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Please clean up the quality of your posting. This thread has definitely taken a turn for the worse. |
United States23455 Posts
On June 16 2014 11:15 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:13 showstealer1829 wrote:On June 16 2014 11:08 dsousa wrote:
How much do your feeling have to be hurt before its punishable?
You can't measure it, so you IMO its too subject to bias to be policable.
Being offensive is not a crime. SC2 admins should not be in the business of policing game chats.
Its just words, they are what you make of them.
TB really hurt my feeling with his sarcasms, but I'm going to get over it an move on. When you're a pro player it doesn't work that way though, you're not only representing yourself, you're representing your team and the sponsors who endorse your team. Ruff doing what he did reflects on IvD, to keep him on would be to endorse him. No being offensive is not a crime but if you're representing your team it's a major misdemeanour, one that has to be punished. I have no problem with the team dumping him for being a jackass. That is a smart move on their part, my point is a finer one about being banned from tournaments. He didn't commit a crime, he didn't break a rule. He did represent himself and his team poorly.
I think it is at the discretion of tournaments to allow or not allow a player to participate if they act like idiots. It's their tournament
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On June 16 2014 11:13 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:12 Ben... wrote:On June 16 2014 11:08 dsousa wrote:
How much do your feeling have to be hurt before its punishable?
You can't measure it, so you IMO its too subject to bias to be policable.
Being offensive is not a crime. SC2 admins should not be in the business of policing game chats.
Its just words, they are what you make of them.
TB really hurt my feeling with his sarcasms, but I'm going to get over it and move on. It's not about crime or punishment. It's about being a decent human being. What is so difficult to understand about that concept? Who's to judge, that's what bothers me.
His boss, the guy who employees him. The person who normally judges you.
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On June 16 2014 11:14 Plansix wrote:
Except his employer doesn't give a shit and is just pissed at him for making shit head public comments about someone who has a life threatening disease. It has nothing to do with SC2, but with his job. His only job. Win at Starcraft and don't be a shit head. He failed at one, so now he doesn't get to do the other professionally.
If you'd taken the time to read the statement in the opening post you'd realise how wrong that statement is. As TB said it is literally the WORST team he could be on to be a dumb shit like he was
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On June 16 2014 11:15 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:14 Plansix wrote:
Except his employer doesn't give a shit and is just pissed at him for making shit head public comments about someone who has a life threatening disease. It has nothing to do with SC2, but with his job. His only job. Win at Starcraft and don't be a shit head. He failed at one, so now he doesn't get to do the other professionally. Actually his employer really does give a shit, because IvD was founded with the purpose of helping and supporting a fellow gamer diagnosed with Hodgkin’s Lymphoma and a member of their management actually has Crohns Disease. Ruff could literally not have picked a a team more likely to kick his ass to the curb for a comment like that. In some countries yes he did and on Battle.net he absolutely did. So not even this is right, not like "it's not a crime" excuses shitty behavior anyway.
Really, his boss has crowns disease and the team was founded to help another sick gamer? You can't make this shit up. What a fucking knuckle head. That's like making fun of autistic children when you know you boss has an autistic child.
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There are times like these where I'm not sure which is more frustrating: that TB is continuing the discussion (however well-meaning he is), or that people are still making short-sighted comments. I've (frustratingly) read much of the last sixteen pages, and what we're at now is effectively the same things that have been argued and debunked already...
The point is, RuFF made a gesture contrary to the beliefs held by his team; he was discharged according to the context of the situation. He apologized. The rest is fluff; the epilogue is now RuFF's to make, not us.
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On June 16 2014 11:22 Spect8rCraft wrote:
There are times like these where I'm not sure which is more frustrating: that TB is continuing the discussion (however well-meaning he is), or that people are still making short-sighted comments. I've (frustratingly) read much of the last sixteen pages, and what we're at now is effectively the same things that have been argued and debunked already...
The point is, RuFF made a gesture contrary to the beliefs held by his team; he was discharged according to the context of the situation. He apologized. The rest is fluff; the epilogue is now RuFF's to make, not us.
i've read it all too and i'm not sure i want it to stop, it's both cringeworthy and entertaining. Thank god no one notable has gotten into a shitfest with TB though, threads tend to descend into awfullness when that happens, atm all we have are some people with little empathy alot of confused people and a good few (rightfully) butthurt people. Oh and some trolls/drama whores too.
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Lol Ruff... "I saved my brother from cancer" and "I literally cried" 26 years old and saying shit like this chasing a progammer dream as a 26 year old and not even close to making it. Sad sad life
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basically the discussion in this thread isn't as awful as it coulda been
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Lol I was watching Ken yesterday and he was asking for donations for his sick cat to get surgery, no one was bothered by that at all, streamers do donation drives all the time. I don't know if Ruff expected anyone to back him up when he attacked Minigun for that but if he did he's out of touch and/or an idiot.
