Previously, MajOr suggested that he would forfeit his participation in the WCS America Ro16 due to discrepancies in travel support given to players from different countries. Due to a miscommunication with an ESL admin, MajOr believed that he would be receiving $500 in travel support instead of the $1000 given to players from Korea, China, etc.
However, ESL has clarified that players from Latin America also receive $1000 in travel support.
Despite the clarification, this thread is still highly entertaining and should be perused with adblock off.
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
MajOr may forfeit his participation in the WCS America Ro16.
In a comment on Reddit, MajOr stated his dissatisfaction with the $500 of travel support give to North American players by Blizzard. In particular, MajOr took issue with the fact that Korean players receive $1000 in travel support. According to MajOr, he had informed Blizzard of his complaints privately before going public.
hey. idk what you ppl saying but mexico to los angeles flight cost around 600-650 and its supposed to be covered as they said that all transportation would be covered for NA players. but than they told me only 500$ so im not paying 150 + possible 200 of taxis from airport. especially when i hear that kr players get 1k covered. when they said korean players wouldnt get their shit covered.
MajOr declared on Twitter that he refused to pay any of his travel fees out of pocket.
MajOr commented on TeamLiquid.net regarding his communications with Blizzard and the costs involved in traveling to WCS America from his location.
On June 05 2014 03:47 MajOr wrote: First of all, i messaged everyone i know from blizzard before making tweet either a)didnt reply me back or b) didnt gave me a real response or give me stuff liek this [03/06/2014 09:01:15 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: mexico is considered central america.. [03/06/2014 09:01:19 p.m.] major: rofl [03/06/2014 09:02:05 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: or not.. [03/06/2014 09:02:08 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: doesn't matter to me [03/06/2014 09:02:51 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: I'm not doing the flights, so if is only $500 like I'm pretty sure it is, I guess I wish you the best of luck.
than dont give me the contact of whoever is doing the flights?
a flight from my city to lax can cost up to 700$ normally is 600-650 tho, than 100 usd per way of taxi thats another 200$ that could be almost 400$. im not rich, i dont have a team - yes koreans flights cost more but when u been doing wcs for 6 seasons and 5 of them you paid all cost for NA players than change it for this season. is not fair. especially when they said they wouldnt support KR players with travel fees when they first created WCS america, since when i was in korea i asked would u guys cover anything from my travel if i qualify for wcs am season 1? and they gave me a no. only players from NA get covered.
In the 2013 season of WCS America, Blizzard paid for all travel fees inside North America, but none for players outside the continent.
In 2014, Blizzard changed their policy to give more support to players outside of North America, giving a $1000 travel stipend to non-North American players while giving $500 to players inside the continent.* This coincided with the "soft" region-lock that was implemented in the region, which limited the number of non-North American players who could advance from the qualifiers.
According to the WCS rulebook, a forfeit from MajOr would result in ZOO.Courage replacing him in the Ro16 as the next highest placing player from their Ro32 group.
*Blizzard paid for all travel fees in 2014's WCS America Season 1, when NASL's abrupt closure forced the tournament to be held in ESL's studio in Germany.
Considering the way MajOr conducts himself, I don't see this as any big loss. He ought to have learned by now that being pleasant and, at the very least, not a self-entitled child is a better way to get what one wants.
On June 05 2014 01:37 farvacola wrote: Considering the way MajOr conducts himself, I don't see this as any big loss. He ought to have learned by now that being pleasant and, at the very least, not a self-entitled child is a better way to get what one wants.
Someone needs to replace Naniwa ^_^!
This thread seems overly dramatic though. Currently, it sounds like Major is just being Major on the internet. I'm quite confident he will not forfeit his participation, as it would not be hard to get those costs covered one way or another. It'd also hurt his image quite a bit if he did it over a couple hundred dollars. I'm pretty sure every NA BW player out there was paying for more expensive plane tickets to travel to small dinky LAN tournaments that didn't even have total prizepools as high as his guaranteed earnings ($2,000).
TB mentioned about Blizzard speaking to team owners and mentioned of travel subsidies. So it makes sense. There is no way Pigbaby would be able to get there otherwise, it's very unlikely Jin Air (because who knows if he's still on the team, I guess the RO16 will make this apparent) would of paid for his trip.
On June 05 2014 01:38 marcesr wrote: Blizzard should stop giving 1k to Koreans immediately. Why would you subsidize players ruining your own tournament?
Nothing to do with Koreans. You can be a Chinese or Spainish boy. Everyone outside NA gets 1k.
Does that mean that he doesn't get the extra $1K in prize money for making it to the round of 16 then too ($3K for 9-16th vs $2K for 17-24th)? Seems like a bad financial decision if that is the case. This seems very over dramatic and petty. I realize it is frustrating to have to pay anything, but you are still better off by competing than by quitting.
WTF is Blizzard trying to pull now. The fact that they aren't willing to cover travel costs in it's entirety is just pathetic. It goes against the spirit of the tournament. They implemented a bunch of systems ie, region lock to help the scene grow, but they are gonna stop full support of the players so that players are forced to make decision to no-show in ro.16 or pay out of their pocket essentially gambling money away?
On June 05 2014 01:55 sharkie wrote: Sorry, but this just sucks by blizzard... you cant just say all NA players get 500 and all non NA get 1k - thats unprofessional
I am sure there are places in NA where it costs more than 500 to go to LA...
God damn it paying more for ppl flying from the other globe is "unprofessional"? There is a common sense called "estimated cost" when running business and doing cost plans. Paying 1000$ for Korea and China is not enough and 500$ for Mexico is more than enough. In the end Koreans and Chinese end up paying more out of their/their team's own.
He's probably just blowing a load of hot air for the sake of it, not quite thinking it through. Wouldn't be the first time. Major's people skills are roughly comparable to Genghis Khan's.
If you think what you get is not enough, contact them and show them proof that it's way beyond your reach, Blizzard is not stupid to stir trouble in there premier tournament.
They never said it was supposed to cover all costs this year, just help with costs. Since flights from Asia are more expensive it makes sense that makes sense that the financial help from Blizzard is greater to Koreans and Chinese,
On June 05 2014 01:55 sharkie wrote: Sorry, but this just sucks by blizzard... you cant just say all NA players get 500 and all non NA get 1k - thats unprofessional
I am sure there are places in NA where it costs more than 500 to go to LA...
God damn it paying more for ppl flying from the other globe is "unprofessional"? There is a common sense called "estimated cost" when running business and doing cost plans. Paying 1000$ for Korea and China is not enough and 500$ for Mexico is more than enough. In the end Koreans and Chinese end up paying more out of their/their team's own.
A flight from Mexico to LAX during the first week of WCS Ro16 costs $439. A flight from Mexico to LAX during the second week of WCS Ro16 costs $432.
(source: Kayak)
If it wasn't for teams pushing hard for travel allowance this year Major would have had to pay every cent of that by himself.
Fact of the matter is where you're travelling from matters on how much your travel allowance is, you should be happy to even be getting a travel allowance. Imagine qualifying all 3 seasons, you'd be paying $1500 or more coming from Mexico.
SNA (Santa Ana airport) is 15 minutes from the center of Anaheim..... for $376 You can call United Airlines (or probably their webpage) and ask for this flight to buy it.
MajOr has no idea what he is talking about. Flights from Mexico to LA do not cost more than $500 unless you are situated about as far south as you can get. I dunno where MajOr resides, gonna be honest about that, but Mexico City to LA flights cost about $350 return.
Literally a non-issue. They can't possibly care more for NA players because the NA players are not paying a cent for travel. Even with $1000 per player, KR teams are paying the excess, since getting a flight from Seoul to LA return for $1000 that doesn't have some ridiculous 18 hour layover is a matter of complete pot-luck.
I would spend the extra money and get at least $1000.00 more then i already have and have so much more exposure! but hey whatever ;D If you join my team we will pay your the extra charges :D
On June 05 2014 02:01 Squat wrote: He's probably just blowing a load of hot air for the sake of it, not quite thinking it through. Wouldn't be the first time. Major's people skills are roughly comparable to Genghis Khan's.
Ha! Pretty sure you know "jack shit" about Genghis Khan then.
On June 05 2014 01:55 sharkie wrote: Sorry, but this just sucks by blizzard... you cant just say all NA players get 500 and all non NA get 1k - thats unprofessional
I am sure there are places in NA where it costs more than 500 to go to LA...
God damn it paying more for ppl flying from the other globe is "unprofessional"? There is a common sense called "estimated cost" when running business and doing cost plans. Paying 1000$ for Korea and China is not enough and 500$ for Mexico is more than enough. In the end Koreans and Chinese end up paying more out of their/their team's own.
This is WCS NA. Shouldn't they care more for their NA players?
This is WCS, they should care about all of their players. Did the Europeans complain? LiveZerg flying in from Russia or Vortix from Spain costs pretty as much as Major from Mexico if not more.
On June 05 2014 01:53 Ctone23 wrote: Well I guess that's one way to ask Blizzard to cover the extra xD
Yeah, a completely retarded way and the least likely to succeed. I genuinely fear for some progamers' career prospects after they retire given their people skills can be so lacking.
Life tip for everyone: putting up someone's back from whom you want a favour is an ineffective way of getting what you want. (Plus it makes you come across as a dick).
On June 05 2014 02:01 Squat wrote: He's probably just blowing a load of hot air for the sake of it, not quite thinking it through. Wouldn't be the first time. Major's people skills are roughly comparable to Genghis Khan's.
Ha! Pretty sure you know "jack shit" about Genghis Khan then.
Not exactly intended to be a historically accurate representation. Point was that Major has a history of being a bit of a bull in the china shop. Feel free not to expand on your rather opaque remark.
On June 05 2014 02:04 zanga wrote: I'll dump my post from the other thread here:
Is he serious? #Impulsive
SNA (Santa Ana airport) is 15 minutes from the center of Anaheim..... for $376 You can call United Airlines (or probably their webpage) and ask for this flight to buy it.
ESL NA studio is in Burbank iirc, so I think LAX would be the correct destination (I'm not frmo cali please don't hurt me)? Iono where Major lives tho
$500 is not enough for a round trip depending on where you live. Right now if I grab a flight from Oakland, California to LA via Expedia.com and give myself two months in advance it comes out to $182 round-trip. That's in the same state, maybe a 30-45 minute flight in total. The only thing that makes up for this is that a Ro16 finish is a guaranteed $3000. Should Blizzard factor in these costs into the prize money? Well, that's another debate.
Cover the cost. Don't do a reimbursement-model so that you (Blizzard) have complete control over the situation and pricing and then send MajOr (despite being rude as hell about it) to WCS America.
I just did a very quick look-up of return flights from Mexico to LA and the cheapest I could find was $540 with United Airlines (prices from Canada to LA were roughly the same). Cheapest flight from Seoul to LA was $1540 (again with United). Also really can't see many other people coming further than Mexico for the majority of people within NA $500 should actually be enough. I should probably mention that I didn't shop around for these prices, it was pretty much just expedia.
So people within NA are still getting a better deal than Koreans and also Blizzard is under absolutely no obligation to pay travel in the first place. People know full well that RO16 onward is lan and will be expected to travel there if they advance (the prize pool is generous enough to warrant it imo). I can't quite understand all these people saying "Blizzard should do better, shame on them" this is just major been a drama queen.
On June 05 2014 02:01 Squat wrote: He's probably just blowing a load of hot air for the sake of it, not quite thinking it through. Wouldn't be the first time. Major's people skills are roughly comparable to Genghis Khan's.
Ha! Pretty sure you know "jack shit" about Genghis Khan then.
Would have clearly been better if you said 'pretty sure you know "jack squat" ... '
On June 05 2014 02:11 Anoteros wrote: $500 is not enough for a round trip depending on where you live. Right now if I grab a flight from Oakland, California to LA via Expedia.com and give myself two months in advance it comes out to $182 round-trip. That's in the same state, maybe a 30-45 minute flight in total. The only thing that makes up for this is that a Ro16 finish is a guaranteed $3000. Should Blizzard factor in these costs into the prize money? Well, that's another debate.
Cover the cost. Don't do a reimbursement-model so that you (Blizzard) have complete control over the situation and pricing and then send MajOr (despite being rude as hell about it) to WCS America.
I don't think you understand how flights work. Oakland to LA costing $182 has no bearing at all on the cost of other flights, it's not a miles per $ system. As has already been proven in this thread, flights from Mexico City to LAX cost less than $400 round trip
On June 05 2014 02:01 Squat wrote: He's probably just blowing a load of hot air for the sake of it, not quite thinking it through. Wouldn't be the first time. Major's people skills are roughly comparable to Genghis Khan's.
Ha! Pretty sure you know "jack shit" about Genghis Khan then.
Not exactly intended to be a historically accurate representation. Point was that Major has a history of being a bit of a bull in the china shop. Feel free not to expand on your rather opaque remark.
TBH bull in a china shop is not accurate, they don't actually break stuff.
On June 05 2014 02:04 zanga wrote: I'll dump my post from the other thread here:
Is he serious? #Impulsive
SNA (Santa Ana airport) is 15 minutes from the center of Anaheim..... for $376 You can call United Airlines (or probably their webpage) and ask for this flight to buy it.
ESL NA studio is in Burbank iirc, so I think LAX would be the correct destination (I'm not frmo cali please don't hurt me)? Iono where Major lives tho
Roger that commander Wax!
$378 to BUR - Bob Hope Burbank airport - almsot landing right in their studio!
Wow this thread is sinking real fast. This WCS AM is not hard region locked, it makes no sense to provide as much travel subsidies for AM players than foreigners.
I read some interviews about how some Chinese pro are paying their own money to the team so that they can be a progamer and let the team stay afloat. I honestly wish some pros can give more respect and appreciation to their career
On June 05 2014 02:01 Squat wrote: He's probably just blowing a load of hot air for the sake of it, not quite thinking it through. Wouldn't be the first time. Major's people skills are roughly comparable to Genghis Khan's.
Ha! Pretty sure you know "jack shit" about Genghis Khan then.
