 16 2014 04:20 LongShot27 wrote: A lot of pro-gamers are dicks on ladder, because he said something targeted at someones illness doesn't make it any better or worse. But oh well.
of course it makes it worse wtf, when you tell someone they're fucking bad at starcraft, it's nowhere near as bad as what Ruff said
No it really doesn't. If he's a dick, he's a dick. It doesn't matter if he's making fun of a person's skill, their height, their illness or what they had for lunch. Stop trying to compartmentalize being a d-bag.
Not all d-bag-ness is created equal. If Ruff had said, "You suck Protoss imba" or w/e this wouldn't be a problem. Making fun of a disease is a problem because it is insensitive and shows a complete lack of personal empathy for someone struggling financially and physically. There is a difference.
He didn't make fun of a disease, he made fun of a person for what he saw as using being sick to get money.
On June 16 2014 04:20 LongShot27 wrote: A lot of pro-gamers are dicks on ladder, because he said something targeted at someones illness doesn't make it any better or worse. But oh well.
of course it makes it worse wtf, when you tell someone they're fucking bad at starcraft, it's nowhere near as bad as what Ruff said
No it really doesn't. If he's a dick, he's a dick. It doesn't matter if he's making fun of a person's skill, their height, their illness or what they had for lunch. Stop trying to compartmentalize being a d-bag.
Not all d-bag-ness is created equal. If Ruff had said, "You suck Protoss imba" or w/e this wouldn't be a problem. Making fun of a disease is a problem because it is insensitive and shows a complete lack of personal empathy for someone struggling financially and physically. There is a difference.
He didn't make fun of a disease, he made fun of a person for what he saw as using being sick to get money.
w/e I could clean up the language, but my point stands that what Ruff did is beyond the typical ladder bm. That should be clear.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
Yes, better to die slowly and painfully right? Thank god very stupid people like you don't know they are stupid else you'd be begging for money.
I have a Job, I dont need to beg for money XD
ah, then I suppose the best thing to do is waiting for a cure for stupidity so you can pay for it with the money from your job.
IKR, Cut minigun a break. He's a college student, and the amount he owes the hospital is the same amount of money a wal-mart employee makes working full time for one year, assuming they don't spend any of the money they make.
While everyone's free to spend their money how they wish, talking in this tone is in my opinion uncalled for. I personally feel like people should take care of their own problems. I'm sure there's numerous people in a similiar situation who don't get the help. In addition, there's numerous better charity targets in developing countries where a similiar amount of money could save hundreds or thousands of people instead of one
By the way, I still think that Ruff's comment wasn't an appropriate one but I believe that if this was the only offense, it would be an overreaction. .
I don't think you understand the gravity of Minigun's situation. In America, when you have to spend a lot of time in the hospital all at once, you can come out of it with an obscenely high bill. Think about it, you just got pasta terrible situation, you are still enduring the condition, and now you are swimming in medical bills and you are unable to participate in the activity that is your main/only source of income. That puts a tremendous psychological/physical burden to endure. I don't blame him for a second for thinking, "maybe I can ask for help." He just asked, to see if there was anyone out there who would pitch in something small to get him back on his feet. I understand the "do it yourself" mentality, but in this case I can't begrudge him that in the slightest.
good and quick reaction from ivd. This is why people needs to control their emotion. Video games no longer your 'escape reality' heaven once your decided to go pros... Worse, at least dont bm on your main account, thats just blind rage and poor decision making in life.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
I'm leaving in a huff because someone else stated their own opinion or point and I'm going to say that I won't argue with them because they won't consider my opinion or point. It's just not fair!
On June 16 2014 03:50 ROOTFayth wrote: It's pretty mind boggling how someone who's 30 yrs old wouldn't know what line not to cross, you never ever get that personal over a game, or over anything really
social skills 101?
Oh, I remember you from the Scarlett Fanclub. When did your social skills start kicking in?
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
This does a lot more for their own PR tbh. "We made the guy who made fun of someone with a serious disease sit out for a few weeks" doesn't sound as strong as, "We cut that guy who made fun of someone with a serious disease"
On that last point by the way, personally I don't think I would even post this online for everyone to see, as I'd assume he'd be released from his team. Here I'd be thinking "Is what he said bad enough so that I'd want him to be kicked from his team?" Probably not. Something like saying in a calm tone that "hey, that's pretty uncalled for. It's just a game, all right? You don't really mean that, do you?" And give him a chance to apologize for it and that's that. In fact, I probably would just ignore it altogether as it's really not a big deal. Hence I'm not really into tweeting about it in the first place
This is also a reason why I'm not into these huge witch hunt stuffs. One person's always painted the bad guy, the retaliation must be swift and powerful and whatnot, when in the first place it's really not even a big deal and they could make up and have no hard feelings privately with no issues. It reminds me of that Idra situation, which I completely disagreed with as well.
Finally about that thing about me saving my family member, perhaps but I have no idea what that has to do with this.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
Yes, better to die slowly and painfully right? Thank god very stupid people like you don't know they are stupid else you'd be begging for money.
I have a Job, I dont need to beg for money XD
ah, then I suppose the best thing to do is waiting for a cure for stupidity so you can pay for it with the money from your job.
IKR, Cut minigun a break. He's a college student, and the amount he owes the hospital is the same amount of money a wal-mart employee makes working full time for one year, assuming they don't spend any of the money they make.
While everyone's free to spend their money how they wish, talking in this tone is in my opinion uncalled for. I personally feel like people should take care of their own problems. I'm sure there's numerous people in a similiar situation who don't get the help. In addition, there's numerous better charity targets in developing countries where a similiar amount of money could save hundreds or thousands of people instead of one
By the way, I still think that Ruff's comment wasn't an appropriate one but I believe that if this was the only offense, it would be an overreaction. .
I don't think you understand the gravity of Minigun's situation. In America, when you have to spend a lot of time in the hospital all at once, you can come out of it with an obscenely high bill. Think about it, you just got pasta terrible situation, you are still enduring the condition, and now you are swimming in medical bills and you are unable to participate in the activity that is your main/only source of income. That puts a tremendous psychological/physical burden to endure. I don't blame him for a second for thinking, "maybe I can ask for help." He just asked, to see if there was anyone out there who would pitch in something small to get him back on his feet. I understand the "do it yourself" mentality, but in this case I can't begrudge him that in the slightest.
This of course is very likely, in Finland I don't think that would get me into very big money trouble. I'm partially playing the devil's advocate, anyway. I like thinking about things from the unexpected angles.
On June 16 2014 03:55 nkr wrote: Ruff seemed like a prick prior to his response here; now he just seems like a regular guy who has problems with controlling anger in sc2.
He comes across as self-centred and someone who has trouble (or doesn't care) relating to others, even in his apology. He should be apologizing to minigun, first and foremost, for the distress he caused. It's not about professionalism or the image of esports, it's about common human decency.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
Yes, better to die slowly and painfully right? Thank god very stupid people like you don't know they are stupid else you'd be begging for money.
I have a Job, I dont need to beg for money XD
ah, then I suppose the best thing to do is waiting for a cure for stupidity so you can pay for it with the money from your job.
IKR, Cut minigun a break. He's a college student, and the amount he owes the hospital is the same amount of money a wal-mart employee makes working full time for one year, assuming they don't spend any of the money they make.
While everyone's free to spend their money how they wish, talking in this tone is in my opinion uncalled for. I personally feel like people should take care of their own problems. I'm sure there's numerous people in a similiar situation who don't get the help. In addition, there's numerous better charity targets in developing countries where a similiar amount of money could save hundreds or thousands of people instead of one
By the way, I still think that Ruff's comment wasn't an appropriate one but I believe that if this was the only offense, it would be an overreaction. .
so if like your wife or your mother was dying and you could save her with like 20k, you'd use that money to save more lives from people you don't know in another country?
what a hero
It's hard to say as I haven't ever had that much money, but that comparison is on a significantly different scale on both fronts(how close I am to the person and how serious the situation is).
I imagine Chad is pretty close to himself, in all senses of the word
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
This does a lot more for their own PR tbh. "We made the guy who made fun of someone with a serious disease sit out for a few weeks" doesn't sound as strong as, "We cut that guy who made fun of someone with a serious disease"
On that last point by the way, personally I don't think I would even post this online for everyone to see, as I'd assume he'd be released from his team. Here I'd be thinking "Is what he said bad enough so that I'd want him to be kicked from his team?" Probably not. Something like saying in a calm tone that "hey, that's pretty uncalled for. It's just a game, all right? You don't really mean that, do you?" And give him a chance to apologize for it and that's that. In fact, I probably would just ignore it altogether as it's really not a big deal. Hence I'm not really into tweeting about it in the first place
This is also a reason why I'm not into these huge witch hunt stuffs. One person's always painted the bad guy, the retaliation must be swift and powerful and whatnot, when in the first place it's really not even a big deal and they could make up and have no hard feelings privately with no issues. It reminds me of that Idra situation, which I completely disagreed with as well.
Finally about that thing about me saving my family member, perhaps but I have no idea what that has to do with this.
If you think this is an isolated incident then you don't know Ruff. This has been going on for years. If Sheth came back and said something like this on ladder, people would be a lot more willing to attribute it to extenuating circumstances in his life, but with a repeat offender over the course of several years he's not gonna get much slack
On June 16 2014 04:27 Psychobabas wrote: Hmm not sure how I feel about this. I feel sorry for Minigun and his horrendous problems but I also like Ruff's stream.
But seriously, USA get a free healthcare system. I mean seriously what the fuck...
On the other hand, why did Minigun post that on his twitter... Meh, I give up.
He posted it because it wasn't the first time Ruff said that, he was tired of it
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
This does a lot more for their own PR tbh. "We made the guy who made fun of someone with a serious disease sit out for a few weeks" doesn't sound as strong as, "We cut that guy who made fun of someone with a serious disease"
On that last point by the way, personally I don't think I would even post this online for everyone to see, as I'd assume he'd be released from his team. Here I'd be thinking "Is what he said bad enough so that I'd want him to be kicked from his team?" Probably not. Something like saying in a calm tone that "hey, that's pretty uncalled for. It's just a game, all right? You don't really mean that, do you?" And give him a chance to apologize for it and that's that. In fact, I probably would just ignore it altogether as it's really not a big deal. Hence I'm not really into tweeting about it in the first place
This is also a reason why I'm not into these huge witch hunt stuffs. One person's always painted the bad guy, the retaliation must be swift and powerful and whatnot, when in the first place it's really not even a big deal and they could make up and have no hard feelings privately with no issues. It reminds me of that Idra situation, which I completely disagreed with as well.
Finally about that thing about me saving my family member, perhaps but I have no idea what that has to do with this.
On June 16 2014 03:04 GranDGranT wrote: I wont say it as rudely , but Begging for money no matter the cause is Lame.
But, If your gonna be a superstar like Ruff, you gotta act like it
Yes, better to die slowly and painfully right? Thank god very stupid people like you don't know they are stupid else you'd be begging for money.
I have a Job, I dont need to beg for money XD
ah, then I suppose the best thing to do is waiting for a cure for stupidity so you can pay for it with the money from your job.
IKR, Cut minigun a break. He's a college student, and the amount he owes the hospital is the same amount of money a wal-mart employee makes working full time for one year, assuming they don't spend any of the money they make.
While everyone's free to spend their money how they wish, talking in this tone is in my opinion uncalled for. I personally feel like people should take care of their own problems. I'm sure there's numerous people in a similiar situation who don't get the help. In addition, there's numerous better charity targets in developing countries where a similiar amount of money could save hundreds or thousands of people instead of one
By the way, I still think that Ruff's comment wasn't an appropriate one but I believe that if this was the only offense, it would be an overreaction. .
I don't think you understand the gravity of Minigun's situation. In America, when you have to spend a lot of time in the hospital all at once, you can come out of it with an obscenely high bill. Think about it, you just got pasta terrible situation, you are still enduring the condition, and now you are swimming in medical bills and you are unable to participate in the activity that is your main/only source of income. That puts a tremendous psychological/physical burden to endure. I don't blame him for a second for thinking, "maybe I can ask for help." He just asked, to see if there was anyone out there who would pitch in something small to get him back on his feet. I understand the "do it yourself" mentality, but in this case I can't begrudge him that in the slightest.
This of course is very likely, in Finland I don't think that would get me into very big money trouble. I'm partially playing the devil's advocate, anyway. I like thinking about things from the unexpected angles.
A stern talking to is a punishment for a child, not a 28 year old man trying to make a career being a professional gamer.
On June 16 2014 04:34 Psychobabas wrote: What kind of medical bills are we talking about here? How high?
Well, I had to take my Dad to the emergency room a few months back and we were there for around 2.5 hours and the bill was nearly $600. If you have to stay for an extended period of time in the hospital and have surgery the medical bills are easily going to be 10s of thousands of dollars. If you don't have medical insurance it literally puts most people into financial ruin.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Apologies. He was saying it's embarrassing to be a part of this community that does this to players. I was just saying that what happened to Ruff is justified (him being kicked)
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
On June 16 2014 04:34 Psychobabas wrote: What kind of medical bills are we talking about here? How high?
Well, I had to take my Dad to the emergency room a few months back and we were there for around 2.5 hours and the bill was nearly $600. If you have to stay for an extended period of time in the hospital and have surgery the medical bills are easily going to be 10s of thousands of dollars. If you don't have medical insurance it literally puts most people into financial ruin.
This is a reality I simply can't relate to. Shocking.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Random poster in an argument with Totalbiscuit, one of the more known people on LE INTERWEBS, thinks TB is arguing with him because TB wants more attention.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Apologies. He was saying it's embarrassing to be a part of this community that does this to players. I was just saying that what happened to Ruff is justified (him being kicked)
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Random poster in an argument with Totalbiscuit, one of the more known people on LE INTERWEBS, thinks TB is arguing with him because TB wants more attention.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Apologies. He was saying it's embarrassing to be a part of this community that does this to players. I was just saying that what happened to Ruff is justified (him being kicked)
On June 16 2014 04:40 LongShot27 wrote: Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Apologies. He was saying it's embarrassing to be a part of this community that does this to players. I was just saying that what happened to Ruff is justified (him being kicked)
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Apologies. He was saying it's embarrassing to be a part of this community that does this to players. I was just saying that what happened to Ruff is justified (him being kicked)
Bad wording on my part.
You want apologies? He already apologized afaik.
No I meant I apologize. For the bad wording. I am making people misunderstand left and right :D
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Apologies. He was saying it's embarrassing to be a part of this community that does this to players. I was just saying that what happened to Ruff is justified (him being kicked)
Bad wording on my part.
You want apologies? He already apologized afaik.
Haha i think you misunderstood a bit
Well, sorry if that is so.
To clarify: DH didn't want apologies, he apologised himself for the confusion his earlier post caused, since someone misunderstood it.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Apologies. He was saying it's embarrassing to be a part of this community that does this to players. I was just saying that what happened to Ruff is justified (him being kicked)
Bad wording on my part.
You want apologies? He already apologized afaik.
Haha i think you misunderstood a bit
Well, sorry if that is so.
To clarify: DH didn't want apologies, he apologies himself for the confusion his earlier post caused, since someone misunderstood it.
Which caused further confusion. Darkhorse the cryptic post champion
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Apologies. He was saying it's embarrassing to be a part of this community that does this to players. I was just saying that what happened to Ruff is justified (him being kicked)
Bad wording on my part.
You want apologies? He already apologized afaik.
Haha i think you misunderstood a bit
Well, sorry if that is so.
To clarify: DH didn't want apologies, he apologies himself for the confusion his earlier post caused, since someone misunderstood it.
Which caused further confusion. Darkhorse the cryptic post champion
Yes, I was about to demand another apology from him for that, but since we are in a rather serious topic here, that would probably have beeen inappropriate.
I would feel sorry for ruff if he didnt bm me everytime we play on ladder, but its pretty hard to feel sorry for someone that has the need to bm everyone who beats him.
I just don't see how he couldn't have known that it would come to this. SC2 teams struggle enough without having to worry about one bad apple blowing their image to hell.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Apologies. He was saying it's embarrassing to be a part of this community that does this to players. I was just saying that what happened to Ruff is justified (him being kicked)
Bad wording on my part.
You want apologies? He already apologized afaik.
Haha i think you misunderstood a bit
Well, sorry if that is so.
To clarify: DH didn't want apologies, he apologies himself for the confusion his earlier post caused, since someone misunderstood it.
Which caused further confusion. Darkhorse the cryptic post champion
Yes, I was about to demand another apology from him for that, but since we are in a rather serious topic here, that would probably have beeen inappropriate.
Well, I understand the posts now. My apologies for my misunderstanding it at first. Let's get this thread back on track
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
On June 16 2014 04:34 Psychobabas wrote: What kind of medical bills are we talking about here? How high?
Well, I had to take my Dad to the emergency room a few months back and we were there for around 2.5 hours and the bill was nearly $600. If you have to stay for an extended period of time in the hospital and have surgery the medical bills are easily going to be 10s of thousands of dollars. If you don't have medical insurance it literally puts most people into financial ruin.
TB, you gave your opinion about what you'd do, and then immediately berated someone else who gave his opinion about what he'd do in the same situation acting like your opinion is so much more valuable and nobody should disagree. Personally I think his solution was much more reasonable. Why don't you shut the hell up before making yourself look even more ignorant, rude, and stupid in this thread.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
On June 16 2014 05:01 Trubs wrote: TB, you gave your opinion about what you'd do, and then immediately berated someone else who gave his opinion about what he'd do in the same situation acting like your opinion is so much more valuable and nobody should disagree. Personally I think his solution was much more reasonable. Why don't you shut the hell up before making yourself look even more ignorant, rude, and stupid in this thread.
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work. I have more experience and standing so my opinion is worth more. That's how it works in all walks of life. As a team owner, my opinion on what the appropriate punishment for a player in violation of his contractual obligations to not be a twat (that'd be the gross misconduct section of the contract), has more weight, standing and value than a random forum posters would. That poster could make a very interesting point by backing his argument up with evidence and reasoning, experience isn't everything, but he failed to do that and so did you (because you are the same person).
Nice sockpuppet account. You're not very good at this though.
Why don't you shut the hell up before making yourself look even more ignorant, rude, and stupid in this thread.
I liked this line in particular. There's so much irony and hypocrisy stuffed into so few words, I'll remember it the next time I want to pretend to be a moron on the internet.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
OK so I retract what I said about my coeliac and crohne's, doesn't effect the rest of the things I said, which was my original point.
If you are dying or not - sounds like the guy was just pissy, and now the community is lynching him. Seen it a few times in this community - as with politics when a guy says binder full of women, etc.
So... this guy is a d-bag and annoys people in a daily basis on ladder, finally he got punished, that's great!
But what I am more concerned about is the large amount of people finding this behaviour a minor thing, thinking the punishment was harsh, and/or suggesting we grow a thicker skin. It seems d-baggery is becoming accepted more and more. That's sad.
You want to talk about hypocrisy? How about that time you told someone to get cancer and die? How about that time you called someone a faggot and never apologized because it "encapsulated exactly what he was"? Huh? How about that? What if your entire public image was pretty much completely destroyed by those incidents, like Ruff's will be. By the way, i'm not a user who was banned from this thread, this is just the day I decided to make a new TL account because I haven't logged into my other one in about 3.5 years and didn't feel like trying to figure out the password. Like I said, you should stop posting because you're now coming off as arrogant as well as stupid.
On June 16 2014 05:01 Trubs wrote: TB, you gave your opinion about what you'd do, and then immediately berated someone else who gave his opinion about what he'd do in the same situation acting like your opinion is so much more valuable and nobody should disagree. Personally I think his solution was much more reasonable. Why don't you shut the hell up before making yourself look even more ignorant, rude, and stupid in this thread.
Generally I would take opinions on how to run a team from someone who runs a team over someone who does not, much like I would take medical advice from a doctor rather than someone posting on a TL thread who I don't know or I would take legal advice from a lawyer rather than someone posting on a TL thread who I don't know or x expert in some field over that aforementioned TL poster.
I occasionally come back to tl in recent years and what is the north American Starcraft scene up to? - Drama and little in the way of results or anything positive. Oh well, check back in a few more months I suppose for my seasonal dose of e-sport disappointment.
On June 16 2014 05:01 Trubs wrote: TB, you gave your opinion about what you'd do, and then immediately berated someone else who gave his opinion about what he'd do in the same situation acting like your opinion is so much more valuable and nobody should disagree. Personally I think his solution was much more reasonable. Why don't you shut the hell up before making yourself look even more ignorant, rude, and stupid in this thread.
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work. I have more experience and standing so my opinion is worth more. That's how it works in all walks of life.
Oh come on. The big gaming news outlets have more experience and standing, does that mean their opinions should trump yours?
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
If you read back a few pages you can see that I did read that and clarify. And yeah I see the community getting overall more mature without Ruff being on a legit team given what he said.
On June 16 2014 04:36 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Apologies. He was saying it's embarrassing to be a part of this community that does this to players. I was just saying that what happened to Ruff is justified (him being kicked)
Bad wording on my part.
You want apologies? He already apologized afaik.
Haha i think you misunderstood a bit
Well, sorry if that is so.
To clarify: DH didn't want apologies, he apologies himself for the confusion his earlier post caused, since someone misunderstood it.
Which caused further confusion. Darkhorse the cryptic post champion
Yes, I was about to demand another apology from him for that, but since we are in a rather serious topic here, that would probably have beeen inappropriate.
Well, I understand the posts now. My apologies for my misunderstanding it at first. Let's get this thread back on track
I meant another apology from Darkhorse, not from you. I apologize for not califying that.
On June 16 2014 05:01 Trubs wrote: TB, you gave your opinion about what you'd do, and then immediately berated someone else who gave his opinion about what he'd do in the same situation acting like your opinion is so much more valuable and nobody should disagree. Personally I think his solution was much more reasonable. Why don't you shut the hell up before making yourself look even more ignorant, rude, and stupid in this thread.
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work. I have more experience and standing so my opinion is worth more. That's how it works in all walks of life.
Oh come on. The big gaming news outlets have more experience and standing, does that mean their opinions should trump yours?
Not in the field of running a team that's for sure which is what we're talking about here.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
If you read back a few pages you can see that I did read that and clarify. And yeah I see the community getting overall more mature without Ruff being on a legit team given what he said.
I saw when I posted - you are trying to dismantle what I am saying by focusing on stupid things
And if that's really what you think, then you should have said that originally, because I agree with that point. But that has nothing to do with what I said and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
On June 16 2014 05:01 Trubs wrote: TB, you gave your opinion about what you'd do, and then immediately berated someone else who gave his opinion about what he'd do in the same situation acting like your opinion is so much more valuable and nobody should disagree. Personally I think his solution was much more reasonable. Why don't you shut the hell up before making yourself look even more ignorant, rude, and stupid in this thread.
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work. I have more experience and standing so my opinion is worth more. That's how it works in all walks of life.
Oh come on. The big gaming news outlets have more experience and standing, does that mean their opinions should trump yours?
Not IGN. Because of obvious reasons.
But seriously TB is an owner of the one of the most popular teams in SC at the moment, his opinion is probably only one or two steps down from Mike Morihame
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
If you read back a few pages you can see that I did read that and clarify. And yeah I see the community getting overall more mature without Ruff being on a legit team given what he said.
I saw when I posted - you are trying to dismantle what I am saying by focusing on stupid things
And if that's really what you think, then you should have said that originally, because I agree with that point. But that has nothing to do with what I said and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
Wow... Do you have any idea how wrong that is to say man? Just lost a fan :s
What hole I made? I don't think it's bad that he got kicked and I think the community is improved by him being gone. You want to call it a "witch hunt" but I call it deserved. The community should react negatively to this kind of thing...
Also although I'm sure TB is devastated by losing you but do you honestly think everyone has an equal opinion in everything? Being a team owner he should have a more credible opinion in that field then someone who has never run a team.
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
I think TB can be narcissistic from time to time and I don't always agree with his opinions. However in this case that is how the world works whether you like or agree with it or not. He does have experience in this realm (running a team) so his opinions based on experience hold more water than the opinion of a random guy. Your boss who has run the company for 20 years opinion matters more than yours. The doctor's opinions on medicine hold more weight than yours. Those opinions matter simply because of experience, they don't just talk the talk they've lived it.
But how is a little guy with some good ideas get his voice heard?! He does by explaining in detail his ideas and why he thinks they're a better way to do things. If you just blurt out an opinion without explaining the thought process behind it no one with more experience is going to listen, end of story. That is the way of the world.
On June 16 2014 05:16 acerimmer wrote: I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
Yes, but Idra has a huge following in Starcarft. Easier and less risky to pull morality ranks on little fish like Ruff.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
If you read back a few pages you can see that I did read that and clarify. And yeah I see the community getting overall more mature without Ruff being on a legit team given what he said.
I saw when I posted - you are trying to dismantle what I am saying by focusing on stupid things
And if that's really what you think, then you should have said that originally, because I agree with that point. But that has nothing to do with what I said and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
On June 16 2014 05:11 Swagasaurus wrote:
On June 16 2014 05:04 TotalBiscuit wrote:
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
Wow... Do you have any idea how wrong that is to say man? Just lost a fan :s
What hole I made? I don't think it's bad that he got kicked and I think the community is improved by him being gone. You want to call it a "witch hunt" but I call it deserved. The community should react negatively to this kind of thing...
Also although I'm sure TB is devastated by losing you but do you honestly think everyone has an equal opinion in everything? Being a team owner he should have a more credible opinion in that field then someone who has never run a team.
I think I just realized that I am getting a little too old to be talking to children on a forum. If you think a witch hunt is ever deserved (which I never said which hunt) , the conversation should be over
And twisting words around might work on some people, but not me. Credible is one thing - what TB said was completely different. I'm going to go outside and do healthy things, enjoy the monitor tan 16k + poster!
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
It's not nice seeing TB say that but he is speaking the truth here. It's how the world should work. But often, it doesn't. This thread is actually turning out rather ugly.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
If you read back a few pages you can see that I did read that and clarify. And yeah I see the community getting overall more mature without Ruff being on a legit team given what he said.
I saw when I posted - you are trying to dismantle what I am saying by focusing on stupid things
And if that's really what you think, then you should have said that originally, because I agree with that point. But that has nothing to do with what I said and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
On June 16 2014 05:11 Swagasaurus wrote:
On June 16 2014 05:04 TotalBiscuit wrote:
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
Wow... Do you have any idea how wrong that is to say man? Just lost a fan :s
What hole I made? I don't think it's bad that he got kicked and I think the community is improved by him being gone. You want to call it a "witch hunt" but I call it deserved. The community should react negatively to this kind of thing...
Also although I'm sure TB is devastated by losing you but do you honestly think everyone has an equal opinion in everything? Being a team owner he should have a more credible opinion in that field then someone who has never run a team.
I think I just realized that I am getting a little too old to be talking to children on a forum. If you think a witch hunt is ever deserved (which I never said which hunt) , the conversation should be over
And twisting words around might work on some people, but not me. Credible is one thing - what TB said was completely different. I'm going to go outside and do healthy things, enjoy the monitor tan 16k + poster!
Calling him a child (which is untrue from the information I have) and judging him by his post count doesn't win you anything in this debate. It just makes you look bad.
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
If you read back a few pages you can see that I did read that and clarify. And yeah I see the community getting overall more mature without Ruff being on a legit team given what he said.
I saw when I posted - you are trying to dismantle what I am saying by focusing on stupid things
And if that's really what you think, then you should have said that originally, because I agree with that point. But that has nothing to do with what I said and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
On June 16 2014 05:11 Swagasaurus wrote:
On June 16 2014 05:04 TotalBiscuit wrote:
You can disagree, but my opinion is so much more valuable, that's how opinions work.
The narcissism is real.
Wow... Do you have any idea how wrong that is to say man? Just lost a fan :s
What hole I made? I don't think it's bad that he got kicked and I think the community is improved by him being gone. You want to call it a "witch hunt" but I call it deserved. The community should react negatively to this kind of thing...
Also although I'm sure TB is devastated by losing you but do you honestly think everyone has an equal opinion in everything? Being a team owner he should have a more credible opinion in that field then someone who has never run a team.
I think I just realized that I am getting a little too old to be talking to children on a forum. If you think a witch hunt is ever deserved (which I never said which hunt) , the conversation should be over
And twisting words around might work on some people, but not me. Credible is one thing - what TB said was completely different. I'm going to go outside and do healthy things, enjoy the monitor tan 16k + poster!
Wow I thought we were having an actual discussion. Then you decided, "Hmm nope I don't wanna do this anymore. Let's call him a child and make fun of him because he has a lot of posts which I have used to justify the conclusion that he is a shut in"
Also lynching/witch hunt are pretty close (witch is how you spell it in that instance by the way). Your second paragraph makes no sense. I didn't twist words, but I'm glad you are confident in your own abilities in determining when words are being twisted! You also seem to be one of those people who think putting after your arguments makes them better.
On June 16 2014 05:16 acerimmer wrote: I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
Yes, but Idra has a huge following in Starcarft. Easier and less risky to pull morality ranks on little fish like Ruff.
I think it's apples and oranges, not a popularity thing. I'm not condoning Idra for a second but there's a difference between wishing disease on a person and knowingly insulting a persons disease. It would be like the difference between TB's thing that he said in anger years ago and well...if someone said to TB now....I won't finish that
On June 16 2014 05:16 acerimmer wrote: I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
Yes, but Idra has a huge following in Starcarft. Easier and less risky to pull morality ranks on little fish like Ruff.
I think it's apples and oranges, not a popularity thing. I'm not condoning Idra for a second but there's a difference between wishing disease on a person and knowingly insulting a persons disease. It would be like the difference between TB's thing that he said in anger years ago and well...if someone said to TB now....I won't finish that
On June 16 2014 04:33 EarthwormJim wrote: I feel like people need to grow tougher skins.
I have witnessed a few of these public lynching.. kind of embarrassing to be part of a community where the maturity level is so low - then again, you see it in politics too. Must be some phenomenon that happens I'm not aware of, could be just a human thing I guess. Like that psychology study Stanford prison experiment or some schadenfreude type of deal.
Maturity level is low because we're trying to get rid of someone who shit on a seriously sick person? Maybe we're trying to increase the average maturity level here.
what do you mean by that? he's already been kicked out of his team. What else do you want
Well said psycho - I hope darkhorse reads that.
Also, crohne's disease is very unpleasant but I wouldn't define that as a seriously sick person - and frankly I didn't see him shit on a sick person - his comments were more or less envious of the money, no?
I have coeliac's disease - I don't consider myself in danger even though I was unaware of my disease and was malnourished for a very long time (majority of my life). My best friend's brother has crohne's disease - it's terrible, but he doesn't consider himself to be seriously ill.
A lot of people are looking at what Ruff said as some attack on his health situation, where it's more or less about the money he received in a plea for sympathy. And tbh, I doubt the envy part is true either, sounds like Ruff was pissed off and used the guy's weakness to hurt him, which is typical symptom of anger.
Which brings me back to my original point - the maturity of this community is low - but you see it everywhere, so I wonder if it's just a human thing. To reply to what you said , you are certainly not increasing the maturity level - the complete opposite.
OK so I retract what I said about my coeliac and crohne's, doesn't effect the rest of the things I said, which was my original point.
If you are dying or not - sounds like the guy was just pissy, and now the community is lynching him. Seen it a few times in this community - as with politics when a guy says binder full of women, etc.
He had part if his intestine removed.....the struggle is fucking real. He had four huge abscesses in his intestine. You can die from that. Crohnes can fucking kill you and I don't know why people think otherwise.
Pro-tip for life when you are a professional at anything. Don't stay jerky things about really sick people, even if you truly feel they might taking advantage of their sickness(I do not think mingun did that, but clearly Ruff did). And if you can't control yourself and must say them, don't say them out loud, on video where people can replay them over and over.
You are entitled to your opinion, but don't expect your job to back you up and protect your ability to say your opinion on video. Thats not really a thing jobs do.
What's even worse than Ruff's comments are the people SUPPORTING him. "He was 100% right. He did not even insult someone. Minigun begged for money because he is sick, nothing wrong saying that." Are you... serious? How can you even bring yourself to write that? How can you sit there and type that out and press "post" without thinking to yourself "holy fuck I'm an asshole, I need to close the browser right now and forget I ever wrote that." How the fuck do you sleep at night. I mean he didn't even ask for shit, the fundraiser WASN'T HIS IDEA! Some kind heart from the community saw that he needed help and decided to start the fundraiser. God damnit, people make me sick sometimes.