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On June 16 2014 11:02 JacobShock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 10:52 Doodsmack wrote:On June 16 2014 10:07 JacobShock wrote:On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote:
Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt". Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read.. It's highly relevant. No it's not. Iaguz choice of words weren't ROOT's official statement on the matter. It was his reaction to a teammate being lambasted in a pretty fucking personal way. Also Iaguz is Australian so the word cunt has a completely different context to him than it might have to you. So chill out. Again it's not like it was something ROOT got together collectively and thought out.
Lol sorry you can't explain away the word "cunt" by context. When the sentence in question is "what a cunt". It shows that the reaction to an unprofessional insult can be very unprofessional. Iaguz carries the team tag and represents them when doing so.
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[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally).
And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning?
Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form.
You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it.
I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break.
Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.)
You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart?
But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's.
"Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause."
That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal.
Seems kinda sick.
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On June 16 2014 11:36 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:02 JacobShock wrote:On June 16 2014 10:52 Doodsmack wrote:On June 16 2014 10:07 JacobShock wrote:On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote:
Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt". Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read.. It's highly relevant. No it's not. Iaguz choice of words weren't ROOT's official statement on the matter. It was his reaction to a teammate being lambasted in a pretty fucking personal way. Also Iaguz is Australian so the word cunt has a completely different context to him than it might have to you. So chill out. Again it's not like it was something ROOT got together collectively and thought out. Lol sorry you can't explain away the word "cunt" by context. When the sentence in question is "what a cunt". It shows that the reaction to an unprofessional insult can be very unprofessional. Iaguz carries the team tag and represents them when doing so.
Well I mean Ruff was being a cunt, there's nothing to explain. It's not like he meant it in jest, he meant it as an insult in retaliation for something very personal said to one of his friends. Up to ROOT management and ofc public opinion whether or not that is ok and will have any consequences. From my persective if one of my players had said that in response to something like this I'd have said "you probably shouldn't call people cunts on Twitter, it has PR ramifications, but its not like I disagree with your sentiment either".
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Uncharacteristic of Ruff? haha
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On June 16 2014 11:36 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:02 JacobShock wrote:On June 16 2014 10:52 Doodsmack wrote:On June 16 2014 10:07 JacobShock wrote:On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote:
Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt". Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read.. It's highly relevant. No it's not. Iaguz choice of words weren't ROOT's official statement on the matter. It was his reaction to a teammate being lambasted in a pretty fucking personal way. Also Iaguz is Australian so the word cunt has a completely different context to him than it might have to you. So chill out. Again it's not like it was something ROOT got together collectively and thought out. Lol sorry you can't explain away the word "cunt" by context. When the sentence in question is "what a cunt". It shows that the reaction to an unprofessional insult can be very unprofessional. Iaguz carries the team tag and represents them when doing so.
Would you have preferred the Australian cliché "Wanker" instead? He called him a cunt cause in this case Ruff was a cunt
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On June 16 2014 11:43 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:36 Doodsmack wrote:On June 16 2014 11:02 JacobShock wrote:On June 16 2014 10:52 Doodsmack wrote:On June 16 2014 10:07 JacobShock wrote:On June 16 2014 08:33 Doodsmack wrote:
Team ROOT isn't exactly putting its best foot forward itself when Minigun goes to Twitter to address the situation, and his teammate iaguz comments "What a cunt". Oh come on, that's like the weakest attempt at changing direction I have ever read.. It's highly relevant. No it's not. Iaguz choice of words weren't ROOT's official statement on the matter. It was his reaction to a teammate being lambasted in a pretty fucking personal way. Also Iaguz is Australian so the word cunt has a completely different context to him than it might have to you. So chill out. Again it's not like it was something ROOT got together collectively and thought out. Lol sorry you can't explain away the word "cunt" by context. When the sentence in question is "what a cunt". It shows that the reaction to an unprofessional insult can be very unprofessional. Iaguz carries the team tag and represents them when doing so. Would you have preferred the Australian cliché "Wanker" instead? He called him a cunt cause in this case Ruff was a cunt
Quite. If this wasn't deserving of cuntdom, I don't know what is.
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United States23455 Posts
On June 16 2014 11:37 KingKayzz wrote:Show nested quote +[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally). And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning? Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form. You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it. I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break. Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.) You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart? But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's. "Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause." That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal. Seems kinda sick.