Not exactly intended to be a historically accurate representation. Point was that Major has a history of being a bit of a bull in the china shop. Feel free not to expand on your rather opaque remark.
TBH bull in a china shop is not accurate, they don't actually break stuff.
I confess to having no first hand experience with the matter. Though I did witness what occurs when a rather large and rather horny labrador catches sight of a cute german shepherd in a glass and china-ware shop. Perhaps that would have been a better analogy.
On June 05 2014 02:04 zanga wrote: I'll dump my post from the other thread here:
Is he serious? #Impulsive
SNA (Santa Ana airport) is 15 minutes from the center of Anaheim..... for $376 You can call United Airlines (or probably their webpage) and ask for this flight to buy it.
ESL NA studio is in Burbank iirc, so I think LAX would be the correct destination (I'm not frmo cali please don't hurt me)? Iono where Major lives tho
Roger that commander Wax!
$378 to BUR - Bob Hope Burbank airport - almsot landing right in their studio!
Hahaha oh wow so you can even fly directly to the fucking regional airport for less, don't even have to use LAX as a hub.
I wish of all the things he'd forfeited, MajOr had forfeited Twitter first.
On June 05 2014 02:04 olimoley wrote: A flight from Mexico to LAX during the first week of WCS Ro16 costs $439. A flight from Mexico to LAX during the second week of WCS Ro16 costs $432.
(source: Kayak)
If it wasn't for teams pushing hard for travel allowance this year Major would have had to pay every cent of that by himself.
Fact of the matter is where you're travelling from matters on how much your travel allowance is, you should be happy to even be getting a travel allowance. Imagine qualifying all 3 seasons, you'd be paying $1500 or more coming from Mexico.
Thank you, I was about to show this if nobody else did. Some people are not very good at flying cheap airfare.
On June 05 2014 02:11 Anoteros wrote: $500 is not enough for a round trip depending on where you live. Right now if I grab a flight from Oakland, California to LA via Expedia.com and give myself two months in advance it comes out to $182 round-trip. That's in the same state, maybe a 30-45 minute flight in total. The only thing that makes up for this is that a Ro16 finish is a guaranteed $3000. Should Blizzard factor in these costs into the prize money? Well, that's another debate.
Cover the cost. Don't do a reimbursement-model so that you (Blizzard) have complete control over the situation and pricing and then send MajOr (despite being rude as hell about it) to WCS America.
I don't think you understand how flights work. Oakland to LA costing $182 has no bearing at all on the cost of other flights, it's not a miles per $ system. As has already been proven in this thread, flights from Mexico City to LAX cost less than $400 round trip
I stand corrected. I was certainly under the impression it was dependent on distance.
On June 05 2014 02:04 zanga wrote: I'll dump my post from the other thread here:
Is he serious? #Impulsive
SNA (Santa Ana airport) is 15 minutes from the center of Anaheim..... for $376 You can call United Airlines (or probably their webpage) and ask for this flight to buy it.
ESL NA studio is in Burbank iirc, so I think LAX would be the correct destination (I'm not frmo cali please don't hurt me)? Iono where Major lives tho
Roger that commander Wax!
$378 to BUR - Bob Hope Burbank airport - almsot landing right in their studio!
Sorry but gg no re Major
Someone need to print this post thousands of time and drown Major into it.
Blizzard can never please everyone and people will always find something to complain about sigh...
$500 seems like a fine amount for Blizz to give and I can't complain about giving the Non- NA players more because that's how much more their plane tickets will be.... The soft region lock was cool for giving the NA players more exposure, but of course we still want some koreans and europeans to be in the tournament to help raise and make the skill set more diverse.
On June 05 2014 01:55 sharkie wrote: Sorry, but this just sucks by blizzard... you cant just say all NA players get 500 and all non NA get 1k - thats unprofessional
I am sure there are places in NA where it costs more than 500 to go to LA...
In about a week I am flying clear across the country from SF to New York, the plane ticket cost around $360
I was just starting to like MajOr more and this reminds me why I don't pay much attention to him... GL Juan, hope to see you playing in WCS anyway
I mean this as a compliment, but does Major remind anyone else of Cartman from Southpark? I had to get this out there. Also, despite the stereotype that everyone in Mexico lives in Mexico City, this may not be the case.
On June 05 2014 02:04 zanga wrote: I'll dump my post from the other thread here:
Is he serious? #Impulsive
SNA (Santa Ana airport) is 15 minutes from the center of Anaheim..... for $376 You can call United Airlines (or probably their webpage) and ask for this flight to buy it.
ESL NA studio is in Burbank iirc, so I think LAX would be the correct destination (I'm not frmo cali please don't hurt me)? Iono where Major lives tho
Roger that commander Wax!
$378 to BUR - Bob Hope Burbank airport - almsot landing right in their studio!
Hahaha oh wow so you can even fly directly to the fucking regional airport for less, don't even have to use LAX as a hub.
I wish of all the things he'd forfeited, MajOr had forfeited Twitter first.
I'm pretty sure $378 doesn't include taxes, after tax should be around $500 give or take. Guess Major needs to find better deals before forfeiting, then again I don't think twittering a forfeit is actually a forfeit?
On June 05 2014 02:04 zanga wrote: I'll dump my post from the other thread here:
Is he serious? #Impulsive
SNA (Santa Ana airport) is 15 minutes from the center of Anaheim..... for $376 You can call United Airlines (or probably their webpage) and ask for this flight to buy it.
ESL NA studio is in Burbank iirc, so I think LAX would be the correct destination (I'm not frmo cali please don't hurt me)? Iono where Major lives tho
Roger that commander Wax!
$378 to BUR - Bob Hope Burbank airport - almsot landing right in their studio!
Hahaha oh wow so you can even fly directly to the fucking regional airport for less, don't even have to use LAX as a hub.
I wish of all the things he'd forfeited, MajOr had forfeited Twitter first.
I'm pretty sure $378 doesn't include taxes, after tax should be around $500 give or take. Guess Major needs to find better deals before forfeiting, then again I don't think twittering a forfeit is actually a forfeit?
Incorrect, as far as I know it includes all taxes, all airport fees and everything , all details below:
On June 05 2014 01:38 marcesr wrote: Blizzard should stop giving 1k to Koreans immediately. Why would you subsidize players ruining your own tournament?
Because they are not ruining it. It's only the community who thinks that WCS AM should feature North American players only. Blizzard never ever intended for that to be the case and they only implemented a partial region lock because the community kept bitching. WCS AM is supposed to deliver regular Starcraft content at a good time for the North American region. That's it. That's what WCS is supposed to do. Provide fans in each region with content to watch at a good time slot.
That being said, there is probably a really good reason why they decided to change the way they cover expenses. Major should stop being a little bitch, forfeiting this over not wanting to pay some cash probably won't help him. I really appreciate his dedication and his desire (or at least the desire he used to have) to play on a Korean team, but I figured someone coming from the really small foreign BW scene would show more appreciation for Blizzard not only acknowledging eSports (that used to be way different with developers a few years ago) but also running their own tournament and even paying for travel cost. I guess he should be mad at himself for getting thrown out of so many teams, otherwise he'd have someone to pay for his travel.
On June 05 2014 01:52 eScaper-tsunami wrote: WTF is Blizzard trying to pull now. The fact that they aren't willing to cover travel costs in it's entirety is just pathetic. It goes against the spirit of the tournament. They implemented a bunch of systems ie, region lock to help the scene grow, but they are gonna stop full support of the players so that players are forced to make decision to no-show in ro.16 or pay out of their pocket essentially gambling money away?
To everyone calculating the flight costs from Mexico City - I don't think major lives in Mexico City, plus you are forgetting to account for taxi rides which he claims could total up to 200 dollars.
The reason this is an issue is because in last years WCS, anyone in the Americas had fully subsidized travel, and anyone who was outside had to pay completely out of pocket. Now suddenly major is getting the short end of the stick because blizzard is shelling out $1000 per Korean and forcing major to eat some costs he wouldn't have had to before (in a tournament that is in HIS region). So I think he is justifiably a bit angry. I think costs could be covered from places without their own WCS, like TW, SEA, and China, but costs from Korea should not be subsidized that much . . .
Would be useful to have this information in the op perhaps wax so people aren't confused about why major is displeased
ITT: Ignorance and people who didn't read the WCS documentation, spurred on by a player who is ignorant and didn't read the WCS documentation. Blind leading the blind.
On June 05 2014 02:04 zanga wrote: I'll dump my post from the other thread here:
Is he serious? #Impulsive
SNA (Santa Ana airport) is 15 minutes from the center of Anaheim..... for $376 You can call United Airlines (or probably their webpage) and ask for this flight to buy it.
ESL NA studio is in Burbank iirc, so I think LAX would be the correct destination (I'm not frmo cali please don't hurt me)? Iono where Major lives tho
Roger that commander Wax!
$378 to BUR - Bob Hope Burbank airport - almsot landing right in their studio!
Hahaha oh wow so you can even fly directly to the fucking regional airport for less, don't even have to use LAX as a hub.
I wish of all the things he'd forfeited, MajOr had forfeited Twitter first.
I'm pretty sure $378 doesn't include taxes, after tax should be around $500 give or take. Guess Major needs to find better deals before forfeiting, then again I don't think twittering a forfeit is actually a forfeit?
Incorrect, as far as I know it includes all taxes, all airport fees and everything , all details below:
Oh wow lol, guess you did Major's work for him... now he just has to book the flights ha. And that is damn cheap....
On June 05 2014 02:33 eScaper-tsunami wrote: Oh wow lol, guess you did Major's work for him... now he just has to book the flights ha. And that is damn cheap....
It's unlikely he will even have to book them. ESL will most likely handle it for him, they certainly did last season.
that's kind of annoying he has to make it on twitter to get attention and stuff. one could simply talk with blizzard about it. this is a unprofessional way to go about it, so yeah i hope courage will replace him if he cancels his participation
On June 05 2014 02:33 Superiorwolf wrote: To everyone calculating the flight costs from Mexico City - I don't think major lives in Mexico City, plus you are forgetting to account for taxi rides which he claims could total up to 200 dollars.
Taxi rides to where? Does he know WCS has a personal driver for players during the event?
On June 05 2014 02:33 Superiorwolf wrote: To everyone calculating the flight costs from Mexico City - I don't think major lives in Mexico City, plus you are forgetting to account for taxi rides which he claims could total up to 200 dollars.
Taxi rides to where? Does he know WCS has a personal driver for players during the event?
That would involve reading any of the documentation he was sent at the start of Season 1 this year. What do you think?
On June 05 2014 02:35 Undead1993 wrote: that's kind of annoying he has to make it on twitter to get attention and stuff. one could simply talk with blizzard about it. this is a unprofessional way to go about it, so yeah i hope courage will replace him if he cancels his participation
Honestly I hope Blizzard tells Major his tweet counts as forfeit, gives him only the guaranteed prize money for Ro32, and has Courage play.
On June 05 2014 02:33 Superiorwolf wrote: To everyone calculating the flight costs from Mexico City - I don't think major lives in Mexico City, plus you are forgetting to account for taxi rides which he claims could total up to 200 dollars.
Taxi rides to where? Does he know WCS has a personal driver for players during the event?
That would involve reading any of the documentation he was sent at the start of Season 1 this year. What do you think?
I assume he lives far from his airport in Mexico but you'd have to ask him o.o
Honestly I see both sides of the argument, it's such a petty amount of money he'd have to pay especially compared to people outside the US, but major is someone who will let you know how I satisfied he is as I'm sure you've all seen his tweets in the past
Ok I just looked at some flights he might take and I think I could plan that trip for less than $500...
Also people saying people outside of NA shouldn't get more money explain to me how any Taiwanese/Chinese/Korean who has earned their way into the Ro16 could possibly get to the studio without their teams forking out TONS of cash if Blizzard didn't provide them with more money.
Sure you can say "It isn't their region why do we have to pay for Koreans to go?" but it is a little late for that. Now there are 10+ players who need travel expenses from Korea paid and you can't just hang them out to dry now.
Overall I think MajOr is a whiner although I wish Blizzard had the money to prevent this from being an issue. Still, seems that this information was available to him long before he qualified for the Ro16 so it seems odd that he is just protesting this now.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and we have long since figured out that immediately going to twitter with your complaint instead of the organization privately is immature and stupid. But hey whatever floats your boat.
On June 05 2014 02:33 Superiorwolf wrote: To everyone calculating the flight costs from Mexico City - I don't think major lives in Mexico City, plus you are forgetting to account for taxi rides which he claims could total up to 200 dollars.
Taxi rides to where? Does he know WCS has a personal driver for players during the event?
That would involve reading any of the documentation he was sent at the start of Season 1 this year. What do you think?
Do they really have one? Geez MajOr is gonna be eating his words, this is just getting embarrassing for him. I understand that he was used to last year getting everything paid for, but I guess he never expected to make it thru, so he didn't look up the rules and read the documentation until now???? Just plain silly Juan...
well maybe he thinks the chance of him going through again is less than likely, so he'd be paying money to go lose. I dunno what he is thinking to be honest.
On June 05 2014 02:33 Superiorwolf wrote: To everyone calculating the flight costs from Mexico City - I don't think major lives in Mexico City, plus you are forgetting to account for taxi rides which he claims could total up to 200 dollars.
Taxi rides to where? Does he know WCS has a personal driver for players during the event?
That would involve reading any of the documentation he was sent at the start of Season 1 this year. What do you think?
I assume he lives far from his airport in Mexico but you'd have to ask him o.o
He may go a little over the $500 mark for travel, but he is guaranteed $3,000 regardless. I don't understand the lashing out.. especially after he just qualified for ro16.
So according to the WCS rules, if he forfiets he only gets the prize money for 17th - 32nd place which is $2k, despite getting 2nd in his RO32 group (which guarantees him at least $3K). So even if it cost him $1000, which is clearly excessive to what people in this threat have found, to get to LA he is still giving up $500 by quitting. (Rule 20.0B).