At least Ruff had the sense to apologize and admit that he made his comment while in a fit of rage and didn't think about what he was saying. You're sitting on teamliquid reading a thread with all the time in the world to think about what you want to say, and THAT is what you come up with? I can only hope that you just created that account for the sole purpose of starting drama and that you don't really believe what you said to be true.
On June 16 2014 05:16 acerimmer wrote: I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
Yes, but Idra has a huge following in Starcarft. Easier and less risky to pull morality ranks on little fish like Ruff.
I think it's apples and oranges, not a popularity thing. I'm not condoning Idra for a second but there's a difference between wishing disease on a person and knowingly insulting a persons disease.
Bullshit. Both are equally terrible but with the first one you can hide behind the "sorry didn't know" excuse when you wish cancer on someone who suffered from it without you knowing it.
You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
I don't even find this argument surprisingly anymore, if anything it's just boring. I used to be in college once and thought that everyones opinion was of equal value. Then I got a job, turns out nope, it's not. If anything the internet only serves to make it obvious that opinions are so numerous that they individually hold very little value.
Oh come on. The big gaming news outlets have more experience and standing, does that mean their opinions should trump yours?
A few years ago, sure, but since then their standing has fallen and their "experience" is watered down by a bunch of talented people leaving the industry. It'd be hard to say now that Sessler has left for instance that Rev3 has more standing and experience than I do, but while he was there, I'd have said absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt that his opinion trumps mine when it comes to industry matters.
I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him. That screen shot doesn't show the context of their relationship.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
I don't even find this argument surprisingly anymore, if anything it's just boring. I used to be in college once and thought that everyones opinion was of equal value. Then I got a job, turns out nope, it's not. If anything the internet only serves to make it obvious that opinions are so numerous that they individually hold very little value.
Oh come on. The big gaming news outlets have more experience and standing, does that mean their opinions should trump yours?
A few years ago, sure, but since then their standing has fallen and their "experience" is watered down by a bunch of talented people leaving the industry. It'd be hard to say now that Sessler has left for instance that Rev3 has more standing and experience than I do, but while he was there, I'd have said absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt that his opinion trumps mine when it comes to industry matters.
Gaming review opinions are also much more subjective as a whole than something like running a business or being a fucked up human being.
Sometimes a reviewer might not be into a genre or might not "get" a game on some level that another person might. Gaming reviews you have to take with a grain of salt based on the reviewer and how their opinions stack against yours as a consumer. You might just dig RTS games and this reviewer isn't a fan and doesn't see the intricacies. You might just like stupid garbage games and that's your right.
Running a business is much more clear cut. We need to make money and this person or action diminishes our ability to do so. You then fire that person or stop that action immediately before it fucks you up too much. Being a decent human being is also generally more clear cut. This guy does X or loves Y, it is objectively fucked up to do X or love Y as agreed on by any sensible person or society as a whole.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
Ruff was streaming at the time as far as I know, so it was public anyway. Also if a player is being that immature and abrasive I don't mind them being exposed.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
Nah, I bet way less than half of them said something as big.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
Both Minigun and Ruff were streaming when he said that, I don't think it would have mattered. Also, why SHOULDN'T Minigun post it on twitter? The guy laughed at him for having Crohn's disease, fuck him, He deserves everything he gets.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
You don't seem to have read what I said.
This was a publicly streamed game, it was already public. The chat logs were already public. T
If half the sc2 progamers act like this then we could do without them. By that I think you mean a bunch of trash low-GM NA players and the occasional BM Russian. No, actual progamers do not do things like this.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
Ruff was streaming at the time as far as I know, so it was public anyway. Also if a player is being that immature and abrasive I don't mind them being exposed.
I agree. Bad choice of words by Ruff, and I think appropriate measures were taken... and Ruff manned up and apologized, so hopefully this blows over.
It depends on which hospital Minigun stayed at but the markups done by a hospital for medications, procedures, doctors is ridiculously high. Each doctor is billed separately, every night stayed is billed, dumb shit will be billed, all the tests are billed separately... If you guys haven't ever seen extensive medical billing you'd be shocked. Plus as Minigun mentioned, some nurses (again, SOME nurses) really don't care. I'd walk into the patient's room and I'll sometimes get people water or wettened paper towels so they could blow their nose since they were bed ridden and their nurses hadn't checked in on them in almost 2 hours. Like Minigun said, you must be assertive, NOT RUDE, in order to get quality care from some nurses....
That said, you forum lurkers underestimating American hospital bills have no fucking clue lol. A few days stay (as admitted/inpatient) at the hospital I worked at for a while involving a surgery or 2 usually amounted to ~35,000 at least....
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
You don't seem to have read what I said.
This was a publicly streamed game, it was already public. The chat logs were already public. T
If half the sc2 progamers act like this then we could do without them. By that I think you mean a bunch of trash low-GM NA players and the occasional BM Russian. No, actual progamers do not do things like this.
Even if it's a publicly streamed game, it's not brought to attention till someone takes a screenshot and brings it to attention. It ended up on Mini's twitter so I hope for his sake he's an angel online so as to not be a hypocrite.
Anyway, I'm really not trying to defend Ruff. The guy lost his team for a comment in a game. I think that's enough.
The actions this community has taken against Ruff remind me that we embrace the mantra "More GG, More Skill." This gives me pride in our SC2 community. We cannot let our moral standards drop to such a level that we accept low-blow insults as "part of the game." Our current intolerance for disrespect, if maintained, will continue to transform SC2 into a more viable advertising platform and will encourage the growth we all so desperately want to see.
On June 16 2014 03:10 RuFF_SC2 wrote: I want to apologize for what I said to Minigun on the ladder. I know now that what I said was inexcusable and with that came the ultimate punishment by losing the team that I enjoy being with the most. I did not think when I was typing and I should have kept my personal opinions to myself. I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat. I should have more of a professional character and not get upset by such banter. When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried. The people on this team have the best of hearts and when it comes to management, they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing.
I saved my step brother 5 years ago by spotting his cancer early at Rapids Waterpark in Florida when I noticed he was walking with a limp. He became part of Make-A-Wish foundation and has recovered from his cancer since then. I felt obligated to say this because I do not want to come across as a heartless person. I tend to get away from the issues in RL and not think while playing StarCraft.
I have had beef with Minigun since WoL and admit to holding a grudge because I treated him like a friend when we both were learning how to play Terran at some point we clashed on ladder and went our separate ways. Still ultimately what I said was inexcusable and I hope that he gets better from his illness. I should treat people like I would in person as if there was not a computer screen in front of me.
I hope that the community sees this as an appropriate action even though I am saddened by the decision. Best wishes to everyone and I hope this does not effect the community in a negative aspect.
This is the apology of a sociopath. You shift blame onto the person you're apologizing to (I lashed out in rage because of the comment Minigun said and also because someone said he was in my stream chat). You appeal for sympathy for yourself (When I was told that I was removed from IVD Gaming I literally cried). You try to smooth relations with people who have more power than you ( they only want to strive to ensure that e-sports becomes a popular thing). As soon as possible, you try to segue into a story in which you are the hero.
People see through you. Get help.
Above is a comment of person of questionable mental health who spends too much time reading about mental disorders. Get help.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
You don't seem to have read what I said.
This was a publicly streamed game, it was already public. The chat logs were already public. T
If half the sc2 progamers act like this then we could do without them. By that I think you mean a bunch of trash low-GM NA players and the occasional BM Russian. No, actual progamers do not do things like this.
Even if it's a publicly streamed game, it's not brought to attention till someone takes a screenshot and brings it to attention. It ended up on Mini's twitter so I hope for his sake he's an angel online so as to not be a hypocrite.
Anyway, I'm really not trying to defend Ruff. The guy lost his team for a comment in a game. I think that's enough.
You do not need to be an angel online to criticize the behavior of others. Hypocrisy is the most misunderstood and frankly worthless term that is often used to try and attack someones credibility. It actually doesn't matter. You're not running for public office, nobody really gives a fuck. 4 years ago I told someone to get cancer and die. Shitty thing to do, I said it in anger, the guy got caught in the crossfire of 4chan trolling me over the UK government refusing to let my wife into the country to see me, my marriage was on the brink of being over, I thought I'd never see my kid again. Still a shitty thing to do. 2 years ago I called someone who was trying to steal money from a charity stream for the disabled a faggot. I should have used a different word, that was my fault and I apologized publicly later on, even though my hateful thoughts towards the thief were entirely justified.
That does not however in any way make me a hypocrite for calling Ruff out for being a piece of shit to Chad and frankly even if it did? Who the fuck cares? Life doesn't keep score. You don't lose points for logical fallacies, you don't get banned from anything for hypocrisy, it's not a bloody college moot or a high school debate team. In this case it would not be hard for Chad to avoid being a hypocrite, all he needs to do is not personally insult someone while using knowledge of their crippling disease to twist the knife. ACTUALLY, THAT'S NOT A DIFFICULT THING TO AVOID, TURNS OUT. He can BM, he can do whatever and frankly, short of eating a baby, he's still a better person than Ruff.
So to hell with hypocrisy and the people who place so much importance on trying to pin it on people. Everyone is a hypocrite at some point in their lives but we can say one thing for sure, Ruff was being a piece of shit to Chad and got punished for it. Fin.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
You don't seem to have read what I said.
This was a publicly streamed game, it was already public. The chat logs were already public. T
If half the sc2 progamers act like this then we could do without them. By that I think you mean a bunch of trash low-GM NA players and the occasional BM Russian. No, actual progamers do not do things like this.
Even if it's a publicly streamed game, it's not brought to attention till someone takes a screenshot and brings it to attention. It ended up on Mini's twitter so I hope for his sake he's an angel online so as to not be a hypocrite.
Anyway, I'm really not trying to defend Ruff. The guy lost his team for a comment in a game. I think that's enough.
How is that not brought to attention? Ruff's viewers saw it, Minigun's viewers saw it. People knew about it. I don't blame Minigun at all for spreading the fact that Ruff said that.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
You don't seem to have read what I said.
This was a publicly streamed game, it was already public. The chat logs were already public. T
If half the sc2 progamers act like this then we could do without them. By that I think you mean a bunch of trash low-GM NA players and the occasional BM Russian. No, actual progamers do not do things like this.
Even if it's a publicly streamed game, it's not brought to attention till someone takes a screenshot and brings it to attention. It ended up on Mini's twitter so I hope for his sake he's an angel online so as to not be a hypocrite.
Anyway, I'm really not trying to defend Ruff. The guy lost his team for a comment in a game. I think that's enough.
How is that not brought to attention? Ruff's viewers saw it, Minigun's viewers saw it. People knew about it. I don't blame Minigun at all for spreading the fact that Ruff said that.
Nah man, if you get mugged or something, don't tell anyone about it, it's just causing more drama, keep it quiet.
With the amount of strawmanning, ad hominems and other BS in this thread, I'm oddly glad that Ruff's the progamer here and not half the forumers. At this point, I'm all for Ruff dusting himself off, leveling his head a bit more before returning to the pro-scene. He got his punishment, it was just in the context in which it was delivered, and now he's teamless. If he can return to the game with a better mindset (and better "APM"), all the more power to him. If not... well, I don't think we'd mind losing one more insensitive gamer.
Something tells me that removing RuFF from IvD is abit overkill. Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really. But i guess it was a very serious thing for the team though. ow well don't really care though cause i dont even know who RuFF is :p
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Something tells me that removing RuFF from IvD is abit overkill. Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really. But i guess it was a very serious thing for the team though. ow well don't really care though cause i dont even know who RuFF is :p
Probably would have found it more offensive in Minigun's shoes. And yeah it was a serious issue for IvD to have someone who acted like that on their team. Simple as that.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
You don't seem to have read what I said.
This was a publicly streamed game, it was already public. The chat logs were already public. T
If half the sc2 progamers act like this then we could do without them. By that I think you mean a bunch of trash low-GM NA players and the occasional BM Russian. No, actual progamers do not do things like this.
Even if it's a publicly streamed game, it's not brought to attention till someone takes a screenshot and brings it to attention. It ended up on Mini's twitter so I hope for his sake he's an angel online so as to not be a hypocrite.
Anyway, I'm really not trying to defend Ruff. The guy lost his team for a comment in a game. I think that's enough.
How is that not brought to attention? Ruff's viewers saw it, Minigun's viewers saw it. People knew about it. I don't blame Minigun at all for spreading the fact that Ruff said that.
Nah man, if you get mugged or something, don't tell anyone about it, it's just causing more drama, keep it quiet.
And if you have a super serious disease and need money to travel to do your job, don't take money from your local church or charity. That's begging.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
You don't seem to have read what I said.
This was a publicly streamed game, it was already public. The chat logs were already public. T
If half the sc2 progamers act like this then we could do without them. By that I think you mean a bunch of trash low-GM NA players and the occasional BM Russian. No, actual progamers do not do things like this.
Even if it's a publicly streamed game, it's not brought to attention till someone takes a screenshot and brings it to attention. It ended up on Mini's twitter so I hope for his sake he's an angel online so as to not be a hypocrite.
Anyway, I'm really not trying to defend Ruff. The guy lost his team for a comment in a game. I think that's enough.
You do not need to be an angel online to criticize the behavior of others. Hypocrisy is the most misunderstood and frankly worthless term that is often used to try and attack someones credibility. It actually doesn't matter. You're not running for public office, nobody really gives a fuck. 4 years ago I told someone to get cancer and die. Shitty thing to do, I said it in anger, the guy got caught in the crossfire of 4chan trolling me over the UK government refusing to let my wife into the country to see me, my marriage was on the brink of being over, I thought I'd never see my kid again. Still a shitty thing to do. 2 years ago I called someone who was trying to steal money from a charity stream for the disabled a faggot. I should have used a different word, that was my fault and I apologized publicly later on, even though my hateful thoughts towards the thief were entirely justified.
That does not however in any way make me a hypocrite for calling Ruff out for being a piece of shit to Chad and frankly even if it did? Who the fuck cares? Life doesn't keep score. You don't lose points for logical fallacies, you don't get banned from anything for hypocrisy, it's not a bloody college moot or a high school debate team. In this case it would not be hard for Chad to avoid being a hypocrite, all he needs to do is not personally insult someone while using knowledge of their crippling disease to twist the knife. ACTUALLY, THAT'S NOT A DIFFICULT THING TO AVOID, TURNS OUT. He can BM, he can do whatever and frankly, short of eating a baby, he's still a better person than Ruff.
So to hell with hypocrisy and the people who place so much importance on trying to pin it on people. Everyone is a hypocrite at some point in their lives but we can say one thing for sure, Ruff was being a piece of shit to Chad and got punished for it. Fin.
Nice post.
You're pointing out two isolated incidents where you lashed out at someone and then apologized. If you regularly lashed out at people, it would be hard for you to criticize people for doing the same.
As for your comment "all he needs to do is not personally insult someone while using knowledge of their crippling disease to twist the knife. " This is true, but like I said, we don't know the context of their relationship and that is why I'm against posting screenshots publicly. He could have just done nothing. He could have told Ruff he wouldn't put up with any more comments like that or he could've pmed the team manager. Instead, he got Ruff fired and he's happy about it. Mini's comment: "Thank you. I hoped you guys wouldn't let something like this be allowed, especially with your background. It was uncalled for." Now, maybe he's justified in doing so. I don't know. Like you said, punishment served, fin.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
I would imagine that i still wouldnt be offended by it even if i was targetet by it but thats just me.
Imagine harder. In that imagined world imagine you have Crohns disease and have had serious surgery. Now imagine that you have medical bills in the 10s of thousands. Pretty shitty situation right? Then imagine that some guy who's supposed to be a professional verbally abuses you about it. Now are you getting offended? Don't worry, you're just imagining. It's not real. However for Minigun it is real! Now you see! We've all grown.
On June 16 2014 05:16 acerimmer wrote: I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
Yes, but Idra has a huge following in Starcarft. Easier and less risky to pull morality ranks on little fish like Ruff.
I think it's apples and oranges, not a popularity thing. I'm not condoning Idra for a second but there's a difference between wishing disease on a person and knowingly insulting a persons disease.
Bullshit. Both are equally terrible but with the first one you can hide behind the "sorry didn't know" excuse when you wish cancer on someone who suffered from it without you knowing it.
In a righteous world I agree. But the world isn't righteous, we all say things in the heat of anger we regret, Wrong happens, it's just a matter of degrees. Minigun's disease was known and of all people a rival chose to go over the line with it, against "Random Player/Person on the internet" you have no way of knowing. Pro Sports players still use any number of homosexual or racial slurs in the heat of battle. But you wait and see the backlash the first time someone uses a slur on Michael Sam.
On June 16 2014 02:54 GOAL wrote: He was 100% right. He did not even insult someone. Minigun begged for money because he is sick, nothing wrong saying that.
User was banned for this post. Previously Banned User.
Do you have ANY idea how expensive a hospital is in the US?
In most areas it's $2,000-$4,000 for a share room.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
I would imagine that i still wouldnt be offended by it even if i was targetet by it but thats just me.
Sorry, but who cares that you would or wouldn't be offended?
It's considered to be in poor taste to make fun of a person's disability, disease, or otherwise unfortunate situation, and so it was dealt with. And now we should all move on.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
Saying that would mean that Minigun is the only of that can condemn Ruff for what he has done because he is the only one targetet by Ruff's comment... please don't be such a hypocrite. Everone can say his/her opinion about this dreadfull comment.
On June 16 2014 05:55 TRaFFiC wrote: I would like to say I've been watching Ruff for 3 years on twitch. His comment was disgusting, but it is not his norm. He is a very level headed guy. I haven't watched him much since switching to zerg, but I don't recall him bming much at all.
Why did Mini post that screen shot? I think that's half as bad. Solve these things internally. Don't spread your dirty laundry to the internet. Obviously people are going to fell sorry for him.
Ruff got the punishment. Now let him start new.
Let's stop blaming the victim shall we. "Dirty laundry" is such a fucking stupid term. This did not happen in a private room, it was a game that was being streamed. It was already out there. Minigun after being insulted in such a personal way has every right to shine a light on this behavior for the world to see.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have pro gamers posting chat logs publicly. Good manner is very important to me, but if we start a war like this, half of the sc2 pro gamers are going to be in hot water.
Lol fortunately half of the sc2 pro gamers don't take cheap shots at people with serious medical conditions asking for help. Forget good manner, if it was very important to you that people refrain from being scummy losers you wouldn't be laying any blame on Minigun.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
Saying that would mean that Minigun is the only of that can condemn Ruff for what he has done because he is the only one targetet by Ruff's comment... please don't be such a hypocrite. Everone can say his/her opinion about this dreadfull comment.
Didn't we just go over the whole, "it's not the opinion, but the weight of the opinion" in the last ten pages?
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
I would imagine that i still wouldnt be offended by it even if i was targetet by it but thats just me.
Sorry, but who cares that you would or wouldn't be offended?
Of course nobody cares about my view of things but thats not gonna stop me from expressing my opinion on this forum. And yes we should all move on, in fact we should all stop posting in this thread and leave it at that but i doubt thats gonna happen either.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
I would imagine that i still wouldnt be offended by it even if i was targetet by it but thats just me.
Sorry, but who cares that you would or wouldn't be offended?
Of course nobody cares about my view of things but thats not gonna stop me from expressing my opinion on this forum. And yes we should all move on, in fact we should all stop posting in this thread and leave it at that but i doubt thats gonna happen either.
You only copied part of my post. Why do you find it's appropriate to make fun of a person's disability, disease, or otherwise unfortunate situation?
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
I would imagine that i still wouldnt be offended by it even if i was targetet by it but thats just me.
Lol k, imagine this; you're suffering from a serious disease and just had a terrible stay at the hospital where you had multiple(?) surgeries and were treated like shit. You then finally get home after that experience, which costs you a fuck load of money, and decide to play some sc2 to get your mind of things and maybe ask for some help with the bills if people are willing. So you're playing and some fat fuck 30 y/o rips on you for asking for help and insults you... Personally I'd want to go to his house and kick his teeth in, but you, me, or anyone else would at least be offended.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
I would imagine that i still wouldnt be offended by it even if i was targetet by it but thats just me.
Sorry, but who cares that you would or wouldn't be offended?
Of course nobody cares about my view of things but thats not gonna stop me from expressing my opinion on this forum. And yes we should all move on, in fact we should all stop posting in this thread and leave it at that but i doubt thats gonna happen either.
You only copied part of my post. Why do you find it's appropriate to make fun of a person's disability, disease, or otherwise unfortunate situation?
I don't find it appropriate but i generally don't understand why people are so bothered about what other people say about them. You cant really take things like that close. It's just words after all.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
I would imagine that i still wouldnt be offended by it even if i was targetet by it but thats just me.
Sorry, but who cares that you would or wouldn't be offended?
Of course nobody cares about my view of things but thats not gonna stop me from expressing my opinion on this forum. And yes we should all move on, in fact we should all stop posting in this thread and leave it at that but i doubt thats gonna happen either.
You only copied part of my post. Why do you find it's appropriate to make fun of a person's disability, disease, or otherwise unfortunate situation?
I don't find it appropriate but i generally don't understand why people are so bothered about what other people say about them. You cant really take things like that close. It's just words after all.
Some people are offended by words. Sometimes they get really upset by it and sometimes it causes really harmful things like violence and wars. The whole reductive "Its only words" argument doesn't really work when you think about speech and how powerful it has been throughout history.
On June 16 2014 05:16 acerimmer wrote: I was debating to stop my sub for his twitch stream but with him losing his team, I'm having second thoughts. I can definitely understand banning him from your tournaments TB, but saying an apology is nothing... You did work (have him co-cast) with Idra after he F'd up.
Yes, but Idra has a huge following in Starcarft. Easier and less risky to pull morality ranks on little fish like Ruff.
I think it's apples and oranges, not a popularity thing. I'm not condoning Idra for a second but there's a difference between wishing disease on a person and knowingly insulting a persons disease.
Bullshit. Both are equally terrible but with the first one you can hide behind the "sorry didn't know" excuse when you wish cancer on someone who suffered from it without you knowing it.
In a righteous world I agree. But the world isn't righteous, we all say things in the heat of anger we regret, Wrong happens, it's just a matter of degrees.
True, we all say things that we regret. I'm just saying that everyone who ever wished death or a terminal disease on someone should get of their fucking high horse.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
I would imagine that i still wouldnt be offended by it even if i was targetet by it but thats just me.
Sorry, but who cares that you would or wouldn't be offended?
Of course nobody cares about my view of things but thats not gonna stop me from expressing my opinion on this forum. And yes we should all move on, in fact we should all stop posting in this thread and leave it at that but i doubt thats gonna happen either.
You only copied part of my post. Why do you find it's appropriate to make fun of a person's disability, disease, or otherwise unfortunate situation?
I don't find it appropriate but i generally don't understand why people are so bothered about what other people say about them. You cant really take things like that close. It's just words after all.
Some people are more sensitive than others, and I think its very understandable to think someone might have a higher sensitivity level after just going through a life threatening situation. You can't blame minigun for feeling more vulnerable right now. He didn't ask for the disease, he didn't ask to go through 2 expensive surgeries, he didn't beg for money. He got dealt a shit hand that he has no control over. Even if this whole thing was a big joke (which it wasn't) I think even the most level headed person would agree its "too soon".
On June 16 2014 02:54 GOAL wrote: He was 100% right. He did not even insult someone. Minigun begged for money because he is sick, nothing wrong saying that.
User was banned for this post. Previously Banned User.
Do you have ANY idea how expensive a hospital is in the US?
In most areas it's $2,000-$4,000 for a share room.
To spend weeks there is going to cost A LOT!
Per night? That is just insane. If you think about that, it's probably cheaper to fly to europe, getting treatment there and than flying back.
On June 16 2014 06:59 Jan1997 wrote: I don't find it appropriate but i generally don't understand why people are so bothered about what other people say about them. You cant really take things like that close. It's just words after all.
If you are able to do that, that is great for you. It will likely make life a lot more relaxed for you. But not everyone has the same ability and you should try to understand their perspective. If someone with arachnophobia gets "attacked" by a spider, you also help them and don't just sit back and relax, knowing, that nothing will happen.
I really think this thread should stop the hunt to destroy ruff though, nothing good will come from it. He did apologize (even if some might not like his apology) and he got punished. He fucked up badly, the apology doesn't change what he did, but at the same time you have to give people a chance to change themselves. Hundreds of people sitting here bashing him into the ground isn't really doing the right thing either.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
Saying that would mean that Minigun is the only of that can condemn Ruff for what he has done because he is the only one targetet by Ruff's comment... please don't be such a hypocrite. Everone can say his/her opinion about this dreadfull comment.
Didn't we just go over the whole, "it's not the opinion, but the weight of the opinion" in the last ten pages?
I don't expect people to learn anything. They never do.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
Saying that would mean that Minigun is the only of that can condemn Ruff for what he has done because he is the only one targetet by Ruff's comment... please don't be such a hypocrite. Everone can say his/her opinion about this dreadfull comment.
Didn't we just go over the whole, "it's not the opinion, but the weight of the opinion" in the last ten pages?
I don't expect people to learn anything. They never do.
Could also be, that he just didn't read all ten pages. I've told at least 5 different people in yesterdays LR, that the broadcast begins at 18:00 CET. Have a bit more faith in humanity.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
Saying that would mean that Minigun is the only of that can condemn Ruff for what he has done because he is the only one targetet by Ruff's comment... please don't be such a hypocrite. Everone can say his/her opinion about this dreadfull comment.
Didn't we just go over the whole, "it's not the opinion, but the weight of the opinion" in the last ten pages?
I don't expect people to learn anything. They never do.
people need to start acting like esports is a job, you can't make fun of people at your place of work and get away with it. i am glad ivd took action, shows the level of class of their origination.
who´s bullshit was tolerated and enjoyed by our humble community for far longer then a reasonable time?
Yes Ruff might be an Asshole, yes his insult was highly inappropriate, but isn´t it just as mean to purposefully unleash a shitstorm at someone that costs him the only thing that he holds dear? Am i the only one that considers this a way over the top reaction by everyone involved? including every poster in this thread.
On June 16 2014 07:18 nkr wrote: I really think this thread should stop the hunt to destroy ruff though, nothing good will come from it. He did apologize (even if some might not like his apology) and he got punished. He fucked up badly, the apology doesn't change what he did, but at the same time you have to give people a chance to change themselves. Hundreds of people sitting here bashing him into the ground isn't really doing the right thing either.
Hunt to destroy ruff? I'm assuming being a low NA GM wasn't his job, and this thread was announcing him being kicked off the team, so the damage has already been dealt. Also, a lot of the comments are people arguing about the severity of the punishment, not bashing ruff.
On June 16 2014 06:19 Jan1997 wrote: Didn't really find his bm to be that offensive really
And since you weren't the one being targeted by it I doubt that's actually relevant to anyone.
Saying that would mean that Minigun is the only of that can condemn Ruff for what he has done because he is the only one targetet by Ruff's comment... please don't be such a hypocrite. Everone can say his/her opinion about this dreadfull comment.
Didn't we just go over the whole, "it's not the opinion, but the weight of the opinion" in the last ten pages?
I don't expect people to learn anything. They never do.
who´s bullshit was tolerated and enjoyed by our humble community for far longer then a reasonable time?
Yes Ruff might be an Asshole, yes his insult was highly inappropriate, but isn´t it just as mean to purposefully unleash a shitstorm at someone that costs him the only thing that he holds dear? Am i the only one that considers this a way over the top reaction by everyone involved? including every poster in this thread.
Not even IdrA would have said what ruff did knowing what minigun has gone through. And how can being on IvD be the only thing that a grown man holds dear? lmao if it were so important to him I'm sure he could stop himself from being a douche on ladder.
who´s bullshit was tolerated and enjoyed by our humble community for far longer then a reasonable time?
Yes Ruff might be an Asshole, yes his insult was highly inappropriate, but isn´t it just as mean to purposefully unleash a shitstorm at someone that costs him the only thing that he holds dear? Am i the only one that considers this a way over the top reaction by everyone involved? including every poster in this thread.
who´s bullshit was tolerated and enjoyed by our humble community for far longer then a reasonable time?
Yes Ruff might be an Asshole, yes his insult was highly inappropriate, but isn´t it just as mean to purposefully unleash a shitstorm at someone that costs him the only thing that he holds dear? Am i the only one that considers this a way over the top reaction by everyone involved? including every poster in this thread.
Yup, and idra was fired from EG for his comments.
IdrA was fired for insulting his (or EGs) fans, not for saying David Kim should be raped with a Tire Iron or all the insults he threw at other players.
On June 16 2014 07:18 nkr wrote: I really think this thread should stop the hunt to destroy ruff though, nothing good will come from it. He did apologize (even if some might not like his apology) and he got punished. He fucked up badly, the apology doesn't change what he did, but at the same time you have to give people a chance to change themselves. Hundreds of people sitting here bashing him into the ground isn't really doing the right thing either.
Hunt to destroy ruff? I'm assuming being a low NA GM wasn't his job, and this thread was announcing him being kicked off the team, so the damage has already been dealt. Also, a lot of the comments are people arguing about the severity of the punishment, not bashing ruff.
Not saying everyone is doing it, but there are still people on every page kicking the guy who's on the ground, which isn't better than what ruff did. Obviously arguing about what's appropriate action or not isn't what I was adressing.
who´s bullshit was tolerated and enjoyed by our humble community for far longer then a reasonable time?
Yes Ruff might be an Asshole, yes his insult was highly inappropriate, but isn´t it just as mean to purposefully unleash a shitstorm at someone that costs him the only thing that he holds dear? Am i the only one that considers this a way over the top reaction by everyone involved? including every poster in this thread.
Yup, and idra was fired from EG for his comments.
IdrA was fired for insulting his (or EGs) fans, not for saying David Kim should be raped with a Tire Iron or all the insults he threw at other players.
On June 16 2014 07:18 nkr wrote: I really think this thread should stop the hunt to destroy ruff though, nothing good will come from it. He did apologize (even if some might not like his apology) and he got punished. He fucked up badly, the apology doesn't change what he did, but at the same time you have to give people a chance to change themselves. Hundreds of people sitting here bashing him into the ground isn't really doing the right thing either.
Hunt to destroy ruff? I'm assuming being a low NA GM wasn't his job, and this thread was announcing him being kicked off the team, so the damage has already been dealt. Also, a lot of the comments are people arguing about the severity of the punishment, not bashing ruff.
Not saying everyone is doing it, but there are still people on every page kicking the guy who's on the ground, which isn't better than what ruff did. Obviously arguing about what's appropriate action or not isn't what I was adressing.
That's the thing with forums. Everyone is forming their opinion on the matter and posting it and you get amplified effects of a collective opinion that probably seems too much.
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
I really enjoy TB's expert opinion on how not to be an insensitive idiot. Plus the people he is arguing with aren't really worth well constructed argument. The flaming is good enough for them.
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
To be fair, this one does have an inkling of relevance to TB if you've followed the preceding events. So it is in some of his interest to take note of what occurs in this thread. (Still probably unhealthy and probably unwise for him to do so, nevertheless.)
Furthermore, it's not too unfair a comparison, if you've bothered to follow the reasoning (not to mention you've selectively overlooked that he also pooled car mechanics in said comparison, unless you believe it's narcissistic to compare yourself to a car mechanic): an expert in the field had greater weight in his opinion than do others less experienced, though it is only one factor to an opinion, one that can be superceded by other factors such as other contextual facts or compelling arguments with supporting evidence.
I agree what Ruff said was wrong, but one must look at the context of everything. I have watched Ruff's stream for about 2 years now. I probably watch his stream more than anyone.
Root players have been sniping him in the last 2 months. Not only sniping, but they have came into his chat and bm him. They have said things that have crossed the line. Was anything done? This is why I don't respect Root players. I have seen Root players like fayth, drewbie, caliber all guilty of that. There are probably more Root players but I can't recall the names at this time. They made it obvious they were sniping him as they were in the chat while playing Ruff. In addition, if you look at caliber's match history, 60-70% of his games were against Ruff.
I don't agree with IVD's punishment. I am assuming they watch Ruff's stream. If they did, they would understand the events that pushed Ruff to lash out. The punishment is way too severe. I think a 30 day suspension would be more appropriate. I hope IVD will reconsider. Root players should be punished as well for their actions.
Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt".
Well, is a little jerk. Life threatening disease isn't really something I joke about or mock people for having them isn't really a way to be showered with compliments.
On June 16 2014 08:37 Skew wrote: instigation w/ victim card follow-up is very effective
I don't expect people to learn anything. They never do.
Well I read your arguments with the postings with a little bit of amusement, and I must say that there are some things I partly have to disagree with you. First of all, in the internet nothing counts for most of the people, neither expierience nor a scientific proven argument. Also I don't think that it is good for a person of public intrest to get into "post fights", because I think people will take you les for serious, but that's more my opinion than anything proven (hey we've got an opinion).