Yeah making fun of someone's illness/financial situation due to medical bills makes one lovable I agree. Also the guy with Crohns that has these medical bills is the villain. THAT MAKES NO SENSE. He is not a lovable asshole. I won't go on to say that Ruff is an asshole as I don't know him, but what he did gives that impression.
Also they were both streaming so it was public before he put it on Twitter. He didn't make Ruff say this, Ruff just went ahead and said it. Also Minigun is immature for letting people know that this "professional" who is representing his team and sponsors is making fun of a guy's medical and financial situations? Other way around mate.
Then you go on to say that there is no excuse for Iaguz verbally retaliating with a generic insulting word when you just praised Ruff for the verbal attack he made? What? Also don't randomly post racial slurs to try to prove a point it's not necessary.
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8748 Posts
The team's gotta do what it's gotta do, that's fine, but I'm concerned about the culture in our community when it comes to ragers. I have way more patience with a guy who rages while losing than the smug and cruel people who poke the ragers and abuse them and laugh at them. You can't hate ragers for raging while also contributing to their rage. There are a lot of players who try to be good people in general but lose themselves sometimes and cross the line. And there are also a lot of people who know exactly where the line is and have complete control of themselves and are as big of assholes as they can get away with, especially to the ragers. It'd be nice if everyone tried to be productive and helpful, and not see every guy who crosses the line as an opportunity to be hateful and get away with it.
I'm not saying ruff and minigun are examples of either end of the spectrum. I'm just using this latest drama as an opportunity to point out this reality. Ruff doesn't deserve to be a punching bag because of this one comment and everyone who ever prodded him on for their own amusement is partially responsible. I used to think people should take a laugh whenever they can get it, but sometimes it's just too selfish and a fellow human being deserves more than being laughed at for their shortcomings.
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While it is ultimately IvD's decision, and I believe they were more than justified in removing ruff, anybody who has played minigun multiple times or has talked to him is aware that he fully deserves any negative comments directed towards him. IMO teams are way too overly sensitive to things players say (In this case since it mentions topics the owner has dealt with I can understand it.)
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On June 16 2014 11:37 KingKayzz wrote:Show nested quote +[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally). And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning? Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form. You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it. I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break. Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.) You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart? But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's. "Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause." That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal. Seems kinda sick.
Well, I hope its not as bad as that, but I am alarmed that someone can say something to someone on ladder. Have it tweeted. Then TB suddenly announced this person is banned from Clan Wars, then the team follows up by dumping him, probably in large part because TB was so offended.
Its just so arbitrary. And SC2 will eat alive another person who lives for the game.
And I agree with you, I think the ornery assholes add character. You have to expect that stuff on the internet, I think of it as performance art, watching someone go as low as they can go.
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On June 16 2014 11:46 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:37 KingKayzz wrote:[B]Well he did act like a cunt and iaguz is Australian. Cunt is as interchangeable over there as dick... though not literally of course (well maybe a bit literally). And, in some other cultures nigger has become interchangable with lazy. Does that mean that to the rest of the world the word still does not carry a derogatory meaning? Iaguz calling anyone a cunt is not justifiable - not in any way, shape, or form. You have a good analogy and made my other point moot to a certain extent, but it still stands to reason that Ruff's statement came as a result of minigun's own apparent immaturity and that of the rest of Root's. Ruff himself said so (about minigun) and others have validated it. I don't know. I generally don't have a problem with asshole players. To me, assholes are those guys that say exactly what is on their minds, so it can be expected to some extent that eventually they will take it too far. To me, assholes are predictable. If you bait them, they'll bite most of the time. If you push them, break. Ruff seems like a perfectly standard kind of ass in my book. And, with drama like this, it just further cements him as one of this community's lovable assholes (IN MY EYES.) You see how I simply cannot take ruff's comments to heart? But, minigun? I've heard casters talk about how cool he is. All this drama does is taint his image, if you ask me, and Root's. "Hey, guys. Let's bait this guy into saying something stupid on stream, just because I hate him. And, when he does say something stupid on stream, I'm going to go on twitter and show the whole world how immature I am by calling him out on it... even though it's fucking obvious I was the cause." That's just the vibe I'm getting from minugun in this whole ordeal. Seems kinda sick. Well, I hope its not as bad as that, but I am alarmed that someone can say something to someone on ladder. Have it tweeted. Then TB suddenly announced this person is banned from Clan Wars, then the team follows up by dumping him, probably in large part because TB was so offended. Its just so arbitrary. And SC2 will eat alive another person who lives for the game. And I agree with you, I think the ornery assholes add character. You have to expect that stuff on the internet, I think of it as performance art.
With all due respect to him. I think you vastly overestimate TB's power over the IvD management
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EPT