It is just really hard to have any sympathy for Major with his drama-mongering. Perhaps we can just go ahead and give the spot to courage
On June 05 2014 02:41 JacobShock wrote: well maybe he thinks the chance of him going through again is less than likely, so he'd be paying money to go lose. I dunno what he is thinking to be honest.
Maybe that attitude is why WCS NA is full of Koreans.
On June 05 2014 02:43 jakethesnake wrote: So according to the WCS rules, if he forfiets he only gets the prize money for 17th - 32nd place which is $2k, despite getting 2nd in his RO32 group (which guarantees him at least $3K). So even if it cost him $1000, which is clearly excessive to what people in this threat have found, to get to LA he is still giving up $500 by quitting. (Rule 20.0B).
It is just really hard to have any sympathy for Major with his drama-mongering. Perhaps we can just go ahead and give the spot to courage
yes.. in the end even if he pays out of his pocket for taxi + etcetcetc he still ends up making more if he attends the ro16
Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
No because the travel costs between the two are widely disproportionate.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
No because the travel costs between the two are widely disproportionate.
Less opportunity/incentive for our-of-region players... but yeah, never going to happen.
On June 05 2014 02:33 eScaper-tsunami wrote: Oh wow lol, guess you did Major's work for him... now he just has to book the flights ha. And that is damn cheap....
It's unlikely he will even have to book them. ESL will most likely handle it for him, they certainly did last season.
Well wasn't last season the exception where they (WCS NA Players) had to fly to Europe due to NASL shutting down and all player travels were fully subsidized?
Regardless of what happened last season, I'm still in shock that Blizzard didn't fully covered travel for all players every season. Yes, it's expensive, but there will be times where players have to drop their attendance mid-tournament due to unpaid-costs.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
Blizzards logic is that punishing the better players and their teams is a bad idea.
I tend to agree with them. There is no point in slamming the gate after the horses have long since bolted. Americans are not good enough to compete en-masse in WCS NA as it currently stands and those that did earn their spots should not be punished for that. A proper NA league should be established for NA players but good luck finding anyone willing to run it. The viewership isn't there and the players keep forfeiting whenever one of us tries to set something like that up, so wtf. The prevailing opinion is that it's a lost cause and it's hard to disagree with that right now.
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Flight costs last year were upwards of $15,000 for WCS America alone. To call it crippling would be an understatement.
Well, he really played it badly. Even if he lives in some remote part of Mexico and getting to Mexico City will cost him a lot of money and time he certainly had other options. He could ask community to chip in. I am sure theres a lot of people who would gladly support mannered player from their own region in his travel expanses.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
On June 05 2014 02:51 Silvanel wrote: Well, he really played it badly. Even if he lives in some remote part of Mexico and getting to Mexico City will cost him a lot of money and time he certainly had other options. He could ask community to chip in. I am sure theres a lot of people who would gladly support mannered player from their own region in his travel expanses.
Or realize that being the sole North American to qualify to the Ro16 could probably get him onto a team willing to pay for this travel costs if he could act like a reasonable human.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
if you switch the WCS NA prize pool to code A/B i'm ok with that. if not there is 0 point to hand a ton of cash to the NA scene right now.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
If you took all of the Koreans out of AM and EU and put them in the GSL the Korean WCS would be so oversaturated that you'd see tons of star talent in Code B or retired.
And of course you completely ignored the plight of Chinese/Taiwanese/SEA players who don't have their own region and therefore pretty much have to play in AM. If you think they should play in GSL because it's "closer" then I invite you to come up with a way for them to travel to and LIVE IN Korea for cheaper than they could play in WCS America.
On June 05 2014 01:38 marcesr wrote: Blizzard should stop giving 1k to Koreans immediately. Why would you subsidize players ruining your own tournament?
On June 05 2014 02:51 Silvanel wrote: Well, he really played it badly. Even if he lives in some remote part of Mexico and getting to Mexico City will cost him a lot of money and time he certainly had other options. He could ask community to chip in. I am sure theres a lot of people who would gladly support mannered player from their own region in his travel expanses.
I agree, really poor attitude. His entitlement is spelled out in WCS policy and procedure. Unfortunate it may not cover every "penny" as major put it, but there are ways around it. For him to think he is mistreated is borderline insulting to other players who gave their all only to fall short in WCS.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
While I agree with you on the subject content-wise, I (and I think I'm not alone in this) would greatly appreciate it, if you wouldn't go ad hominem in every discussion you take part in, just because they didn't think something completely through. Not offending people generally leads to a more constructive environment.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
Making it a pain in the ass for non NA players to attend to discourage them from doing so is a really awful idea. It smacks of cowardice and favoritism. Either implement an actual region lock or don't.
Omg so much biased americans here for some "anti koreans tournament". That's sick. I wouldn't give a penny to a only NA player tournament, they are so bad c'mon. Koreans in WCS NA are what make the tournament entertaining. + It would kill so much great teams with koreans players that rely on "foreigners sponsors" like TL, EG, Axiom...
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
What I think would be really great if there was a WCS based on country, which seeds into a continental and then global tournament at the end of the year. ;;;;;
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
There are flights to Los Angeles from Mexico City that Major could get for less than 500 dollars, a lot less. More in the 350 dollar range.
So whether or not Major's claim is even true is still debatable. 500 dollars sounds like enough of a stipend going from Mexico to LA. It might just be he needs to figure out how to shop for flights.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
This is just an opinion though. LCS NA seems to have amazing viewership even though it's clearly the worst scene in the LCS. There's more storyline and drama than just "can this one guy beat a Korean and be the sole north american to qualify for ro16?!?!" every season. Then when you have a champion in the americas it is hype when they get to finally go up against the koreans.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
What I think would be really great if there was a WCS based on country, which seeds into a continental and then global tournament at the end of the year. ;;;;;
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
What I think would be really great if there was a WCS based on country, which seeds into a continental and then global tournament at the end of the year. ;;;;;
You mean WCS 2012?
Exactly Just do WCS 2012 but organize it better, especially so you don't have one that's literally played as a side event at an MLG Pump more money in the KR WCS and less into the NA / EU ones too
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
This is the part that so many people that pop up in these threads don't talk about.
If there was enough interest in American only starcraft then we'd actually see more tournaments popping up to support it, but every single time someone tries it the ratings are always awful.
MLG Anaheim is coming up this month. How likely is it that its viewer numbers will come anywhere near what the other major tournaments get that have Korean players in them?
There simply isn't enough interest in American/Canadian Starcraft to warrant a full WCS tournament for them. That's the sad truth of it.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
What I think would be really great if there was a WCS based on country, which seeds into a continental and then global tournament at the end of the year. ;;;;;
I really miss the days if WCS US/Canada/Germany etc. Those were the most exciting days of Starcraft 2 for me. There is something special about a tournament with the best from each country meeting up and battling it out. Kind of like a Mortal Kombat tournament on a mysterious island with the best fighters from all over the world.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
This is just an opinion though. LCS NA seems to have amazing viewership even though it's clearly the worst scene in the LCS. There's more storyline and drama than just "can this one guy beat a Korean and be the sole person to qualify for ro16?!?!" every season. Then when you have a champion in the americas it is hype when they get to finally go up against the koreans.
League is completely another story Suppy. Team sport tends to bring more drama and story because teams, just like how before League, EU dota was also very active despite total domination from China.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
This is just an opinion though. LCS NA seems to have amazing viewership even though it's clearly the worst scene in the LCS. There's more storyline and drama than just "can this one guy beat a Korean and be the sole north american to qualify for ro16?!?!" every season. Then when you have a champion in the americas it is hype when they get to finally go up against the koreans.
LCS NA > LCS EU probably. And riot isolated its scenes so a lot of people are blind about the abysmal skill their fed with. And there is a similar debate going on TL about the cause AM/EU suck balls compare to Korea.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
What I think would be really great if there was a WCS based on country, which seeds into a continental and then global tournament at the end of the year. ;;;;;
You mean WCS 2012?
Exactly Just do WCS 2012 but organize it better, especially so you don't have one that's literally played as a side event at an MLG Pump more money in the KR WCS and less into the NA / EU ones too
I enjoyed that system but the 2012 system was seriously flawed (tournaments combo'd with other events, low viewer counts, some countries being drastically more difficult than others even within EU/AM). I think there are positives to that system as opposed to this one, although it needs to be done MUCH better especially on the NA side.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
What I think would be really great if there was a WCS based on country, which seeds into a continental and then global tournament at the end of the year. ;;;;;
You mean WCS 2012?
Exactly Just do WCS 2012 but organize it better, especially so you don't have one that's literally played as a side event at an MLG Pump more money in the KR WCS and less into the NA / EU ones too
I actually wanted a WCS 2012 because you can easily make fun side events like nation wars coincide with it.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
This is the part that so many people that pop up in these threads don't talk about.
If there was enough interest in American only starcraft then we'd actually see more tournaments popping up to support it, but every single time someone tries it the ratings are always awful.
MLG Anaheim is coming up this month. How likely is it that its viewer numbers will come anywhere near what the other major tournaments get that have Korean players in them?
There simply isn't enough interest in American/Canadian Starcraft to warrant a full WCS tournament for them. That's the sad truth of it.
MLG Anaheims open bracket is not region locked though (Already heard rumors about Harstem participating) and a few koreans/euros are already in the group stages. I think they'll get decent numbers.
If Blizzard says they will cover all travel costs, then they should cover all travel costs, not just $500. It's also ridiculous that they would set the limit at $500 for NA players, but make it $1000 for Koreans. This is WCS NORTH AMERICA after all... Regardless, Major is so damn unprofessional and whiny that I wouldn't mind if he forfeited.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
What I think would be really great if there was a WCS based on country, which seeds into a continental and then global tournament at the end of the year. ;;;;;
You mean WCS 2012?
Exactly Just do WCS 2012 but organize it better, especially so you don't have one that's literally played as a side event at an MLG Pump more money in the KR WCS and less into the NA / EU ones too
WCS 2012 was by far the best WCS, but I dont think we need country and global. Just only continental and Blizzcon. Global killed the status of continental winner. And KR has two Tournaments (WCS and GSL).
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
What I think would be really great if there was a WCS based on country, which seeds into a continental and then global tournament at the end of the year. ;;;;;
You mean WCS 2012?
Exactly Just do WCS 2012 but organize it better, especially so you don't have one that's literally played as a side event at an MLG Pump more money in the KR WCS and less into the NA / EU ones too
I actually wanted a WCS 2012 because you can easily make fun side events like nation wars coincide with it.
with nationwars you get a combo of live semi/finals + foreigners + national aspect that makes up for the level of play
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
1.) The viewers have never been great, there's a reason why NASL shut down. Think about it. Stephano streaming alone makes up for 25%-50% of the WCS AM viewership on a regular basis not including the offline-portion. 2.) There are plenty of opportunities to play against koreans. Online cups, ladder, dreamhack, MLG, IEM. You do realise that only about 1-2 foreigners make it to the offline portions of WCS AM right? Most of the encounters of foreigner vs korean are still online. 3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED. Foreigners have virtually 0 chance to even try for GSL. The qualifiers alone are offline. Then you're expected to be at a studio once a month at the very least. And the koreans who find GSL too hard (or WCS too easy) flock to all corners of the world. GSL/region lock aside, there needs to be a WCS Asia, there are many non-korean asian players also looking for an opportunity and it can help accommodate the surplus of koreans.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
This is just an opinion though. LCS NA seems to have amazing viewership even though it's clearly the worst scene in the LCS. There's more storyline and drama than just "can this one guy beat a Korean and be the sole person to qualify for ro16?!?!" every season. Then when you have a champion in the americas it is hype when they get to finally go up against the koreans.
League is completely another story Suppy. Team sport tends to bring more drama and story because teams, just like how before League, EU dota was also very active despite total domination from China.
Well it seems to me that viewership is always highest when a non-Korean makes it far in a tournament, and drops immediately after they are knocked out. Once Koreans started coming into MLGs and stuff and starting to dominate is when the viewership began to decline. You can argue that it was because SC2 was getting older but all I know is that people love to see non-Koreans doing well and if you can put on a facade that they are good by having a region locked tournament a lot of people will forget how big the skill disparity is and still enjoy watching a region locked tournament. Plus, that type of a tournament would perhaps lead to non-Koreans getting better in general, read CatZ well written post about it here http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1slt/my_views_on_wcsregional_based_leagues_region/
The players are just trying to earn some money. Closing an already open door for the Asian/Korean players seems like a slippery slope, and as already pointed out, the numbers simply don't warrant an all NA system.
The sooner Blizzard switches to a F2P model for SC2 (with only cosmetic things available for purchase, like how DotA2 does it), the quicker they'll be able to support a proper global WCS similar to 2012.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
This is just an opinion though. LCS NA seems to have amazing viewership even though it's clearly the worst scene in the LCS. There's more storyline and drama than just "can this one guy beat a Korean and be the sole person to qualify for ro16?!?!" every season. Then when you have a champion in the americas it is hype when they get to finally go up against the koreans.
League is completely another story Suppy. Team sport tends to bring more drama and story because teams, just like how before League, EU dota was also very active despite total domination from China.
Well it seems to me that viewership is always highest when a non-Korean makes it far in a tournament, and drops immediately after they are knocked out. Once Koreans started coming into MLGs and stuff and starting to dominate is when the viewership began to decline. You can argue that it was because SC2 was getting older but all I know is that people love to see non-Koreans doing well and if you can put on a facade that they are good by having a region locked tournament a lot of people will forget how big the skill disparity is and still enjoy watching a region locked tournament. Plus, that type of a tournament would perhaps lead to non-Koreans getting better in general, read CatZ well written post about it here http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1slt/my_views_on_wcsregional_based_leagues_region/
I think, the highest viewer count, I saw recently was actually Life vs Innovation at DH.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
This is just an opinion though. LCS NA seems to have amazing viewership even though it's clearly the worst scene in the LCS. There's more storyline and drama than just "can this one guy beat a Korean and be the sole person to qualify for ro16?!?!" every season. Then when you have a champion in the americas it is hype when they get to finally go up against the koreans.
