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On June 05 2014 05:06 Zax19 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 02:50 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote:
Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ?
Blizzard logic never stops amazing me. Blizzards logic is that punishing the better players and their teams is a bad idea. I tend to agree with them. There is no point in slamming the gate after the horses have long since bolted. Americans are not good enough to compete en-masse in WCS NA as it currently stands and those that did earn their spots should not be punished for that. A proper NA league should be established for NA players but good luck finding anyone willing to run it. The viewership isn't there and the players keep forfeiting whenever one of us tries to set something like that up, so wtf. The prevailing opinion is that it's a lost cause and it's hard to disagree with that right now. And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help. Flight costs last year were upwards of $15,000 for WCS America alone. To call it crippling would be an understatement. Like my friend used to say, in the end it's the airlines who wins x). On principle I don't like paying flights, living closer to the tournament should give you financial advantage and you can tak the money and put it into the prize pool. Other than that it makes sense because tournament winnings travel slowly and this is a buffer for the players. In this case I suspect he didn't RTFM, although changes like that mid year are a bit annoying.
There were no changes mid year though. The changes were made prior to Season 1 of 2014.
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On June 05 2014 04:59 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote:Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked. Sorry for the confusion  GG NO RE LOL. Glad that's all figured out.
On June 05 2014 05:01 DinosaurJones wrote:
ROFL THAT TITLE CHANGE.
haha. what would SC2 be without a little drama every once in a while <3
//edit: + Show Spoiler +
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On June 05 2014 04:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:
This is not free money they are being given. They get their travel paid, up to a certain amount. Flying within America costs far less than flying from Korea to America. This is not bonus cash you get, it is a plane ticket that has a limit on how expensive it can be because that's common sense.
I know it's not free money.
What I was pointing out was the disparity that existed.
Either make it $1000 (which is actually) or $500, for everyone equally.
If a player chooses to play from a region that is half a world away, they or their team should pay up the remainder.
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On June 05 2014 04:57 McRatyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote:Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked. Sorry for the confusion Facepalm moment, someone was not aware of the rules before crying on social media, and maybe someone doesn't have the ruleset distribution well in place. I'm glad I had fun while it lasted thanks TL
He says he reached out to people and didn't get a productive response.
Then he went to Twitter and this thread resulted.
Then he got a productive response.
Even TB, who presumably also has at least some of the information, was saying it was set out in the rules how much Major would get. But maybe it wasn't set out clearly enough, since apparently it is $1000 and not $500 for Major... so...
Or TB might not have looked that closely since it didn't impact his players and may have been referring more generally to what was set out as the situation pre-WCS.
I still want to know what city Major flies from.
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I think it would safe a lot of drama if the OP would include kennigets post.
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On June 05 2014 04:46 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2014 04:40 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:29 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 04:26 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 03:54 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 03:10 xuanzue wrote:On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote:
Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament. I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money. esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever. I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table. Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things. No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists. Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe. And now the reality. Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs. You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft.
The total amount of money netted by selling copies of HotS is probably dwarfed by what Riot and Valve bring in from micro transactions in a short span of time. SC2 has a very limited amount of visibility in the Esports scene nowadays and it's only shrinking. Whatever happened to Blizzard spearheading the surge in Esports?
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United States33704 Posts
the lesson we learned today is that canadians get screwed because they are too nice
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On June 05 2014 05:12 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:46 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On June 05 2014 04:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2014 04:40 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:29 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 04:26 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 03:54 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 03:10 xuanzue wrote:On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote:
Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament. I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money. esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever. I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table. Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things. No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists. Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe. And now the reality. Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs. You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft. The total amount of money netted by selling copies of HotS is probably dwarfed by what Riot and Valve bring in from micro transactions in a short span of time. SC2 has a very limited amount of visibility in the Esports scene nowadays and it's only shrinking. Whatever happened to Blizzard spearheading the surge in Esports?
Telling Icefrog to go get fucked happened.
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So after all this, it looks like Major was right to complain as now they found out he gets up to 1k for travel.
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Haha, this thread title is gold. It's nice to see some things never change, like TB getting into arguments with people, and Major making a fool of himself.
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On June 05 2014 05:13 Waxangel wrote:
the lesson we learned today is that canadians get screwed because they are too nice
don't worry, they're sorry
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On June 05 2014 05:05 goiflin wrote:
Wouldn't it be great if korean players had a tournament in korea to play in, where the travel stipend would be minimal due to a centralized location of most pro-gaming houses and ready availability of public transport to any major population center?
You know, so that they didn't have to spend insane amounts of money traveling to north america to take away slots from potential up and comers in our region?
I'm sure you think this is terribly clever. Here are several reasons why it isn't.
1) The talent pool in Korea is too big and the number of tournaments for those players to participate in is too small. They have one individual tournament. 1. They have more competitive players than every other region put together. There are a handful of American players that could actually take a BO3 out of any of the 48 people in this seasons Code A, let alone Code S. Code B also has a ton of players who would crush the vast majority of what America has to offer on any given day. There is simply not enough space in the GSL for all the talent Korea has, so either it gets distributed amongst the other regions or a shit ton of players languish without recognition or prize money every month. The effect of this is that teams are forced to downsize unless they're doing Proleague (and probably while they're doing Proleague as well if they aren't winning it). Long story short, players get fired, players that are better than all but a handful of Americans.
2) Sponsor ROI. It doesn't make much sense for teams and players with foreign sponsors to play in the GSL. It gets the least foreign views of the 3 events and many of those products are not available in Korea (or are imported at very high cost). It's the same reason KeSPA isn't too fussed about sending its players to foreign events, their main sponsors only sell in South Korea.
If you want the Koreans to "go back to Korea". Give them 2 more divisions of GSL. Turn Code A into a proper tournament, Make a Code B and a Code C. Make sure they all have reasonable prizepools because god knows Code C would be harder than any American only tournament and if you can win that you should be getting prizemoney and then... maybe then you can say "go back home".
The horse bolted a long time ago. No point closing the gate now.
Or TB might not have looked that closely since it didn't impact his players and may have been referring more generally to what was set out as the situation pre-WCS.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
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On June 05 2014 05:18 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 05:13 Waxangel wrote:
the lesson we learned today is that canadians get screwed because they are too nice don't worry, they're sorry
they're sorry they didn't qualify
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On June 05 2014 05:13 Waxangel wrote:
the lesson we learned today is that canadians get screwed because they are too nice
We can carpool I guess...
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On June 05 2014 05:16 Kasaraki wrote:
Haha, this thread title is gold. It's nice to see some things never change, like TB getting into arguments with people, and Major making a fool of himself.
Yep, lets ignore the fact that ESL admins had misinformed MajOr on the amount and that TB didn't make a fool of himself by arguing with a "fool"
What's that saying again?
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Who changed the thread title? ^^
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On June 05 2014 05:13 Waxangel wrote:
the lesson we learned today is that canadians get screwed because they are too nice
LOL WAT
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On June 05 2014 05:19 Tobblish wrote:
Who changed the thread title? ^^
Who do you think 
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EPT