On June 16 2014 08:37 Plansix wrote: Well, is a little jerk. Life threatening disease isn't really something I joke about or mock people for having them isn't really a way to be showered with compliments.
On June 16 2014 08:37 Skew wrote: instigation w/ victim card follow-up is very effective
The other option is to "take it like a man"?
I completely agree with the fact that calling minigun a 'sick boy' was wrong. Really fucked up, in fact...
But, dude, who hasn't ever lost their shit? How many dead mothers do you all think you have sworn out? How many real people with real aids have you told to go die of it, just because you lost a game? Ruff is like a puppy version of idra and people dealt with him for years.
Idra literally did. not. give. a. single. fuck. #missTSLdaysT_T
Guy who probably plays games more than he socializes + a bunch of other very, very similar guys baiting him ONLINE = ???
Kicking him seems like a little much. Especially if they aren't going to do poop to minigun (instigating all this useless drama) and iaguz (Seriously? Professional gamer calling someone a cunt on twitter is acceptable now?)
On June 16 2014 08:59 KingKayzz wrote: Kicking him seems like a little much. Especially if they aren't going to do poop to minigun (instigating all this useless drama) and iaguz (Seriously? Professional gamer calling someone a cunt on twitter is acceptable now?)
I don't see why not if the guy really did act like a cunt. No point in euphemizing something that's on the mind of everyone.
On June 16 2014 08:37 Plansix wrote: Well, is a little jerk. Life threatening disease isn't really something I joke about or mock people for having them isn't really a way to be showered with compliments.
On June 16 2014 08:37 Skew wrote: instigation w/ victim card follow-up is very effective
The other option is to "take it like a man"?
I completely agree with the fact that calling minigun a 'sick boy' was wrong. Really fucked up, in fact...
But, dude, who hasn't ever lost their shit? How many dead mothers do you all think you have sworn out? How many real people with real aids have you told to go die of it, just because you lost a game? Ruff is like a puppy version of idra and people dealt with him for years.
Idra literally did. not. give. a. single. fuck. #missTSLdaysT_T
Guy who probably plays games more than he socializes + a bunch of other very, very similar guys baiting him ONLINE = ???
Kicking him seems like a little much. Especially if they aren't going to do poop to minigun (instigating all this useless drama) and iaguz (Seriously? Professional gamer calling someone a cunt on twitter is acceptable now?)
Nooooooooooooooooope. There is a huge difference between what Ruff did and telling someone to go die of aids, cancer or insulting someones dead mother. YOU DIDN'T KNOW. You were not sincere. You didn't say that to personally hurt them, you didn't have that information available to you, you said it to make yourself feel better and vent anger. What Ruff said was barbed, it was specifically done with full knowledge of the person, it was designed to be as hurtful and offensive as possible to a single individual. It's the difference between taking a gun and firing it indiscriminately into the air in a populated area and taking a knife, hunting down a single person and stabbing them in the back. As clunky an analogy as that is, one is a reckless, stupid act that has the chance of hurting someone and the other is an assassination. He knew exactly what he was saying, he used knowledge of someone to exploit their vulnerability for no other reason than to make them feel bad, ergo he's a piece of shit.
Seriously? Professional gamer calling someone a cunt on twitter is acceptable now?
Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
This isn't necessarily a video game issue but it is an esports management issue and the fact that TB runs a team makes him more qualified than most people to talk about the management of an esports team
I guess esports issues pretty much equals video game issues by default but you get the point
For you people who are saying the punishment is really rough, you obviously don't play the GM NA ladder. Ruff is a toxic player and has been for quite some time now. I've been harassed by not only him but his stream followers as well just for beating him, he is just a toxic person to be around with and have in the community.
P.S Although last week I ran into him on ladder and he seemed alot more relaxed and actually said "Gg" instead of just leaving. It almost made me wonder if it was the real Ruff or not?
While I was guilty of insulting my opponents out of frustrations many times on the ladder aswell, being drastic towards these actions is beneficial to the community. Everybody who make mistakes deserve to learn the harsh lesson for their own good.
I believe though that the aspect of people wanting to pitchfork and harshly condemn everything outside their little "how it should be" reality is far scarier and violent than the act itself. In fact they operate under the same state of mind: things do not go the way I want --> I get as angry as I can to cause repercussions on other people so I can feel relevant again
And sure nobody deserves to be insulted randomly just because of a Starcraft game, but I also know I'd rather have people being complete douchebags and tell me all the insults in the world than everybody acting nice but I can't possibly know how they really feel about me. In the first case you realize there are problems and, in case you want, you can try to fix them. In the second case everybody is acting the same and it becomes really hard to trust people.
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
On December 17 2013 08:55 IcedBacon wrote: Yeah... can't wait for bitcoins to crash :p
"Can't wait for this prizepool and event to be ruined, presumably because I'm a terrible person"
Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
On June 16 2014 09:26 aTnClouD wrote: While I was guilty of insulting my opponents out of frustrations many times on the ladder aswell, being drastic towards these actions is beneficial to the community. Everybody who make mistakes deserve to learn the harsh lesson for their own good.
I believe though that the aspect of people wanting to pitchfork and harshly condemn everything outside their little "how it should be" reality is far scarier and violent than the act itself. In fact they operate under the same state of mind: things do not go the way I want --> I get as angry as I can to cause repercussions on other people so I can feel relevant again
And sure nobody deserves to be insulted randomly just because of a Starcraft game, but I also know I'd rather have people being complete douchebags and tell me all the insults in the world than everybody acting nice but I can't possibly know how they really feel about me. In the first case you realize there are problems and, in case you want, you can try to fix them. In the second case everybody is acting the same and it becomes really hard to trust people.
No one is saying that everyone who BMs on ladder should be burned at the stake, but this one in particular was a targeted jab at someone going through a very difficult time right now. It crossed a line.
People in this thread are talking like it's the first time Ruff has said something fucking despicable to someone while laddering on NA. I thought he never got in shit because no one gave a fuck, but I guess it was just because he usually just said shit to no namers or kept it tame with trivial stuff like death wishes.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Off topic for a second: I know it's an SC forum and TB is a team leader and all but does anyone else just find it weird that these people going him was the exact reason he left Reddit?
Anyway back on topic: Comparing Ruff to these other examples as I said is apples and oranges, one is said in anger without knowledge, one is said in anger with full knowledge. Like I said it'd be something along the line of making fun of TB
Oh and yeah, as an Aussie we do call people cunts a lot. Even our friends (IE: "Showstealer! How you doing ya old cunt?")
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Of course your opinion is more valuable, since you have the authority of experience and knowledge behind it. However, that's different from how you project that opinion. You can either choose to share your increased knowledge or flaunt it.
A patient walks into a doctor's office with a rough idea on a treatment regiment, with only shreds of substantiating evidence. The doctor immediately recognizes (like you) that they, with the experience of medical school and running their own clinic, have a more effective treatment to offer. Now, you can choose to A) offer your opinion and explain why it might be more appropriate than their previous choice, sharing your experience and knowledge with them or B) berate them for lacking the experience you possess, how dare they step into your presence without having first attended medical school and offer an opinion that is different than yours. How adorable. But seriously, they ought to shut their mouth and sit in raptured silence in expectation of the knowledge you can bestow upon them purely through your wondrous generosity.
You could call the first experience a conversation. The second would just be an interaction with an educated albeit rude and arrogant individual. That doctor might be a professional by name and title but not by character. Someone who has sat through several interactions of the latter nature might try to avoid them in the future by walking away before they start. I thought that's what Longshot was trying to do. But then you goaded him by calling him a baby throwing a tantrum.
I don't want to offend you, you're much more of an authority here than I am and I respect that. But maybe you don't have to immediately call his opinion invalid and verbally abuse him. If you shared why you don't think 1 month suspension is appropriate, he can take the knowledge (which makes everyone else reading the forum smarter) or leave it. I think even if you were to write as though your opinion is only as valuable as anyone else's, viewers will recognize the truth and sensibility behind your statements because duh, you're TotalBiscuit.
On a (hopefully) lighter note: What the hell kind of an insult is "sick boy"? How is that even supposed to be used in any kind of context other than stating a fact? Yes, Chad is male, and he recently dealt with a medical issue. You wouldn't use the phrase "sick boy" for insulting a stranger, you wouldn't use it while ribbing someone you know. It's just a weird choice of wording in the first place.
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
On December 17 2013 08:55 IcedBacon wrote: Yeah... can't wait for bitcoins to crash :p
"Can't wait for this prizepool and event to be ruined, presumably because I'm a terrible person"
Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
On June 16 2014 09:34 dsousa wrote: The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
SC2 is wasting its energy with this nonsense.
Yeah words don't hurt anyone. HOWEVER, this person is trying to be a professional gamer and represent his team/sponsors. Therefore, being a dick (even with just words) can't be tolerated especially from a team/sponsor perspective because they don't want this person representing them. Also anyone who wants SC2 to grow into something more professional doesn't want this representing them. Also if I were a team owner I wouldn't want a player only team who acted like this
On June 16 2014 09:44 Circumstance wrote: On a (hopefully) lighter note: What the hell kind of an insult is "sick boy"? How is that even supposed to be used in any kind of context other than stating a fact? Yes, Chad is male, and he recently dealt with a medical issue. You wouldn't use the phrase "sick boy" for insulting a stranger, you wouldn't use it while ribbing someone you know. It's just a weird choice of wording in the first place.
That's true it is atypical. However it's perfectly tailored to insult Minigun because he is suffering from a disease. It may be factual but it is a really shitty thing to say to him in this instance
On June 16 2014 09:34 dsousa wrote: The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
SC2 is wasting its energy with this nonsense.
My fucking god, if your dog just died and someone in an sc2 game knew this and said "haha im glad your dog died", it would obviously make you think about your dog who just died and it would fucking hurt, whether you would want to let it hurt or not. Sometimes I wonder if people actually think about what they're posting before they post it. That example is far worse than calling someone a cunt or a fucker or whatever because it's not venting and you know you're hurting the person if you say it. In the OP case Minigun was in a life threatening situation, not his dog, not his friend, HIM. So ya, he only posted words, the words weren't the issue, the intent behind the words is the issue.
On June 16 2014 08:33 Peters821 wrote: I agree what Ruff said was wrong, but one must look at the context of everything. I have watched Ruff's stream for about 2 years now. I probably watch his stream more than anyone.
Root players have been sniping him in the last 2 months. Not only sniping, but they have came into his chat and bm him. They have said things that have crossed the line. Was anything done? This is why I don't respect Root players. I have seen Root players like fayth, drewbie, caliber all guilty of that. There are probably more Root players but I can't recall the names at this time. They made it obvious they were sniping him as they were in the chat while playing Ruff. In addition, if you look at caliber's match history, 60-70% of his games were against Ruff.
I don't agree with IVD's punishment. I am assuming they watch Ruff's stream. If they did, they would understand the events that pushed Ruff to lash out. The punishment is way too severe. I think a 30 day suspension would be more appropriate. I hope IVD will reconsider. Root players should be punished as well for their actions.
Yeah, Root players are known to harass known North Americans online such as personalities such as Ruff or cyber bully Avilo on a weekly basis. Still does not give Ruff the right. I mean we have multiple people on TL and in the scene with cancer and other terrible diseases that Ruff knows fully about, he deserved to be kicked.
If Ruff was being harassed, there are more mature ways to handle it.
On June 16 2014 09:34 dsousa wrote: The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
SC2 is wasting its energy with this nonsense.
My fucking god, if your dog just died and someone in an sc2 game knew this and said "haha im glad your dog died", it would obviously make you think about your dog who just died and it would fucking hurt, whether you would want to let it hurt or not. Sometimes I wonder if people actually think about what they're posting before they post it. That example is far worse than calling someone a cunt or a fucker or whatever because it's not venting and you know you're hurting the person if you say it. In the OP case Minigun was in a life threatening situation, not his dog, not his friend, HIM. So ya, he only posted words, the words weren't the issue, the intent behind the words is the issue.
No no you don't understand. See, feelings no real. Also everyone is immune to anything said on the internet, it is literally impossible for someone to hurt you emotionally online.
Oh to have the invincible adamantium armour that these people supposedly have when it comes to their emotions. I guess the mistaken idea that words can't hurt someone comes from either a place of ignorance or insincerity. I wonder if these people have ever been bullied before. Most bullying isn't physical, it's emotional and it's very real. Feel free to tell the millions of bullied children that their feelings aren't real and that words can't hurt them. It's a fucking myth buried in obsolete understanding and societal norms.
On June 16 2014 09:44 Circumstance wrote: On a (hopefully) lighter note: What the hell kind of an insult is "sick boy"? How is that even supposed to be used in any kind of context other than stating a fact? Yes, Chad is male, and he recently dealt with a medical issue. You wouldn't use the phrase "sick boy" for insulting a stranger, you wouldn't use it while ribbing someone you know. It's just a weird choice of wording in the first place.
Well the thing is abusing facts to hurt people is the most effective way and is actually worse than curse words. You can't shrug off sick boy if you are sick and suffering. It's just an extremely mean thing to say even though the words itself arent per se. And then he also added the part about begging for money which is totally untrue.
On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote: Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt".
Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read..
On June 16 2014 08:33 Peters821 wrote: I agree what Ruff said was wrong, but one must look at the context of everything. I have watched Ruff's stream for about 2 years now. I probably watch his stream more than anyone.
Root players have been sniping him in the last 2 months. Not only sniping, but they have came into his chat and bm him. They have said things that have crossed the line. Was anything done? This is why I don't respect Root players. I have seen Root players like fayth, drewbie, caliber all guilty of that. There are probably more Root players but I can't recall the names at this time. They made it obvious they were sniping him as they were in the chat while playing Ruff. In addition, if you look at caliber's match history, 60-70% of his games were against Ruff.
I don't agree with IVD's punishment. I am assuming they watch Ruff's stream. If they did, they would understand the events that pushed Ruff to lash out. The punishment is way too severe. I think a 30 day suspension would be more appropriate. I hope IVD will reconsider. Root players should be punished as well for their actions.
Yeah, Root players are known to harass known North Americans online such as personalities such as Ruff or cyber bully Avilo on a weekly basis. Still does not give Ruff the right. I mean we have multiple people on TL and in the scene with cancer and other terrible diseases that Ruff knows fully about, he deserved to be kicked.
Dude seriously you are wrong in the statement - Root are known to harass ..."online personalities" I disagree with this. Most root members in general are cool to anyone who is nice.
The verbal harassment done by avilo and ruff to the root players is ridiculous. Why do you expect root to be nice back to trolls? #TwitchChatCancer They say as much as they can just to try and get a response and a little attention. The fact that they lie and are aggressive doesn't legitimize their actions. You are just wrong in making a general statement like that.
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
On December 19 2013 12:48 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 19 2013 11:54 GraFx wrote: this is the first piece youve written that didnt make me hate you. kudos.
If it makes you feel any better about that I think you're a little shit :x
On December 17 2013 09:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 17 2013 08:55 IcedBacon wrote: Yeah... can't wait for bitcoins to crash :p
"Can't wait for this prizepool and event to be ruined, presumably because I'm a terrible person"
Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
If you are the authority on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. You embellished your perspective so hard in saying "One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult." So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
On December 19 2013 12:48 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 19 2013 11:54 GraFx wrote: this is the first piece youve written that didnt make me hate you. kudos.
If it makes you feel any better about that I think you're a little shit :x
On December 17 2013 09:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 17 2013 08:55 IcedBacon wrote: Yeah... can't wait for bitcoins to crash :p
"Can't wait for this prizepool and event to be ruined, presumably because I'm a terrible person"
Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
If you are the judge on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
Nice attempt to dodge the debunk of your supposed "evidence". Glad to see you bailed on it quickly though, trying to argue that you somehow proved that I go around attacking people with those quotes would have been a waste of everyones time.
See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other. Literally everything I say online has some sort of consequence, I'm still getting shit on for dumb things I said 7 years ago. I've quite literally received death-threats for confusing an 8-bit pixel art characters gender. So don't talk to me about higher standard of conduct. My higher standard of conduct is trying to bring some common sense into the discussion, sharing my experience when it's relevant and not mocking people who have chronic diseases. That and not attacking people unprovoked. Higher standards does not give you carte blanche to go after me with your insults and attacks and then have you retreat to some imagined refuge when you get bitten back for doing so. You will not get a "Thank you for your feedback" message from me, I'm not customer service and you're not a customer, I don't have to put up with your shit, thank god.
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
On December 19 2013 12:48 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 19 2013 11:54 GraFx wrote: this is the first piece youve written that didnt make me hate you. kudos.
If it makes you feel any better about that I think you're a little shit :x
On December 17 2013 09:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 17 2013 08:55 IcedBacon wrote: Yeah... can't wait for bitcoins to crash :p
"Can't wait for this prizepool and event to be ruined, presumably because I'm a terrible person"
Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
If you are the judge on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
Nice attempt to dodge the debunk of your supposed "evidence". Glad to see you bailed on it quickly though, trying to argue that you somehow proved that I go around attacking people with those quotes would have been a waste of everyones time.
See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other. Literally everything I say online has some sort of consequence, I'm still getting shit on for dumb things I said 7 years ago. I've quite literally received death-threats for confusing an 8-bit pixel art characters gender. So don't talk to me about higher standard of conduct. My higher standard of conduct is trying to bring some common sense into the discussion, sharing my experience when it's relevant and not mocking people who have chronic diseases. That and not attacking people unprovoked. Higher standards does not give you carte blanche to go after me with your insults and attacks and then have you retreat to some imagined refuge when you get bitten back for doing so. You will not get a "Thank you for your feedback" message from me, I'm not customer service and you're not a customer, I don't have to put up with your shit, thank god.
What dodge? I said you embellished. That seemed pretty direct. More delusions
P.S. "See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other." You misunderstand this concept.
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
On December 19 2013 12:48 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 19 2013 11:54 GraFx wrote: this is the first piece youve written that didnt make me hate you. kudos.
If it makes you feel any better about that I think you're a little shit :x
On December 17 2013 09:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 17 2013 08:55 IcedBacon wrote: Yeah... can't wait for bitcoins to crash :p
"Can't wait for this prizepool and event to be ruined, presumably because I'm a terrible person"
Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
If you are the judge on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
Nice attempt to dodge the debunk of your supposed "evidence". Glad to see you bailed on it quickly though, trying to argue that you somehow proved that I go around attacking people with those quotes would have been a waste of everyones time.
See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other. Literally everything I say online has some sort of consequence, I'm still getting shit on for dumb things I said 7 years ago. I've quite literally received death-threats for confusing an 8-bit pixel art characters gender. So don't talk to me about higher standard of conduct. My higher standard of conduct is trying to bring some common sense into the discussion, sharing my experience when it's relevant and not mocking people who have chronic diseases. That and not attacking people unprovoked. Higher standards does not give you carte blanche to go after me with your insults and attacks and then have you retreat to some imagined refuge when you get bitten back for doing so. You will not get a "Thank you for your feedback" message from me, I'm not customer service and you're not a customer, I don't have to put up with your shit, thank god.
What dodge? I said you embellished. That seemed pretty direct. More delusions
And now you dodge the rest of the post.
I said you embellished.
Well that and you called me a lying, delusional wannabe martyr, or had you forgotten that? I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!).
You misunderstand this concept.
I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence. How easy it is to tell someone they should act to a higher standard when you don't have to do it yourself. Armchair morality at its finest. You have misunderstood the concept of the moral highground, something you cease to hold when you decide to call people lying, delusional wannabe martyrs while simultaneously trying to lecture them on how they should treat others. You've done a fantastic job of proving my point that my posts are in response to attacks.
I think we're about done here. There's little value to be extracted from this discussion anymore, or at least none that's worth the effort.
I fail to see what's there to misunderstand. People still bring up that tweet every time TB has a post in a thread like this, hell everyone except TB look at the SC reddit, there's about 100 comments about the same damn thing because of his tweet earlier today banning Ruff from Clan Wars
On June 16 2014 10:26 showstealer1829 wrote: I fail to see what's there to misunderstand. People still bring up that tweet every time TB has a post in a thread like this, hell everyone except TB look at the SC reddit, there's about 100 comments about the same damn thing because of his tweet earlier today banning Ruff from Clan Wars
The community as a whole gets exactly what it deserves. It wants to be hyper-critical towards its pros/personalities, live and breath drama? Take great delight in tearing people down? Well then the only people that leaves are players and personalities who have had to adapt to that and harden against peoples constant negativity. The number of pros and personalities still posting here and on Reddit is a tiny fraction of the guys who are still around, most gave up because it wasn't worth it anymore. I wish I could quit them too, I'd be a lot happier.
On June 16 2014 08:33 Peters821 wrote: I agree what Ruff said was wrong, but one must look at the context of everything. I have watched Ruff's stream for about 2 years now. I probably watch his stream more than anyone.
Root players have been sniping him in the last 2 months. Not only sniping, but they have came into his chat and bm him. They have said things that have crossed the line. Was anything done? This is why I don't respect Root players. I have seen Root players like fayth, drewbie, caliber all guilty of that. There are probably more Root players but I can't recall the names at this time. They made it obvious they were sniping him as they were in the chat while playing Ruff. In addition, if you look at caliber's match history, 60-70% of his games were against Ruff.
I don't agree with IVD's punishment. I am assuming they watch Ruff's stream. If they did, they would understand the events that pushed Ruff to lash out. The punishment is way too severe. I think a 30 day suspension would be more appropriate. I hope IVD will reconsider. Root players should be punished as well for their actions.
Yeah, Root players are known to harass known North Americans online such as personalities such as Ruff or cyber bully Avilo on a weekly basis. Still does not give Ruff the right. I mean we have multiple people on TL and in the scene with cancer and other terrible diseases that Ruff knows fully about, he deserved to be kicked.
Dude seriously you are wrong in the statement - Root are known to harass ..."online personalities" I disagree with this. Most root members in general are cool to anyone who is nice.
The verbal harassment done by avilo and ruff to the root players is ridiculous. Why do you expect root to be nice back to trolls? #TwitchChatCancer They say as much as they can just to try and get a response and a little attention. The fact that they lie and are aggressive doesn't legitimize their actions. You are just wrong in making a general statement like that.
Avilo does not harass people, snipe people. He balances whines about a game big deal, it hurts no one. Root takes things to far, they enjoy harassing these types of people. It's wrong. They will sit there harass him on twitter, snipe him for his entire stream session, and harass his chat on a almost weekly basis.
Root been known to do this since back in 2011 vs tons of players on NA. It's not exactly a secret. Still does not give ruff the right to say what he said though.
On June 16 2014 08:33 Peters821 wrote: I agree what Ruff said was wrong, but one must look at the context of everything. I have watched Ruff's stream for about 2 years now. I probably watch his stream more than anyone.
Root players have been sniping him in the last 2 months. Not only sniping, but they have came into his chat and bm him. They have said things that have crossed the line. Was anything done? This is why I don't respect Root players. I have seen Root players like fayth, drewbie, caliber all guilty of that. There are probably more Root players but I can't recall the names at this time. They made it obvious they were sniping him as they were in the chat while playing Ruff. In addition, if you look at caliber's match history, 60-70% of his games were against Ruff.
I don't agree with IVD's punishment. I am assuming they watch Ruff's stream. If they did, they would understand the events that pushed Ruff to lash out. The punishment is way too severe. I think a 30 day suspension would be more appropriate. I hope IVD will reconsider. Root players should be punished as well for their actions.
Yeah, Root players are known to harass known North Americans online such as personalities such as Ruff or cyber bully Avilo on a weekly basis. Still does not give Ruff the right. I mean we have multiple people on TL and in the scene with cancer and other terrible diseases that Ruff knows fully about, he deserved to be kicked.
Dude seriously you are wrong in the statement - Root are known to harass ..."online personalities" I disagree with this. Most root members in general are cool to anyone who is nice.
The verbal harassment done by avilo and ruff to the root players is ridiculous. Why do you expect root to be nice back to trolls? #TwitchChatCancer They say as much as they can just to try and get a response and a little attention. The fact that they lie and are aggressive doesn't legitimize their actions. You are just wrong in making a general statement like that.
Avilo does not harass people, snipe people. He balances whines about a game big deal, it hurts no one. Root takes things to far, they enjoy harassing these types of people. It's wrong. They will sit there harass him on twitter, snipe him for his entire stream session, and harass his chat on a almost weekly basis.
Root been known to do this since back in 2011 vs tons of players on NA. It's not exactly a secret. Still does not give ruff the right to say what he said though.
Avilo is a constant torrent of public negativity towards SC2 and none of it is constructive. I guess it is fortunate that he isn't known for publicly BMing people otherwise he'd be the perfect little ball of angst. If I actually followed Avilo I'd probably believe that SC2 was the most unbalanced shitty game in existence and not want to be involved in it. If you need any proof of that, you can have a look at his Twitter feed, where he is currently trying to get people to stop watching Dreamhack so that Blizzard will fix the game. It's fortunate that he doesn't have much influence, since he is at the moment the literal embodiment of "killing ESPORTS"
On June 16 2014 10:26 showstealer1829 wrote: I fail to see what's there to misunderstand. People still bring up that tweet every time TB has a post in a thread like this, hell everyone except TB look at the SC reddit, there's about 100 comments about the same damn thing because of his tweet earlier today banning Ruff from Clan Wars
The community as a whole gets exactly what it deserves. It wants to be hyper-critical towards its pros/personalities, live and breath drama? Take great delight in tearing people down? Well then the only people that leaves are players and personalities who have had to adapt to that and harden against peoples constant negativity. The number of pros and personalities still posting here and on Reddit is a tiny fraction of the guys who are still around, most gave up because it wasn't worth it anymore. I wish I could quit them too, I'd be a lot happier.
It's true of any community though, I believe the phase I'm looking for is "Tall Poppy Syndrome", the vocal minority who can't help wanting to tear the same people they built up because suddenly they're "mainstream" and thus not "cool" any more.
And yet if you ask them, they'll still say they "like" the person, but he's just an asshole now. Happened with Metallica, happened with Nigel Mansell, is happening with Lewis Hamilton, hell Gary Lineker took off to Japan cause he couldn't take it any more (I am aware I'm showing my age here). Because "it should've been me. oh don't worry that I neither have the talent, determination or drive to actually bring myself up to that level. It still should've been me".
On June 16 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: You heard it here first guys, "Narcissism" = knowing more than somebody else.
All those narcissistic doctors, lawyers, plumbers, car mechanics... how dare they be more knowledgeable in a field than someone else and how dare their opinion carry more weight.
Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
On December 19 2013 12:48 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 19 2013 11:54 GraFx wrote: this is the first piece youve written that didnt make me hate you. kudos.
If it makes you feel any better about that I think you're a little shit :x
On December 17 2013 09:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 17 2013 08:55 IcedBacon wrote: Yeah... can't wait for bitcoins to crash :p
"Can't wait for this prizepool and event to be ruined, presumably because I'm a terrible person"
Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
If you are the judge on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
Nice attempt to dodge the debunk of your supposed "evidence". Glad to see you bailed on it quickly though, trying to argue that you somehow proved that I go around attacking people with those quotes would have been a waste of everyones time.
See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other. Literally everything I say online has some sort of consequence, I'm still getting shit on for dumb things I said 7 years ago. I've quite literally received death-threats for confusing an 8-bit pixel art characters gender. So don't talk to me about higher standard of conduct. My higher standard of conduct is trying to bring some common sense into the discussion, sharing my experience when it's relevant and not mocking people who have chronic diseases. That and not attacking people unprovoked. Higher standards does not give you carte blanche to go after me with your insults and attacks and then have you retreat to some imagined refuge when you get bitten back for doing so. You will not get a "Thank you for your feedback" message from me, I'm not customer service and you're not a customer, I don't have to put up with your shit, thank god.
What dodge? I said you embellished. That seemed pretty direct. More delusions
Well that and you called me a lying, delusional wannabe martyr, or had you forgotten that? I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!).
I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence. How easy it is to tell someone they should act to a higher standard when you don't have to do it yourself. Armchair morality at its finest. You have misunderstood the concept of the moral highground, something you cease to hold when you decide to call people lying, delusional wannabe martyrs while simultaneously trying to lecture them on how they should treat others. You've done a fantastic job of proving my point that my posts are in response to attacks.
I think we're about done here. There's little value to be extracted from this discussion anymore, or at least none that's worth the effort.
You accuse me of dodging again... but then say "we're done here." Neat trick. You want to talk about dodging? Read your own statement.. "I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence......................." Nice change topic.
"I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!). " My argument is that your perspective is unnecessarily combative. You jump at the first opportunity to start flame wars with people. The last few pages of this thread should be evidence enough of that, but I'm sure you'll say it was everyone's fault except yours.
On June 16 2014 08:23 VasHeR wrote: [quote] Narcissism = comparing urself to doctors and lawyers while you're bashing random people on the internet. Can you stop having flame wars in every single TL thread u post in? In your expert opinion, is it really appropriate to keep doing that?
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
On December 19 2013 12:48 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 19 2013 11:54 GraFx wrote: this is the first piece youve written that didnt make me hate you. kudos.
If it makes you feel any better about that I think you're a little shit :x
On December 17 2013 09:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 17 2013 08:55 IcedBacon wrote: Yeah... can't wait for bitcoins to crash :p
"Can't wait for this prizepool and event to be ruined, presumably because I'm a terrible person"
Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
If you are the judge on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
Nice attempt to dodge the debunk of your supposed "evidence". Glad to see you bailed on it quickly though, trying to argue that you somehow proved that I go around attacking people with those quotes would have been a waste of everyones time.
See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other. Literally everything I say online has some sort of consequence, I'm still getting shit on for dumb things I said 7 years ago. I've quite literally received death-threats for confusing an 8-bit pixel art characters gender. So don't talk to me about higher standard of conduct. My higher standard of conduct is trying to bring some common sense into the discussion, sharing my experience when it's relevant and not mocking people who have chronic diseases. That and not attacking people unprovoked. Higher standards does not give you carte blanche to go after me with your insults and attacks and then have you retreat to some imagined refuge when you get bitten back for doing so. You will not get a "Thank you for your feedback" message from me, I'm not customer service and you're not a customer, I don't have to put up with your shit, thank god.
What dodge? I said you embellished. That seemed pretty direct. More delusions
And now you dodge the rest of the post.
I said you embellished.
Well that and you called me a lying, delusional wannabe martyr, or had you forgotten that? I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!).
You misunderstand this concept.
I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence. How easy it is to tell someone they should act to a higher standard when you don't have to do it yourself. Armchair morality at its finest. You have misunderstood the concept of the moral highground, something you cease to hold when you decide to call people lying, delusional wannabe martyrs while simultaneously trying to lecture them on how they should treat others. You've done a fantastic job of proving my point that my posts are in response to attacks.
I think we're about done here. There's little value to be extracted from this discussion anymore, or at least none that's worth the effort.
You accuse me of dodging again... but then say "we're done here." Neat trick. You want to talk about dodging? Read your own statement.. "I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence......................." Nice change topic.
"I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!). " My argument is that your perspective is unnecessarily combative. You jump at the first opportunity to start flame wars with people. The last few pages of this thread should be evidence enough of that, but I'm sure you'll say it was everyone's fault except yours.
Alright, we've got to the "I know you are but what am I?" stage of this discussion. It was definitely very amusing to read your posts, particularly when you think you have the moral authority to lecture people on how they should be responding, after opening up with the statement "lying delusional wannabe martyr". Unfortunately it seems you don't have anything new to say so yeah, I will go on believing that it was actually your fault, since you were the one who attacked me in the first place and that's clear to see to anyone reading this.
On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote: Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt".
Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read..
Was going to say this but he beat me to it. TB no one with a brain is going to dispute that you know what you're talking about when it comes to video games. It's just the way you go about attacking anyone who disagrees with you that comes across as really nasty/arrogant.
Just because you've had a successful career in the field of video games that doesn't mean your opinion on non-game related subjects is any more or less 'valuable'.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
On December 19 2013 12:48 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 19 2013 11:54 GraFx wrote: this is the first piece youve written that didnt make me hate you. kudos.
If it makes you feel any better about that I think you're a little shit :x
On December 17 2013 09:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On December 17 2013 08:55 IcedBacon wrote: Yeah... can't wait for bitcoins to crash :p
"Can't wait for this prizepool and event to be ruined, presumably because I'm a terrible person"
Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
If you are the judge on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
Nice attempt to dodge the debunk of your supposed "evidence". Glad to see you bailed on it quickly though, trying to argue that you somehow proved that I go around attacking people with those quotes would have been a waste of everyones time.