League is completely another story Suppy. Team sport tends to bring more drama and story because teams, just like how before League, EU dota was also very active despite total domination from China.
Well it seems to me that viewership is always highest when a non-Korean makes it far in a tournament, and drops immediately after they are knocked out. Once Koreans started coming into MLGs and stuff and starting to dominate is when the viewership began to decline. You can argue that it was because SC2 was getting older but all I know is that people love to see non-Koreans doing well and if you can put on a facade that they are good by having a region locked tournament a lot of people will forget how big the skill disparity is and still enjoy watching a region locked tournament. Plus, that type of a tournament would perhaps lead to non-Koreans getting better in general, read CatZ well written post about it here http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1slt/my_views_on_wcsregional_based_leagues_region/
You have a terrible memory.
Columbus was when MLG first featured Korean players. Columbus blew away anything that had come before it in terms of viewer ratings.
Anaheim topped Columbus.
Providence was the absolute peak.
Guess what all 3 had in common? Korean players.
Except back then, Foreign players could actually still somewhat compete, but the divide between Korean pros and foreign pros has only gotten larger since then thanks in large part to the KESPA pros.
MLG's drop in viewers came mostly from LoL rising to prominence and the fact that WoL turned into an Infestor/Broodlord shit show that killed viewership all over the place.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
exaggeration is a way of lie
it's just a straight up lie. the GSL is just a full lan event.
On June 05 2014 02:43 jakethesnake wrote: So according to the WCS rules, if he forfiets he only gets the prize money for 17th - 32nd place which is $2k, despite getting 2nd in his RO32 group (which guarantees him at least $3K). So even if it cost him $1000, which is clearly excessive to what people in this threat have found, to get to LA he is still giving up $500 by quitting. (Rule 20.0B).
It's funny how people put the fault on koreans when it's just foreigners that are plain bad at the game. It they had a better work ethic, we wouldn't have this problem.
My family travels from Florida to New England once or twice a year. Having priced flights like this for the last 6 years, I completely understand Blizzard changing their travel expense policy from covering 100% of travel costs last year to covering a set limit.
Airfare between the same two destinations can vary greatly depending on lots of factors: - direct flights tend to cost more than flights with multiple hops - flights leaving and/or arriving at more convenient times of the day cost more than ones that leave really early or arrive really late - tickets purchased in advance tend to cost less than tickets purchased on shortly before the flight
If players had their travel expenses covered 100%, they would no doubt pick the most convenient flight for them regardless of the extra cost compared to slightly less convenient arrangements.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
While I agree with you on the subject content-wise, I (and I think I'm not alone in this) would greatly appreciate it, if you wouldn't go ad hominem in every discussion you take part in, just because they didn't think something completely through. Not offending people generally leads to a more constructive environment.
And I would appreciate it if you did not engage in the fallacy fallacy. The only ad hominem that occurred in that post was the first line. The rest of the post was completely valid. Detecting a fallacy does not win you the argument, nor does it score you points.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
While I agree with you on the subject content-wise, I (and I think I'm not alone in this) would greatly appreciate it, if you wouldn't go ad hominem in every discussion you take part in, just because they didn't think something completely through. Not offending people generally leads to a more constructive environment.
And I would appreciate it if you did not engage in the fallacy fallacy. The only ad hominem that occurred in that post was the first line. The rest of the post was completely valid. Detecting a fallacy does not win you the argument, nor does it score you points.
Woah now that's not entirely true.
If a debater's argument is based AROUND a fallacy, then I'm definitely going to score points if i point that out.
Not that's what happened in this case, but just saying.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
While I agree with you on the subject content-wise, I (and I think I'm not alone in this) would greatly appreciate it, if you wouldn't go ad hominem in every discussion you take part in, just because they didn't think something completely through. Not offending people generally leads to a more constructive environment.
And I would appreciate it if you did not engage in the fallacy fallacy. The only ad hominem that occurred in that post was the first line. The rest of the post was completely valid. Detecting a fallacy does not win you the argument, nor does it score you points.
Sorry, I was only referring to the first line, I should have made that clear. I'll edit the quote to not confuse future readers. Also as I said, I don't want to win the argument against you, as I am on on your side here.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
exaggeration is a way of lie
it's just a straight up lie. the GSL is just a full lan event.
*sigh* can't believe I have to explain this. WCS AM , the AM qualifiers require the players to live inside AM to participate. While there are other qualifiers for outsiders with limited openings. Hence why violet participated in the AM portion of the qualifiers, and therefore soft region lock GSL, due to the format, all players have to be in korea for the qualifiers, hence FULL REGION LOCK.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
While I agree with you on the subject content-wise, I (and I think I'm not alone in this) would greatly appreciate it, if you wouldn't go ad hominem in every discussion you take part in, just because they didn't think something completely through. Not offending people generally leads to a more constructive environment.
And I would appreciate it if you did not engage in the fallacy fallacy. The only ad hominem that occurred in that post was the first line. The rest of the post was completely valid. Detecting a fallacy does not win you the argument, nor does it score you points.
jesus christ
he just asked you to be a little nicer. you're the one going into some kind of tryhard mode citing logical falacies and shit
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
exaggeration is a way of lie
it's just a straight up lie. the GSL is just a full lan event.
*sigh* can't believe I have to explain this. WCS AM , the AM qualifiers require the players to live inside AM to participate. While there are other qualifiers for outsiders with limited openings. Hence why violet participated in the AM portion of the qualifiers, and therefore soft region lock GSL, due to the format, all players have to be in korea for the qualifiers, hence FULL REGION LOCK.
if for you a region lock is because you've to be somewhere to play a qualifier i can't do anything...
the real rule is
Restrictions:
You must be at least Master league on the European server. You must be a European citizen or posses a working visa for a European country.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
While I agree with you on the subject content-wise, I (and I think I'm not alone in this) would greatly appreciate it, if you wouldn't go ad hominem in every discussion you take part in, just because they didn't think something completely through. Not offending people generally leads to a more constructive environment.
And I would appreciate it if you did not engage in the fallacy fallacy. The only ad hominem that occurred in that post was the first line. The rest of the post was completely valid. Detecting a fallacy does not win you the argument, nor does it score you points.
jesus christ
he just asked you to be a little nicer. you're the one going into some kind of tryhard mode citing logical falacies and shit
Wax whatever you're huffing, quit it. Massively overreacting for no reason doesn't score any points either.
Only person I'm insulting in this thread is MajOr and he deserves every bit of it.
The title is misleading, he didn't say anything about forfeit. Wax fuelling the drama .
It's a really unprofessional way to handle things by him though, it's laughable. Why complain now after you qualify.... Also the general way of acting shows it's no surprise he had so many different teams I guess.
On June 05 2014 03:32 farvacola wrote: Waxangel telling someone to be nice? This thread is great.
Will someone please tell me where to point my pitchfork!?
I rolled a die. The result was to point your pitchfork at Ctone23. Personally I don't think, that he did anything wrong, but so is the nature of pitchforks, they don't always make sence.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
While I agree with you on the subject content-wise, I (and I think I'm not alone in this) would greatly appreciate it, if you wouldn't go ad hominem in every discussion you take part in, just because they didn't think something completely through. Not offending people generally leads to a more constructive environment.
And I would appreciate it if you did not engage in the fallacy fallacy. The only ad hominem that occurred in that post was the first line. The rest of the post was completely valid. Detecting a fallacy does not win you the argument, nor does it score you points.
jesus christ
he just asked you to be a little nicer. you're the one going into some kind of tryhard mode citing logical falacies and shit
Wax whatever you're huffing, quit it. Massively overreacting for no reason doesn't score any points either.
Only person I'm insulting in this thread is MajOr and he deserves every bit of it.
I think he was requesting a slight dialing back on some of the abrasiveness. I understand and sympathize with the fact that you are going through some rough shit and I truly wish you all the best, just try to remember that you have friends as well as foes on the internet.
On June 05 2014 02:49 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] How hard are you trying to screw over Chinese and Taiwanese players right now?
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
exaggeration is a way of lie
it's just a straight up lie. the GSL is just a full lan event.
*sigh* can't believe I have to explain this. WCS AM , the AM qualifiers require the players to live inside AM to participate. While there are other qualifiers for outsiders with limited openings. Hence why violet participated in the AM portion of the qualifiers, and therefore soft region lock GSL, due to the format, all players have to be in korea for the qualifiers, hence FULL REGION LOCK.
if for you a region lock is because you've to be somewhere to play a qualifier i can't do anything...
You must be at least Master league on the European server. You must be a European citizen or posses a working visa for a European country.
It implies it. All the foreigners who tried for GSL essentially lived in Korea for a period of time. Artosis, Scarlette and State. And let's be honest, GSL doesn't have dedicated qualifiers for players outside of Korea. Never had, and never will. And I'll state it again, which makes it essentially FULL REGION LOCKED.
On June 05 2014 02:53 m0ck wrote: [quote] Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
exaggeration is a way of lie
it's just a straight up lie. the GSL is just a full lan event.
*sigh* can't believe I have to explain this. WCS AM , the AM qualifiers require the players to live inside AM to participate. While there are other qualifiers for outsiders with limited openings. Hence why violet participated in the AM portion of the qualifiers, and therefore soft region lock GSL, due to the format, all players have to be in korea for the qualifiers, hence FULL REGION LOCK.
if for you a region lock is because you've to be somewhere to play a qualifier i can't do anything...
the real rule is
Restrictions:
You must be at least Master league on the European server. You must be a European citizen or posses a working visa for a European country.
It implies it. All the foreigners who tried for GSL essentially lived in Korea for a period of time. Artosis, Scarlette and State. And let's be honest, GSL doesn't have dedicated qualifiers for players outside of Korea. Never had, and never will. And I'll state it again, which makes it essentially FULL REGION LOCKED.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
exaggeration is a way of lie
it's just a straight up lie. the GSL is just a full lan event.
*sigh* can't believe I have to explain this. WCS AM , the AM qualifiers require the players to live inside AM to participate. While there are other qualifiers for outsiders with limited openings. Hence why violet participated in the AM portion of the qualifiers, and therefore soft region lock GSL, due to the format, all players have to be in korea for the qualifiers, hence FULL REGION LOCK.
if for you a region lock is because you've to be somewhere to play a qualifier i can't do anything...
the real rule is
Restrictions:
You must be at least Master league on the European server. You must be a European citizen or posses a working visa for a European country.
It implies it. All the foreigners who tried for GSL essentially lived in Korea for a period of time. Artosis, Scarlette and State. And let's be honest, GSL doesn't have dedicated qualifiers for players outside of Korea. Never had, and never will. And I'll state it again, which makes it essentially FULL REGION LOCKED.
writing it in caps doesn't make it any truer.
Let him be. I guess he is angry that there are no foreigners in Ro8 GSL b/c of region lock. edit. i mean full region lock ofc.
On June 05 2014 02:53 m0ck wrote: [quote] Yes, just imagine how much it would cost them to fly out their players to WCS NA. Of course, their players could participate in GSL. The WCS tournament that takes place around the corner. But no, they would rather make a fly-by to America, and by god they should be compensated for doing that.
You are out of your mind.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
exaggeration is a way of lie
it's just a straight up lie. the GSL is just a full lan event.
*sigh* can't believe I have to explain this. WCS AM , the AM qualifiers require the players to live inside AM to participate. While there are other qualifiers for outsiders with limited openings. Hence why violet participated in the AM portion of the qualifiers, and therefore soft region lock GSL, due to the format, all players have to be in korea for the qualifiers, hence FULL REGION LOCK.
if for you a region lock is because you've to be somewhere to play a qualifier i can't do anything...
the real rule is
Restrictions:
You must be at least Master league on the European server. You must be a European citizen or posses a working visa for a European country.
It implies it. All the foreigners who tried for GSL essentially lived in Korea for a period of time. Artosis, Scarlette and State. And let's be honest, GSL doesn't have dedicated qualifiers for players outside of Korea. Never had, and never will. And I'll state it again, which makes it essentially FULL REGION LOCKED.
So every MLG with open bracket are region locked, every like DH, etc.
HEY GUIS, LET'S FLY THE CHINESE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GSL EVERY SEASON. THAT'LL WORK OUT GREAT. I'M SURE ACCOMODATION IN SEOUL IS COMPLETELY FREE AND THIS IS AN AWESOME PRACTICAL IDEA.
Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
exaggeration is a way of lie
it's just a straight up lie. the GSL is just a full lan event.
*sigh* can't believe I have to explain this. WCS AM , the AM qualifiers require the players to live inside AM to participate. While there are other qualifiers for outsiders with limited openings. Hence why violet participated in the AM portion of the qualifiers, and therefore soft region lock GSL, due to the format, all players have to be in korea for the qualifiers, hence FULL REGION LOCK.
if for you a region lock is because you've to be somewhere to play a qualifier i can't do anything...
the real rule is
Restrictions:
You must be at least Master league on the European server. You must be a European citizen or posses a working visa for a European country.
It implies it. All the foreigners who tried for GSL essentially lived in Korea for a period of time. Artosis, Scarlette and State. And let's be honest, GSL doesn't have dedicated qualifiers for players outside of Korea. Never had, and never will. And I'll state it again, which makes it essentially FULL REGION LOCKED.
writing it in caps doesn't make it any truer.
too lazy to bold. full region locked happy?
edit:
On June 05 2014 03:43 Faust852 wrote: So every MLG with open bracket are region locked, every like DH, etc.
you have to be in the region to play... think it through.