See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other. Literally everything I say online has some sort of consequence, I'm still getting shit on for dumb things I said 7 years ago. I've quite literally received death-threats for confusing an 8-bit pixel art characters gender. So don't talk to me about higher standard of conduct. My higher standard of conduct is trying to bring some common sense into the discussion, sharing my experience when it's relevant and not mocking people who have chronic diseases. That and not attacking people unprovoked. Higher standards does not give you carte blanche to go after me with your insults and attacks and then have you retreat to some imagined refuge when you get bitten back for doing so. You will not get a "Thank you for your feedback" message from me, I'm not customer service and you're not a customer, I don't have to put up with your shit, thank god.
What dodge? I said you embellished. That seemed pretty direct. More delusions
And now you dodge the rest of the post.
I said you embellished.
Well that and you called me a lying, delusional wannabe martyr, or had you forgotten that? I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!).
You misunderstand this concept.
I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence. How easy it is to tell someone they should act to a higher standard when you don't have to do it yourself. Armchair morality at its finest. You have misunderstood the concept of the moral highground, something you cease to hold when you decide to call people lying, delusional wannabe martyrs while simultaneously trying to lecture them on how they should treat others. You've done a fantastic job of proving my point that my posts are in response to attacks.
I think we're about done here. There's little value to be extracted from this discussion anymore, or at least none that's worth the effort.
You accuse me of dodging again... but then say "we're done here." Neat trick. You want to talk about dodging? Read your own statement.. "I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence......................." Nice change topic.
"I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!). " My argument is that your perspective is unnecessarily combative. You jump at the first opportunity to start flame wars with people. The last few pages of this thread should be evidence enough of that, but I'm sure you'll say it was everyone's fault except yours.
Alright, we've got to the "I know you are but what am I?" stage of this discussion. It was definitely very amusing to read your posts, particularly when you think you have the moral authority to lecture people on how they should be responding, after opening up with the statement "lying delusional wannabe martyr". Unfortunately it seems you don't have anything new to say so yeah, I will go on believing that it was actually your fault, since you were the one who attacked me in the first place and that's clear to see to anyone reading this.
Best Regards.
For some reason, I read everything you post with an English accent in my head, which makes it way better. Vasher is just one of those weirdos who thinks that everyone who disagrees with them is living a fantasy world.
But we are talking about game related subjects, so that's irrelevant.
Maybe if people didn't want flamewars they shouldn't be hurling insults at me whenever they get the chance *shrug*. You mistake attacking people for defense, I don't go out of my way to attack people, they start shit with me and then they complain that I respond in kind. "Oh, I called that guy an arrogant hypocritical narcissist and now he doesn't seem to want to treat me with respect, I wonder how that happened?". Well gee I dunno, maybe some of the armchair psychologists in this thread could tell you.
Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
On December 19 2013 12:48 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
If it makes you feel any better about that I think you're a little shit :x
On December 17 2013 09:09 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
"Can't wait for this prizepool and event to be ruined, presumably because I'm a terrible person"
Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
If you are the judge on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
Nice attempt to dodge the debunk of your supposed "evidence". Glad to see you bailed on it quickly though, trying to argue that you somehow proved that I go around attacking people with those quotes would have been a waste of everyones time.
See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other. Literally everything I say online has some sort of consequence, I'm still getting shit on for dumb things I said 7 years ago. I've quite literally received death-threats for confusing an 8-bit pixel art characters gender. So don't talk to me about higher standard of conduct. My higher standard of conduct is trying to bring some common sense into the discussion, sharing my experience when it's relevant and not mocking people who have chronic diseases. That and not attacking people unprovoked. Higher standards does not give you carte blanche to go after me with your insults and attacks and then have you retreat to some imagined refuge when you get bitten back for doing so. You will not get a "Thank you for your feedback" message from me, I'm not customer service and you're not a customer, I don't have to put up with your shit, thank god.
What dodge? I said you embellished. That seemed pretty direct. More delusions
And now you dodge the rest of the post.
I said you embellished.
Well that and you called me a lying, delusional wannabe martyr, or had you forgotten that? I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!).
You misunderstand this concept.
I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence. How easy it is to tell someone they should act to a higher standard when you don't have to do it yourself. Armchair morality at its finest. You have misunderstood the concept of the moral highground, something you cease to hold when you decide to call people lying, delusional wannabe martyrs while simultaneously trying to lecture them on how they should treat others. You've done a fantastic job of proving my point that my posts are in response to attacks.
I think we're about done here. There's little value to be extracted from this discussion anymore, or at least none that's worth the effort.
You accuse me of dodging again... but then say "we're done here." Neat trick. You want to talk about dodging? Read your own statement.. "I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence......................." Nice change topic.
"I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!). " My argument is that your perspective is unnecessarily combative. You jump at the first opportunity to start flame wars with people. The last few pages of this thread should be evidence enough of that, but I'm sure you'll say it was everyone's fault except yours.
Alright, we've got to the "I know you are but what am I?" stage of this discussion. It was definitely very amusing to read your posts, particularly when you think you have the moral authority to lecture people on how they should be responding, after opening up with the statement "lying delusional wannabe martyr". Unfortunately it seems you don't have anything new to say so yeah, I will go on believing that it was actually your fault, since you were the one who attacked me in the first place and that's clear to see to anyone reading this.
Best Regards.
For some reason, I read everything you post with an English accent in my head, which makes it way better. Vasher is just one of those weirdos who thinks that everyone who disagrees with them is living a fantasy world.
And I do, and it has unicorns.
I guess you have to maintain a strong sense of cognitive dissonance when you spend pages trying to lecture someone on how to treat others in threads after trying to dig up 6+ month old quotes to support your argument and opening with "lying, delusional wannabe martyr". It's to be expected.
On June 16 2014 09:27 VasHeR wrote: [quote] Not sure if lying or delusional. What a wannabe martyr. Took about 2 seconds to find something worth discrediting your claim here.
[quote] [quote] Nice *defense*
Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples. Is this not obvious, oh wise one?
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
The problem I have with this is that there is no measure to what "words" are hurtful enough to warrant punishment.
This person hurt another persons feelings, but he didn't swear, he didn't break any rules, he just attacked a popular player. If what he said was 50% as offensive would he be banned? 80%? Where is the threshhold? Its an arbitrary punishment for an arbitrary crime.
So while I love Minigun, and never heard of Ruff, I'm overall against the idea of a witch hunt over words conveyed via the internet.
Its just words.
Keystrokes cannot hurt me, and IMHO you're wasting your energy if you let them effect you.
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
If you are the judge on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
Nice attempt to dodge the debunk of your supposed "evidence". Glad to see you bailed on it quickly though, trying to argue that you somehow proved that I go around attacking people with those quotes would have been a waste of everyones time.
See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other. Literally everything I say online has some sort of consequence, I'm still getting shit on for dumb things I said 7 years ago. I've quite literally received death-threats for confusing an 8-bit pixel art characters gender. So don't talk to me about higher standard of conduct. My higher standard of conduct is trying to bring some common sense into the discussion, sharing my experience when it's relevant and not mocking people who have chronic diseases. That and not attacking people unprovoked. Higher standards does not give you carte blanche to go after me with your insults and attacks and then have you retreat to some imagined refuge when you get bitten back for doing so. You will not get a "Thank you for your feedback" message from me, I'm not customer service and you're not a customer, I don't have to put up with your shit, thank god.
What dodge? I said you embellished. That seemed pretty direct. More delusions
And now you dodge the rest of the post.
I said you embellished.
Well that and you called me a lying, delusional wannabe martyr, or had you forgotten that? I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!).
You misunderstand this concept.
I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence. How easy it is to tell someone they should act to a higher standard when you don't have to do it yourself. Armchair morality at its finest. You have misunderstood the concept of the moral highground, something you cease to hold when you decide to call people lying, delusional wannabe martyrs while simultaneously trying to lecture them on how they should treat others. You've done a fantastic job of proving my point that my posts are in response to attacks.
I think we're about done here. There's little value to be extracted from this discussion anymore, or at least none that's worth the effort.
You accuse me of dodging again... but then say "we're done here." Neat trick. You want to talk about dodging? Read your own statement.. "I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence......................." Nice change topic.
"I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!). " My argument is that your perspective is unnecessarily combative. You jump at the first opportunity to start flame wars with people. The last few pages of this thread should be evidence enough of that, but I'm sure you'll say it was everyone's fault except yours.
Alright, we've got to the "I know you are but what am I?" stage of this discussion. It was definitely very amusing to read your posts, particularly when you think you have the moral authority to lecture people on how they should be responding, after opening up with the statement "lying delusional wannabe martyr". Unfortunately it seems you don't have anything new to say so yeah, I will go on believing that it was actually your fault, since you were the one who attacked me in the first place and that's clear to see to anyone reading this.
Best Regards.
For some reason, I read everything you post with an English accent in my head, which makes it way better. Vasher is just one of those weirdos who thinks that everyone who disagrees with them is living a fantasy world.
And I do, and it has unicorns.
I guess you have to maintain a strong sense of cognitive dissonance when you spend pages trying to lecture someone on how to treat others in threads after trying to dig up 6+ month old quotes to support your argument and opening with "lying, delusional wannabe martyr". It's to be expected.
You know, the weird thing is, now that I think about this, it's even stranger for him to call you a "wannabe martyr" when you actually are fighting cancer. Martyrs are like infested terrans blow themselves up, when you're clearly trying to win the fight against cancer.
On a lighter note I kind of want to declare myself TL Forum's Unofficial lying delusional wannabe martyr. It's better than Bronze League Hero at any rate
Nice job linking quotes that supposedly debunk my argument when both of them were attacks. One wished ill on the event, the players and myself by gloating over the possibility of bitcoins crashing, the other said "oh grats, this is the first time I don't hate you", a completely unnecessary and unprovoked insult.
You might wanna try harder if you're looking for evidence that what I say is unprovoked. You might wanna dig even deeper to find a response that is actually offensive and not tongue-in-cheek. The little kissy face not give it away that I wasn't being particularly serious? Do I have to spell it out? Unsurprisingly you are also attacking me, including such choice phrases as "lying" "delusional" and "wannabe martyr". Next time, try coming into a discussion with clean hands.
[quote]
Nobody in their right mind actually believes this. Of course words hurt. Keystrokes can't hurt you? Pretty sure they can, you are simply fortunate enough not to have had to suffer someone going after you in a really personal way. I hope you never do.
If you are the judge on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
Nice attempt to dodge the debunk of your supposed "evidence". Glad to see you bailed on it quickly though, trying to argue that you somehow proved that I go around attacking people with those quotes would have been a waste of everyones time.
See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other. Literally everything I say online has some sort of consequence, I'm still getting shit on for dumb things I said 7 years ago. I've quite literally received death-threats for confusing an 8-bit pixel art characters gender. So don't talk to me about higher standard of conduct. My higher standard of conduct is trying to bring some common sense into the discussion, sharing my experience when it's relevant and not mocking people who have chronic diseases. That and not attacking people unprovoked. Higher standards does not give you carte blanche to go after me with your insults and attacks and then have you retreat to some imagined refuge when you get bitten back for doing so. You will not get a "Thank you for your feedback" message from me, I'm not customer service and you're not a customer, I don't have to put up with your shit, thank god.
What dodge? I said you embellished. That seemed pretty direct. More delusions
And now you dodge the rest of the post.
I said you embellished.
Well that and you called me a lying, delusional wannabe martyr, or had you forgotten that? I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!).
You misunderstand this concept.
I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence. How easy it is to tell someone they should act to a higher standard when you don't have to do it yourself. Armchair morality at its finest. You have misunderstood the concept of the moral highground, something you cease to hold when you decide to call people lying, delusional wannabe martyrs while simultaneously trying to lecture them on how they should treat others. You've done a fantastic job of proving my point that my posts are in response to attacks.
I think we're about done here. There's little value to be extracted from this discussion anymore, or at least none that's worth the effort.
You accuse me of dodging again... but then say "we're done here." Neat trick. You want to talk about dodging? Read your own statement.. "I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence......................." Nice change topic.
"I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!). " My argument is that your perspective is unnecessarily combative. You jump at the first opportunity to start flame wars with people. The last few pages of this thread should be evidence enough of that, but I'm sure you'll say it was everyone's fault except yours.
Alright, we've got to the "I know you are but what am I?" stage of this discussion. It was definitely very amusing to read your posts, particularly when you think you have the moral authority to lecture people on how they should be responding, after opening up with the statement "lying delusional wannabe martyr". Unfortunately it seems you don't have anything new to say so yeah, I will go on believing that it was actually your fault, since you were the one who attacked me in the first place and that's clear to see to anyone reading this.
Best Regards.
For some reason, I read everything you post with an English accent in my head, which makes it way better. Vasher is just one of those weirdos who thinks that everyone who disagrees with them is living a fantasy world.
And I do, and it has unicorns.
I guess you have to maintain a strong sense of cognitive dissonance when you spend pages trying to lecture someone on how to treat others in threads after trying to dig up 6+ month old quotes to support your argument and opening with "lying, delusional wannabe martyr". It's to be expected.
You know, the weird thing is, now that I think about this, it's even stranger for him to call you a "wannabe martyr" when you actually are fighting cancer. Martyrs are like infested terrans blow themselves up, when you're clearly trying to win the fight against cancer.
If I wanted to be a martyr I'd be bringing that up every chance I get. I'd prefer if people didn't.
On June 16 2014 10:10 VasHeR wrote: [quote] If you are the judge on what is "attacking" and what is "defending," then I have no doubt that you will always be 100% right in your own mind. So I guess the answer was delusional. Nice job dodging this part "Also, if you want your opinion to count more because of your position, then you also get held to a higher standard of conduct than random internet peoples." Did it seem irrelevant in this context to you?
Nice attempt to dodge the debunk of your supposed "evidence". Glad to see you bailed on it quickly though, trying to argue that you somehow proved that I go around attacking people with those quotes would have been a waste of everyones time.
See, I already get held to a higher standard of conduct, which is demonstrated by the fact that I can't post in a thread without someone trying to hold me to account for something or other. Literally everything I say online has some sort of consequence, I'm still getting shit on for dumb things I said 7 years ago. I've quite literally received death-threats for confusing an 8-bit pixel art characters gender. So don't talk to me about higher standard of conduct. My higher standard of conduct is trying to bring some common sense into the discussion, sharing my experience when it's relevant and not mocking people who have chronic diseases. That and not attacking people unprovoked. Higher standards does not give you carte blanche to go after me with your insults and attacks and then have you retreat to some imagined refuge when you get bitten back for doing so. You will not get a "Thank you for your feedback" message from me, I'm not customer service and you're not a customer, I don't have to put up with your shit, thank god.
What dodge? I said you embellished. That seemed pretty direct. More delusions
And now you dodge the rest of the post.
I said you embellished.
Well that and you called me a lying, delusional wannabe martyr, or had you forgotten that? I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!).
You misunderstand this concept.
I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence. How easy it is to tell someone they should act to a higher standard when you don't have to do it yourself. Armchair morality at its finest. You have misunderstood the concept of the moral highground, something you cease to hold when you decide to call people lying, delusional wannabe martyrs while simultaneously trying to lecture them on how they should treat others. You've done a fantastic job of proving my point that my posts are in response to attacks.
I think we're about done here. There's little value to be extracted from this discussion anymore, or at least none that's worth the effort.
You accuse me of dodging again... but then say "we're done here." Neat trick. You want to talk about dodging? Read your own statement.. "I understand the concept quite clearly. I also understand it's extremely easy to try and lecture from a place of no consequence......................." Nice change topic.
"I didn't embellish anything, I gave my perspective on things I said (how dare I know my own intent, shameful!). " My argument is that your perspective is unnecessarily combative. You jump at the first opportunity to start flame wars with people. The last few pages of this thread should be evidence enough of that, but I'm sure you'll say it was everyone's fault except yours.
Alright, we've got to the "I know you are but what am I?" stage of this discussion. It was definitely very amusing to read your posts, particularly when you think you have the moral authority to lecture people on how they should be responding, after opening up with the statement "lying delusional wannabe martyr". Unfortunately it seems you don't have anything new to say so yeah, I will go on believing that it was actually your fault, since you were the one who attacked me in the first place and that's clear to see to anyone reading this.
Best Regards.
For some reason, I read everything you post with an English accent in my head, which makes it way better. Vasher is just one of those weirdos who thinks that everyone who disagrees with them is living a fantasy world.
And I do, and it has unicorns.
I guess you have to maintain a strong sense of cognitive dissonance when you spend pages trying to lecture someone on how to treat others in threads after trying to dig up 6+ month old quotes to support your argument and opening with "lying, delusional wannabe martyr". It's to be expected.
You know, the weird thing is, now that I think about this, it's even stranger for him to call you a "wannabe martyr" when you actually are fighting cancer. Martyrs are like infested terrans blow themselves up, when you're clearly trying to win the fight against cancer.
If I wanted to be a martyr I'd be bringing that up every chance I get. I'd prefer if people didn't.
Well, the TL horse was wearing a top-hat for a couple weeks at least, but I would like you to know that I wish you all the best with your recovery.
On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote: Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt".
Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read..
It's highly relevant.
No it's not. Iaguz choice of words weren't ROOT's official statement on the matter. It was his reaction to a teammate being lambasted in a pretty fucking personal way. Also Iaguz is Australian so the word cunt has a completely different context to him than it might have to you. So chill out. Again it's not like it was something ROOT got together collectively and thought out.
On June 16 2014 11:08 dsousa wrote: How much do your feeling have to be hurt before its punishable?
You can't measure it, so you IMO its too subject to bias to be policable.
Being offensive is not a crime. SC2 admins should not be in the business of policing game chats.
Its just words, they are what you make of them.
TB really hurt my feeling with his sarcasms, but I'm going to get over it an move on.
Yeah but that kind of childish behavior cannot be allowed to represent sponsors/teams if we want SC2 to be anything legit. Therefore he got kicked. Totally deserved.
Also if you have any empathy you condemn what he said because it's fucked up
On June 16 2014 11:08 dsousa wrote: How much do your feeling have to be hurt before its punishable?
You can't measure it, so you IMO its too subject to bias to be policable.
Being offensive is not a crime. SC2 admins should not be in the business of policing game chats.
Its just words, they are what you make of them.
TB really hurt my feeling with his sarcasms, but I'm going to get over it an move on.
When you're a pro player it doesn't work that way though, you're not only representing yourself, you're representing your team and the sponsors who endorse your team. Ruff doing what he did reflects on IvD, to keep him on would be to endorse him.
No being offensive is not a crime but if you're representing your team it's a major misdemeanour, one that has to be punished.
On June 16 2014 11:08 dsousa wrote: How much do your feeling have to be hurt before its punishable?
You can't measure it, so you IMO its too subject to bias to be policable.
Being offensive is not a crime. SC2 admins should not be in the business of policing game chats.
Its just words, they are what you make of them.
TB really hurt my feeling with his sarcasms, but I'm going to get over it an move on.
This is all bollocks. I didn't actually hurt your feelings. I don't know anything about you, I don't have the ability to make personal attacks against you. Being offensive is actually a crime yes, in many countries. Deliberately going out of your way to personally attack people is a crime in many countries and it's certainly an offense under the Battle.net terms of service. Can we stop comparing some random trash-talk to a highly personal targeted insult? I can't personally insult you, I don't know anything about you, Ruff knew a lot about Minigun and used it to make a highly personal attack. He deserved what he got in reply, his gross misconduct got him kicked from his team.
There is no such thing as "just words". Some are what you make of them, some you can choose to interpret in different ways, there is no room to interpret something designed to hurt you personally. None at all.
Here is what is policable from a team managers perspective. The conduct of my players and the public relations of my team with the fanbase and the sponsors. That's actually part of the job, to manage public perception. When your team gets tarnished by player like that it is actually your job to "police" them, discipline them, up to and including removal from the team if you believe it to be necessary. That's how teams work. When you sign a contact with a misconduct clause, you cease to be able to make arguments like "being offensive is not a crime". A crime no, but an offense that can get you fired? Definitely.
Who's to judge, that's what bothers me.
The team manager.... Literally part of their job is to judge.
Except his employer doesn't give a shit and is just pissed at him for making shit head public comments about someone who has a life threatening disease. It has nothing to do with SC2, but with his job. His only job. Win at Starcraft and don't be a shit head. He failed at one, so now he doesn't get to do the other professionally.
On June 16 2014 11:08 dsousa wrote: How much do your feeling have to be hurt before its punishable?
You can't measure it, so you IMO its too subject to bias to be policable.
Being offensive is not a crime. SC2 admins should not be in the business of policing game chats.
Its just words, they are what you make of them.
TB really hurt my feeling with his sarcasms, but I'm going to get over it an move on.
When you're a pro player it doesn't work that way though, you're not only representing yourself, you're representing your team and the sponsors who endorse your team. Ruff doing what he did reflects on IvD, to keep him on would be to endorse him.
No being offensive is not a crime but if you're representing your team it's a major misdemeanour, one that has to be punished.
I have no problem with the team dumping him for being a jackass. That is a smart move on their part, my point is a finer one about being banned from tournaments.
He didn't commit a crime, he didn't break a rule. He did represent himself and his team poorly.
On June 16 2014 11:14 Plansix wrote: Except his employer doesn't give a shit and is just pissed at him for making shit head public comments about someone who has a life threatening disease. It has nothing to do with SC2, but with his job. His only job. Win at Starcraft and don't be a shit head. He failed at one, so now he doesn't get to do the other professionally.
Actually his employer really does give a shit, because IvD was founded with the purpose of helping and supporting a fellow gamer diagnosed with Hodgkin’s Lymphoma and a member of their management actually has Crohns Disease. Ruff could literally not have picked a a team more likely to kick his ass to the curb for a comment like that.
He didn't commit a crime, he didn't break a rule.
In some countries yes he did and on Battle.net he absolutely did. So not even this is right, not like "it's not a crime" excuses shitty behavior anyway.
On June 16 2014 11:08 dsousa wrote: How much do your feeling have to be hurt before its punishable?
You can't measure it, so you IMO its too subject to bias to be policable.
Being offensive is not a crime. SC2 admins should not be in the business of policing game chats.
Its just words, they are what you make of them.
TB really hurt my feeling with his sarcasms, but I'm going to get over it an move on.
When you're a pro player it doesn't work that way though, you're not only representing yourself, you're representing your team and the sponsors who endorse your team. Ruff doing what he did reflects on IvD, to keep him on would be to endorse him.
No being offensive is not a crime but if you're representing your team it's a major misdemeanour, one that has to be punished.
I have no problem with the team dumping him for being a jackass. That is a smart move on their part, my point is a finer one about being banned from tournaments.
He didn't commit a crime, he didn't break a rule. He did represent himself and his team poorly.
I think it is at the discretion of tournaments to allow or not allow a player to participate if they act like idiots. It's their tournament
On June 16 2014 11:14 Plansix wrote: Except his employer doesn't give a shit and is just pissed at him for making shit head public comments about someone who has a life threatening disease. It has nothing to do with SC2, but with his job. His only job. Win at Starcraft and don't be a shit head. He failed at one, so now he doesn't get to do the other professionally.
If you'd taken the time to read the statement in the opening post you'd realise how wrong that statement is. As TB said it is literally the WORST team he could be on to be a dumb shit like he was
On June 16 2014 11:14 Plansix wrote: Except his employer doesn't give a shit and is just pissed at him for making shit head public comments about someone who has a life threatening disease. It has nothing to do with SC2, but with his job. His only job. Win at Starcraft and don't be a shit head. He failed at one, so now he doesn't get to do the other professionally.
Actually his employer really does give a shit, because IvD was founded with the purpose of helping and supporting a fellow gamer diagnosed with Hodgkin’s Lymphoma and a member of their management actually has Crohns Disease. Ruff could literally not have picked a a team more likely to kick his ass to the curb for a comment like that.
In some countries yes he did and on Battle.net he absolutely did. So not even this is right, not like "it's not a crime" excuses shitty behavior anyway.
Really, his boss has crowns disease and the team was founded to help another sick gamer? You can't make this shit up. What a fucking knuckle head. That's like making fun of autistic children when you know you boss has an autistic child.
There are times like these where I'm not sure which is more frustrating: that TB is continuing the discussion (however well-meaning he is), or that people are still making short-sighted comments. I've (frustratingly) read much of the last sixteen pages, and what we're at now is effectively the same things that have been argued and debunked already...
The point is, RuFF made a gesture contrary to the beliefs held by his team; he was discharged according to the context of the situation. He apologized. The rest is fluff; the epilogue is now RuFF's to make, not us.
On June 16 2014 11:22 Spect8rCraft wrote: There are times like these where I'm not sure which is more frustrating: that TB is continuing the discussion (however well-meaning he is), or that people are still making short-sighted comments. I've (frustratingly) read much of the last sixteen pages, and what we're at now is effectively the same things that have been argued and debunked already...
The point is, RuFF made a gesture contrary to the beliefs held by his team; he was discharged according to the context of the situation. He apologized. The rest is fluff; the epilogue is now RuFF's to make, not us.
i've read it all too and i'm not sure i want it to stop, it's both cringeworthy and entertaining. Thank god no one notable has gotten into a shitfest with TB though, threads tend to descend into awfullness when that happens, atm all we have are some people with little empathy alot of confused people and a good few (rightfully) butthurt people. Oh and some trolls/drama whores too.
Lol Ruff... "I saved my brother from cancer" and "I literally cried" 26 years old and saying shit like this chasing a progammer dream as a 26 year old and not even close to making it. Sad sad life
Lol I was watching Ken yesterday and he was asking for donations for his sick cat to get surgery, no one was bothered by that at all, streamers do donation drives all the time. I don't know if Ruff expected anyone to back him up when he attacked Minigun for that but if he did he's out of touch and/or an idiot.
On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote: Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt".
Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read..
It's highly relevant.
No it's not. Iaguz choice of words weren't ROOT's official statement on the matter. It was his reaction to a teammate being lambasted in a pretty fucking personal way. Also Iaguz is Australian so the word cunt has a completely different context to him than it might have to you. So chill out. Again it's not like it was something ROOT got together collectively and thought out.
Lol sorry you can't explain away the word "cunt" by context. When the sentence in question is "what a cunt". It shows that the reaction to an unprofessional insult can be very unprofessional. Iaguz carries the team tag and represents them when doing so.
[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote: Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt".
Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read..
It's highly relevant.
No it's not. Iaguz choice of words weren't ROOT's official statement on the matter. It was his reaction to a teammate being lambasted in a pretty fucking personal way. Also Iaguz is Australian so the word cunt has a completely different context to him than it might have to you. So chill out. Again it's not like it was something ROOT got together collectively and thought out.
Lol sorry you can't explain away the word "cunt" by context. When the sentence in question is "what a cunt". It shows that the reaction to an unprofessional insult can be very unprofessional. Iaguz carries the team tag and represents them when doing so.
Well I mean Ruff was being a cunt, there's nothing to explain. It's not like he meant it in jest, he meant it as an insult in retaliation for something very personal said to one of his friends. Up to ROOT management and ofc public opinion whether or not that is ok and will have any consequences. From my persective if one of my players had said that in response to something like this I'd have said "you probably shouldn't call people cunts on Twitter, it has PR ramifications, but its not like I disagree with your sentiment either".
On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote: Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt".
Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read..
It's highly relevant.
No it's not. Iaguz choice of words weren't ROOT's official statement on the matter. It was his reaction to a teammate being lambasted in a pretty fucking personal way. Also Iaguz is Australian so the word cunt has a completely different context to him than it might have to you. So chill out. Again it's not like it was something ROOT got together collectively and thought out.
Lol sorry you can't explain away the word "cunt" by context. When the sentence in question is "what a cunt". It shows that the reaction to an unprofessional insult can be very unprofessional. Iaguz carries the team tag and represents them when doing so.
Would you have preferred the Australian cliché "Wanker" instead? He called him a cunt cause in this case Ruff was a cunt
On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote: Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt".
Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read..
It's highly relevant.
No it's not. Iaguz choice of words weren't ROOT's official statement on the matter. It was his reaction to a teammate being lambasted in a pretty fucking personal way. Also Iaguz is Australian so the word cunt has a completely different context to him than it might have to you. So chill out. Again it's not like it was something ROOT got together collectively and thought out.
Lol sorry you can't explain away the word "cunt" by context. When the sentence in question is "what a cunt". It shows that the reaction to an unprofessional insult can be very unprofessional. Iaguz carries the team tag and represents them when doing so.
Would you have preferred the Australian cliché "Wanker" instead? He called him a cunt cause in this case Ruff was a cunt
Quite. If this wasn't deserving of cuntdom, I don't know what is.
[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
Seems kinda sick.
Yeah making fun of someone's illness/financial situation due to medical bills makes one lovable I agree. Also the guy with Crohns that has these medical bills is the villain. THAT MAKES NO SENSE. He is not a lovable asshole. I won't go on to say that Ruff is an asshole as I don't know him, but what he did gives that impression.
Also they were both streaming so it was public before he put it on Twitter. He didn't make Ruff say this, Ruff just went ahead and said it. Also Minigun is immature for letting people know that this "professional" who is representing his team and sponsors is making fun of a guy's medical and financial situations? Other way around mate.
Then you go on to say that there is no excuse for Iaguz verbally retaliating with a generic insulting word when you just praised Ruff for the verbal attack he made? What? Also don't randomly post racial slurs to try to prove a point it's not necessary.
The team's gotta do what it's gotta do, that's fine, but I'm concerned about the culture in our community when it comes to ragers. I have way more patience with a guy who rages while losing than the smug and cruel people who poke the ragers and abuse them and laugh at them. You can't hate ragers for raging while also contributing to their rage. There are a lot of players who try to be good people in general but lose themselves sometimes and cross the line. And there are also a lot of people who know exactly where the line is and have complete control of themselves and are as big of assholes as they can get away with, especially to the ragers. It'd be nice if everyone tried to be productive and helpful, and not see every guy who crosses the line as an opportunity to be hateful and get away with it.
I'm not saying ruff and minigun are examples of either end of the spectrum. I'm just using this latest drama as an opportunity to point out this reality. Ruff doesn't deserve to be a punching bag because of this one comment and everyone who ever prodded him on for their own amusement is partially responsible. I used to think people should take a laugh whenever they can get it, but sometimes it's just too selfish and a fellow human being deserves more than being laughed at for their shortcomings.
While it is ultimately IvD's decision, and I believe they were more than justified in removing ruff, anybody who has played minigun multiple times or has talked to him is aware that he fully deserves any negative comments directed towards him. IMO teams are way too overly sensitive to things players say (In this case since it mentions topics the owner has dealt with I can understand it.)
[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
Seems kinda sick.
Well, I hope its not as bad as that, but I am alarmed that someone can say something to someone on ladder. Have it tweeted. Then TB suddenly announced this person is banned from Clan Wars, then the team follows up by dumping him, probably in large part because TB was so offended.
Its just so arbitrary. And SC2 will eat alive another person who lives for the game.
And I agree with you, I think the ornery assholes add character. You have to expect that stuff on the internet, I think of it as performance art, watching someone go as low as they can go.
[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
Seems kinda sick.
Well, I hope its not as bad as that, but I am alarmed that someone can say something to someone on ladder.
Have it tweeted.
Then TB suddenly announced this person is banned from Clan Wars, then the team follows up by dumping him, probably in large part because TB was so offended.
Its just so arbitrary. And SC2 will eat alive another person who lives for the game.
And I agree with you, I think the ornery assholes add character. You have to expect that stuff on the internet, I think of it as performance art.
With all due respect to him. I think you vastly overestimate TB's power over the IvD management
Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
Seems kinda sick.
Well, I hope its not as bad as that, but I am alarmed that someone can say something to someone on ladder.
Have it tweeted.
Then TB suddenly announced this person is banned from Clan Wars, then the team follows up by dumping him, [b]probably in large part because TB was so offended.
Its just so arbitrary. And SC2 will eat alive another person who lives for the game.
And I agree with you, I think the ornery assholes add character. You have to expect that stuff on the internet, I think of it as performance art.
Probably mostly due to what they said in the OP (you know how the organization has been affected by Minigun's disease and others similar). And yeah if TB is running a tournament and doesn't want to let a guy play that's his prerogative, so TB decided that he doesn't want a guy who makes these kinds of malicious statements playing in his tournament.
Also the "assholes" part is really up to you if you like them, but I have found the assholes don't really represent sponsors/teams well in the long run.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
Seems kinda sick.
Well, I hope its not as bad as that, but I am alarmed that someone can say something to someone on ladder.
Have it tweeted.
Then TB suddenly announced this person is banned from Clan Wars, then the team follows up by dumping him, probably in large part because TB was so offended.
Its just so arbitrary. And SC2 will eat alive another person who lives for the game.
And I agree with you, I think the ornery assholes add character. You have to expect that stuff on the internet, I think of it as performance art.
With all due respect to him. I think you vastly overestimate TB's power over the IvD management
TB has the biggest following in SC2, and he came out against this guy. TB vs Ruff is a social media mismatch.
TB banned him from Clan Wars, 11 hours ago, the team dumped him 8 hours ago (according to reddit posts)
What good is he for the team if he can't represent them?
Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
Seems kinda sick.
Well, I hope its not as bad as that, but I am alarmed that someone can say something to someone on ladder.
Have it tweeted.
Then TB suddenly announced this person is banned from Clan Wars, then the team follows up by dumping him, probably in large part because TB was so offended.
Its just so arbitrary. And SC2 will eat alive another person who lives for the game.
And I agree with you, I think the ornery assholes add character. You have to expect that stuff on the internet, I think of it as performance art.
With all due respect to him. I think you vastly overestimate TB's power over the IvD management
TB has the biggest following in SC2, and he came out against this guy. TB vs Ruff is a social media mismatch.
TB banned him from Clan Wars, 11 hours ago, the team dumped him 8 hours ago (according to reddit posts)
[b]What good is he for the team if he can't represent them?
I don't think they cared about the fact that he couldn't represent them in one teamleague that is experimental with fun new maps.
I think they cared about the fact that this guy did represent them everywhere else and acted this way.
[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
Seems kinda sick.
Well, I hope its not as bad as that, but I am alarmed that someone can say something to someone on ladder.
Have it tweeted.
Then TB suddenly announced this person is banned from Clan Wars, then the team follows up by dumping him, probably in large part because TB was so offended.
Its just so arbitrary. And SC2 will eat alive another person who lives for the game.
And I agree with you, I think the ornery assholes add character. You have to expect that stuff on the internet, I think of it as performance art.
With all due respect to him. I think you vastly overestimate TB's power over the IvD management
TB has the biggest following in SC2, and he came out against this guy. TB vs Ruff is a social media mismatch.
TB banned him from Clan Wars, 11 hours ago, the team dumped him 8 hours ago (according to reddit posts)
What good is he for the team if he can't represent them?
You make it sound like Clan Wars is the only tournament IvD takes part in. As much as TB is a great guy for the SC scene, that'd be one shitty team
[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
Seems kinda sick.
Well, I hope its not as bad as that, but I am alarmed that someone can say something to someone on ladder.
Have it tweeted.
Then TB suddenly announced this person is banned from Clan Wars, then the team follows up by dumping him, probably in large part because TB was so offended.
Its just so arbitrary. And SC2 will eat alive another person who lives for the game.
And I agree with you, I think the ornery assholes add character. You have to expect that stuff on the internet, I think of it as performance art.
With all due respect to him. I think you vastly overestimate TB's power over the IvD management
TB has the biggest following in SC2, and he came out against this guy. TB vs Ruff is a social media mismatch.
TB banned him from Clan Wars, 11 hours ago, the team dumped him 8 hours ago (according to reddit posts)
What good is he for the team if he can't represent them?
yes cause he was on the team for so long before clanwars to represent them on clanwars, clearly.
On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote: Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt".
Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read..
It's highly relevant.
No it's not. Iaguz choice of words weren't ROOT's official statement on the matter. It was his reaction to a teammate being lambasted in a pretty fucking personal way. Also Iaguz is Australian so the word cunt has a completely different context to him than it might have to you. So chill out. Again it's not like it was something ROOT got together collectively and thought out.
Lol sorry you can't explain away the word "cunt" by context. When the sentence in question is "what a cunt". It shows that the reaction to an unprofessional insult can be very unprofessional. Iaguz carries the team tag and represents them when doing so.
You might be right, but it still doesn't change the fact that what Ruff said was a bit on the "cunty" side. So I personally don't have a problem with Iaguz's remark, you might, but I still don't see how it relates to the conversation here about Ruff other than completely derailing it.
[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
Seems kinda sick.
Iaguz called him a cunt because he was being a cunt, perfectly justifiable. There's a difference between an insult that's intended to hurt a specific person based on something that's happened to them and calling someone an idiot or a dickhead or a cunt, not to mention ruff was being a dick and minigun didn't do anything to deserve that.
I don't see how being insulted taints miniguns image, and I'm pretty damn sure minigun wasn't baiting ruff into making fun of his crohn's disease, so I'm not sure that it's "fucking obvious" that miniguns "baiting" was the cause.
As for him being a "loveable asshole", I'm assuming you mean someone like idra when you say that. I personally found a lot of idra's bm to be funny, and not directed at people to hurt them like this was. Idra was actually good at the game as well, which helps.
Not sure if the "Seems kinda sick" was a jab at the end, hope not.
It's rather insulting to IvDs management that you think they couldn't come to the conclusion that someone like that isn't good for their PR on their own, after giving him several chances.
I had nothing to do with it, but now I kinda wish that I had.
On June 16 2014 10:46 TotalBiscuit wrote: I will go on believing that it was actually your fault, since you were the one who attacked me in the first place and that's clear to see to anyone reading this.
Ah, the old "you started it!" point of view. How refreshing and mature of you. Well won. Consider Nony's comments, since you've called RuFF a cunt a dozen times in this thread already, and how they might apply to your perpetuation of flaming in countless threads. Let me know if I need to bold any specific parts in it if you have a difficult time seeing any parallels.
On June 16 2014 11:44 NonY wrote: The team's gotta do what it's gotta do, that's fine, but I'm concerned about the culture in our community when it comes to ragers. I have way more patience with a guy who rages while losing than the smug and cruel people who poke the ragers and abuse them and laugh at them. You can't hate ragers for raging while also contributing to their rage. There are a lot of players who try to be good people in general but lose themselves sometimes and cross the line. And there are also a lot of people who know exactly where the line is and have complete control of themselves and are as big of assholes as they can get away with, especially to the ragers. It'd be nice if everyone tried to be productive and helpful, and not see every guy who crosses the line as an opportunity to be hateful and get away with it.
I'm not saying ruff and minigun are examples of either end of the spectrum. I'm just using this latest drama as an opportunity to point out this reality. Ruff doesn't deserve to be a punching bag because of this one comment and everyone who ever prodded him on for their own amusement is partially responsible. I used to think people should take a laugh whenever they can get it, but sometimes it's just too selfish and a fellow human being deserves more than being laughed at for their shortcomings.
On June 16 2014 12:03 TotalBiscuit wrote: It's rather insulting to IvDs management that you think they couldn't come to the conclusion that someone like that isn't good for their PR on their own, after giving him several chances.
I had nothing to do with it, but now I kinda wish that I had.
Alls well that ends well?
For the record, TotalBiscuit, were you offended by what ruff had to say? I wasn't keeping track of what happened in this thread as for the last eight hours I was in bed.
On June 16 2014 11:44 NonY wrote: The team's gotta do what it's gotta do, that's fine, but I'm concerned about the culture in our community when it comes to ragers. I have way more patience with a guy who rages while losing than the smug and cruel people who poke the ragers and abuse them and laugh at them. You can't hate ragers for raging while also contributing to their rage. There are a lot of players who try to be good people in general but lose themselves sometimes and cross the line. And there are also a lot of people who know exactly where the line is and have complete control of themselves and are as big of assholes as they can get away with, especially to the ragers. It'd be nice if everyone tried to be productive and helpful, and not see every guy who crosses the line as an opportunity to be hateful and get away with it.
I'm not saying ruff and minigun are examples of either end of the spectrum. I'm just using this latest drama as an opportunity to point out this reality. Ruff doesn't deserve to be a punching bag because of this one comment and everyone who ever prodded him on for their own amusement is partially responsible. I used to think people should take a laugh whenever they can get it, but sometimes it's just too selfish and a fellow human being deserves more than being laughed at for their shortcomings.
Agreed.
On June 16 2014 10:34 TotalBiscuit wrote: Avilo is a constant torrent of public negativity towards SC2 and none of it is constructive. I guess it is fortunate that he isn't known for publicly BMing people otherwise he'd be the perfect little ball of angst. If I actually followed Avilo I'd probably believe that SC2 was the most unbalanced shitty game in existence and not want to be involved in it. If you need any proof of that, you can have a look at his Twitter feed, where he is currently trying to get people to stop watching Dreamhack so that Blizzard will fix the game. It's fortunate that he doesn't have much influence, since he is at the moment the literal embodiment of "killing ESPORTS"
I believe that SC2 is the most unbalanced shitty game in existence, yet, from time to time, I still enjoy it and continue to watch Avilo´s stream BECAUSE he is "killing ESPORTS" which gives me the subtle pleasure of doing something forbidden. In a sense it´s Starcraft porn. Rude and ugly, a relict from a time before gaming submitted to the clean and streamlined Esports Circus.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
It'd be alot easier to lay off him if there weren't so many dickriders in this thread. You get me?
PS: Being a cancer patient doesn't excuse a person of certain power and persuasion from publicly decrying a player that has already even admitted to crying as a result of his actions. Where I'M from that's called using your illness to take advantage of situations - in this case, taking advantage of your status and your medical history to make sure that Ruff has no second chances.
I just found out who you are, TotalBiscuit. I used to watch your show on youtube. Dat public appereance. On your WTF IS... you seem like the kind of dude people want to invite over for a beer and a joint. But, like Michael Jordan, you're just a douchebag taking advantage of your position to berrate people and whine at the system (yeah, I also saw your whiny video about the industry.)
Fuck you, man.
Take a page from Nony's book. I took his post as a subtle FUCK YOU to someone. But, no one batted an eye because it was done in a professional manner.
...I'm out of this thread before I get banned again. >.<
On June 16 2014 10:46 TotalBiscuit wrote: I will go on believing that it was actually your fault, since you were the one who attacked me in the first place and that's clear to see to anyone reading this.
Ah, the old "you started it!" point of view. How refreshing and mature of you. Well won. Consider Nony's comments, since you've called RuFF a cunt a dozen times in this thread already, and how they might apply to your perpetuation of flaming in countless threads.
On June 16 2014 11:44 NonY wrote: The team's gotta do what it's gotta do, that's fine, but I'm concerned about the culture in our community when it comes to ragers. I have way more patience with a guy who rages while losing than the smug and cruel people who poke the ragers and abuse them and laugh at them. You can't hate ragers for raging while also contributing to their rage. There are a lot of players who try to be good people in general but lose themselves sometimes and cross the line. And there are also a lot of people who know exactly where the line is and have complete control of themselves and are as big of assholes as they can get away with, especially to the ragers. It'd be nice if everyone tried to be productive and helpful, and not see every guy who crosses the line as an opportunity to be hateful and get away with it.
I'm not saying ruff and minigun are examples of either end of the spectrum. I'm just using this latest drama as an opportunity to point out this reality. Ruff doesn't deserve to be a punching bag because of this one comment and everyone who ever prodded him on for their own amusement is partially responsible. I used to think people should take a laugh whenever they can get it, but sometimes it's just too selfish and a fellow human being deserves more than being laughed at for their shortcomings.
give it a rest already dude, noone cares about your personal vendetta against tb for offending your sensibillities or whatever. Continuing your holier than thou act isn't getting you anywhere, I mean god forbid we stop interracting with/baiting/insulting the personality and stay on topic.
I remember watching RuFF's stream a while back. The guy has so much talent, just could never figure out why he would rage so hard. I think that Mini went over the line getting into his chat like he did, and there should be some repercussion for that, but RuFF's comments were out of line. I do think that dropping him over this is way way too much though. Having some drama in the scene isn't a bad thing, it keeps the game interesting, though his comments were over the line.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
It'd be alot easier to lay off him if there weren't so many dickriders in this thread. You get me?
PS: Being a cancer patient doesn't excuse a person of certain power and persuasion from publicly decrying a player that has already even admitted to crying as a result of his actions. Where I'M from that's called using your illness to take advantage of situations - in this case, taking advantage of your status and your medical history to make sure that Ruff has no second chances.
I just found out who you are, TotalBiscuit. I used to watch your show on youtube. Dat public appereance. On your WTF IS... you seem like the kind of dude people want to invite over for a beer and a joint. But, like Michael Jordan, you're just a douchebag taking advantage of your position to berrate people and whine at the system (yeah, I also saw your whiny video about the industry.)
Fuck you, man.
Take a page from Nony's book. I took his post as a subtle FUCK YOU to someone. But, no one batted an eye because it was done in a professional manner.
...I'm out of this thread before I get banned again. >.<
User was temp banned for this post.
It's like he thought posts disappear a couple seconds after you post them. Can you un-ban him for a second so he can tell me where he's from? I need to make sure I never go there.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
It'd be alot easier to lay off him if there weren't so many dickriders in this thread. You get me?
PS: Being a cancer patient doesn't excuse a person of certain power and persuasion from publicly decrying a player that has already even admitted to crying as a result of his actions. Where I'M from that's called using your illness to take advantage of situations - in this case, taking advantage of your status and your medical history to make sure that Ruff has no second chances.
I just found out who you are, TotalBiscuit. I used to watch your show on youtube. Dat public appereance. On your WTF IS... you seem like the kind of dude people want to invite over for a beer and a joint. But, like Michael Jordan, you're just a douchebag taking advantage of your position to berrate people and whine at the system (yeah, I also saw your whiny video about the industry.)
Fuck you, man.
Take a page from Nony's book. I took his post as a subtle FUCK YOU to someone. But, no one batted an eye because it was done in a professional manner.
...I'm out of this thread before I get banned again. >.<
Ahhh the cries of the entitled, where has TB ever used his current status as a way to get at Ruff? Ruff's dickhood did that just fine himself. In fact if anything TB has actively encouraged in this thread people DON"T bring up what he's going through, probably for the exact reason you're displaying.
No doubt you'll dismiss me as one of his so called "dickriders" but I honestly don't see how anyone can WILLFULLY be so blind. It's not TB's fault Ruff is in his predicament, TB isn't the big bad wolf. Ruff was a dick, insulting a man with an illness when he knew full well that the owner of his own team had the exact same illness.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
It'd be alot easier to lay off him if there weren't so many dickriders in this thread. You get me?
PS: Being a cancer patient doesn't excuse a person of certain power and persuasion from publicly decrying a player that has already even admitted to crying as a result of his actions. Where I'M from that's called using your illness to take advantage of situations - in this case, taking advantage of your status and your medical history to make sure that Ruff has no second chances.
I just found out who you are, TotalBiscuit. I used to watch your show on youtube. Dat public appereance. On your WTF IS... you seem like the kind of dude people want to invite over for a beer and a joint. But, like Michael Jordan, you're just a douchebag taking advantage of your position to berrate people and whine at the system (yeah, I also saw your whiny video about the industry.)
Fuck you, man.
Take a page from Nony's book. I took his post as a subtle FUCK YOU to someone. But, no one batted an eye because it was done in a professional manner.
...I'm out of this thread before I get banned again. >.<
but being a cancer patient, hell being a human being lets him feel empathy for minigun, ruff may be being dehumanized bullied or etc but he brought it on himself and heres a fact, in 3 days you won't care, neither will i probably. It might take a bit longer but within a month tops only trolls will still be attacking ruff in any way. You can't call someone out for being sick, nearly dieing and being put into debt, about having a FAN open a donation account for you and not expect/deserve backlash, the mental strain on chad must be enormous and he'll have to deal with it for alot longer then ruff will
On June 16 2014 12:18 docvoc wrote: I remember watching RuFF's stream a while back. The guy has so much talent, just could never figure out why he would rage so hard. I think that Mini went over the line getting into his chat like he did, and there should be some repercussion for that, but RuFF's comments were out of line. I do think that dropping him over this is way way too much though. Having some drama in the scene isn't a bad thing, it keeps the game interesting, though his comments were over the line.
EDIT: What NoNy said.
has there actually been confirmation that chad was in ruffs chat? I thought his audience was just saying that.
On June 16 2014 12:18 docvoc wrote: I remember watching RuFF's stream a while back. The guy has so much talent, just could never figure out why he would rage so hard. I think that Mini went over the line getting into his chat like he did, and there should be some repercussion for that, but RuFF's comments were out of line. I do think that dropping him over this is way way too much though. Having some drama in the scene isn't a bad thing, it keeps the game interesting, though his comments were over the line.
EDIT: What NoNy said.
NoNy was talking about "ragers" as if they're all the same. Drama is fine, like not shaking hands before a match or trash talk like what idra and cruncher used to do way back, that drama is interesting. What happened with RuFF is not the same at all, and sponsors will not stand for that crap, therefore dropping him was not way way too much, it was required.
Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
The situation in eSports is kind of absurd. It's almost as if every professional football player trained with randoms off the street, all day, every day, and every one of those randoms had a video camera attached to their forehead. And any time the pro did anything objectionable, it ended up all over every major news outlet.
Literally every professional athlete - hell, every professional fullstop - has some objectionable view, and says stupid things. All the time. They just don't work in an environment where their actions are public 14+ hours a day.
I think it was a pretty offensive thing to say. Considering that he's on a team which specifically supports gamers with illnesses, being kicked is probably appropriate. However, the mere fact that Ruff's now 20 times more visible for a one-liner than he ever was as a player says something about the pitchfork culture we have.
i think a mod should lock this thread no more good will come of it except for celeb baiting and spreading drama/miss-information, threads like this should probably be locked as soon as people are confident in the front page displaying enough info for people to form their own opinions.
On June 16 2014 12:32 Belisarius wrote: The situation in eSports is kind of absurd. It's almost as if every professional football player trained with randoms off the street, all day, every day, and every one of those randoms had a video camera attached to their forehead. And any time the pro did anything objectionable, it ended up all over every major news outlet.
Literally every professional athlete - hell, every professional fullstop - has some objectionable view, and says stupid things. Every day. They just don't work in an environment where their actions are public 14+ hours a day.
I think it was a pretty offensive thing to say. Considering that he's on a team which specifically supports gamers will illnesses, the action is probably appropriate. However, the mere fact that Ruff's now 20 times more visible for a one-liner than he ever was as a player says something about the pitchfork culture in esports.
I do recall that incident with Michael Vick (from American Football) where he was caught being involved with dog-fighting, and then, as far as publicity goes, things got really ruff for him.
just want to say i was actually watching when this happened. minigun was a barcode and quoted ruff from ruff's previous game "easy games, easy games." then ruff was like oh he's stream sniping. in many ways this was miniguns fault. it was a mean comment on ruffs part but minigun sure did provoke him and then go post it on twitter. pretty low in my opinon.
On June 16 2014 12:34 dark1882 wrote: i think a mod should lock this thread no more good will come of it except for celeb baiting and spreading drama/miss-information, threads like this should probably be locked as soon as people are confident in the front page displaying enough info for people to form their own opinions.
Agreed, we're just going around in circles now, isn't that what the SC reddit is for?
I wrote this blog a while back commenting on how people should treat other players online as real people (because they are real people). This is again a scenario where we see that someone mindlessly started ranting at a computer screen without any regard to the actual real person on the other side. Unfortunately for Ruff, this was to his own detriment, as it ultimately ruined something really good for him. Point being, everyone needs to start being mindful in SC2; no one wants this shit on ladder all day. No one should have to wade through "go get more cancer scrub" and "bg faggot protoss" comments to try and enjoy the game. That's not fair to other players and it makes a shitty environment that prevents growth and the overall competitiveness and skill-based play that everyone appreciates in SC2.
On June 16 2014 12:32 Belisarius wrote: The situation in eSports is kind of absurd. It's almost as if every professional football player trained with randoms off the street, all day, every day, and every one of those randoms had a video camera attached to their forehead. And any time the pro did anything objectionable, it ended up all over every major news outlet.
Literally every professional athlete - hell, every professional fullstop - has some objectionable view, and says stupid things. All the time. They just don't work in an environment where their actions are public 14+ hours a day.
I think it was a pretty offensive thing to say. Considering that he's on a team which specifically supports gamers with illnesses, being kicked is probably appropriate. However, the mere fact that Ruff's now 20 times more visible for a one-liner than he ever was as a player says something about the pitchfork culture we have.
Is that a bad thing though? It shouldn't be acceptable regardless of what team he's on, he insulted another player over the medium on which they both work, while representing his team. He made his opinion on it public in his stream even. It's not like were hunting down ruff for that time he reversed over the neighbours dog 2 years ago.
On June 16 2014 12:32 Belisarius wrote: The situation in eSports is kind of absurd. It's almost as if every professional football player trained with randoms off the street, all day, every day, and every one of those randoms had a video camera attached to their forehead. And any time the pro did anything objectionable, it ended up all over every major news outlet.
Literally every professional athlete - hell, every professional fullstop - has some objectionable view, and says stupid things. Every day. They just don't work in an environment where their actions are public 14+ hours a day.
I think it was a pretty offensive thing to say. Considering that he's on a team which specifically supports gamers will illnesses, the action is probably appropriate. However, the mere fact that Ruff's now 20 times more visible for a one-liner than he ever was as a player says something about the pitchfork culture in esports.
I do recall that incident with Michael Vick (from American Football) where he was caught being involved with dog-fighting, and then, as far as publicity goes, things got really ruff for him.
Sure, but I mean, that's actually illegal (afaik). Making an objectionable comment is not.
Athletes get in major trouble when they make major public blunders, like breaking the law or being caught using drugs. They occasionally have issues when they make really offensive (ie. almost exclusively racist) remarks on-field, during their 2 hours a week of actual presentation time. That's a tiny fraction of the things esports personalities get pulled up for.
Also this:
On June 16 2014 12:36 Xor. wrote: just want to say i was actually watching when this happened. minigun was a barcode and quoted ruff from ruff's previous game "easy games, easy games." then ruff was like oh he's stream sniping. in many ways this was miniguns fault. it was a mean comment on ruffs part but minigun sure did provoke him and then go post it on twitter. pretty low in my opinon.
On June 16 2014 12:34 dark1882 wrote: i think a mod should lock this thread no more good will come of it except for celeb baiting and spreading drama/miss-information, threads like this should probably be locked as soon as people are confident in the front page displaying enough info for people to form their own opinions.
Agreed, we're just going around in circles now, isn't that what the SC reddit is for?
On June 16 2014 12:32 Belisarius wrote: The situation in eSports is kind of absurd. It's almost as if every professional football player trained with randoms off the street, all day, every day, and every one of those randoms had a video camera attached to their forehead. And any time the pro did anything objectionable, it ended up all over every major news outlet.
Literally every professional athlete - hell, every professional fullstop - has some objectionable view, and says stupid things. Every day. They just don't work in an environment where their actions are public 14+ hours a day.
I think it was a pretty offensive thing to say. Considering that he's on a team which specifically supports gamers will illnesses, the action is probably appropriate. However, the mere fact that Ruff's now 20 times more visible for a one-liner than he ever was as a player says something about the pitchfork culture in esports.
I do recall that incident with Michael Vick (from American Football) where he was caught being involved with dog-fighting, and then, as far as publicity goes, things got really ruff for him.
Sure, but I mean, that's actually illegal (afaik). Making an objectionable comment is not.
Athletes get in major trouble when they make major public blunders, like breaking the law. They occasionally have issues when they make really offensive (ie. almost exclusively racist) remarks on-field. That's a tiny proportion of the things esports personalities get pulled up for.
On June 16 2014 12:36 Xor. wrote: just want to say i was actually watching when this happened. minigun was a barcode and quoted ruff from ruff's previous game "easy games, easy games." then ruff was like oh he's stream sniping. in many ways this was miniguns fault. it was a mean comment on ruffs part but minigun sure did provoke him and then go post it on twitter. pretty low in my opinon.
You don't have to break the law to be kicked from your team, you just have to show that you aren't a good representative for their team/sponsors (he did that)
I do not know what Minigun did and for all I know it is reprehensible but honestly a 28 year old like Ruff should be able to not (publicly or otherwise and it was publicly on stream) cross the line the way he did. That gets you in trouble.
On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote: things got really ruff for him.
you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse
This is ruff-ly the response I half-expected, but it's possible that there is a brand of dog treats called "money", shaped like dollar-signs, and his beloved canine companion is named "Sick-boy", and it's adorable when he begs for treats.
We need to seriously consider this before throwing the C-word around.
On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote: things got really ruff for him.
you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse
This is ruff-ly the response I half-expected, but it's possible that there is a brand of dog treats called "money", shaped like dollar-signs, and his beloved canine companion is named "Sick-boy", and it's adorable when he begs for treats.
We need to seriously consider this before throwing the C-word around.
i don't get this in certain areas cunt is a barely offensive word used to supllant fucker(in swearing i mean), presumably because it sounds more "eloquent". But some of you are treating it like it's truely very offensive, am i missing something? ._.
On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote: things got really ruff for him.
you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse
This is ruff-ly the response I half-expected, but it's possible that there is a brand of dog treats called "money", shaped like dollar-signs, and his beloved canine companion is named "Sick-boy", and it's adorable when he begs for treats.
We need to seriously consider this before throwing the C-word around.
i don't get this in certain areas cunt is a barely offensive word used to supllant fucker(in swearing i mean), presumably because it sounds more "eloquent". But some of you are treating it like it's truely very offensive, am i missing something? ._.
I can only speak from my own experience, and that is that "cunt" isn't that big of a deal, it's a lot like fuck or fucker, it can be used as a judge of character or a term of friendship
On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote: things got really ruff for him.
you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse
This is ruff-ly the response I half-expected, but it's possible that there is a brand of dog treats called "money", shaped like dollar-signs, and his beloved canine companion is named "Sick-boy", and it's adorable when he begs for treats.
We need to seriously consider this before throwing the C-word around.
i don't get this in certain areas cunt is a barely offensive word used to supllant fucker(in swearing i mean), presumably because it sounds more "eloquent". But some of you are treating it like it's truely very offensive, am i missing something? ._.
The word "cunt" is generally regarded in English-speaking countries as unsuitable for normal public discourse. It has been described as "the most heavily tabooed word of all English words",[10][11] although this has been disputed.[12]
Its all just cultural. What it mean here, today, is not what it will mean 100 years from now.
Go fuck yourself can mean 10 different things. Language is a living thing, which is okay because getting your feelings hurt isn't, and shouldn't be, a crime.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
My thoughts exactly. Ruff may have his moments, but he is a good person if you get to actually know him.
On June 16 2014 12:35 ninazerg wrote: things got really ruff for him.
you keep making puns like that and you're really gonna be in the doghouse
This is ruff-ly the response I half-expected, but it's possible that there is a brand of dog treats called "money", shaped like dollar-signs, and his beloved canine companion is named "Sick-boy", and it's adorable when he begs for treats.
We need to seriously consider this before throwing the C-word around.
i don't get this in certain areas cunt is a barely offensive word used to supllant fucker(in swearing i mean), presumably because it sounds more "eloquent". But some of you are treating it like it's truely very offensive, am i missing something? ._.
The word "cunt" is generally regarded in English-speaking countries as unsuitable for normal public discourse. It has been described as "the most heavily tabooed word of all English words",[10][11] although this has been disputed.[12]
Its all just cultural. What it mean here, today, is not what it will mean 100 years from now.
Go fuck yourself can mean 10 different things. Language is a living thing, which is okay because getting your feelings hurt isn't, and shouldn't be, a crime.
True but professionalism is to be expected and as i said earlier, he did it over the medium through which they work, involving his audience and team, if he'd sent chad a facebook message of similar contents for example not much could be done that's his private life, both less public and less involved with any rights chad would've had to work fairly, aswell as less damaging for his team, as it is he twisted the knife by doing it to minigun infront of a crowd especially when he already has alot on his plate.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
It'd be alot easier to lay off him if there weren't so many dickriders in this thread. You get me?
PS: Being a cancer patient doesn't excuse a person of certain power and persuasion from publicly decrying a player that has already even admitted to crying as a result of his actions. Where I'M from that's called using your illness to take advantage of situations - in this case, taking advantage of your status and your medical history to make sure that Ruff has no second chances.
I just found out who you are, TotalBiscuit. I used to watch your show on youtube. Dat public appereance. On your WTF IS... you seem like the kind of dude people want to invite over for a beer and a joint. But, like Michael Jordan, you're just a douchebag taking advantage of your position to berrate people and whine at the system (yeah, I also saw your whiny video about the industry.)
Fuck you, man.
Take a page from Nony's book. I took his post as a subtle FUCK YOU to someone. But, no one batted an eye because it was done in a professional manner.
...I'm out of this thread before I get banned again. >.<
User was temp banned for this post.
As usual, we see that many of the people that dislike me are the people nobody would want as fans to begin with.
I'm slightly confused; a player on a prominent American Team with huge sponsors, makes an ignorant comment about the health condition of another professional gamer while sporting the tag of this prominent team? And for some reason people think that its an over reaction to kick this player off the team?
There's a difference between trash talk and making a completely offensive comment that attacks a persons actual living status. Maybe we should translate RuFF's statement to make it simple for those who don't get what was said: "Ha ha, you have cancer, have fun with that". How is that a justifiable comment?
Not even trying to rag on RuFF, its the fact that he at the time was representing a top tier team of NA (IvD) and made that comment while wearing their tag. If it was any player on any other top tier team, they too would be getting the same treatment. You can't expect to get away with a comment like that and have no consequence, no matter how bad the tension between the two players is.
Apologizing on the internet doesn't take bravery; its literally the easiest thing anyone can do. Nobody can see your facial expressions or hear sympathy in your voice. All there is text on a screen.
Also, most professional athletes in the US get fined a good amount of money (by the Sporting Organization) for making personal jibes at other athletes. Obviously Blizzard can't fine RuFF (nor can IvD), so the clear action is to kick him.
It was a RuFF decision, but in the end IvD had to do what it had to do.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
My thoughts exactly. Ruff may have his moments, but he is a good person if you get to actually know him.
i don't think anyones arguing against that (mostly)
the problem is where he did it, infront of who with what he used as ammunition, he's the only one we can clearly establish to be in the wrong, regardless of whether or not minigun was too. Is dismissal fair? I can't say. plenty of players (pro and otherwise, root and otherwise) have said he's toxic others such as yourself say it's momentary and possibly rare, but it's just not fair to let it slide both to chad and as a precedent. Some people are a bit too gung ho about it though.
(the first part is at puck the rest is kinda at him but mostly just in general)
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
It'd be alot easier to lay off him if there weren't so many dickriders in this thread. You get me?
PS: Being a cancer patient doesn't excuse a person of certain power and persuasion from publicly decrying a player that has already even admitted to crying as a result of his actions. Where I'M from that's called using your illness to take advantage of situations - in this case, taking advantage of your status and your medical history to make sure that Ruff has no second chances.
I just found out who you are, TotalBiscuit. I used to watch your show on youtube. Dat public appereance. On your WTF IS... you seem like the kind of dude people want to invite over for a beer and a joint. But, like Michael Jordan, you're just a douchebag taking advantage of your position to berrate people and whine at the system (yeah, I also saw your whiny video about the industry.)
Fuck you, man.
Take a page from Nony's book. I took his post as a subtle FUCK YOU to someone. But, no one batted an eye because it was done in a professional manner.
...I'm out of this thread before I get banned again. >.<
User was temp banned for this post.
As usual, we see that many of the people that dislike me are the people nobody would want as fans to begin with.
TB, can I ask why this post is necessary. You actually wasted a minute of your time and everyone else's to go: "Oh hey look, this guy got temp banned I'm going to rub his nose in it."
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
It'd be alot easier to lay off him if there weren't so many dickriders in this thread. You get me?
PS: Being a cancer patient doesn't excuse a person of certain power and persuasion from publicly decrying a player that has already even admitted to crying as a result of his actions. Where I'M from that's called using your illness to take advantage of situations - in this case, taking advantage of your status and your medical history to make sure that Ruff has no second chances.
I just found out who you are, TotalBiscuit. I used to watch your show on youtube. Dat public appereance. On your WTF IS... you seem like the kind of dude people want to invite over for a beer and a joint. But, like Michael Jordan, you're just a douchebag taking advantage of your position to berrate people and whine at the system (yeah, I also saw your whiny video about the industry.)
Fuck you, man.
Take a page from Nony's book. I took his post as a subtle FUCK YOU to someone. But, no one batted an eye because it was done in a professional manner.
...I'm out of this thread before I get banned again. >.<
User was temp banned for this post.
As usual, we see that many of the people that dislike me are the people nobody would want as fans to begin with.
TB, can I ask why this post is necessary. You actually wasted a minute of your time and everyone else's to go: "Oh hey look, this guy got temp banned I'm going to rub his nose in it."
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
It'd be alot easier to lay off him if there weren't so many dickriders in this thread. You get me?
PS: Being a cancer patient doesn't excuse a person of certain power and persuasion from publicly decrying a player that has already even admitted to crying as a result of his actions. Where I'M from that's called using your illness to take advantage of situations - in this case, taking advantage of your status and your medical history to make sure that Ruff has no second chances.