First of all, i messaged everyone i know from blizzard before making tweet either a)didnt reply me back or b) didnt gave me a real response or give me stuff liek this [03/06/2014 09:01:15 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: mexico is considered central america.. [03/06/2014 09:01:19 p.m.] major: rofl [03/06/2014 09:02:05 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: or not.. [03/06/2014 09:02:08 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: doesn't matter to me [03/06/2014 09:02:51 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: I'm not doing the flights, so if is only $500 like I'm pretty sure it is, I guess I wish you the best of luck.
than dont give me the contact of whoever is doing the flights?
a flight from my city to lax can cost up to 700$ normally is 600-650 tho, than 100 usd per way of taxi thats another 200$ that could be almost 400$. im not rich, i dont have a team - yes koreans flights cost more but when u been doing wcs for 6 seasons and 5 of them you paid all cost for NA players than change it for this season. is not fair. especially when they said they wouldnt support KR players with travel fees when they first created WCS america, since when i was in korea i asked would u guys cover anything from my travel if i qualify for wcs am season 1? and they gave me a no. only players from NA get covered.
On June 05 2014 03:02 eScaper-tsunami wrote: [quote] Actually this is essentially the root of the problem. There is no WCS Asia. GSL has always been a different format from current WCS tournaments - online play, then offline play. Blizzard needs to step up and start explore new solutions to better accomodate each region. There's a surplus of korean players flying all over the world incurring high travel costs, it's time to get a 2nd Asiatic Tournament and full region lock on WCS AM/EU.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
exaggeration is a way of lie
it's just a straight up lie. the GSL is just a full lan event.
*sigh* can't believe I have to explain this. WCS AM , the AM qualifiers require the players to live inside AM to participate. While there are other qualifiers for outsiders with limited openings. Hence why violet participated in the AM portion of the qualifiers, and therefore soft region lock GSL, due to the format, all players have to be in korea for the qualifiers, hence FULL REGION LOCK.
if for you a region lock is because you've to be somewhere to play a qualifier i can't do anything...
the real rule is
Restrictions:
You must be at least Master league on the European server. You must be a European citizen or posses a working visa for a European country.
It implies it. All the foreigners who tried for GSL essentially lived in Korea for a period of time. Artosis, Scarlette and State. And let's be honest, GSL doesn't have dedicated qualifiers for players outside of Korea. Never had, and never will. And I'll state it again, which makes it essentially FULL REGION LOCKED.
On June 05 2014 03:47 MajOr wrote: First of all, i messaged everyone i know from blizzard before making tweet either a)didnt reply me back or b) didnt gave me a real response or give me stuff liek this [03/06/2014 09:01:15 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: mexico is considered central america.. [03/06/2014 09:01:19 p.m.] major: rofl [03/06/2014 09:02:05 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: or not.. [03/06/2014 09:02:08 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: doesn't matter to me [03/06/2014 09:02:51 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: I'm not doing the flights, so if is only $500 like I'm pretty sure it is, I guess I wish you the best of luck.
than dont give me the contact of whoever is doing the flights?
a flight from my city to lax can cost up to 700$ normally is 600-650 tho, than 100 usd per way of taxi thats another 200$ that could be almost 400$. im not rich, i dont have a team - yes koreans flights cost more but when u been doing wcs for 6 seasons and 5 of them you paid all cost for NA players than change it for this season. is not fair. especially when they said they wouldnt support KR players with travel fees when they first created WCS america, since when i was in korea i asked would u guys cover anything from my travel if i qualify for wcs am season 1? and they gave me a no. only players from NA get covered.
From which city are you btw? I'm almost certains people in here could find you a flight for less than 500$. If you are from Mexico city, it's already less than 400.
The way that Major presented the problem is childish at best He no longer deserves understanding from Blizzard. Fortunately for us if he forfeits he harms himself more than anyone. If money is all that matters he should play better so that he gets a bigger prize. hard to root for him now in my opinion.
On June 05 2014 03:47 MajOr wrote: First of all, i messaged everyone i know from blizzard before making tweet either a)didnt reply me back or b) didnt gave me a real response or give me stuff liek this [03/06/2014 09:01:15 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: mexico is considered central america.. [03/06/2014 09:01:19 p.m.] major: rofl [03/06/2014 09:02:05 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: or not.. [03/06/2014 09:02:08 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: doesn't matter to me [03/06/2014 09:02:51 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: I'm not doing the flights, so if is only $500 like I'm pretty sure it is, I guess I wish you the best of luck.
than dont give me the contact of whoever is doing the flights?
a flight from my city to lax can cost up to 700$ normally is 600-650 tho, than 100 usd per way of taxi thats another 200$ that could be almost 400$. im not rich, i dont have a team - yes koreans flights cost more but when u been doing wcs for 6 seasons and 5 of them you paid all cost for NA players than change it for this season. is not fair. especially when they said they wouldnt support KR players with travel fees when they first created WCS america, since when i was in korea i asked would u guys cover anything from my travel if i qualify for wcs am season 1? and they gave me a no. only players from NA get covered.
Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
Also, you are guaranteed 3K so even if you had to borrow from someone you know you can easily pay them back. Obviously sucks if Blizzards allotment won't cover your expenses. But if you forfeit, as mentioned in this thread, you would be in 17th place and lose 1K automatically.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
On June 05 2014 03:47 MajOr wrote: First of all, i messaged everyone i know from blizzard before making tweet either a)didnt reply me back or b) didnt gave me a real response or give me stuff liek this [03/06/2014 09:01:15 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: mexico is considered central america.. [03/06/2014 09:01:19 p.m.] major: rofl [03/06/2014 09:02:05 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: or not.. [03/06/2014 09:02:08 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: doesn't matter to me [03/06/2014 09:02:51 p.m.] Daniel 'pHaRSiDE' Brooks: I'm not doing the flights, so if is only $500 like I'm pretty sure it is, I guess I wish you the best of luck.
than dont give me the contact of whoever is doing the flights?
a flight from my city to lax can cost up to 700$ normally is 600-650 tho, than 100 usd per way of taxi thats another 200$ that could be almost 400$. im not rich, i dont have a team - yes koreans flights cost more but when u been doing wcs for 6 seasons and 5 of them you paid all cost for NA players than change it for this season. is not fair. especially when they said they wouldnt support KR players with travel fees when they first created WCS america, since when i was in korea i asked would u guys cover anything from my travel if i qualify for wcs am season 1? and they gave me a no. only players from NA get covered.
Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
im already paying my own stuff to MLG anaheim, that is like 2weeks before ro16 that cost me around 900 in total, 600 in plane and 300 from hotel(shared with desrow) im assuming wcs give free hotel, but im not sure i cant be sure about anything when i message whoever is supposed to know dosent really tell me anything.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
hey, the community supports you as well so I see no problem there
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
Full region lock would kill WCS AM. Right now there aren't enough consistent and good AM players to bring in viewers. The tournament would get abysmal viewer numbers, be plagued with forfeits, and quickly become irrelevant. Plus, isolating AM players from the koreans isn't doing them any favours either. Playing against the Koreans who are better players causes AM players to have to work harder and play better if they want to compete and only raises the level of play in AM. I like the soft-region lock we have now and if it became AM only players, I would probably lose a lot of interest.
3.) The difference is that GSL is FULL REGION LOCKED.
exaggeration is a way of lie
it's just a straight up lie. the GSL is just a full lan event.
*sigh* can't believe I have to explain this. WCS AM , the AM qualifiers require the players to live inside AM to participate. While there are other qualifiers for outsiders with limited openings. Hence why violet participated in the AM portion of the qualifiers, and therefore soft region lock GSL, due to the format, all players have to be in korea for the qualifiers, hence FULL REGION LOCK.
if for you a region lock is because you've to be somewhere to play a qualifier i can't do anything...
the real rule is
Restrictions:
You must be at least Master league on the European server. You must be a European citizen or posses a working visa for a European country.
It implies it. All the foreigners who tried for GSL essentially lived in Korea for a period of time. Artosis, Scarlette and State. And let's be honest, GSL doesn't have dedicated qualifiers for players outside of Korea. Never had, and never will. And I'll state it again, which makes it essentially FULL REGION LOCKED.
writing it in caps doesn't make it any truer.
too lazy to bold. full region locked happy?
edit:
On June 05 2014 03:43 Faust852 wrote: So every MLG with open bracket are region locked, every like DH, etc.
you have to be in the region to play... think it through.
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
If Blizzard was truly all about the bottom line, then they'd do away with WCS completely and focus on Hearthstone. WCS is, more or less, a passion project for them.
I'm actually largely with Major on this, it does seem a bit ridiculous.
Blizzard enabled the farce that is WCS NA to develop by not region locking in the first place. It should have been (IMO) with some kind of region/residency requirement. This doesn't mean no Koreans, it means local players + the likes of Polt and Violet who have a history of engagement in the scene, and by their presence, in however small a way improve the players around them.
Why are WCS overheads so high? Why are content providers going out of business? Perhaps part of it is paying out for all these flights? Iirc (may be wrong) the WCS contract came with it certain guarantees of flight stipends right?
IMO There should also be two Asian-based WCS competitions, keep the KR one as the one of ultimate prestige, but also hold one that could encompass the rest of that area of the world. Australians are playing WCS NA because there is no other region that suits them outside of the stacked Korean region. Chinese players are playing cross-server to NA as well.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Just make a complete region lock. Its so fucking sad to see WCS NA just packed with Koreans and the odd random NA player who gets knocked out in the first or second round. Region lock and full travel expenses covered.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
Flying out of and into big cities costs more... Why don't you look at flights from a town close to you and see if that's cheaper, take a cab to that airport or bus or have someone drop you off. I fly a lot and all of my flights are through multiple places and not direct. It's a bit of a hassle but it's cheaper.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
You could always read the papers you were provided with and not act like a spoiled child when something isn't instantly given to you. Travel costs money. Blizzard will reimburse you up to a limit, the same as for everyone in NA. If your circumstances are so problematic that it costs you 1k+ dollars just to get to LA, that is not their fault or responsibility.
If you contact Blizzard in a calm and mature way, I'm sure they will make it clear to you. A strange and passive-aggressive tweet, perhaps not so much.
I just hope Major gets to go there and this thing doesn't blow up and distract him. Travel should not be his main concern, playing should. I hope Blizzard helps him out or he can find a cheaper connection. Yes Major is a bit special/childish in the way he says things and behaves, but he is a damn good foreign player and we need those in WSC AM.
So good luck Major, I hope it gets sorted out and you arrive safely and in top form!
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
That is, what I was trying to tell him, that for example DH or EPS are exactly the same as GSL regarding region lock, but noone would call them totally region locked.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
I've thrown money at you despite your random times of bickering haha xD
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
That is, what I was trying to tell him, that for example DH or EPS are exactly the same as GSL regarding region lock, but noone would call them totally region locked.
Qualified players from IEM, HSC and NASL were subsidized (source liquipedia). And I never said everyone... >.> I gave examples of premier tournaments to name a few. Seeded players I don't know.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
u need a better hobby Major, did u read in this thread that you do not have to take taxis b/c WCS has some driver that will pick u up or something? Be sure you've read all the WCS stuff... taxis suck.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
hahaha ok btw i deserve the spot just cause i won it in a fair way(ladder rules of your tournament) and i can do w.e i want with my spot after that not that i tried to forfeit i tried to make it work playing from the lan i didnt overbook it on purpose they told me they would have a good computer for me to play on. they didnt what you want me to do?
and u cant call me playing like an idiot. have you seen your self play? lol
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
Guys take it to pm's please if you have personal qualms, thanks.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
If you're bragging about winning so much money, how are you complaining about not being able to afford to go to LA on your own? Just take what Blizzard is willing to give you and cover the rest yourself... It can't be more than $400, after Blizzard's stipend.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
Guys take it to pm's please if you have personal qualms, thanks.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
Guys take it to pm's please if you have personal qualms, thanks.
Are you serious? This is the most entertainment I've had all day man!
he forfeited his spot in homestorycup and some other tournament I can not remember and because of that I think this whole thing is pretty simple: major is afraid of flying
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
That is, what I was trying to tell him, that for example DH or EPS are exactly the same as GSL regarding region lock, but noone would call them totally region locked.
Qualified players from IEM, HSC and NASL were subsidized (source liquipedia). And I never said everyone... >.> I gave examples of premier tournaments to name a few. Seeded players I don't know.
Yes, but that also means, that for example 75% of HSC players don't get subsidized (at least not officially). Carmac explicitly stated, that IEM invites also have to pay for everythong themselves. You said in an earlier post, that there is "usually partial/full subsidized travelling", but that is just the case for a very small minority of players.
On June 05 2014 03:50 Ctone23 wrote: Maybe the community can help you out then. I hope you realize several other players would sacrifice a lot to be in your position. Hope it works out.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
haha.
Now this is something TB is definitely an expert on.
I'm sure with his attitude the community will be just be falling over themselves to throw money at him.
what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
hahaha ok btw i deserve the spot just cause i won it in a fair way(ladder rules of your tournament) and i can do w.e i want with my spot after that not that i tried to forfeit i tried to make it work playing from the lan i didnt overbook it on purpose they told me they would have a good computer for me to play on. they didnt what you want me to do?
and u cant call me playing like an idiot. have you seen your self play? lol
Sure, you can do whatever you want with your spot. What you chose to do was make a mockery of the event and make yourself look bad. In doing so you also tanked any possibility of that tournament ever coming back, sponsors won't touch it now thanks to the forfeits. They don't see the American scene as being something worthy of support and at this point I agree with them. I personally have no intention of doing NA only events anymore. You made a mockery of the event and the NA scene, seriously, you literally hurt your own scene which is a bit funny considering you're now trying to ask Blizzard to support it more.
Charity begins at home.
I'm sure my play is very relevant to the discussion. After all, I am a progamer....
Your record against my team is 16-6 btw and no that's not in your favour. Next time you want to talk about being busy beating up my players you might want to check Aligulac first
On June 05 2014 03:54 MajOr wrote: [quote] what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
Guys take it to pm's please if you have personal qualms, thanks.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
In my opinion I'd rather see Courage in the Ro16 over Major so if I'm being honest here, I kind of hoping he does forfeit. It appears not many people enjoy him as a player anyway, if I had to guess people only root for him because he's a terran foreigner...
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
Guys take it to pm's please if you have personal qualms, thanks.
that would be nice, yes.
But what will entertain me till tomorrow?