I just found out who you are, TotalBiscuit. I used to watch your show on youtube. Dat public appereance. On your WTF IS... you seem like the kind of dude people want to invite over for a beer and a joint. But, like Michael Jordan, you're just a douchebag taking advantage of your position to berrate people and whine at the system (yeah, I also saw your whiny video about the industry.)
Fuck you, man.
Take a page from Nony's book. I took his post as a subtle FUCK YOU to someone. But, no one batted an eye because it was done in a professional manner.
...I'm out of this thread before I get banned again. >.<
User was temp banned for this post.
As usual, we see that many of the people that dislike me are the people nobody would want as fans to begin with.
TB, can I ask why this post is necessary. You actually wasted a minute of your time and everyone else's to go: "Oh hey look, this guy got temp banned I'm going to rub his nose in it."
He was affected by the page curse everything here has to be atleast slightly offensive or confused so as to cause more potential drama. mods lock thread plzzzzzzz no good can come of this anymore
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
it's a lot harder though, when there are people who's chemistry in the brain and suffer from mental disorders (anxiety is defined as a mental disorder), it is nearly impossible to change their behavior. The most common example is a psychopath, they don't experience the same feelings we experience when we win/lose games, and it often takes focused therapy over a long period of time from a professional in order to correct that behavior.
Simply saying, there are some people who simply do not believe that what they are doing is wrong and therefore should be corrected, and that is where most of the drama comes from
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
it's a lot harder though, when there are people who's chemistry in the brain and suffer from mental disorders (anxiety is defined as a mental disorder), it is nearly impossible to change their behavior. The most common example is a psychopath, they don't experience the same feelings we experience when we win/lose games, and it often takes focused therapy over a long period of time from a professional in order to correct that behavior.
Simply saying, there are some people who simply do not believe that what they are doing is wrong and therefore should be corrected, and that is where most of the drama comes from
don't feed the fire :-/ this is already a drama bomb waiting to go off, i think ima leave now before it explodes or is defused
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
My thoughts exactly. Ruff may have his moments, but he is a good person if you get to actually know him.
Hi, NonY I agree with you. I rage when I lose sometimes and sometimes I say stupid things when people egg me on.
With that being said, I would like to point out that I was watching RuFF's stream a couple weeks back. RuFF lost to a barcode protoss a couple of times, and he just proclaimed to his stream "Oh that must be Minigun stream sniping me" and then he said basically what he said to chad in the SS to his stream.
For the record, it wasn't Minigun, Minigun wasn't watching his stream, RuFF just decided out of nowhere that this barcode must be Minigun and called him a sick boy that should go beg for more donations.
So, yeah, RuFF is a real cunt, and he deserves everything that he gets.
This whole thing is stupid. People say things like "this chat is giving me cancer" or "you just got raped" but no one seems to get angry over that. I don't know if anyone here knows this but there are literally people getting cancer and getting raped every day but most people on the internet seem to be fine joking about it.
In the end, its only game. No reason why people need to say terrible things at each other. If only Blizzard made a mandatory tutorial called, "Learning how to have fun 101: Losing is not reflective of your self worth, don't act like it does."
On June 16 2014 13:50 LittleRedBoy wrote: This whole thing is stupid. People say things like "this chat is giving me cancer" or "you just got raped" but no one seems to get angry over that. I don't know if anyone here knows this but there are literally people getting cancer and getting raped every day but most people on the internet seem to be fine joking about it.
Are you a robot? I ask because humans by default have empathy and understand things like why if you mocked a man you knew for a fact had a serious illness and used that illness against him, you'd be considered a bad person.
It's the intent behind the words, not the words themselves. The chat didn't actually give you cancer, the person did not actually get raped, but Minigun is sick and having financial troubles, Ruff knew this and decided to use that to try and hurt him.
If you cannot tell the difference then I'm sorry but you are not grown up enough to be having adult conversations. This is some basic shit. I know people who are genuinely autistic, who really shouldn't understand these kind of things when it comes to social interaction and yet they can grasp this concept.
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
It'd be alot easier to lay off him if there weren't so many dickriders in this thread. You get me?
PS: Being a cancer patient doesn't excuse a person of certain power and persuasion from publicly decrying a player that has already even admitted to crying as a result of his actions. Where I'M from that's called using your illness to take advantage of situations - in this case, taking advantage of your status and your medical history to make sure that Ruff has no second chances.
I just found out who you are, TotalBiscuit. I used to watch your show on youtube. Dat public appereance. On your WTF IS... you seem like the kind of dude people want to invite over for a beer and a joint. But, like Michael Jordan, you're just a douchebag taking advantage of your position to berrate people and whine at the system (yeah, I also saw your whiny video about the industry.)
Fuck you, man.
Take a page from Nony's book. I took his post as a subtle FUCK YOU to someone. But, no one batted an eye because it was done in a professional manner.
...I'm out of this thread before I get banned again. >.<
User was temp banned for this post.
As usual, we see that many of the people that dislike me are the people nobody would want as fans to begin with.
TB, can I ask why this post is necessary. You actually wasted a minute of your time and everyone else's to go: "Oh hey look, this guy got temp banned I'm going to rub his nose in it."
I doubt it took you a minute to read my response.
I read that entire web of quotes. It was appropriate to kick RuFF off the team but is it that weird for someone to think it's a little extreme? I think something like not paying for him to go to MLG or something combined with a suspension would be a decent punishment as well.
EG isn't perfect but let's face it, IdrA said terrible things after every other loss and it took him openly attacking his entire fanbase for him to get kicked from EG.
It's really not that weird to think a less severe punishment could also be appropriate. People are mean and say mean things sometimes.
Like this one time I saw this guy just go crazy at this guy for having an opinion different from his and it just went on and on..
On June 16 2014 13:55 Slipspace wrote: I read that entire web of quotes. It was appropriate to kick RuFF off the team but is it that weird for someone to think it's a little extreme? I think something like not paying for him to go to MLG or something combined with a suspension would be a decent punishment as well.
EG isn't perfect but let's face it, IdrA said terrible things after every other loss and it took him openly attacking his entire fanbase for him to get kicked from EG.
It's really not that weird to think a less severe punishment could also be appropriate. People are mean and say mean things sometimes.
Like this one time I saw this guy just go crazy at this guy for having an opinion different from his and it just went on and on..
That's cute. There only craziness going on here is in the form of people defending Ruffs actions. The criticism of Ruff is rational and reasonable as was IvDs actions. EG kicked IdrA eventually sure, but EG was also not formed by people wanting to support players with crippling diseases (specifically cancer initially), nor do they to the best of my knowledge have a management member with Crohns. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, you can't make this shit up, Ruff could not have possibly been on a team that would have found his remarks more unjustifiable, that team does not exist. For all IdrAs faults, I don't remember him ever going for truly personal attacks.
Oh and shit like this is probably why the NA scene isn't worth a damn. Let me tell you about all the times my players have been personally insulted by other Korean pros.
That'd be never. NA "pros" though, oh yeah, most certainly. Small minds discuss people after all...
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
On June 16 2014 13:50 LittleRedBoy wrote: This whole thing is stupid. People say things like "this chat is giving me cancer" or "you just got raped" but no one seems to get angry over that. I don't know if anyone here knows this but there are literally people getting cancer and getting raped every day but most people on the internet seem to be fine joking about it.
I in no way condone the use of those words, but how can you make someone accountable for that sort of language? I hate Twitch chat, for the most part, because most of the people who take part in it do use that sort of language. In a sense, it has become a part of gamer lingo, which is pretty sad in itself.
But if you are going to talk about someone who is in a prominent position, such as a popular streamer like RuFF, or IdrA back in the day, or even Destiny now, they did get told off for saying things like that. Were you here when there was a gigantic shitstorm over Destiny calling someone a gook? He was released from Quantic, and also was pulled from a casting gig he was supposed to do. It was not just that isolated incident either, it was from all the things he says while streaming. Destiny does not think the word rape is offensive. He says so. And if you think it is offensive, you should not watch his stream, because he is not going to cater to that.
And now that he has no team or sponsors anymore and makes his income solely from streaming, he does not have to answer to anyone, so who can someone complain to if they find him offensive?
What about when Orb called someone a nigger? He was fired from his job casting the EG Masters Cup.
But if some random person does it, what can you do? Say that their language offends you? They will laugh it off, and probably do it even more.
Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
I don't really see any problems with the way this went. He made an ass of himself publicly, got outed, and was punished. If he acted butthurt over his removal from lvD then i'd call him a prick, but the fact that he apologized just makes him a rager who went overboard.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
My thoughts exactly. Ruff may have his moments, but he is a good person if you get to actually know him.
Hi, NonY I agree with you. I rage when I lose sometimes and sometimes I say stupid things when people egg me on.
With that being said, I would like to point out that I was watching RuFF's stream a couple weeks back. RuFF lost to a barcode protoss a couple of times, and he just proclaimed to his stream "Oh that must be Minigun stream sniping me" and then he said basically what he said to chad in the SS to his stream.
For the record, it wasn't Minigun, Minigun wasn't watching his stream, RuFF just decided out of nowhere that this barcode must be Minigun and called him a sick boy that should go beg for more donations.
So, yeah, RuFF is a real cunt, and he deserves everything that he gets.
That's fine if you have more details on their relationship and wanna judge him. I'm totally using this situation as an opportunity to go off on a tangent and not trying to comment directly on ruff and minigun, and I appreciate that you support what I'm saying in general.
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
It shouldnt be that hard, but apparently it is for a lot of people.
On June 16 2014 13:55 Slipspace wrote: I read that entire web of quotes. It was appropriate to kick RuFF off the team but is it that weird for someone to think it's a little extreme? I think something like not paying for him to go to MLG or something combined with a suspension would be a decent punishment as well.
EG isn't perfect but let's face it, IdrA said terrible things after every other loss and it took him openly attacking his entire fanbase for him to get kicked from EG.
It's really not that weird to think a less severe punishment could also be appropriate. People are mean and say mean things sometimes.
Like this one time I saw this guy just go crazy at this guy for having an opinion different from his and it just went on and on..
That's cute. There only craziness going on here is in the form of people defending Ruffs actions. The criticism of Ruff is rational and reasonable as was IvDs actions. EG kicked IdrA eventually sure, but EG was also not formed by people wanting to support players with crippling diseases (specifically cancer initially), nor do they to the best of my knowledge have a management member with Crohns. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, you can't make this shit up, Ruff could not have possibly been on a team that would have found his remarks more unjustifiable, that team does not exist. For all IdrAs faults, I don't remember him ever going for truly personal attacks.
Oh and shit like this is probably why the NA scene isn't worth a damn. Let me tell you about all the times my players have been personally insulted by other Korean pros.
That'd be never. NA "pros" though, oh yeah, most certainly. Small minds discuss people after all...
I know and I'm not saying I disagree with IvD's decision to kick him from the team, but I can see why people think it might be extreme.
On June 16 2014 14:09 Slipspace wrote: I know and I'm not saying I disagree with IvD's decision to kick him from the team, but I can see why people think it might be extreme.
It is unfortunate that those people don't take the short amount of time to learn the context of the whole situation.
On June 16 2014 14:09 Slipspace wrote: I know and I'm not saying I disagree with IvD's decision to kick him from the team, but I can see why people think it might be extreme.
It is unfortunate that those people don't take the short amount of time to learn the context of the whole situation.
Sounds bites man, sounds bites. We Americans have trouble absorbing anything that takes longer than 5 seconds, whether it be visual or auditory. 5 seconds might be too generous as well.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
My thoughts exactly. Ruff may have his moments, but he is a good person if you get to actually know him.
Hi, NonY I agree with you. I rage when I lose sometimes and sometimes I say stupid things when people egg me on.
With that being said, I would like to point out that I was watching RuFF's stream a couple weeks back. RuFF lost to a barcode protoss a couple of times, and he just proclaimed to his stream "Oh that must be Minigun stream sniping me" and then he said basically what he said to chad in the SS to his stream.
For the record, it wasn't Minigun, Minigun wasn't watching his stream, RuFF just decided out of nowhere that this barcode must be Minigun and called him a sick boy that should go beg for more donations.
So, yeah, RuFF is a real cunt, and he deserves everything that he gets.
What? Sounds like you are raging as right now.
I wish people would actually listen to what NoNy is saying.
Out of all of the players in the NA, how does a person become fixated on "beefing" with minigun? That's so bizarre to me, that it's impossible to even move beyond that. If he can explain that in more detail, I think he should be spared some leniency, as I assume it's a really stupid/funny reason for holding a grudge.
I like watching ruff's stream. I hope he doesn't go away. Every time I tune in, he's either talking like a girl on whether minigun likes him or not, or he's accusing someone of stream cheating. I never understood the idea that so many people would be comfortable stream cheating, but they wouldn't go ahead and just map hack. He actually streams at times, with his screen all black, while playing, to "prevent stream cheating" lol. Obviously, you shouldn't take a guy like this too seriously and he probably has some issues .
Some complete no name who is only known for BMing Minigun has 20 pages on a premiere SC2 site. Jesus this community is starved for drama since Naniwa and Idra retired.
On June 16 2014 14:09 Slipspace wrote: I know and I'm not saying I disagree with IvD's decision to kick him from the team, but I can see why people think it might be extreme.
It is unfortunate that those people don't take the short amount of time to learn the context of the whole situation.
I say those things assuming the context of the whole situation is understood. RuFF had been on IvD for a long time and I'm sure he is good friends with the managers of the team so I'm sure it wasn't easy for them to kick him off, at least as easy as you perhaps would have. People have varying sets of values and just because you own a team it doesn't make your's correct and some else's wrong.
Like I think these things should be handled to the extreme of this situation because of how awful the NA scene is but I'm not going to attack people for disagreeing with me.
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
You could have told him this in a PM or just not said anything at all, I'm sure most people wouldn't even know he was taking a jab with that comment, but you retaliated publicly anyways, why?
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
Or wishing someone cancer on twitter?
This has already been addressed... Please no more baits
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
I dunno, cuz I was listening to some rap music by Jay-Z and Kanye West and they both used the word like more than five times each, and people be like "Hov and Ye are the shit"
On June 16 2014 13:50 LittleRedBoy wrote: This whole thing is stupid. People say things like "this chat is giving me cancer" or "you just got raped" but no one seems to get angry over that. I don't know if anyone here knows this but there are literally people getting cancer and getting raped every day but most people on the internet seem to be fine joking about it.
Are you a robot? I ask because humans by default have empathy and understand things like why if you mocked a man you knew for a fact had a serious illness and used that illness against him, you'd be considered a bad person.
It's the intent behind the words, not the words themselves. The chat didn't actually give you cancer, the person did not actually get raped, but Minigun is sick and having financial troubles, Ruff knew this and decided to use that to try and hurt him.
If you cannot tell the difference then I'm sorry but you are not grown up enough to be having adult conversations. This is some basic shit. I know people who are genuinely autistic, who really shouldn't understand these kind of things when it comes to social interaction and yet they can grasp this concept.
So it's NOT okay to joke about a serious illness when the person in question is affected by the illness, but it is okay to joke about a serious illness when the person isn't affected by it? That sounds a bit hypocritical to me. Sure, you may not intend to hurt anyone by saying "you got raped;" but, how would you feel if you were raped and you saw someone cavalierly say that in a twitch chat? Joking about suicide or rape or cancer should be condemned no matter the intent.
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
I dunno, cuz I was listening to some rap music by Jay-Z and Kanye West and they both used the word like more than five times each, and people be like "Hov and Ye are the shit"
You may have noticed the colour of their skin....
Whatever the case it's a pretty silly comparison. If todays incident proved anything, curse words are not required to make personally hurtful remarks.
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
I dunno, cuz I was listening to some rap music by Jay-Z and Kanye West and they both used the word like more than five times each, and people be like "Hov and Ye are the shit"
Come on now you know there's a difference... Why are you doing this
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
Sexism is okay, racism is not.
Got it. Take note SC2 pro gamers.
Are you going to publish a list of bannable BM, or just ban people as you see fit? Is there a process or is just based on your mood?
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
I dunno, cuz I was listening to some rap music by Jay-Z and Kanye West and they both used the word like more than five times each, and people be like "Hov and Ye are the shit"
You may have noticed the colour of their skin....
Whatever the case it's a pretty silly comparison. If todays incident proved anything, curse words are not required to make personally hurtful remarks.
I never look at people's skin color on the internet unless they go on webcam or something.
On June 16 2014 13:50 LittleRedBoy wrote: This whole thing is stupid. People say things like "this chat is giving me cancer" or "you just got raped" but no one seems to get angry over that. I don't know if anyone here knows this but there are literally people getting cancer and getting raped every day but most people on the internet seem to be fine joking about it.
Are you a robot? I ask because humans by default have empathy and understand things like why if you mocked a man you knew for a fact had a serious illness and used that illness against him, you'd be considered a bad person.
It's the intent behind the words, not the words themselves. The chat didn't actually give you cancer, the person did not actually get raped, but Minigun is sick and having financial troubles, Ruff knew this and decided to use that to try and hurt him.
If you cannot tell the difference then I'm sorry but you are not grown up enough to be having adult conversations. This is some basic shit. I know people who are genuinely autistic, who really shouldn't understand these kind of things when it comes to social interaction and yet they can grasp this concept.
So it's NOT okay to joke about a serious illness when the person in question is affected by the illness, but it is okay to joke about a serious illness when the person isn't affected by it? That sounds a bit hypocritical to me. Sure, you may not intend to hurt anyone by saying "you got raped;" but, how would you feel if you were raped and you saw someone cavalierly say that in a twitch chat? Joking about suicide or rape or cancer should be condemned no matter the intent.
Hahaha holy shit did we not just have this discussion about what hypocrisy means 10 pages ago?
I have cancer. I do not find terms like "twitch cancer" offensive because it is not aimed at me. I do find it offensive when people mock the fact that I have cancer, because that is intended to be offensive and hurtful. That said I also find it pathetic that someone would stoop that low, since it indicates much greater problems that can't be fixed by radiation therapy... No, joking about cancer should not be condemned no matter the intent, neither should rape or suicide. Jokes are just that, jokes, they are not intended to be hurtful. You may wish to be choosy about whose company you tell them in but they are not insults, there is a gigantic difference between the two.
I'm not sure why you are bringing comments like that into the discussion, they aren't relevant. Highly personal insult = more offensive than scattershot facetious statement. That is common sense.
Sexism is okay, racism is not.
Got it. Take note SC2 pro gamers.
Are you going to publish a list of bannable BM, or just ban people as you see fit? Is there a process or is just based on your mood?
Pro's need to know, their careers are at stake.
I'll stick to banning people from my events as I see fit, since y'know they are invitationals and I can uninvite whoever I want whenever I want. Oh and cunt in this context is not a sexist term. It is certainly one of the most offensive things you can to say to a woman but it is highly debated as to whether outside of that context it is actually sexist. It mostly seems like an American issue, in other countries it is considered a fairly severe but otherwise gender-neutral swearword.
As for their careers, there is no player on this earth whose career is at "stake" due to his inability to play in Clan Wars, Your career might be at stake however if you go around being the biggest shit in Westeros to people, so maybe don't do that.
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
Sexism is okay, racism is not.
Got it. Take note SC2 pro gamers.
Are you going to publish a list of bannable BM, or just ban people as you see fit? Is there a process or is just based on your mood?
Pro's need to know, their careers are at stake.
Wasn't aware that was a sexist term. I don't find that term to be ok at all, but I also realize that there are such things as cultural differences so that be much more common in another part of the world. The n word is almost universally condemned seeing as it is a very racist term and goes back to some dark shit
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
Sexism is okay, racism is not.
Got it. Take note SC2 pro gamers.
Are you going to publish a list of bannable BM, or just ban people as you see fit? Is there a process or is just based on your mood?
Pro's need to know, their careers are at stake.
Wasn't aware that was a sexist term. I don't find that term to be ok at all, but I also realize that there are such things as cultural differences so that be much more common in another part of the world. The n word is almost universally condemned seeing as it is a very racist term and goes back to some dark shit
Dark shit like men owning women as property and using them as sex slaves?
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
Sexism is okay, racism is not.
Got it. Take note SC2 pro gamers.
Are you going to publish a list of bannable BM, or just ban people as you see fit? Is there a process or is just based on your mood?
Pro's need to know, their careers are at stake.
Wait, are you saying the "C-word" sexist? It's not a word used to demean all women, it's like a way worse version of "bitch" (at least in my understanding of the word).
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
Usually people who BM seem to just really be angry with themselves and are venting, saying "imba" or "fuck off" or whatever, which won't get them kicked from a team as far as I'm aware. Making them angry by offensive gg'ing the next game is just fun, not really eye for an eye, and if they take that and then do something like what ruff did then fuck em, good riddance. Adults should be able to show some self control, and hell, they shouldn't be thinking things like "I better insult this kid about his serious disease, that'll get him" in the first place. If they do think those things then I'm glad people are there to troll them and get them to reveal how fucked they are.
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
Sexism is okay, racism is not.
Got it. Take note SC2 pro gamers.
Are you going to publish a list of bannable BM, or just ban people as you see fit? Is there a process or is just based on your mood?
Pro's need to know, their careers are at stake.
Wasn't aware that was a sexist term. I don't find that term to be ok at all, but I also realize that there are such things as cultural differences so that be much more common in another part of the world. The n word is almost universally condemned seeing as it is a very racist term and goes back to some dark shit
Dark shit like men owning women as property and using them as sex slaves?
Kinda like that, although I'm not sure that's where the C word originated (correct me if I'm wrong honestly I don't know) but anyways your argument seems to be that if the n word is unacceptable than the c word should be also?
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
Usually people who BM seem to just really be angry with themselves and are venting, saying "imba" or "fuck off" or whatever, which won't get them kicked from a team as far as I'm aware. Making them angry by offensive gg'ing the next game is just fun, not really eye for an eye, and if they take that and then do something like what ruff did then fuck em, good riddance. Adults should be able to show some self control, and hell, they shouldn't be thinking things like "I better insult this kid about his serious disease, that'll get him" in the first place. If they do think those things then I'm glad people are there to troll them and get them to reveal how fucked they are.
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
Sexism is okay, racism is not.
Got it. Take note SC2 pro gamers.
Are you going to publish a list of bannable BM, or just ban people as you see fit? Is there a process or is just based on your mood?
Pro's need to know, their careers are at stake.
Wasn't aware that was a sexist term. I don't find that term to be ok at all, but I also realize that there are such things as cultural differences so that be much more common in another part of the world. The n word is almost universally condemned seeing as it is a very racist term and goes back to some dark shit
Dark shit like men owning women as property and using them as sex slaves?
The point is it is INSANE to try and mediate and police this stuff.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
I'm not the first one to be a dick, ever, NonY, that's my one policy - its you who went and made ridiculous accusations and I responded, sorry that's how I choose to deal with the situation, that's my first insitinct and that's what I'll continue to do, cause i'm not a hypocrite, you can write essays about how shady I am and say we're cheating, talk about conspiracy and expect me to sit quietly? Maybe it would be the professional thing to do, maybe i'm not professional, well shame on me. not go and post stupid shit elsewhere and then come back and make Gandhi-like posts about improving the community, im not about to list what I have or haven't done for this game, clearly, I dislike you and you dislike me, the "lets all get along and be nice to each other" message coming from you bothers me a lot, for obvious reasons, more-so when the TL thread's about RuFF getting kicked out for being a dick to one of my teammates and best friends.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
Usually people who BM seem to just really be angry with themselves and are venting, saying "imba" or "fuck off" or whatever, which won't get them kicked from a team as far as I'm aware. Making them angry by offensive gg'ing the next game is just fun, not really eye for an eye, and if they take that and then do something like what ruff did then fuck em, good riddance. Adults should be able to show some self control, and hell, they shouldn't be thinking things like "I better insult this kid about his serious disease, that'll get him" in the first place. If they do think those things then I'm glad people are there to troll them and get them to reveal how fucked they are.
Ummmmm...
Ummm what? An eye for an eye, meaning to get someone back for wronging you. Someone venting "at" me isn't wronging me, so can't be called an eye for an eye. I'm also not out of control when I offensive gg someone whose blabbering about imbalances or whatever, care to bold out any more of what I said? I'll try to explain it the best I can to you.
The point is it is INSANE to try and mediate and police this stuff.
Nobody is trying to police it, they're just ensuring there are consequences for acting like a little shit when you're representing an organization. That's not mediation or police work, that's capitalism working as intended.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
I'm not the first one to be a dick, ever, NonY, that's my one policy - its you who went and made ridiculous accusations and I responded, sorry that's how I choose to deal with the situation, that's my first insitinct and that's what I'll continue to do, cause i'm not a hypocrite, you can write essays about how shady I am and say we're cheating, talk about conspiracy and expect me to sit quietly? Maybe it would be the professional thing to do, maybe i'm not professional, well shame on me. not go and post stupid shit elsewhere and then come back and make Gandhi-like posts about improving the community, im not about to list what I have or haven't done for this game, clearly, I dislike you and you dislike me, the "lets all get along and be nice to each other" message coming from you bothers me a lot, for obvious reasons, more-so when the TL thread's about RuFF getting kicked out for being a dick to one of my teammates and best friends.
TLDR You hurt my feelings, so fuck you. And we are BOTH hypocrites! cause if you are, then i am! get rekt fgt
Seriously... i wonder why the NA scene is garbage, shouldnt you all be practising? Or at least petitioning for handicap tournaments where they wont let in the good players so you can justify your careers as "pro-gamers"
The point is it is INSANE to try and mediate and police this stuff.
Nobody is trying to police it, they're just ensuring there are consequences for acting like a little shit when you're representing an organization. That's not mediation or police work, that's capitalism working as intended.
FOR ONCE amirite or amirite?! Haha #jokes #civilthread
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
Sexism is okay, racism is not.
Got it. Take note SC2 pro gamers.
Are you going to publish a list of bannable BM, or just ban people as you see fit? Is there a process or is just based on your mood?
Pro's need to know, their careers are at stake.
The n word is almost universally condemned seeing as it is a very racist term and goes back to some dark shit
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
Sexism is okay, racism is not.
Got it. Take note SC2 pro gamers.
Are you going to publish a list of bannable BM, or just ban people as you see fit? Is there a process or is just based on your mood?
Pro's need to know, their careers are at stake.
The n word is almost universally condemned seeing as it is a very racist term and goes back to some dark shit
Wow I should fire you for this
So you're IvD and I'm RuFF is that it? Is RuFF all I ever was to you?!
It may or may not be too soon for this to be remotely funny I dunno
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
Usually people who BM seem to just really be angry with themselves and are venting, saying "imba" or "fuck off" or whatever, which won't get them kicked from a team as far as I'm aware. Making them angry by offensive gg'ing the next game is just fun, not really eye for an eye, and if they take that and then do something like what ruff did then fuck em, good riddance. Adults should be able to show some self control, and hell, they shouldn't be thinking things like "I better insult this kid about his serious disease, that'll get him" in the first place. If they do think those things then I'm glad people are there to troll them and get them to reveal how fucked they are.
Ummmmm...
Ummm what? An eye for an eye, meaning to get someone back for wronging you. Someone venting "at" me isn't wronging me, so can't be called an eye for an eye. I'm also not out of control when I offensive gg someone whose blabbering about imbalances or whatever, care to bold out any more of what I said? I'll try to explain it the best I can to you.
I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to offend you (There is enough of that in this thread), I just don't see the point in offensive gg's and the like. I mean, sure, it is among the least offensive thing you can do (comparatively), and is obviously far better than calling someone out for their disease or using racial slurs. I just think that in the sense where you say ''people who BM are seem to just be really angry with themselves,'' doing something like an offensive GG is just adding fuel to the fire. If they should have the self control to not BM in the first place, shouldn't you have the self control not to antagonize, no matter how mildly?
And again, this is just my opinion, and it's pretty clear that this thread is pretty heated, so I am just going to say that it is totally fine if you disagree with me.
The point is it is INSANE to try and mediate and police this stuff.
Nobody is trying to police it, they're just ensuring there are consequences for acting like a little shit when you're representing an organization. That's not mediation or police work, that's capitalism working as intended.
FOR ONCE amirite or amirite?! Haha #jokes #civilthread
It's not working
Of course not, hashtags never achieved anything.
God this thread made me hate Starcraft for a day. Let's hope it's gone by tomorrow.
The point is it is INSANE to try and mediate and police this stuff.
Nobody is trying to police it, they're just ensuring there are consequences for acting like a little shit when you're representing an organization. That's not mediation or police work, that's capitalism working as intended.
FOR ONCE amirite or amirite?! Haha #jokes #civilthread
It's not working
Of course not, hashtags never achieved anything.
God this thread made me hate Starcraft for a day. Let's hope it's gone by tomorrow.
The point is it is INSANE to try and mediate and police this stuff.
Nobody is trying to police it, they're just ensuring there are consequences for acting like a little shit when you're representing an organization. That's not mediation or police work, that's capitalism working as intended.
FOR ONCE amirite or amirite?! Haha #jokes #civilthread
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
I'm not the first one to be a dick, ever, NonY, that's my one policy - its you who went and made ridiculous accusations and I responded, sorry that's how I choose to deal with the situation, that's my first insitinct and that's what I'll continue to do, cause i'm not a hypocrite, you can write essays about how shady I am and say we're cheating, talk about conspiracy and expect me to sit quietly? Maybe it would be the professional thing to do, maybe i'm not professional, well shame on me. not go and post stupid shit elsewhere and then come back and make Gandhi-like posts about improving the community, im not about to list what I have or haven't done for this game, clearly, I dislike you and you dislike me, the "lets all get along and be nice to each other" message coming from you bothers me a lot, for obvious reasons, more-so when the TL thread's about RuFF getting kicked out for being a dick to one of my teammates and best friends.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
I'm not the first one to be a dick, ever, NonY, that's my one policy - its you who went and made ridiculous accusations and I responded, sorry that's how I choose to deal with the situation, that's my first insitinct and that's what I'll continue to do, cause i'm not a hypocrite, you can write essays about how shady I am and say we're cheating, talk about conspiracy and expect me to sit quietly? Maybe it would be the professional thing to do, maybe i'm not professional, well shame on me. not go and post stupid shit elsewhere and then come back and make Gandhi-like posts about improving the community, im not about to list what I have or haven't done for this game, clearly, I dislike you and you dislike me, the "lets all get along and be nice to each other" message coming from you bothers me a lot, for obvious reasons, more-so when the TL thread's about RuFF getting kicked out for being a dick to one of my teammates and best friends.
NONY IS GANDHI?
That is wonderful. Thank you for lightening the situation. CatZ and NonY are two of my favorite players and it sucks to see them arguing all the time ;_;
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
Usually people who BM seem to just really be angry with themselves and are venting, saying "imba" or "fuck off" or whatever, which won't get them kicked from a team as far as I'm aware. Making them angry by offensive gg'ing the next game is just fun, not really eye for an eye, and if they take that and then do something like what ruff did then fuck em, good riddance. Adults should be able to show some self control, and hell, they shouldn't be thinking things like "I better insult this kid about his serious disease, that'll get him" in the first place. If they do think those things then I'm glad people are there to troll them and get them to reveal how fucked they are.
Ummmmm...
Ummm what? An eye for an eye, meaning to get someone back for wronging you. Someone venting "at" me isn't wronging me, so can't be called an eye for an eye. I'm also not out of control when I offensive gg someone whose blabbering about imbalances or whatever, care to bold out any more of what I said? I'll try to explain it the best I can to you.
I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to offend you (There is enough of that in this thread), I just don't see the point in offensive gg's and the like. I mean, sure, it is among the least offensive thing you can do (comparatively), and is obviously far better than calling someone out for their disease or using racial slurs. I just think that in the sense where you say ''people who BM are seem to just be really angry with themselves,'' doing something like an offensive GG is just adding fuel to the fire. If they should have the self control to not BM in the first place, shouldn't you have the self control not to antagonize, no matter how mildly?
And again, this is just my opinion, and it's pretty clear that this thread is pretty heated, so I am just going to say that it is totally fine if you disagree with me.
I mean, they probably could find a more healthy way of venting anger, but people who vent anger with "regular" BM aren't the people who I was talking about. I meant people should have the self control to not say things that will clearly hurt the person they're talking to and clearly not be taken well by their sponsors. I rarely offensive gg but the point is to fuel the fire, which is kind of funny to me, so it's not as if I'm out of control. It gives me a good laugh to offensive gg and it makes them a little angrier, big whoop.
On June 16 2014 15:03 Darkhorse wrote: Did you make that just now or do you have secret photoshops of every progamer as Gandhi for just such an occasion?
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
Sexism is okay, racism is not.
Got it. Take note SC2 pro gamers.
Are you going to publish a list of bannable BM, or just ban people as you see fit? Is there a process or is just based on your mood?
Pro's need to know, their careers are at stake.
Calling someone a dick would also be sexism. Or a pussy, a bitch, etc...
On June 16 2014 15:03 Darkhorse wrote: Did you make that just now or do you have secret photoshops of every progamer as Gandhi for just such an occasion?
The second one
It was hard work but someone had to do it.
I admire your dedication and emergency preparedness
On June 16 2014 04:27 LongShot27 wrote: "I dunno what other punishment they'd have for him."
A month's suspension seems appropriate
If a player on my team ever said something like that he'd be out on the street in a heartbeat. All these ideas of made-up punishments are irrelevant. It seems appropriate? Based on what, your expert knowledge of running Starcraft 2 teams? That's as arbitrary as anything else. Hey here's an idea, ya got a cancer in your team, cut it out and move on before it kills you.
I'm not wasting my time on someone who refuses to consider other peoples opinions or points.
You don't have any opinions or points, you just made up a random number and thought that was a valuable post in some way. Why not 3 weeks suspension? Why not 5? Why not 2 months? Tell me, which is most appropriate?
Reality check: Opinions are totally worthless unless you have something to back them up with, whether it be reputation, experience or preferably, some actual reasoning or evidence to support your argument. Oh you have an opinion? How very not special, every has opinions. Other things everyone has, the ability to breath. Do you want me to applaud you for breathing? HEY CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DID THIS THING EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO! WHOOOOOOO!!!
Earn your respect by posting something interesting. Opinions are the most common thing in the world and appropriately also the least valuable. Distinguish yours from others by making it interesting and arguing your point, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and stamping your feed when somebody calls you out on your vapid point.
Oh look, starting to yell at someone to get yourself more attention because someone refuses to acknowledge you. How very original of you.
Could you lay off of total biscuit? The guy is a cancer patient and if you think that Ruff's comments didn't offend him either, you're wrong. Adding to that, he is only being realistic.
It'd be alot easier to lay off him if there weren't so many dickriders in this thread. You get me?
PS: Being a cancer patient doesn't excuse a person of certain power and persuasion from publicly decrying a player that has already even admitted to crying as a result of his actions. Where I'M from that's called using your illness to take advantage of situations - in this case, taking advantage of your status and your medical history to make sure that Ruff has no second chances.
I just found out who you are, TotalBiscuit. I used to watch your show on youtube. Dat public appereance. On your WTF IS... you seem like the kind of dude people want to invite over for a beer and a joint. But, like Michael Jordan, you're just a douchebag taking advantage of your position to berrate people and whine at the system (yeah, I also saw your whiny video about the industry.)
Fuck you, man.
Take a page from Nony's book. I took his post as a subtle FUCK YOU to someone. But, no one batted an eye because it was done in a professional manner.
...I'm out of this thread before I get banned again. >.<
User was temp banned for this post.
As usual, we see that many of the people that dislike me are the people nobody would want as fans to begin with.
TB, can I ask why this post is necessary. You actually wasted a minute of your time and everyone else's to go: "Oh hey look, this guy got temp banned I'm going to rub his nose in it."
TB is different- the rules don't apply to him. If I've learned nothing on TL in the last 4 years its that TB is always going to get his cake and eat it too. Best to let him have his fun. What goes around comes around.
On June 16 2014 15:08 Joedaddy wrote: TB is different- the rules don't apply to him. If I've learned nothing on TL in the last 4 years its that TB is always going to get his cake and eat it too. Best to let him have his fun. What goes around comes around.
The rules apply just fine, since some of us know the difference between constructive criticism and shitposting.
On June 16 2014 15:03 Darkhorse wrote: Did you make that just now or do you have secret photoshops of every progamer as Gandhi for just such an occasion?
The second one
It was hard work but someone had to do it.
Please release all pictures in a blog, hide it well enough that it doesnt circulate on reddit, though.
This thread is pretty interesting to read, but totally got off topic from what I'm seeing.
With that said; Its unfortunate that things happened this way, and a player lost his position on a team. I agree with the decision to drop Ruff, however, as he has always been somewhat of a rager on ladder and it doesnt seem to be changing.
But with action taken and an apology written, I dont see reason to berate Ruff any further. But I'm glad the situation (not the thread) was handled professionally.
On June 16 2014 15:08 Joedaddy wrote: TB is different- the rules don't apply to him. If I've learned nothing on TL in the last 4 years its that TB is always going to get his cake and eat it too. Best to let him have his fun. What goes around comes around.
The rules apply just fine, since some of us know the difference between constructive criticism and shitposting.
Or have a talent for coasting just along the line whilst still being on the side of constructive criticism. :p
On June 16 2014 15:08 Joedaddy wrote: TB is different- the rules don't apply to him. If I've learned nothing on TL in the last 4 years its that TB is always going to get his cake and eat it too. Best to let him have his fun. What goes around comes around.
The rules apply just fine, since some of us know the difference between constructive criticism and shitposting.
You like to play on the line between the two, admit it
I'm sure the day Totalbiscuit doesn't kill esports will be a glorious day. Maybe he'll run a tournament or even pick up his own Esports team! How wondrous it is to imagine that
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
I'm not the first one to be a dick, ever, NonY, that's my one policy - its you who went and made ridiculous accusations and I responded, sorry that's how I choose to deal with the situation, that's my first insitinct and that's what I'll continue to do, cause i'm not a hypocrite, you can write essays about how shady I am and say we're cheating, talk about conspiracy and expect me to sit quietly? Maybe it would be the professional thing to do, maybe i'm not professional, well shame on me. not go and post stupid shit elsewhere and then come back and make Gandhi-like posts about improving the community, im not about to list what I have or haven't done for this game, clearly, I dislike you and you dislike me, the "lets all get along and be nice to each other" message coming from you bothers me a lot, for obvious reasons, more-so when the TL thread's about RuFF getting kicked out for being a dick to one of my teammates and best friends.
You make false accusations of hacking and streamcheating very frequently on the ladder. You have a big following on your stream so I would consider that pretty public. You cannot say that you are not a hypocrite when using your example.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
I'm not the first one to be a dick, ever, NonY, that's my one policy - its you who went and made ridiculous accusations and I responded, sorry that's how I choose to deal with the situation, that's my first insitinct and that's what I'll continue to do, cause i'm not a hypocrite, you can write essays about how shady I am and say we're cheating, talk about conspiracy and expect me to sit quietly? Maybe it would be the professional thing to do, maybe i'm not professional, well shame on me. not go and post stupid shit elsewhere and then come back and make Gandhi-like posts about improving the community, im not about to list what I have or haven't done for this game, clearly, I dislike you and you dislike me, the "lets all get along and be nice to each other" message coming from you bothers me a lot, for obvious reasons, more-so when the TL thread's about RuFF getting kicked out for being a dick to one of my teammates and best friends.
You make false accusations of hacking and streamcheating very frequently on the ladder. You have a big following on your stream so I would consider that pretty public. You cannot say that you are not a hypocrite when using your example.
I've accussed you twice, wrongly, and both times and times I've played you after that and said I was wrong many times, either way, you have a weird playstyle and I did think you might hack, I've watched the replays and seen that you didn't and said so plenty. Either way, you have a point - no one's perfect, and I'd be lying if I said I am happy to admit when I am wrong, but at least I do it anyway.
I'm giving you some shit, but you are the greatest thing about SC2.
Hanging with the homies!!!! <3
You know what they say, with great power comes great responsibility.
So, I love you, but I think you may have dropped the hammer too hard on Ruff. He's just some village idiot who got in the way of the TB train.
I view it as taking a public stand against vile and despicable behavior, leading by example. If the perpetrator also happens to get run over in the process, that's just a bonus.
We can add it to the list! Other things I have been criticized for this week.
Donating to Miniguns fund-raiser
Donating to Supernovas stream
Buying food and blankets for defenseless abandoned baby kittens*
(* may not have happened, example for purely demonstrative purposes, totalbiscuit may be fed up with this shit)
I'm giving you some shit, but you are the greatest thing about SC2.
Hanging with the homies!!!! <3
You know what they say, with great power comes great responsibility.
So, I love you, but I think you may have dropped the hammer too hard on Ruff. He's just some village idiot who got in the way of the TB train.
I view it as taking a public stand against vile and despicable behavior, leading by example. If the perpetrator also happens to get run over in the process, that's just a bonus.
We can add it to the list! Other things I have been criticized for this week.
Donating to Miniguns fund-raiser
Donating to Supernovas stream
Buying food and blankets for defenseless abandoned baby kittens*
(* may not have happened, example for purely demonstrative purposes, totalbiscuit may be fed up with this shit)
I adopted like three orphans and gave 4,000,000 US$ to Sudanese refugee relief organizations last friday.
I'm giving you some shit, but you are the greatest thing about SC2.
Hanging with the homies!!!! <3
You know what they say, with great power comes great responsibility.
So, I love you, but I think you may have dropped the hammer too hard on Ruff. He's just some village idiot who got in the way of the TB train.
I think there are a great many e-sports personalities, players and managers alike, who are prone to running off at the mouth when their tempers get the best of them. TB has had plenty of his own episodes where he loses his mind and acts like a child. Lucky for him and everyone else that they weren't treated the same way as Ruff for it.
I'm giving you some shit, but you are the greatest thing about SC2.
Hanging with the homies!!!! <3
You know what they say, with great power comes great responsibility.
So, I love you, but I think you may have dropped the hammer too hard on Ruff. He's just some village idiot who got in the way of the TB train.
I think there are a great many e-sports personalities, players and managers alike, who are prone to running off at the mouth when their tempers get the best of them. TB has had plenty of his own episodes where he loses his mind and acts like a child. Lucky for him and everyone else that they weren't treated the same way as Ruff for it.
I'm giving you some shit, but you are the greatest thing about SC2.
Hanging with the homies!!!! <3
You know what they say, with great power comes great responsibility.
So, I love you, but I think you may have dropped the hammer too hard on Ruff. He's just some village idiot who got in the way of the TB train.
I think there are a great many e-sports personalities, players and managers alike, who are prone to running off at the mouth when their tempers get the best of them. TB has had plenty of his own episodes where he loses his mind and acts like a child. Lucky for him and everyone else that they weren't treated the same way as Ruff for it.
I sense there may be a chip on your shoulder.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy when and where I see it =)
No one is perfect, and if we went on a witch hunt every time someone said something mean and hurtful there wouldn't be very many of us left.
The only difference between Ruff and TB is that Ruff said the wrong thing to a guy most of us absolutely love. Had he said something similar to a random person we'd never heard of (like TB does) he'd still have a team.
I'm giving you some shit, but you are the greatest thing about SC2.
Hanging with the homies!!!! <3
You know what they say, with great power comes great responsibility.
So, I love you, but I think you may have dropped the hammer too hard on Ruff. He's just some village idiot who got in the way of the TB train.
I view it as taking a public stand against vile and despicable behavior, leading by example. If the perpetrator also happens to get run over in the process, that's just a bonus.
We can add it to the list! Other things I have been criticized for this week.
Donating to Miniguns fund-raiser
Donating to Supernovas stream
Buying food and blankets for defenseless abandoned baby kittens*
(* may not have happened, example for purely demonstrative purposes, totalbiscuit may be fed up with this shit)
Reported for not buying food and blankets for defenseless abandoned baby kittens.
And what about abandoned 'baby kittens' with a marginal level of defence? What is this bullshit? Are they not feline to you? When you stroke their neck, do they not purr like you or I?
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
I'm not the first one to be a dick, ever, NonY, that's my one policy - its you who went and made ridiculous accusations and I responded, sorry that's how I choose to deal with the situation, that's my first insitinct and that's what I'll continue to do, cause i'm not a hypocrite, you can write essays about how shady I am and say we're cheating, talk about conspiracy and expect me to sit quietly? Maybe it would be the professional thing to do, maybe i'm not professional, well shame on me. not go and post stupid shit elsewhere and then come back and make Gandhi-like posts about improving the community, im not about to list what I have or haven't done for this game, clearly, I dislike you and you dislike me, the "lets all get along and be nice to each other" message coming from you bothers me a lot, for obvious reasons, more-so when the TL thread's about RuFF getting kicked out for being a dick to one of my teammates and best friends.
You make false accusations of hacking and streamcheating very frequently on the ladder. You have a big following on your stream so I would consider that pretty public. You cannot say that you are not a hypocrite when using your example.
I've accussed you twice, wrongly, and both times and times I've played you after that and said I was wrong many times, either way, you have a weird playstyle and I did think you might hack, I've watched the replays and seen that you didn't and said so plenty. Either way, you have a point - no one's perfect, and I'd be lying if I said I am happy to admit when I am wrong, but at least I do it anyway.
On June 16 2014 14:00 DinosaurJones wrote: Someone in a position of prominence is more likely to be punished, because like it or not, they have to be held to a higher standard and walk on eggshells.
Well no they just need to not run around calling people niggers or doling out extremely personal insults. It's really not that hard, seriously
So,
N-word: not okay C-word: okay because it's normal in Australia
C-word ok because it's not considered extremely racist across most of the planet too, that's a plus.
I dunno, cuz I was listening to some rap music by Jay-Z and Kanye West and they both used the word like more than five times each, and people be like "Hov and Ye are the shit"
You may have noticed the colour of their skin....
Whatever the case it's a pretty silly comparison. If todays incident proved anything, curse words are not required to make personally hurtful remarks.
(Let's not rehash..) Surely you don't believe that the color of someone's skin gives them a right to say a word that other people aren't allowed to say. Let's be clear on that. An argument can be made for "artistic liberties" or whatever rationalization there may be for using it in a rap song, however.
Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
So Ruff needs to stop playing SC2?
If he can't control himself well enough to make unjustified personal attacks, then probably.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
I'm not the first one to be a dick, ever, NonY, that's my one policy - its you who went and made ridiculous accusations and I responded, sorry that's how I choose to deal with the situation, that's my first insitinct and that's what I'll continue to do, cause i'm not a hypocrite, you can write essays about how shady I am and say we're cheating, talk about conspiracy and expect me to sit quietly? Maybe it would be the professional thing to do, maybe i'm not professional, well shame on me. not go and post stupid shit elsewhere and then come back and make Gandhi-like posts about improving the community, im not about to list what I have or haven't done for this game, clearly, I dislike you and you dislike me, the "lets all get along and be nice to each other" message coming from you bothers me a lot, for obvious reasons, more-so when the TL thread's about RuFF getting kicked out for being a dick to one of my teammates and best friends.
You make false accusations of hacking and streamcheating very frequently on the ladder. You have a big following on your stream so I would consider that pretty public. You cannot say that you are not a hypocrite when using your example.
I've accussed you twice, wrongly, and both times and times I've played you after that and said I was wrong many times, either way, you have a weird playstyle and I did think you might hack, I've watched the replays and seen that you didn't and said so plenty. Either way, you have a point - no one's perfect, and I'd be lying if I said I am happy to admit when I am wrong, but at least I do it anyway.
spades is waiting for his apology too
Wat. (I mean, he was proven without a shadow of a doubt by more then just catz, wasnt he. -_-)
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
I agree, it'd be nice if people admited when they were wrong and what not and didn't create drama where there isn't drama to be had, false accusations are stupid, for example - especially when made publicly and not privately, I also think people who do that sort of thing should apologize, so that we can all get along.
=/ Man now you're really testing my patience. This is exactly what I'm talking about with people acting with bad intentions while not crossing any lines. It is obvious that you haven't written that post in an attempt to improve the community or improve any particular situation or relationship or anything. You saw an opportunity to prod at me and you took it. That's it.
You offer nothing new, just more of the "isn't it crazy what nony is saying now? what a crazy and absurd guy let's all laugh at his ridiculous ideas" without actually saying anything of substance. I think it's absurd that you guys don't know how to operate b.net's friends list and you think it's absurd that I think you and/or Destiny would mess with me like that. I don't even know why you'd want an apology from me since you seem to revel in the conflict. No ROOT fan ceased being a ROOT fan because of my accusation, instead I got added to a list of players they like to heckle, following your lead.
If you really want to improve the situation, then just behave professionally. Your little stunt (and I do mean little -- I'm not making a big deal out of it) joining my game lobby vs vibe and writing a message is just the kind of thing that doesn't help anything at all. And now you poke your nose in here, not to contribute to the discussion about what's best for the community, but to poke at me when I just got finished saying how worthless and despicable such pokes are. Just drop it and behave professionally.
I'm not the first one to be a dick, ever, NonY, that's my one policy - its you who went and made ridiculous accusations and I responded, sorry that's how I choose to deal with the situation, that's my first insitinct and that's what I'll continue to do, cause i'm not a hypocrite, you can write essays about how shady I am and say we're cheating, talk about conspiracy and expect me to sit quietly? Maybe it would be the professional thing to do, maybe i'm not professional, well shame on me. not go and post stupid shit elsewhere and then come back and make Gandhi-like posts about improving the community, im not about to list what I have or haven't done for this game, clearly, I dislike you and you dislike me, the "lets all get along and be nice to each other" message coming from you bothers me a lot, for obvious reasons, more-so when the TL thread's about RuFF getting kicked out for being a dick to one of my teammates and best friends.
You make false accusations of hacking and streamcheating very frequently on the ladder. You have a big following on your stream so I would consider that pretty public. You cannot say that you are not a hypocrite when using your example.
I've accussed you twice, wrongly, and both times and times I've played you after that and said I was wrong many times, either way, you have a weird playstyle and I did think you might hack, I've watched the replays and seen that you didn't and said so plenty. Either way, you have a point - no one's perfect, and I'd be lying if I said I am happy to admit when I am wrong, but at least I do it anyway.
spades is waiting for his apology too
Wat. (I mean, he was proven without a shadow of a doubt by more then just catz, wasnt he. -_-)
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
So Ruff needs to stop playing SC2?
If he can't control himself well enough to make unjustified personal attacks, then probably.
What good is that going to do? He already apologized and lost his sponsorship, but that's not enough for you?
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
So Ruff needs to stop playing SC2?
If he can't control himself well enough to make unjustified personal attacks, then probably.
What good is that going to do? He already apologized and lost his sponsorship, but that's not enough for you?
Wouldn't be sc2 community if you didn't kick someone when they're down and bring a few friends along to help.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
So Ruff needs to stop playing SC2?
If he can't control himself well enough to make unjustified personal attacks, then probably.
What good is that going to do? He already apologized and lost his sponsorship, but that's not enough for you?
Huh? Where did I say that wasn't good enough for me?
Honestly if minigun really did poke around in the chat etc, I don't see why he should be free of any punishment and act he is all innocent or stand in.higher moral ground. Case like this isn't about punishing the one who made a worse statement/mistake. It's about punishing where punishment is due.
On June 16 2014 16:46 ETisME wrote: Honestly if minigun really did poke around in the chat etc, I don't see why he should be free of any punishment and act he is all innocent or stand in.higher moral ground. Case like this isn't about punishing the one who made a worse statement/mistake. It's about punishing where punishment is due.
It's been told multiple times I wasn't in his chat. I have done nothing that even close to justify's what he said.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
Who said I can't take advice as well? I should have controlled myself and went behind the scenes instead of posting it to the public. I haven't argued otherwise.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
What difference does it make? Both players were streaming AFAIK... it was already "in public".
Besides, it's not like minigun asked for him to be kicked out of his team, his tweet was basically "look, ruff is a dick".
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
Who said I can't take advice as well? I should have controlled myself and went behind the scenes instead of posting it to the public. I haven't argued otherwise.
Then, why did you post in this thread talking about him and control, you already got your point across and punishment has been handed down. There's no need to continue throwing more kindling on a wildfire.........
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
Who said I can't take advice as well? I should have controlled myself and went behind the scenes instead of posting it to the public. I haven't argued otherwise.
Then, why did you post in this thread talking about him and control, you already got your point across and punishment has been handed down. There's no need to continue throwing more kindling on a wildfire.........
I can't have a single post in the thread explaining my end?
What's done is done, I think its best to drop it, since there's basically two sides of this argument and none of them will concede their view point ever. Punishment was dealt to a person who deserved it, and people's view points were made. We can probably just move on now.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
Who said I can't take advice as well? I should have controlled myself and went behind the scenes instead of posting it to the public. I haven't argued otherwise.
Then, why did you post in this thread talking about him and control, you already got your point across and punishment has been handed down. There's no need to continue throwing more kindling on a wildfire.........
I can't have a single post in the thread explaining my end?
Do what you gotta do, just keep in mind the consequences. This community is relentless when pitchforking.
Let me just state that people should think twice before speaking their asses off here. TB might sound overly aggresive to some of you, but real life diseases we are talking about here makes you stop closing eyes before random harmful insults such as Ruff's comment you would otherwise let go. So get some perspective and real view on things before judging and arguing.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
Who said I can't take advice as well? I should have controlled myself and went behind the scenes instead of posting it to the public. I haven't argued otherwise.
Then, why did you post in this thread talking about him and control, you already got your point across and punishment has been handed down. There's no need to continue throwing more kindling on a wildfire.........
I can't have a single post in the thread explaining my end?
On June 16 2014 11:44 NonY wrote: The team's gotta do what it's gotta do, that's fine, but I'm concerned about the culture in our community when it comes to ragers. I have way more patience with a guy who rages while losing than the smug and cruel people who poke the ragers and abuse them and laugh at them. You can't hate ragers for raging while also contributing to their rage. There are a lot of players who try to be good people in general but lose themselves sometimes and cross the line. And there are also a lot of people who know exactly where the line is and have complete control of themselves and are as big of assholes as they can get away with, especially to the ragers. It'd be nice if everyone tried to be productive and helpful, and not see every guy who crosses the line as an opportunity to be hateful and get away with it.
I'm not saying ruff and minigun are examples of either end of the spectrum. I'm just using this latest drama as an opportunity to point out this reality. Ruff doesn't deserve to be a punching bag because of this one comment and everyone who ever prodded him on for their own amusement is partially responsible. I used to think people should take a laugh whenever they can get it, but sometimes it's just too selfish and a fellow human being deserves more than being laughed at for their shortcomings.
completely agree with everything. And as someone who often goes full retard after losing and flames i hope my opponents understand as i do that most bullshit said right after a loss is just to vent and that i think none of it, and i feel bad about it later on everytime.
I can't stand players that pretend to be manner in public say gg every time they lose but then try to push your buttons with their actions or the way they play and sometimes even by just doing things like manner mules, who the fuck is it that decided that this was fine but not saying gg is not. So i complete disagreement with a lot of those things i have decided not to write gg anymore after losing a game EVER and rather to congratulate my opponents later on with a message or if offline a handshake.
There are players that think that the fact i also dont chat ( so no gl aswell ) in start of games is because i'm bm or i don't like them but really it's just because i must have add and forgot my gameplan a million times after geting too chatty early on in games and went on autopilot with my build.
Anyway what RuFF said is obviously pretty bad and i'm not saying he was punished too harshly, what i can tell u is that i and many others have said much worse and we obviously didnt mean it so i hope it will be left at that and there will be no more bashing from anybody.
Well, long time no drama. Pretty badly mannered from both. Why not contact the Teammanager is they have such a history. The surly could supsended him and talk to him.
On June 16 2014 11:44 NonY wrote: The team's gotta do what it's gotta do, that's fine, but I'm concerned about the culture in our community when it comes to ragers. I have way more patience with a guy who rages while losing than the smug and cruel people who poke the ragers and abuse them and laugh at them. You can't hate ragers for raging while also contributing to their rage. There are a lot of players who try to be good people in general but lose themselves sometimes and cross the line. And there are also a lot of people who know exactly where the line is and have complete control of themselves and are as big of assholes as they can get away with, especially to the ragers. It'd be nice if everyone tried to be productive and helpful, and not see every guy who crosses the line as an opportunity to be hateful and get away with it.
I'm not saying ruff and minigun are examples of either end of the spectrum. I'm just using this latest drama as an opportunity to point out this reality. Ruff doesn't deserve to be a punching bag because of this one comment and everyone who ever prodded him on for their own amusement is partially responsible. I used to think people should take a laugh whenever they can get it, but sometimes it's just too selfish and a fellow human being deserves more than being laughed at for their shortcomings.
i have decided not to write gg anymore after losing a game EVER
On June 16 2014 11:44 NonY wrote: The team's gotta do what it's gotta do, that's fine, but I'm concerned about the culture in our community when it comes to ragers. I have way more patience with a guy who rages while losing than the smug and cruel people who poke the ragers and abuse them and laugh at them. You can't hate ragers for raging while also contributing to their rage. There are a lot of players who try to be good people in general but lose themselves sometimes and cross the line. And there are also a lot of people who know exactly where the line is and have complete control of themselves and are as big of assholes as they can get away with, especially to the ragers. It'd be nice if everyone tried to be productive and helpful, and not see every guy who crosses the line as an opportunity to be hateful and get away with it.
I'm not saying ruff and minigun are examples of either end of the spectrum. I'm just using this latest drama as an opportunity to point out this reality. Ruff doesn't deserve to be a punching bag because of this one comment and everyone who ever prodded him on for their own amusement is partially responsible. I used to think people should take a laugh whenever they can get it, but sometimes it's just too selfish and a fellow human being deserves more than being laughed at for their shortcomings.
Wow, didn't expect to encounter some actual wisdom in this thread. Quoting this because it's a must-read.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
Who said I can't take advice as well? I should have controlled myself and went behind the scenes instead of posting it to the public. I haven't argued otherwise.
One would say you should then go ahead and apologize to Ruff for not handling it correctly. Just saying, to keep it fair. I admit my thinking is twisted here.. :p
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
Who said I can't take advice as well? I should have controlled myself and went behind the scenes instead of posting it to the public. I haven't argued otherwise.
One would say you should then go ahead and apologize to Ruff for not handling it correctly. Just saying, to keep it fair. I admit my thinking is twisted here.. :p
I agree with Nony's point, also this faux outrage that occurs over every morally questionable thing that the famous and influential do has really seeped into this scene. We're no better than E News and the likes these days , 25 page thread on Ruff, really?
That said, I also feel he was in the wrong and Minigun was right to stick screenshots up there.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
Who said I can't take advice as well? I should have controlled myself and went behind the scenes instead of posting it to the public. I haven't argued otherwise.
One would say you should then go ahead and apologize to Ruff for not handling it correctly. Just saying, to keep it fair. I admit my thinking is twisted here.. :p
Yeah that is definitely not going to happen.
I know, don't worry man. Good luck fighting your health issues! Showing mercy is also a way to handle the tension.
LOL american SC2 scene =D The English invented chess boxing, you guys should totally invent SC2 Wrestling. Instead of folding chairs there will be spare keyboards stashed under the main stage to beat each other up with =D
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
Who said I can't take advice as well? I should have controlled myself and went behind the scenes instead of posting it to the public. I haven't argued otherwise.
One would say you should then go ahead and apologize to Ruff for not handling it correctly. Just saying, to keep it fair. I admit my thinking is twisted here.. :p
I don't think it's twisted at all. If he truly felt he handled it poorly, then he should simply man up and say sorry and take responsibility for his actions. It's not about shifting blame or making things "even", it's about taking responsibility for yourself and your actions and it's about empathy. No reason to demonize or doom someone just because you feel hurt, someday you'll be on that side of the fence and you'll certainly be thankful if the other person shares this philosophy.
Speaking of empathy and community, it seems like minigun has received a lot of it from it. I like to hope that that kind of positive action/thinking comes around full circle, instead of using the medium he received so much kindness from to be used maliciously instead.
TLDR: We all do stupid shit because we're ppl. So realize that, hug it out, and not bring each other down for it, especially after we can admit we're sorry for it. My 2 cents
So, he insulted Minigun and got kicked from his team. Who are we to judge anyways, since we're not at all involved. It's up to Minigun and Ruff to sort things out personally, and up to Ruff's team and Ruff himself how he's going to pursue his professional gaming career.
Really? You are joking me.... He got kicked from a team for saying "go beg for more money sick boy ^^" not even a curse word was used.. it was clearly just an emotional response to losing the game... I then read that the dude cried when he got kicked?.. doesn't seem like an asshole to me, just very emotional...
Then later, I learn that Ruff has a mental disability?.... i just lost all respect for everyone here backing lvD... i feel bad for you Ruff.. I didn't know who you were before this, but I'm sorry that the sc2 community breeds hate like this, no wonder some of it can rub off on you... Hope you get better and get some rebound on another team! You didn't deserve to be treated like this!
On June 16 2014 20:51 MagnuMizer wrote: Really? You are joking me.... He got kicked from a team for saying "go beg for more money sick boy ^^" not even a curse word was used..
On June 16 2014 20:51 MagnuMizer wrote: Really? You are joking me.... He got kicked from a team for saying "go beg for more money sick boy ^^" not even a curse word was used.. it was clearly just an emotional response to losing the game... I then read that the dude cried when he got kicked?.. doesn't seem like an asshole to me, just very emotional...
Then later, I learn that Ruff has a mental disability?.... i just lost all respect for everyone here backing lvD... i feel bad for you Ruff.. I didn't know who you were before this, but I'm sorry that the sc2 community breeds hate like this, no wonder some of it can rub off on you... Hope you get better and get some rebound on another team! You didn't deserve to be treated like this!
I wasn't aware mental disabilities had anything to do with being a cunt. If that's the case I'm claiming mental disability next time I rage quit.
On June 16 2014 20:51 MagnuMizer wrote: Really? You are joking me.... He got kicked from a team for saying "go beg for more money sick boy ^^" not even a curse word was used..
On June 16 2014 20:51 MagnuMizer wrote: Really? You are joking me.... He got kicked from a team for saying "go beg for more money sick boy ^^" not even a curse word was used.. it was clearly just an emotional response to losing the game... I then read that the dude cried when he got kicked?.. doesn't seem like an asshole to me, just very emotional...
Then later, I learn that Ruff has a mental disability?.... i just lost all respect for everyone here backing lvD... i feel bad for you Ruff.. I didn't know who you were before this, but I'm sorry that the sc2 community breeds hate like this, no wonder some of it can rub off on you... Hope you get better and get some rebound on another team! You didn't deserve to be treated like this!
What is wrong with you? He clearly made the 'sick boy' comment specifically to hurt Minigun
Tough scenario. Good to see everyone involved end up treating the issue with such maturity. It's rare to see teams and players take such accountability for their actions. I hope most of all that these situations stop happening altogether, but dealing with what's in front of them, I think these actions/apologies from IvD/Ruff were quite meaningful.
If someone should quit SC2, it's people who take any consequences from one sentence written in the chat. Does one comment online change Minigun's life? I really doubt so (and if it does, he should really reconsider his priorites). Does what Minigun did change Ruff's life? Indeed it does.
If I were a high-visibility person, I would never go and publicly bitch online that someone ruffed my feathers with a stupid oneliner, because I would feel like an idiot for helping ruin someone else's life because he wasn't "sensitive" enough with me. OK, Minigun has a serious disease, but the disease is not allergy to particular text on the screen.
Just grow some fucking skin people, this is like the 10000th time the same shit happens in SC2, where someone says a couple "inapropriate" words and everybody jumps in to show their personal greatness by needlessly punishing them for it.
If I was in Minigun's position I would have blown this up even bigger considering what he has been going through. There are certain arguments where being a polemic is a GOOD thing. Arguing the actions Ruff took, and has always taken (if the majority of you random forum posters were unaware..), should be open to scrutiny/public display and so on is an a given. To say otherwise is just an excuse because you are scared to hurt someone's feelings. Sorry, but that isn't a good enough reason to prevent you from calling them out. And for your clarification: hurting someone's feelings because you call their bullshit out is much different than someone making light of an individuals life/medical conditions. Ideas, reasoning, logic, and communication are all fair game.
I also have to add that regardless of whether someone has a mental disability or not there are certain standards you ought to be treating other individuals with. If you cannot do such things then you get what you have coming. This is why we have laws for such things.
In closing I will go ahead and say that from my experiences with Ruff I can only think of negative interactions. I may be biased, but I will be openly biased, I hope he either completely fixes his attitude from this lesson or quits competitive gaming. The way he has always treated other individuals is almost as bad as this and he openly accuses just about everyone he loses to of hacking. Such people should not lead any marketing efforts for any brand.