You can already prepare the billion jokes based off this in the RO16 preview.
On June 05 2014 04:12 SidianTheBard wrote: In my opinion I'd rather see Courage in the Ro16 over Major so if I'm being honest here, I kind of hoping he does forfeit. It appears not many people enjoy him as a player anyway, if I had to guess people only root for him because he's a terran foreigner...
Yeah it'd be fantastic to see Courage in the Ro16, just do Ling/Bling floods every single game and never transition, sick stuff man.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
Guys take it to pm's please if you have personal qualms, thanks.
that would be nice, yes.
But what will entertain me till tomorrow?
Yes, I would appreciate it if this could stay public! I was just searching for a new series to watch, but nothing will come close to this.
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
That is, what I was trying to tell him, that for example DH or EPS are exactly the same as GSL regarding region lock, but noone would call them totally region locked.
Qualified players from IEM, HSC and NASL were subsidized (source liquipedia). And I never said everyone... >.> I gave examples of premier tournaments to name a few. Seeded players I don't know.
Yes, but that also means, that for example 75% of HSC players don't get subsidized (at least not officially). Carmac explicitly stated, that IEM invites also have to pay for everythong themselves. You said in an earlier post, that there is "usually partial/full subsidized travelling", but that is just the case for a very small minority of players.
Sorry, I should've clarified previously that I was implying qualifiers. Since I was noting the differences in GSL and other premier tournaments. The differences in GSL qualifiers and other premier tournaments qualifiers makes GSL far more region locked.
edit: Why am I apologizing
Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify.
On June 05 2014 03:54 MajOr wrote: [quote] what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
hahaha ok btw i deserve the spot just cause i won it in a fair way(ladder rules of your tournament) and i can do w.e i want with my spot after that not that i tried to forfeit i tried to make it work playing from the lan i didnt overbook it on purpose they told me they would have a good computer for me to play on. they didnt what you want me to do?
and u cant call me playing like an idiot. have you seen your self play? lol
Sure, you can do whatever you want with your spot. What you chose to do was make a mockery of the event and make yourself look bad. In doing so you also tanked any possibility of that tournament ever coming back, sponsors won't touch it now thanks to the forfeits. They don't see the American scene as being something worthy of support and at this point I agree with them. I personally have no intention of doing NA only events anymore. You made a mockery of the event and the NA scene, seriously, you literally hurt your own scene which is a bit funny considering you're now trying to ask Blizzard to support it more.
I'm just sitting here pressing F5, don't mind me. Surprisingly there actually is one thing that would excuse that kind of behavior, and that is if Major approved participatin with different rules and them being changed midway without proper contact and in a timely mannaer. Otherwise it's just a case of first world problems, I'm fine either way.
It's been only recently that I started to understand that there's also money invlved and it's not just competition for competition's sake. I used to loathe EG's team model, but that was because I never fully understood what it really was, my view clouded by reading about and watching Korean teams play. It's just that when you read shit like this, and then watch Jaedong talk about how he lost courage 9 times before even becoming a progamer, which took him either a year or 2 (can't remember) all the while most probably having to pay a fee to live in his clan's teamhouse (cause that's how they operate), or the Korean scene who have one individual tournament at home which is basically like a gladiator arena... I don't know I just bacome sad, as lame as it sounds. But also my view of the foreign scene becomes clearer, so there's some good in this I guess
On June 05 2014 03:54 MajOr wrote: [quote] what you talking about? you read my skype nowdays? as i said i mesaged alot of people that should know about this involved with wcs, and they all ignored me what im supposed to do just sit there and do nothing? why you dont mnd your own shit.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
hahaha ok btw i deserve the spot just cause i won it in a fair way(ladder rules of your tournament) and i can do w.e i want with my spot after that not that i tried to forfeit i tried to make it work playing from the lan i didnt overbook it on purpose they told me they would have a good computer for me to play on. they didnt what you want me to do?
and u cant call me playing like an idiot. have you seen your self play? lol
Sure, you can do whatever you want with your spot. What you chose to do was make a mockery of the event and make yourself look bad. In doing so you also tanked any possibility of that tournament ever coming back, sponsors won't touch it now thanks to the forfeits. They don't see the American scene as being something worthy of support and at this point I agree with them. I personally have no intention of doing NA only events anymore. You made a mockery of the event and the NA scene, seriously, you literally hurt your own scene which is a bit funny considering you're now trying to ask Blizzard to support it more.
Charity begins at home.
I'm sure my play is very relevant to the discussion. After all, I am a progamer....
Your record against my team is 16-6 btw and no that's not in your favour. Next time you want to talk about being busy beating up my players you might want to check Aligulac first
uh. its not like i didnt try to play your tournament i tried, the other tournament told me they had a computer good enough for me to play in your event. i wanted to play i tried to play simply didnt work out it was a horrible pc that couldnt even run sc2 if you cant undestearnd that. nothing i can do
and u cant blame me for your tournament not running again when i told you i was gonna be playing another tournament in those dates and YOU agreed with the conditions i gave you, that the other tournament would give me a good pc to play on. they didnt nothing neither you or i could do. so i have no clue why you bring this thing back up
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
That is, what I was trying to tell him, that for example DH or EPS are exactly the same as GSL regarding region lock, but noone would call them totally region locked.
Qualified players from IEM, HSC and NASL were subsidized (source liquipedia). And I never said everyone... >.> I gave examples of premier tournaments to name a few. Seeded players I don't know.
Yes, but that also means, that for example 75% of HSC players don't get subsidized (at least not officially). Carmac explicitly stated, that IEM invites also have to pay for everythong themselves. You said in an earlier post, that there is "usually partial/full subsidized travelling", but that is just the case for a very small minority of players.
Sorry, I should've clarified previously that I was implying qualifiers. Since I was noting the differences in GSL and other premier tournaments. The differences in GSL qualifiers and other premier tournaments qualifiers makes it far more region locked.
I can kinda see your point, but personally I'd still disagree with it, since the technical circumstances are just a big obstacle, but no definite end for any player. Anyway, we're getting away from the topic, I'd suggest we stop this side-discussion at this point.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
Guys take it to pm's please if you have personal qualms, thanks.
that would be nice, yes.
But what will entertain me till tomorrow?
Yes, I would appreciate it if this could stay public! I was just searching for a new series to watch, but nothing will come close to this.
Well, it's just sad this thread couldn't come up one day later till HSC - I'm sure Take would have something to add about Major and travel-expenses...
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
If Blizzard was truly all about the bottom line, then they'd do away with WCS completely and focus on Hearthstone. WCS is, more or less, a passion project for them.
They need to maintain some level of market share with LOTV.
A quick lesson. You forfeited the right to say "mind your own shit" as soon as you posted the crap all over Twitter. You made it public, deal with the consequences.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
hahaha ok btw i deserve the spot just cause i won it in a fair way(ladder rules of your tournament) and i can do w.e i want with my spot after that not that i tried to forfeit i tried to make it work playing from the lan i didnt overbook it on purpose they told me they would have a good computer for me to play on. they didnt what you want me to do?
and u cant call me playing like an idiot. have you seen your self play? lol
Sure, you can do whatever you want with your spot. What you chose to do was make a mockery of the event and make yourself look bad. In doing so you also tanked any possibility of that tournament ever coming back, sponsors won't touch it now thanks to the forfeits. They don't see the American scene as being something worthy of support and at this point I agree with them. I personally have no intention of doing NA only events anymore. You made a mockery of the event and the NA scene, seriously, you literally hurt your own scene which is a bit funny considering you're now trying to ask Blizzard to support it more.
Charity begins at home.
I'm sure my play is very relevant to the discussion. After all, I am a progamer....
Your record against my team is 16-6 btw and no that's not in your favour. Next time you want to talk about being busy beating up my players you might want to check Aligulac first
uh. its not like i didnt try to play your tournament i tried, the other tournament told me they had a computer good enough for me to play in your event. i wanted to play i tried to play simply didnt work out it was a horrible pc that couldnt even run sc2 if you cant undestearnd that. nothing i can do
and u cant blame me for your tournament not running again when i told you i was gonna be playing another tournament in those dates and YOU agreed with the conditions i gave you, that the other tournament would give me a good pc to play on. they didnt nothing neither you or i could do. so i have no clue why you bring this thing back up
I made the mistake of trusting that you would play a series to completion even if the conditions were not so great, because that's what a professional player would do. It was a good learning experience for me. As I recall at the time you said your PC was runnnig sc2 at "about 50fps", which is not ideal but it's certainly not a "horrible pc that couldnt even run sc2". Let's call it what it is. Your were in a sub-par environment, which sucks, but it happens, you were losing, you tilted and forfeited.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
Guys take it to pm's please if you have personal qualms, thanks.
that would be nice, yes.
But what will entertain me till tomorrow?
Yes, I would appreciate it if this could stay public! I was just searching for a new series to watch, but nothing will come close to this.
Well, it's just sad this thread couldn't come up one day later till HSC - I'm sure Take would have something to add about Major and travel-expenses...
? yes i didnt go hsc he got his money back? why i didnt go? cause i was sick the day of the flight i have said this alot of times already
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
That is, what I was trying to tell him, that for example DH or EPS are exactly the same as GSL regarding region lock, but noone would call them totally region locked.
Qualified players from IEM, HSC and NASL were subsidized (source liquipedia). And I never said everyone... >.> I gave examples of premier tournaments to name a few. Seeded players I don't know.
Yes, but that also means, that for example 75% of HSC players don't get subsidized (at least not officially). Carmac explicitly stated, that IEM invites also have to pay for everythong themselves. You said in an earlier post, that there is "usually partial/full subsidized travelling", but that is just the case for a very small minority of players.
IEM won't even provide players with thongs o0? Outrageous.
I really don't understand the uproar here, players have been paying their own travel costs since BW. You are guaranteed 3k for just attending. It should be more than fine to cover travel costs and upkeep, especially given the 500 dollars already provided.
? nope you still can deal with your own shit, you dont have to put your nose on every TL thread.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
hahaha ok btw i deserve the spot just cause i won it in a fair way(ladder rules of your tournament) and i can do w.e i want with my spot after that not that i tried to forfeit i tried to make it work playing from the lan i didnt overbook it on purpose they told me they would have a good computer for me to play on. they didnt what you want me to do?
and u cant call me playing like an idiot. have you seen your self play? lol
Sure, you can do whatever you want with your spot. What you chose to do was make a mockery of the event and make yourself look bad. In doing so you also tanked any possibility of that tournament ever coming back, sponsors won't touch it now thanks to the forfeits. They don't see the American scene as being something worthy of support and at this point I agree with them. I personally have no intention of doing NA only events anymore. You made a mockery of the event and the NA scene, seriously, you literally hurt your own scene which is a bit funny considering you're now trying to ask Blizzard to support it more.
Charity begins at home.
I'm sure my play is very relevant to the discussion. After all, I am a progamer....
Your record against my team is 16-6 btw and no that's not in your favour. Next time you want to talk about being busy beating up my players you might want to check Aligulac first
uh. its not like i didnt try to play your tournament i tried, the other tournament told me they had a computer good enough for me to play in your event. i wanted to play i tried to play simply didnt work out it was a horrible pc that couldnt even run sc2 if you cant undestearnd that. nothing i can do
and u cant blame me for your tournament not running again when i told you i was gonna be playing another tournament in those dates and YOU agreed with the conditions i gave you, that the other tournament would give me a good pc to play on. they didnt nothing neither you or i could do. so i have no clue why you bring this thing back up
I made the mistake of trusting that you would play a series to completion even if the conditions were not so great, because that's what a professional player would do. It was a good learning experience for me. As I recall at the time you said your PC was runnnig sc2 at "about 50fps", which is not ideal but it's certainly not a "horrible pc that couldnt even run sc2". Let's call it what it is. Your were in a sub-par environment, which sucks, but it happens, you were losing, you tilted and forfeited.
no the computer couldnt really run sc2 at all it i still remember the game on polar where he killed 10 marines with 1 banshee cause my marines would literally stuter yes i was mad about it, but i tried to play it on thats why i played 3games but to be honest i shouldnt had play a single one. it really was unplayable. i even tried to rush back to home to play from my house but i couldnt leave the venue since i had 1 more match. yes it sucks i wanted to play but u cant just come and say i killed your tournamnet cause i couldnt play.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
That is, what I was trying to tell him, that for example DH or EPS are exactly the same as GSL regarding region lock, but noone would call them totally region locked.
Qualified players from IEM, HSC and NASL were subsidized (source liquipedia). And I never said everyone... >.> I gave examples of premier tournaments to name a few. Seeded players I don't know.
Yes, but that also means, that for example 75% of HSC players don't get subsidized (at least not officially). Carmac explicitly stated, that IEM invites also have to pay for everythong themselves. You said in an earlier post, that there is "usually partial/full subsidized travelling", but that is just the case for a very small minority of players.
IEM won't even provide players with thongs o0? Outrageous.
I really don't understand the uproar here, players have been paying their own travel costs since BW. You are guaranteed 3k for just attending. It should be more than fine to cover travel costs and upkeep, especially given the 500 dollars already provided.
There is no uproar to find. I just said, that most tournaments do not pay to much of travell subsidation, so we should not expect Blizzard to be that big of an exception.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
Blizzard will never see a profit from WCS. Starcraft 2 is never going to explode, it's already past its prime, the best it can hope to do is slowly grow back to where it was in it's golden era and even then, Blizzard would still not be making a profit on the absurd costs of running WCS.
Make no mistake, they are passionate about their game, passionate enough to throw money at it with no possibility of returns. Exposure exists to generate profit, that's what it's for. WCS does not do that.
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
That is, what I was trying to tell him, that for example DH or EPS are exactly the same as GSL regarding region lock, but noone would call them totally region locked.
Qualified players from IEM, HSC and NASL were subsidized (source liquipedia). And I never said everyone... >.> I gave examples of premier tournaments to name a few. Seeded players I don't know.
Yes, but that also means, that for example 75% of HSC players don't get subsidized (at least not officially). Carmac explicitly stated, that IEM invites also have to pay for everythong themselves. You said in an earlier post, that there is "usually partial/full subsidized travelling", but that is just the case for a very small minority of players.
IEM won't even provide players with thongs o0? Outrageous.
I really don't understand the uproar here, players have been paying their own travel costs since BW. You are guaranteed 3k for just attending. It should be more than fine to cover travel costs and upkeep, especially given the 500 dollars already provided.
There is no uproar to find. I just said, that most tournaments do not pay to much of travell subsidation, so we should not expect Blizzard to be that big of an exception.
Goddamn it man! You're telling the SC2 community that it CAN'T act self-entitled? What the hell is wrong with you!?
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
That is, what I was trying to tell him, that for example DH or EPS are exactly the same as GSL regarding region lock, but noone would call them totally region locked.
Qualified players from IEM, HSC and NASL were subsidized (source liquipedia). And I never said everyone... >.> I gave examples of premier tournaments to name a few. Seeded players I don't know.
Yes, but that also means, that for example 75% of HSC players don't get subsidized (at least not officially). Carmac explicitly stated, that IEM invites also have to pay for everythong themselves. You said in an earlier post, that there is "usually partial/full subsidized travelling", but that is just the case for a very small minority of players.
IEM won't even provide players with thongs o0? Outrageous.
I really don't understand the uproar here, players have been paying their own travel costs since BW. You are guaranteed 3k for just attending. It should be more than fine to cover travel costs and upkeep, especially given the 500 dollars already provided.
There is no uproar to find. I just said, that most tournaments do not pay to much of travell subsidation, so we should not expect Blizzard to be that big of an exception.
I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the widespread and rather silly notion that travel expenses is something players should not have to deal with, when so has been the case since Esports was even a thing. I'm agreeing, I just wanted to quote you because your misspelling of everything made it quite funny given the context.
The battle : On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t. On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he might qualify for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
On June 05 2014 04:33 ppp wrote: The battle : On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t. On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he qualified for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
On June 05 2014 04:33 ppp wrote: The battle : On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t. On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he qualified for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
No offence to both of you. I don't care that much
I strongly doubt TB's forays into Esports were ever about getting rich. Setting your money on fire might be a worse idea than Esports if you're trying to make a profit, but just barely.
Came here for major vs tb and was not disappointed one bit! Wax trying to make the switch from heel to face by telling people to play nice was also amusing.
Pls name one premier tournament other than TSL, were you don't have to be in the region to play.
Most tournaments have multiple online qualifiers (IEM, NASL, HSC to name a few). Then there's usually partial/full subsidized travelling for those who qualify. Which is essentially the same as WCS format. But the difference is that GSL has none of those, there's no tournament out there that's more region locked than GSL.
DH also has no qualifiers, people have to pay that for themselves. EPS has no online qualifiers and still seems to get overrun by koreans next season. HSC is mostly invites, IEM partially. AFAIK at least HSC has a certain travelling budget for qualifiers as well, although that is pretty big IIRC.
Almost no tournaments do subsidized travel anymore. This guy claiming that everyone is doing it is nonsense. When there is subsidized travel it's generally one-two spots at the most, very rarely a full ride. The vast majority of people playing in those tournaments are paying out of their own pocket to go.
GSLs only region lock is the fact that nobody outside of Korea has the skill or the funds to play in it.
That is, what I was trying to tell him, that for example DH or EPS are exactly the same as GSL regarding region lock, but noone would call them totally region locked.
Qualified players from IEM, HSC and NASL were subsidized (source liquipedia). And I never said everyone... >.> I gave examples of premier tournaments to name a few. Seeded players I don't know.
Yes, but that also means, that for example 75% of HSC players don't get subsidized (at least not officially). Carmac explicitly stated, that IEM invites also have to pay for everythong themselves. You said in an earlier post, that there is "usually partial/full subsidized travelling", but that is just the case for a very small minority of players.
IEM won't even provide players with thongs o0? Outrageous.
I really don't understand the uproar here, players have been paying their own travel costs since BW. You are guaranteed 3k for just attending. It should be more than fine to cover travel costs and upkeep, especially given the 500 dollars already provided.
There is no uproar to find. I just said, that most tournaments do not pay to much of travell subsidation, so we should not expect Blizzard to be that big of an exception.
I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the widespread and rather silly notion that travel expenses is something players should not have to deal with, when so has been the case since Esports was even a thing. I'm agreeing, I just wanted to quote you because your misspelling of everything made it quite funny given the context.
Oh, I didn't even see that until now. In this case everythIng is fine and I don't feel misunderstood anymore.
On June 05 2014 04:33 ppp wrote: The battle : On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t. On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he qualified for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
No offence to both of you. I don't care that much
I strongly doubt TB's forays into Esports were ever about getting rich. Setting your money on fire might be a worse idea than Esports if you're trying to make a profit, but just barely.
On June 05 2014 04:33 ppp wrote: The battle : On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t. On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he qualified for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
No offence to both of you. I don't care that much
I strongly doubt TB's forays into Esports were ever about getting rich. Setting your money on fire might be a worse idea than Esports if you're trying to make a profit, but just barely.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a direct or indirect return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
On June 05 2014 04:33 ppp wrote: The battle : On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t. On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he qualified for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
No offence to both of you. I don't care that much
I strongly doubt TB's forays into Esports were ever about getting rich. Setting your money on fire might be a worse idea than Esports if you're trying to make a profit, but just barely.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
Blizzard will never see a profit from WCS. Starcraft 2 is never going to explode, it's already past its prime, the best it can hope to do is slowly grow back to where it was in it's golden era and even then, Blizzard would still not be making a profit on the absurd costs of running WCS.
Make no mistake, they are passionate about their game, passionate enough to throw money at it with no possibility of returns. Exposure exists to generate profit, that's what it's for. WCS does not do that.
At a minimum, they have incentive to bolster their support ahead of LotV.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
I don't get it. Your team sponsors you and pays your way, if they can, not Blizzard. Otherwise, you pay your own way if you can. You choose to play in Blizzard's tournament. I'd be pleased that Blizzard chose to subsidise even a portion of my travel costs to play in the region's best tournament.
On June 05 2014 04:33 ppp wrote: The battle : On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t. On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he qualified for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
No offence to both of you. I don't care that much
I strongly doubt TB's forays into Esports were ever about getting rich. Setting your money on fire might be a worse idea than Esports if you're trying to make a profit, but just barely.
It has to be said..... unless you're Riot.
Does Riot make money? I kinda doubt it...
Not directly off of the events probably, but the amount of exposure that doing shit like selling out the Staples Center brings in can't be ignored.
Plus if I am not mistaken (haven't played League in at least a year) they put out skins and such to commemorate various tournaments. So they make money there too.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft.
On June 05 2014 01:55 sharkie wrote: Sorry, but this just sucks by blizzard... you cant just say all NA players get 500 and all non NA get 1k - thats unprofessional
I am sure there are places in NA where it costs more than 500 to go to LA...
God damn it paying more for ppl flying from the other globe is "unprofessional"? There is a common sense called "estimated cost" when running business and doing cost plans. Paying 1000$ for Korea and China is not enough and 500$ for Mexico is more than enough. In the end Koreans and Chinese end up paying more out of their/their team's own.
You do realize the prices listed aren't after tax, airport fee's and are 1 way ....... Don't try and chastise someone using shit information. Just makes you look like a dumbass.
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why
i am too busy beating your easy players
I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it.
ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain.
For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"
hahaha ok btw i deserve the spot just cause i won it in a fair way(ladder rules of your tournament) and i can do w.e i want with my spot after that not that i tried to forfeit i tried to make it work playing from the lan i didnt overbook it on purpose they told me they would have a good computer for me to play on. they didnt what you want me to do?
and u cant call me playing like an idiot. have you seen your self play? lol
Sure, you can do whatever you want with your spot. What you chose to do was make a mockery of the event and make yourself look bad. In doing so you also tanked any possibility of that tournament ever coming back, sponsors won't touch it now thanks to the forfeits. They don't see the American scene as being something worthy of support and at this point I agree with them. I personally have no intention of doing NA only events anymore. You made a mockery of the event and the NA scene, seriously, you literally hurt your own scene which is a bit funny considering you're now trying to ask Blizzard to support it more.
Charity begins at home.
I'm sure my play is very relevant to the discussion. After all, I am a progamer....
Your record against my team is 16-6 btw and no that's not in your favour. Next time you want to talk about being busy beating up my players you might want to check Aligulac first
uh. its not like i didnt try to play your tournament i tried, the other tournament told me they had a computer good enough for me to play in your event. i wanted to play i tried to play simply didnt work out it was a horrible pc that couldnt even run sc2 if you cant undestearnd that. nothing i can do
and u cant blame me for your tournament not running again when i told you i was gonna be playing another tournament in those dates and YOU agreed with the conditions i gave you, that the other tournament would give me a good pc to play on. they didnt nothing neither you or i could do. so i have no clue why you bring this thing back up
I made the mistake of trusting that you would play a series to completion even if the conditions were not so great, because that's what a professional player would do. It was a good learning experience for me. As I recall at the time you said your PC was runnnig sc2 at "about 50fps", which is not ideal but it's certainly not a "horrible pc that couldnt even run sc2". Let's call it what it is. Your were in a sub-par environment, which sucks, but it happens, you were losing, you tilted and forfeited.
no the computer couldnt really run sc2 at all it i still remember the game on polar where he killed 10 marines with 1 banshee cause my marines would literally stuter yes i was mad about it, but i tried to play it on thats why i played 3games but to be honest i shouldnt had play a single one. it really was unplayable. i even tried to rush back to home to play from my house but i couldnt leave the venue since i had 1 more match. yes it sucks i wanted to play but u cant just come and say i killed your tournamnet cause i couldnt play.
I don't think you should've said ''I was too busy winning 10K in another tournament'' if you're completely apologetic about it now (and back when the event was going on)
More on-topic: Yes, Blizzard should probably cover all the flight costs. No, these $200 aren't something Major should really make a giant scene about considering he's walking away with money guaranteed. (quite a bunch more money)
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft.
There's a difference between selling a lot of copies of the game on its launch and maintaining it as a profitable business. Yes, a lot of people DID buy HotS, but that doesn't cover the costs of running WCS as a franchise year after year, because people aren't constantly buying the game.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
Blizzcon is another thing Blizz does that obviously doesn't make them money (maybe with the DirectTV subscriptions but definitely not before it) that they do just because they can and because they like doing it.
Blizzard isn't an evil corporation, I get fed up with some of the shit they do just as much as the next guy. But WCS is a perfect example of something that EA or Activision would never do because they are companies that really do only care about the money.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft.
They "made" money on SC2. They're certainly not making it now. WCS is costing them a lot of money, development of LoTV is costing them a lot of money and HotS sales have declined since the games' been out for over a year.
WCS is almost certainly in the red and always will be. More so than LCS for Riot, who at least have a way of constantly getting money out of their players since it's a F2P game with microtransactions. Even if I wanted to give Blizzard more money, there's no actual way to do it right now with SC2.
On June 05 2014 04:33 ppp wrote: The battle : On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t. On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he qualified for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
No offence to both of you. I don't care that much
I strongly doubt TB's forays into Esports were ever about getting rich. Setting your money on fire might be a worse idea than Esports if you're trying to make a profit, but just barely.
It has to be said..... unless you're Riot.
Does Riot make money? I kinda doubt it...
Not directly off of the events probably, but the amount of exposure that doing shit like selling out the Staples Center brings in can't be ignored.
Plus if I am not mistaken (haven't played League in at least a year) they put out skins and such to commemorate various tournaments. So they make money there too.
Tournament skins are free. It's entirely a marketing play. Also, they pay all the teams a salary, have a bunch of employees devoted only to the esports angle etc. I would guess that, taken alone, Riot esports is massively in the red.
On June 05 2014 01:30 Waxangel wrote: In 2014, Blizzard changed their policy to give more support to players outside of North America, giving a $1000 travel stipend to non-North American players while giving $500 to players inside the continent.* This coincided with the "soft" region-lock that was implemented in the region, which limited the number of non-North American players who could advance from the qualifiers.
Seems fair to me, it works like progressive taxes.
Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
Blizzcon is another thing Blizz does that obviously doesn't make them money (maybe with the DirectTV subscriptions but definitely not before it) that they do just because they can and because they like doing it.
Blizzard isn't an evil corporation, I get fed up with some of the shit they do just as much as the next guy. But WCS is a perfect example of something that EA or Activision would never do because they are companies that really do only care about the money.
Blizzcon is all about hype, revealing, and promotion. promotion promotion promotion. How many times have they revealed (and got us excited about) GIGANTIC things? Game expansions (MoP if I remember correctly being the last one) A lot of HearthStone stuff, Heart of the Swarm stuff and entire games like Heroes of the Storm. Seriously. Blizzcon is a big goldmine in terms of promotion and getting their products in the spotlight.
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
Oh my goodness thank the lord we might see this actually cool off.
On June 05 2014 01:55 sharkie wrote: Sorry, but this just sucks by blizzard... you cant just say all NA players get 500 and all non NA get 1k - thats unprofessional
I am sure there are places in NA where it costs more than 500 to go to LA...
God damn it paying more for ppl flying from the other globe is "unprofessional"? There is a common sense called "estimated cost" when running business and doing cost plans. Paying 1000$ for Korea and China is not enough and 500$ for Mexico is more than enough. In the end Koreans and Chinese end up paying more out of their/their team's own.
You do realize the prices listed aren't after tax, airport fee's and are 1 way ....... Don't try and chastise someone using shit information. Just makes you look like a dumbass.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
The CEO has to answer to the board of directors and the shareholders. And from a business perspective, there is a difference between donations and marketing: Marketing needs to have justification, risk management and projected ROI. Donations, however, do not. They are typically made to inflate public image and written off differently from a tax perspective. "The reality" is being CEO does not remove accountability to people that have equity in a company. Sorry but "liking" something does not mean you can section out millions of dollars on a budget pro forma basis without good reason.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft.