On June 16 2014 20:51 MagnuMizer wrote: Really? You are joking me.... He got kicked from a team for saying "go beg for more money sick boy ^^" not even a curse word was used..
in addition, you might want to read up on the background of IvD gaming: click me
Yeah okay, I didn't know he had cancer, jesus christ... Even still, I stand by what i said, that it was an emotional response and as he said himself, he didn't mean what he said... I understand now why he got kicked.. but still the drama level is a bit too high for me Hope minigun gets throught it alright, he definitely doesn't need comments like those :/
RuFF made a sincere apology, forgive and forget, less not forget he was fired and publicly humiliated. I understand minigun and his feelings were hurt, but they did have a history of disdain towards eachother. Digging through a replay to screen cap BM and essentially begging the community to bring out the pitchforks doesn't seem like the right thing to do, either.
That being said, any press is good press when bringing awareness to a disease. Wishing minigun a healthy lifestyle/recovery.
On June 16 2014 16:08 ROOTMinigun wrote: Sc2 is a very stressful game, no one likes to lose. People rage, that's fine, but IMO there is a line you don't cross. Ruff crossed that line. If you can't control yourself well enough to not completely thrash on someone, then you probably need some help, and need to stop playing sc2.
Well to each their own as well, everyone has their own belief on what they would define as control/rage/honesty/insensitive/over the line, you could just read through this thread if you don't believe that. Now jumping to a conclusion like he shouldn't play sc2 is just silly, not all problems in life stem from sc2 or correlate directly with sc2. It's unfortunate that he did drop that comment, but for the sake of punishment and appearance IVD did about as good of a job handling this as they could.
Only thing I'm wondering is why you didn't bring this up with IVD, tournies/organizers/sponsors that revolve around RuFF internally? By posting to the public you know what drama it will create with the following you hold, life situation, and fans of ROOT Gaming.
Well I'm pretty sure insulting someone with a chronic disease goes against everything his own team stood for. The owner himself has crohns disease. So in this case, the line is pretty clear.
I posted it to the public because I was hurt by the comment.
I understand why it was offensive and the line he crossed, it's just not a battle that effects me personally in any way so I'm attempting to state it with some perspective.
Even if you were hurt by his comment. you talk about controlling self as well. By posting to the public, you brought drama/hate at a person who you claim "needs some help." All that hate isn't exactly going to help the guy either. All I'm saying is there are better ways to handle these scenarios being in the professional position you are. You can't just dish advice and not be able to eat it yourself.
both players were streaming, 1000 ppl saw it....................................................................................................................
On June 16 2014 22:02 boxerfred wrote: This thread should be closed. An individual raged and started insulting, his team took immediate actions. The news have been spread.
God forbid people would be able to voice their opinions -- they may even br different that yours! That would be a terrible thing to allow!
On June 16 2014 20:51 MagnuMizer wrote: Really? You are joking me.... He got kicked from a team for saying "go beg for more money sick boy ^^" not even a curse word was used.. it was clearly just an emotional response to losing the game... I then read that the dude cried when he got kicked?.. doesn't seem like an asshole to me, just very emotional...
Then later, I learn that Ruff has a mental disability?.... i just lost all respect for everyone here backing lvD... i feel bad for you Ruff.. I didn't know who you were before this, but I'm sorry that the sc2 community breeds hate like this, no wonder some of it can rub off on you... Hope you get better and get some rebound on another team! You didn't deserve to be treated like this!
I don't feel sorry for Ruff at all really, he acted like a douche and got punished. The main reason I do not feel sorry for him though is it gives him an opportunity to get some perspective on things. Playing a mediocre RTS for some crappy NA team is not worth the energy or time. It should be the shove/push that some people need to do something more productive with their time.
On June 16 2014 20:51 MagnuMizer wrote: Really? You are joking me.... He got kicked from a team for saying "go beg for more money sick boy ^^" not even a curse word was used.. it was clearly just an emotional response to losing the game... I then read that the dude cried when he got kicked?.. doesn't seem like an asshole to me, just very emotional...
Then later, I learn that Ruff has a mental disability?.... i just lost all respect for everyone here backing lvD... i feel bad for you Ruff.. I didn't know who you were before this, but I'm sorry that the sc2 community breeds hate like this, no wonder some of it can rub off on you... Hope you get better and get some rebound on another team! You didn't deserve to be treated like this!
I don't feel sorry for Ruff at all really, he acted like a douche and got punished. The main reason I do not feel sorry for him though is it gives him an opportunity to get some perspective on things. Playing a mediocre RTS for some crappy NA team is not worth the energy or time. It should be the shove/push that some people need to do something more productive with their time.
So yeah, go to a bar and say to someone "I hope you get cancer". You'll probably get a beating, be kicked out of that bar, but that doesn't mean you cannot go to another bar and have fun. Ruff will always have the stigma of "what a fucktard" now, just as firecake has. Having a bad reputation in such a small scene (which still means roughly 10k people that do remember, maybe more?) sucks. That's what a sentence costs you. So, "moral high ground" my ass - everyone who's judging the shit out of Ruff is not on that moral high ground (including me, I guess). I read through the TB banter, and this is pretty much the definition of "unnecessary". Shots were fired, things were dealt with, so don't make this bigger as it is.
TL;DR
it's a shame to kick someone with crutches, yes. But in teh interwebz, people are going to the pillory way too fast. So leave those guys alone now, I guess Minigun and Ruff both have issues to deal with. No need to discuss here anymore.
On June 16 2014 12:30 knOxStarcraft wrote: Also I don't understand how it's so wrong to troll them. If they're going to be dicks then they're going to get treated accordingly.
Let's say there's a guy who losers his temper and says something inappropriate every 1 in 100 times he loses a game. He plays 30 games a day, loses 15 of them, so he says something bad about once a week. Now, depending on how people react and what kind of environment he's in, that rate can either go up or go down. There's no doubt in my mind that when people respond to venom with venom, that rate goes up. And it's not only that, but there are people who very clearly recognize a known rager and try to get them to rage just to laugh at their rage (and so their viewers can laugh too). In other words, there are people who purposely try to increase that rate. Let that influence happen over several years to an impressionable young kid, and you turn him into a guy who has a nasty comment at the end of nearly every loss.
Personally I block almost every rager I encounter while streaming. SC2 practice is not the time to try to help a guy with a rage problem, but I do my best to not feed his rage. I play the best I can to win the game, which is the most respectful thing I can do, and I simply say gg and leave if I've lost. I think these simple policies would go a long way toward improving the community if everyone who was capable of doing them actually did them. I haven't been doing this for long, but I've done it pretty consistently for a little while now and I'm gonna keep doing it for as long as I can.
There are some hopeless cases but there are also always some people who could either get worse or get better. It is absolutely ignorant to think you don't have some influence over the people you interact with and you ought to take responsibility for that influence. And with regard to the hopeless cases, I definitely think there's something immoral about abusing them just because they're incapable of contributing anything positive. If you have to cut them off then just cut them off, but don't ever abuse them. It's not like the abuse is punishment in hopes of rehabilitation... it's just eye for an eye bullshit. Or if you can't help it, and it's your own weakness that you can't help but get revenge on people who have wronged you, then at least admit it's a weakness and don't act like you're righteous.
Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
On June 16 2014 23:18 SirLanzealot wrote: Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
I doubt Esports teams (especially the smaller US based teams) would have money to do that. Medical bills are incredibly expensive.
While I hope that at some point Esports teams will have the means to provide their players with health insurance, I don't think it is feasible right now.
Most Esports teams are smaller than most start up businesses, there is no way they can provide health care. And the US has a bunch of health care options. But 90% of teams cannot afford to provide them and likely never will.
On June 16 2014 23:47 PrideNeverDie wrote: ridiculing a person who is begging for money is perfectly acceptable to me
These kids who disapprove of cancer victims asking for charity or SC2 players down on their luck asking for money to attend events. Clearly none of them every watched Bambi.
Also, when would it be ok to mock a homeless person begging for money? Whe would we not think that the person doing that was a heartless asshole?
On June 16 2014 23:47 PrideNeverDie wrote: ridiculing a person who is begging for money is perfectly acceptable to me
Let's hope you or a member of your family never find themselves 10s of thousands of dollars in debt because of an illness then shall we? I'm pretty sure Minigun never asked to go through that terrible ordeal in hospital that put him in that situation and actually stopped him doing his job and thus not getting any money for it. Nor did he ask a fan to set up a fundraiser for his medical bills.
The lack of empathy from some people in this thread sickens me, it really does.
On June 16 2014 23:18 SirLanzealot wrote: Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
Would you sign a person like Minigun with a known illness if you would be forced to pay his medical bills?
On June 16 2014 23:18 SirLanzealot wrote: Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
Most privately owned small businesses cannot afford to provide their employees with healthcare, so I doubt that any but the biggest NA teams would be capable of providing that benefit. It's expensive enough getting players to and from events and paying a salary.
As for RuFF, I generally agree with the vitriol. It is not hard to not say stupid shit like this when you are mad. There are dozens of other ways to rage in SC2 that don't involve making fun of someone for having a chronic illness. All he had to do was bitch about Protoss and no one would be batting an eye at the whole thing. But no, he chose to go this route because he knew it would be the most hurtful. There is premeditation inherent in that that doesn't just make everything go away with an apology or saying "Just kidding!"
I'm all for the pitchforking in cases like this because our society could do with a lot less people saying stupid hurtful shit just because they are mad.
On June 16 2014 23:18 SirLanzealot wrote: Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
Would you sign a person like Minigun with a known illness if you would be forced to pay his medical bills?
That's how medical insurance works. Insurance companies make money from people who doesn't go to the doctor regularly and it compensates with the ones go sick as the last ones are actually in a minimum percentage compared to the number of insurance members.
On June 16 2014 23:18 SirLanzealot wrote: Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
I'm all for the pitchforking in cases like this because our society could do with a lot less people saying stupid hurtful shit just because they are mad.
He was punished, and apologized. Pitchforking just seems like bullying. He paid a stiff price for what he said, which was obviously brought on by their past relationship on ladder, etc. He doesn't give excuses and accepted his firing/removal from the team. He obviously wanted to hurt miniguns feelings, and minigun certainly returned the favor with his tweet.
What else do you want? He hasn't really won anything in SC2, why do we need to spend 27 pages bashing the guy for an unflattering moment? I guess some enjoy to vent personal frustration when they notice something that strikes a personal chord, but I wish that forgiveness and maturity were a more prevailing theme.
On June 16 2014 20:51 MagnuMizer wrote: Really? You are joking me.... He got kicked from a team for saying "go beg for more money sick boy ^^" not even a curse word was used.. it was clearly just an emotional response to losing the game... I then read that the dude cried when he got kicked?.. doesn't seem like an asshole to me, just very emotional...
Then later, I learn that Ruff has a mental disability?.... i just lost all respect for everyone here backing lvD... i feel bad for you Ruff.. I didn't know who you were before this, but I'm sorry that the sc2 community breeds hate like this, no wonder some of it can rub off on you... Hope you get better and get some rebound on another team! You didn't deserve to be treated like this!
I don't feel sorry for Ruff at all really, he acted like a douche and got punished. The main reason I do not feel sorry for him though is it gives him an opportunity to get some perspective on things. Playing a mediocre RTS for some crappy NA team is not worth the energy or time. It should be the shove/push that some people need to do something more productive with their time.
So yeah, go to a bar and say to someone "I hope you get cancer". You'll probably get a beating, be kicked out of that bar, but that doesn't mean you cannot go to another bar and have fun. Ruff will always have the stigma of "what a fucktard" now, just as firecake has. Having a bad reputation in such a small scene (which still means roughly 10k people that do remember, maybe more?) sucks. That's what a sentence costs you. So, "moral high ground" my ass - everyone who's judging the shit out of Ruff is not on that moral high ground (including me, I guess). I read through the TB banter, and this is pretty much the definition of "unnecessary". Shots were fired, things were dealt with, so don't make this bigger as it is.
TL;DR
it's a shame to kick someone with crutches, yes. But in teh interwebz, people are going to the pillory way too fast. So leave those guys alone now, I guess Minigun and Ruff both have issues to deal with. No need to discuss here anymore.
As someone who is (somewhat) known in the competitive community he should have known better. Your analogy doesn't work because a public figure could not trash himself in a bar and go unnoticed.
On June 16 2014 23:18 SirLanzealot wrote: Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
Would you sign a person like Minigun with a known illness if you would be forced to pay his medical bills?
That's how medical insurance works. Insurance companies make money from people who doesn't go to the doctor regularly and it compensates with the ones go sick as the last ones are actually in a minimum percentage compared to the number of insurance members.
Yes, and if you have a known disease and go to a new insurance you are "allowed" to pay more.
And if you are the manager of an eSports team, you will not sign a person which has the high chance of requiring tens of thousands of dollars. Since that is such a large slice in your budget that you can simply not afford it. Or: it's better business to invest in other players, which don't suffer from such an illness. The risk:reward ratio is just skewed against Minigun (if eSport teams were forced to pay medical bills).
On June 16 2014 23:18 SirLanzealot wrote: Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
Would you sign a person like Minigun with a known illness if you would be forced to pay his medical bills?
That's how medical insurance works. Insurance companies make money from people who doesn't go to the doctor regularly and it compensates with the ones go sick as the last ones are actually in a minimum percentage compared to the number of insurance members.
Yes, and if you have a known disease and go to a new insurance you are "allowed" to pay more.
And if you are the manager of an eSports team, you will not sign a person which has the high chance of requiring tens of thousands of dollars. Since that is such a large slice in your budget that you can simply not afford it. Or: it's better business to invest in other players, which don't suffer from such an illness. The risk:reward ratio is just skewed against Minigun (if eSport teams were forced to pay medical bills).
They dont havwe to pay the bills, just provide medical insurance. Like most comapnies in the US do. Some of the tops teams probably are approaching the size at which by US law they HAVE to provide health insurance. I can imagine that if TL wanted to they could offer their players health insurance, even if that meant paying them slightly less. But these smaller teams probably can't afford it, many dont pay their players a living wage.
I'm sure if a member of TLpro did get sick, TL would help with medical bills, Nazgul is a nice guy.
On June 16 2014 23:18 SirLanzealot wrote: Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
Would you sign a person like Minigun with a known illness if you would be forced to pay his medical bills?
That's how medical insurance works. Insurance companies make money from people who doesn't go to the doctor regularly and it compensates with the ones go sick as the last ones are actually in a minimum percentage compared to the number of insurance members.
Yes, and if you have a known disease and go to a new insurance you are "allowed" to pay more.
And if you are the manager of an eSports team, you will not sign a person which has the high chance of requiring tens of thousands of dollars. Since that is such a large slice in your budget that you can simply not afford it. Or: it's better business to invest in other players, which don't suffer from such an illness. The risk:reward ratio is just skewed against Minigun (if eSport teams were forced to pay medical bills).
They dont havwe to pay the bills, just provide medical insurance. Like most comapnies in the US do. Some of the tops teams probably are approaching the size at which by US law they HAVE to provide health insurance. I can imagine that if TL wanted to they could offer their players health insurance, even if that meant paying them slightly less. But these smaller teams probably can't afford it, many dont pay their players a living wage.
Ok, as my family owns a small buisness, I will tell you that providing health insurance is super expensive and not viable for most Esport teams. It would likely cost more than the most players monthly salary. There is a reason every job does not provide health insurance and it's the price.
On June 16 2014 23:18 SirLanzealot wrote: Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
Would you sign a person like Minigun with a known illness if you would be forced to pay his medical bills?
That's how medical insurance works. Insurance companies make money from people who doesn't go to the doctor regularly and it compensates with the ones go sick as the last ones are actually in a minimum percentage compared to the number of insurance members.
Yes, and if you have a known disease and go to a new insurance you are "allowed" to pay more.
And if you are the manager of an eSports team, you will not sign a person which has the high chance of requiring tens of thousands of dollars. Since that is such a large slice in your budget that you can simply not afford it. Or: it's better business to invest in other players, which don't suffer from such an illness. The risk:reward ratio is just skewed against Minigun (if eSport teams were forced to pay medical bills).
They dont havwe to pay the bills, just provide medical insurance. Like most comapnies in the US do. Some of the tops teams probably are approaching the size at which by US law they HAVE to provide health insurance. I can imagine that if TL wanted to they could offer their players health insurance, even if that meant paying them slightly less. But these smaller teams probably can't afford it, many dont pay their players a living wage.
Ok, as my family owns a small buisness, I will tell you that providing health insurance is super expensive and not viable for most Esport teams. It would likely cost more than the most players monthly salary. There is a reason every job does not provide health insurance and it's the price.
I'm giving you some shit, but you are the greatest thing about SC2.
Hanging with the homies!!!! <3
You know what they say, with great power comes great responsibility.
So, I love you, but I think you may have dropped the hammer too hard on Ruff. He's just some village idiot who got in the way of the TB train.
I think there are a great many e-sports personalities, players and managers alike, who are prone to running off at the mouth when their tempers get the best of them. TB has had plenty of his own episodes where he loses his mind and acts like a child. Lucky for him and everyone else that they weren't treated the same way as Ruff for it.
I sense there may be a chip on your shoulder.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy when and where I see it =)
No one is perfect, and if we went on a witch hunt every time someone said something mean and hurtful there wouldn't be very many of us left.
The only difference between Ruff and TB is that Ruff said the wrong thing to a guy most of us absolutely love. Had he said something similar to a random person we'd never heard of (like TB does) he'd still have a team.
lawwllll
Here's the difference between me and Ruff, I have never, ever gone out of my way to make a barbed personal attack towards someone else in this scene, exploiting knowledge of their current bad situation to inflict maximum emotional damage. I've then also not gone on to gloat about doing so on my stream afterwards. You want to compare what he did to me being "condescending" to someone who said something stupid in a thread? It is absolutely adorable (or terrifying, either works) that you think the two are comparable.
Nice job with the false equivalency though. I'm sure everyone will believe that because I called you an idiot or whatever it is I did to get you all grudgey in a thread once that I am just as bad. We'll add you to the pile of people who doesn't understand what hypocrisy is.
On June 16 2014 23:18 SirLanzealot wrote: Why can E-sport teams offer medical coverage to their players? It should be mandatory, at least for US based teams, to offer medical coverage for their players in the US. It'll help some players like Minigun in the case they overcome any serious illness.
I'm all for the pitchforking in cases like this because our society could do with a lot less people saying stupid hurtful shit just because they are mad.
He was punished, and apologized. Pitchforking just seems like bullying. He paid a stiff price for what he said, which was obviously brought on by their past relationship on ladder, etc. He doesn't give excuses and accepted his firing/removal from the team. He obviously wanted to hurt miniguns feelings, and minigun certainly returned the favor with his tweet.
What else do you want? He hasn't really won anything in SC2, why do we need to spend 27 pages bashing the guy for an unflattering moment? I guess some enjoy to vent personal frustration when they notice something that strikes a personal chord, but I wish that forgiveness and maturity were a more prevailing theme.
Apologizing is the right thing to do, but it doesn't make the issue go away, it just minimizes the damage. That's the thing about speech, you can't take it back once its out there.
I don't want anything, and the post you quoted is my first post in this thread (I think) so I don't really feel like I'm contributing to the pitchforking that much. It's not for me to forgive him, that ball is in Minigun's court, since this individual has done nothing to me. I just like to see consequences for dumb, easily preventable, actions. There's too much toxicity on the internet and I'm glad to see repercussions for something that many people take for granted in competitive video games (rage). The pitchforking is almost as bad, but one step at a time.
First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about it. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
On June 17 2014 01:34 RuFF_SC2 wrote: First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
I can only speak for myself but messing with ROOT has nothing to do with anything for me. I don't go around holding grudges for other people. It's possible for someone to be a Nony fan and a Catz fan because they like the people and they're not fighting for someone's "camp". The team and their personal grudges don't even register for me, and while I again can't speak for other people I'm surely not alone in the thought.
No one took away your team but you. No one made you say shit, no one forced you to go out of your way to be a monstrous douche to minigun. YOU made the choice, YOU got yourself fired, YOU are going to need to learn some personal responsibility. You have no one to blame but yourself here.
He said you shouldn't play starcraft anymore if you can't control yourself. Your image has been tarnished assuredly from your actions but if you learn from your mistake and control your VERY controllable actions I don't see how anyone could have a problem with you being in the scene. For now you've got some personal growth to be doing and an image to clean up.
There's no two ways about it. What YOU said didn't need to be said. What YOU did was a heinous low-blow. Now it's on YOU to take a look at yourself and figure out what you can do to change or you can fall into obscurity. People don't just ride this kind of thing out without changing anything about themselves.
On June 17 2014 01:34 RuFF_SC2 wrote: First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
I can only speak for myself but messing with ROOT has nothing to do with anything for me. I don't go around holding grudges for other people. It's possible for someone to be a Nony fan and a Catz fan because they like the people and they're not fighting for someone's "camp". The team and their personal grudges don't even register for me, and while I again can't speak for other people I'm surely not alone in the thought.
No one took away your team but you. No one made you say shit, no one forced you to go out of your way to be a monstrous douche to minigun. YOU made the choice, YOU got yourself fired, YOU are going to need to learn some personal responsibility. You have no one to blame but yourself here.
He said you shouldn't play starcraft anymore if you can't control yourself. Your image has been tarnished assuredly from your actions but if you learn from your mistake and control your VERY controllable actions I don't see how anyone could have a problem with you being in the scene. For now you've got some personal growth to be doing and an image to clean up.
There's no two ways about it. What YOU said didn't need to be said. What YOU did was a heinous low-blow. Now it's on YOU to take a look at yourself and figure out what you can do to change or you can fall into obscurity. People don't just ride this kind of thing out without changing anything about themselves.
Let's sum up his """"""""""""""""""""""""""""logic"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""": A does a bad action against B. B, upset by this, decides to let people know what A did. B is clearly an asshole and no one should ever know about someone else's bad actions.
On June 17 2014 01:34 RuFF_SC2 wrote: First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about it. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
Agreed, the sooner we can get back to playing this game we all love the better. ROOT spiking the football after Ruff had been removed from IvD has been frankly sickening, and is contributing to drawing out this issue much longer than it really should. This kind of attention is bad for all parties involved and the sooner it goes away the better for all of us.
I read through the whole thread and "Wow" comes to mind as well.
TB being TB NoNy trying to put some constructive wisdom in ROOT & Catz - Won't even go there - They aren't civil angels in this issue either Ruff - needs to deal with the cards he has been dealt with and move on
Time for the thread to get buried with the Ukrainian thread.
On June 17 2014 01:34 RuFF_SC2 wrote: First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about it. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
Lol, that's some nice victim blaming and deflecting....again after your semi non apology the first time. You must have gone to the thoorin school of apologizing where you're just sorry someone was offended, but not really sorry for the act itself. No one took you away from your team, but yourself. That was 100% your own fault which was 100% avoidable, by just learning to control yourself.
this thread has completely used up all usefulness and turned into arguing about everything. I completely agree with TB on this but can we all tone it down a bit?
everyone pretty much has an opinion of it it was acceptable or not and nothing anyone says is going to change it.
you're just sorry someone was offended, but not really sorry for the act itself.
This community is so funny.. Someone always says this about anything anyone ever apologizes about.. Usually it's in the form of "You're not sorry you did it, you're just sorry you got caught" lol. Some people in this community are such bottom feeders.. You roam the depths of reddit and TL looking for something to chew on, and then when a dramatized situation comes a drifting by you and 1000 other bottom feeders go ape shit to get a bite lol. Remind me again how this had anything to do with any of you? People say stupid shit in sports and esports frequently to take stabs at others but they're still on their teams.. Grow up and move on because you stone throwers are no worse than RuFF making the original comment in the first place..
As someone who has known RuFF (his teammate) and watched his stream for so long , i am really really sad about him leaving us one of the nicest person i've met and a great streamer . Keep up the good things RuFF !
On June 17 2014 01:34 RuFF_SC2 wrote: First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about it. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
you're just sorry someone was offended, but not really sorry for the act itself.
This community is so funny.. Someone always says this about anything anyone ever apologizes about.. Usually it's in the form of "You're not sorry you did it, you're just sorry you got caught" lol. Some people in this community are such bottom feeders.. You roam the depths of reddit and TL looking for something to chew on, and then when a dramatized situation comes a drifting by you and 1000 other bottom feeders go ape shit to get a bite lol. Remind me again how this had anything to do with any of you? People say stupid shit in sports and esports frequently to take stabs at others but they're still on their teams.. Grow up and move on because you stone throwers are no worse than RuFF making the original comment in the first place..
It has to do with me because I live in a world populated by people who think my rights end where their feelings begin.
Admittedly my interest is mostly philosophical, but we border on "thought crime" when we get to the point of pitchforking people for their chat logs.
On June 17 2014 02:29 Plansix wrote: Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
Do you even Google bro? IvD was put together for a member with Hodgkin's lymphoma.... Minigun has Crohn's disease. They're two completely different things.. I understand where you're coming from but people don't need more inaccurate information....
On June 17 2014 02:29 Plansix wrote: Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
Do you even Google bro? IvD was put together for a member with Hodgkin's lymphoma.... Minigun has Crohn's disease. They're two completely different things.. I understand where you're coming from but people don't need more inaccurate information....
I don't think you read the first post of this thread lol
On June 17 2014 02:29 Plansix wrote: Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
Do you even Google bro? IvD was put together for a member with Hodgkin's lymphoma.... Minigun has Crohn's disease. They're two completely different things.. I understand where you're coming from but people don't need more inaccurate information....
did you even read the first post in the thread?
IvD was formed in support of a fellow gamer with cancer, and a number of us have been greatly affected by it and other diseases. Our owner himself was diagnosed with Crohn's disease and I lost my Mother and Grandparents to cancer shortly before IvD was founded.
On June 17 2014 01:34 RuFF_SC2 wrote: First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about it. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
You know nothing about how my former CEO really feels. So please halt your comments. I never once laughed at the fact that minigun was ill when I found out. This has nothing to do with his illness. When I typed out in anger because of his comment, it was because I felt like it was sick for him to use his illness to gain money. My choice of words were pretty unfair to minigun though so now this happened. My open opinion really fucked things up for me and because of that I am truly sorry, but don't you people dare talk as if you know how IVD feels about all of this.
On June 17 2014 02:29 Plansix wrote: Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
Do you even Google bro? IvD was put together for a member with Hodgkin's lymphoma.... Minigun has Crohn's disease. They're two completely different things.. I understand where you're coming from but people don't need more inaccurate information....
IvD was formed in support of a fellow gamer with cancer, and a number of us have been greatly affected by it and other diseases. Our owner himself was diagnosed with Crohn's disease
On June 17 2014 02:29 Plansix wrote: Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
Do you even Google bro? IvD was put together for a member with Hodgkin's lymphoma.... Minigun has Crohn's disease. They're two completely different things.. I understand where you're coming from but people don't need more inaccurate information....
Oh I know how to google! This thread comes up as the first result and look at what it says in google!
On June 17 2014 02:29 Plansix wrote: Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
Do you even Google bro? IvD was put together for a member with Hodgkin's lymphoma.... Minigun has Crohn's disease. They're two completely different things.. I understand where you're coming from but people don't need more inaccurate information....
Can you read the OP son? Did you see the part where it ways "the manager of the team has Crohn's disease". Ruff literally mocked Minigun for having the same disease his boss does. As I said before, it's like being shocked when you get fired for making jokes about austic kids when you boss has an austic kid.
On June 17 2014 01:34 RuFF_SC2 wrote: First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about it. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
You know nothing about how my former CEO really feels. So please halt your comments. I never once laughed at the fact that minigun was ill when I found out. This has nothing to do with his illness. When I typed out in anger because of his comment, it was because I felt like it was sick for him to use his illness to gain money. My choice of words were pretty unfair to minigun though so now this happened. My open opinion really fucked things up for me though and because of that I am truly sorry, but don't you people dare talk as if you know how IVD feels about all of this.
so you think that its wrong for someone who's sick and can't pay the medical bills to ask for money/get money (In this case apparantly minigun didn't ask for money at all someone voluntarily raised it for him) so they can live/get treatment? really?
anyway I'm out this thread is getting too ridiculous for me.
On June 17 2014 01:34 RuFF_SC2 wrote: First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about it. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
You know nothing about how my former CEO really feels. So please halt your comments. I never once laughed at the fact that minigun was ill when I found out. This has nothing to do with his illness. When I typed out in anger because of his comment, it was because I felt like it was sick for him to use his illness to gain money. My choice of words were pretty unfair to minigun though so now this happened. My open opinion really fucked things up for me and because of that I am truly sorry, but don't you people dare talk as if you know how IVD feels about all of this.
Well they fired you, so I have a pretty good idea how they feel about all of it. And if you think it has nothing to do wih his illness, why did you use the phrase "sick boy"? I mean, it clearly has a little to do with his illness, since you brought it up.
"IvD stands for IntraVenous Drip in support of a fellow gamer who is in full remission of Hodgkin’s lymphoma." That's why I made my comment. I read the first comment. I also read all the shit sprayed there after.. And again I will say IvD was put together for a member with Hodgkin's lymphoma..
On June 17 2014 02:45 Spec_x wrote: "IvD stands for IntraVenous Drip in support of a fellow gamer who is in full remission of Hodgkin’s lymphoma." That's why I made my comment. I read the first comment. I also read all the shit sprayed there after.. And again I will say IvD was put together for a member with Hodgkin's lymphoma..
"If I keep repeating my ignorance, it will become true!"
On June 17 2014 02:45 Spec_x wrote: "IvD stands for IntraVenous Drip in support of a fellow gamer who is in full remission of Hodgkin’s lymphoma." That's why I made my comment. I read the first comment. I also read all the shit sprayed there after.. And again I will say IvD was put together for a member with Hodgkin's lymphoma..
did you even read what plansix wrote
Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
nowhere does he say that the team wasn't put together for a member with Hodgekin's lymphoma. he simply said that the owner has crohns(which the op has in the thread) and the the team was founded for helping gamers with health issues. your magically creating a disagreement when there is none and arguing about something that both sides agree on
On June 17 2014 02:45 Spec_x wrote: "IvD stands for IntraVenous Drip in support of a fellow gamer who is in full remission of Hodgkin’s lymphoma." That's why I made my comment. I read the first comment. I also read all the shit sprayed there after.. And again I will say IvD was put together for a member with Hodgkin's lymphoma..
Yes, formed to help a gamer with medical issues, that's what cancer is. Nothing I said was incorrect. Glad we can agree on that.
On June 17 2014 01:34 RuFF_SC2 wrote: First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about it. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
With this statement-
"From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad."
I think this statement has some assumption, I guess that is what you really believe then. That if you aren't on Root you cannot be successful. Or that you feel that to "publicly say shit about ROOT." should help your reputation.
Neither one of these indicate that your apology is sincere as was what was written prior. I don't think this is the approach i would take. I would have focused on facts and precidents and less on emotion or things that can be misinterpreted as a motive. Also, I would try to identify the message and it assumptions and deal with those more directly. Good luck ruff.
May i suggest two books to read- How to win Friends and Influence people-Dale Carnegie (by this i mean more about influencing people) 48 laws of power- Robert Greene
On June 17 2014 01:34 RuFF_SC2 wrote: First thing out of my mouth is just going to be "Wow". Second, I apologize for what happened and I thank a lot of the professional players that have shown up in this thread expressing their concern of not trying to make me out as some horrid person.
From my experience you guys fucking ruin any player that messes with ROOT because you all are the monopoly of the NA Scene. I have gotten shit on by you guys since Wings of Liberty. Do you honestly think you can scare me away. I may be one of very few people to come out here and publicly say shit about ROOT and that is why my rep is so bad.
I found it pretty funny how in your vod from yesterday you are laughing about me getting kicked from my team and how your CEO Tweets about some grudge match. I was rather sad after playing minigun and left the stream because I knew there wasn't shit I could do about it. YOU took away a team that I thought was wonderful with some of the nicest people I have ever met in e-sports. And I am extremely fucking sad from what you said about me in this thread chad, about how I shouldn't play starcraft anymore. I am going to continue playing starcraft no matter how much shit I get because it is a game I and others ultimately enjoy.
Did you forget the part where your boss had the same disease as Minigun and founded their team on the concept of helping other gamers with medical issues? Did you think that mocking someone for being sick would go over well with them?
You know nothing about how my former CEO really feels. So please halt your comments. I never once laughed at the fact that minigun was ill when I found out. This has nothing to do with his illness. When I typed out in anger because of his comment, it was because I felt like it was sick for him to use his illness to gain money. My choice of words were pretty unfair to minigun though so now this happened. My open opinion really fucked things up for me and because of that I am truly sorry, but don't you people dare talk as if you know how IVD feels about all of this.
They surely were happy about it. Not like you were kicked out or anything.
The posting doesn't seem to have cleaned up, so unfortunately I'm going to have to close this. The thread has gone rather too personal and off-topic and there isn't likely much good to come of keeping this discussion open further.
EPT
and I think you are just trying to climb out of the hole you made? I was talking about how the community reacts, and you've slowly slithered to a different pov. What's the deal yo?
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