They "made" money on SC2. They're certainly not making it now. WCS is costing them a lot of money, development of LoTV is costing them a lot of money and HotS sales have declined since the games' been out for over a year.
WCS is almost certainly in the red and always will be. More so than LCS for Riot, who at least have a way of constantly getting money out of their players since it's a F2P game with microtransactions. Even if I wanted to give Blizzard more money, there's no actual way to do it right now with SC2.
Makes sense. I'm always baffled why Blizzard does so little to add extra monetization initiatives to SC2. For WoW they seem to do that just fine.
On June 05 2014 04:45 mikumegurine wrote: WCS itself no profit
but doesnt WCS = SC2 viewers, players, more potential customers of LotV?
not to mention keeping the Blizzard name brand out there
So what happens when LotV is released? There is no monetary incentive in the long run for Blizzard to give Sc2 more than token support. No way in hell that the sales of LotV will compensate for what they've spent on WCS so far. They have no viable ways to monetize the product past LotV, and even that will probably barely cover that year's WCS, it that.
Sc2 is a passion project, not a healthy marketing tool. If all they wanted to do was keep their brand name out there, they could mass produce cell phone games with no depth or creative integrity, They actually like the games they make, even if myself and many others sometimes(often) disagree vehemently about aspects of them. More credit to them for it.
Maybe they should just deduct his expenses from his prize money. He is teamless and what if he doesn't have much money right now? It's not like he's going to get his prize money any time soon (unless he plays in RO16 which he has to pay for) but if he doesn't at least he gets his RO32 money. Are hotels/places to stay included too?
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
Blizzcon is another thing Blizz does that obviously doesn't make them money (maybe with the DirectTV subscriptions but definitely not before it) that they do just because they can and because they like doing it.
Blizzard isn't an evil corporation, I get fed up with some of the shit they do just as much as the next guy. But WCS is a perfect example of something that EA or Activision would never do because they are companies that really do only care about the money.
Blizzcon is all about hype, revealing, and promotion. promotion promotion promotion. How many times have they revealed (and got us excited about) GIGANTIC things? Game expansions (MoP if I remember correctly being the last one) A lot of HearthStone stuff, Heart of the Swarm stuff and entire games like Heroes of the Storm. Seriously. Blizzcon is a big goldmine in terms of promotion and getting their products in the spotlight.
There are much less expensive ways of promoting their games and putting out news about upcoming stuff than Blizzcon.
Have you ever actually been to Blizzcon? It's MASSIVE! It must cost them a fucking fortune to do it.
Promotional Goldmine or not, they don't need to go as all out as they do every year. They do that for the fanbase, it's hard to really argue otherwise once you've actually been there.
I expected Blizzard to support NA players a bit more in an NA tournament.
I know this is MajOr, he's been around.
But what message does this send to all the other would-be-MajOr's, up and comer players from latin america.
"Sorry we can give these koreans $1000, and but you only get $500 because you're actually from the region." (even if that region includes both of the american continents.
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
Sorry for the confusion
dawwww you should have waited a few hours stating this, this thread is epic.
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
On June 05 2014 04:54 JabuSeika wrote: I expected Blizzard to support NA players a bit more in an NA tournament.
I know this is MajOr, he's been around.
But what message does this send to all the other would-be-MajOr's, up and comer players from latin america.
"Sorry we can give these koreans $1000, and but you only get $500 because you're actually from the region." (even if that region includes both of the american continents.
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
Sorry for the confusion
I almost regret he didn't forfeit... Now he even win 500$ for bitching and being a dick toward everyone.
On June 05 2014 04:54 JabuSeika wrote: I expected Blizzard to support NA players a bit more in an NA tournament.
I know this is MajOr, he's been around.
But what message does this send to all the other would-be-MajOr's, up and comer players from latin america.
"Sorry we can give these koreans $1000, and but you only get $500 because you're actually from the region." (even if that region includes both of the american continents.
This is not free money they are being given. They get their travel paid, up to a certain amount. Flying within America costs far less than flying from Korea to America. This is not bonus cash you get, it is a plane ticket that has a limit on how expensive it can be because that's common sense.
Also lol at the only reason this happened being that MajOr jumped the gun, didn't read the documentation and freaked out on Twitter after an admin made a mistake.
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
Sorry for the confusion
Facepalm moment, someone was not aware of the rules before crying on social media, and maybe someone doesn't have the ruleset distribution well in place. I'm glad I had fun while it lasted thanks TL
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
Sorry for the confusion
I missed your post among all the drama.
Thanks for clarifying this, and good luck to MajOr.
On June 05 2014 04:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Also lol at the only reason this happened being that MajOr jumped the gun, didn't read the documentation and freaked out on Twitter after an admin made a mistake.
#ESPAHTS
Someone jumped the gun, but someone also provided MajOr with wrong information.
- WCS is almost assuredly included in marketing & promotions expense on Blizzard P&L. - WCS, from an annual P&L standpoint, almost assuredly is a net loss project
From a marketing standpoint, it is unlikely that WCS would favourably compare to other marketing tools in terms of ROI from a narrow point of view such as looking at additional revenue from HOTS / LOTV sales.
What is DOES do is allow Blizzard to retain market share and image in a potentially high-growth area, that being e-sports. There is no telling what the future holds in store for this niche, and continually positioning themselves as a supporter and provider of e-sports content in it's fledgling state may (or may not) pay huge dividends in the future.
It's a qualitatively wise business move that may or may not transition into a quantifiable return later on.
Plus, they are an organization of people who live and breathe games; there is no question that they also have some altruistic motive towards giving their consumers a venue to play and celebrate the game they developed.
On June 05 2014 01:55 sharkie wrote: Sorry, but this just sucks by blizzard... you cant just say all NA players get 500 and all non NA get 1k - thats unprofessional
I am sure there are places in NA where it costs more than 500 to go to LA...
God damn it paying more for ppl flying from the other globe is "unprofessional"? There is a common sense called "estimated cost" when running business and doing cost plans. Paying 1000$ for Korea and China is not enough and 500$ for Mexico is more than enough. In the end Koreans and Chinese end up paying more out of their/their team's own.
You do realize the prices listed aren't after tax, airport fee's and are 1 way ....... Don't try and chastise someone using shit information. Just makes you look like a dumbass.
This just occupied an hour of work for me The TB and Major comments are very amusing. And i used to be a Major fan but now i see why he is team less and can't afford a trip to the biggest tournament of his career.
If MajOr was one of the best players in the world, he probably wouldn't be whining about such a small fee if he has a high chance of making it to the finals. And even then, the flight prices as shown by this generous thread has debunked the $500+ myth. Acting like you deserve more makes you look unprofessional. Best of luck to you mate. I used to be fan, but now you've opened my eyes.
btw the whole argument of koreans getting 1000$ is so invalid, it's 1.5k to fly from korea to LA lol, they still have to spend more money from their pocket than anybody from south america
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
Blizzards logic is that punishing the better players and their teams is a bad idea.
I tend to agree with them. There is no point in slamming the gate after the horses have long since bolted. Americans are not good enough to compete en-masse in WCS NA as it currently stands and those that did earn their spots should not be punished for that. A proper NA league should be established for NA players but good luck finding anyone willing to run it. The viewership isn't there and the players keep forfeiting whenever one of us tries to set something like that up, so wtf. The prevailing opinion is that it's a lost cause and it's hard to disagree with that right now.
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Flight costs last year were upwards of $15,000 for WCS America alone. To call it crippling would be an understatement.
Like my friend used to say, in the end it's the airlines who wins x). On principle I don't like paying flights, living closer to the tournament should give you financial advantage and you can tak the money and put it into the prize pool. Other than that it makes sense because tournament winnings travel slowly and this is a buffer for the players. In this case I suspect he didn't RTFM, although changes like that mid year are a bit annoying.
On June 05 2014 02:45 shid0x wrote: Wouldn't a real soft region block be 1000 dollars for players on the american continent and 500 dollars for asians ? Blizzard logic never stops amazing me.
Blizzards logic is that punishing the better players and their teams is a bad idea.
I tend to agree with them. There is no point in slamming the gate after the horses have long since bolted. Americans are not good enough to compete en-masse in WCS NA as it currently stands and those that did earn their spots should not be punished for that. A proper NA league should be established for NA players but good luck finding anyone willing to run it. The viewership isn't there and the players keep forfeiting whenever one of us tries to set something like that up, so wtf. The prevailing opinion is that it's a lost cause and it's hard to disagree with that right now.
And to be quite honest, if the system allows Korean players to qualify, the system shouldn't screw them over on travel costs right after. Think how much money a team like Axiom or Liquid would spend to send their players to WCS AM without this help.
Flight costs last year were upwards of $15,000 for WCS America alone. To call it crippling would be an understatement.
Like my friend used to say, in the end it's the airlines who wins x). On principle I don't like paying flights, living closer to the tournament should give you financial advantage and you can tak the money and put it into the prize pool. Other than that it makes sense because tournament winnings travel slowly and this is a buffer for the players. In this case I suspect he didn't RTFM, although changes like that mid year are a bit annoying.
There were no changes mid year though. The changes were made prior to Season 1 of 2014.
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
Sorry for the confusion
GG NO RE
LOL.
Glad that's all figured out.
On June 05 2014 05:01 DinosaurJones wrote: ROFL THAT TITLE CHANGE.
haha. what would SC2 be without a little drama every once in a while <3
This is not free money they are being given. They get their travel paid, up to a certain amount. Flying within America costs far less than flying from Korea to America. This is not bonus cash you get, it is a plane ticket that has a limit on how expensive it can be because that's common sense.
I know it's not free money.
What I was pointing out was the disparity that existed.
Either make it $1000 (which is actually) or $500, for everyone equally.
If a player chooses to play from a region that is half a world away, they or their team should pay up the remainder.
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
Sorry for the confusion
Facepalm moment, someone was not aware of the rules before crying on social media, and maybe someone doesn't have the ruleset distribution well in place. I'm glad I had fun while it lasted thanks TL
He says he reached out to people and didn't get a productive response.
Then he went to Twitter and this thread resulted.
Then he got a productive response.
Even TB, who presumably also has at least some of the information, was saying it was set out in the rules how much Major would get. But maybe it wasn't set out clearly enough, since apparently it is $1000 and not $500 for Major... so... Or TB might not have looked that closely since it didn't impact his players and may have been referring more generally to what was set out as the situation pre-WCS.
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft.
The total amount of money netted by selling copies of HotS is probably dwarfed by what Riot and Valve bring in from micro transactions in a short span of time. SC2 has a very limited amount of visibility in the Esports scene nowadays and it's only shrinking. Whatever happened to Blizzard spearheading the surge in Esports?
On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote: Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament.
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft.
The total amount of money netted by selling copies of HotS is probably dwarfed by what Riot and Valve bring in from micro transactions in a short span of time. SC2 has a very limited amount of visibility in the Esports scene nowadays and it's only shrinking. Whatever happened to Blizzard spearheading the surge in Esports?
Haha, this thread title is gold. It's nice to see some things never change, like TB getting into arguments with people, and Major making a fool of himself.
On June 05 2014 05:05 goiflin wrote: Wouldn't it be great if korean players had a tournament in korea to play in, where the travel stipend would be minimal due to a centralized location of most pro-gaming houses and ready availability of public transport to any major population center?
You know, so that they didn't have to spend insane amounts of money traveling to north america to take away slots from potential up and comers in our region?
I'm sure you think this is terribly clever. Here are several reasons why it isn't.
1) The talent pool in Korea is too big and the number of tournaments for those players to participate in is too small. They have one individual tournament. 1. They have more competitive players than every other region put together. There are a handful of American players that could actually take a BO3 out of any of the 48 people in this seasons Code A, let alone Code S. Code B also has a ton of players who would crush the vast majority of what America has to offer on any given day. There is simply not enough space in the GSL for all the talent Korea has, so either it gets distributed amongst the other regions or a shit ton of players languish without recognition or prize money every month. The effect of this is that teams are forced to downsize unless they're doing Proleague (and probably while they're doing Proleague as well if they aren't winning it). Long story short, players get fired, players that are better than all but a handful of Americans.
2) Sponsor ROI. It doesn't make much sense for teams and players with foreign sponsors to play in the GSL. It gets the least foreign views of the 3 events and many of those products are not available in Korea (or are imported at very high cost). It's the same reason KeSPA isn't too fussed about sending its players to foreign events, their main sponsors only sell in South Korea.
If you want the Koreans to "go back to Korea". Give them 2 more divisions of GSL. Turn Code A into a proper tournament, Make a Code B and a Code C. Make sure they all have reasonable prizepools because god knows Code C would be harder than any American only tournament and if you can win that you should be getting prizemoney and then... maybe then you can say "go back home".
The horse bolted a long time ago. No point closing the gate now.
Or TB might not have looked that closely since it didn't impact his players and may have been referring more generally to what was set out as the situation pre-WCS.
On June 05 2014 05:16 Kasaraki wrote: Haha, this thread title is gold. It's nice to see some things never change, like TB getting into arguments with people, and Major making a fool of himself.
Yep, lets ignore the fact that ESL admins had misinformed MajOr on the amount and that TB didn't make a fool of himself by arguing with a "fool"
I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money.
esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever.
I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table.
Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit
Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things.
No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists.
Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
Blizzcon is another thing Blizz does that obviously doesn't make them money (maybe with the DirectTV subscriptions but definitely not before it) that they do just because they can and because they like doing it.
Blizzard isn't an evil corporation, I get fed up with some of the shit they do just as much as the next guy. But WCS is a perfect example of something that EA or Activision would never do because they are companies that really do only care about the money.
Blizzcon is all about hype, revealing, and promotion. promotion promotion promotion. How many times have they revealed (and got us excited about) GIGANTIC things? Game expansions (MoP if I remember correctly being the last one) A lot of HearthStone stuff, Heart of the Swarm stuff and entire games like Heroes of the Storm. Seriously. Blizzcon is a big goldmine in terms of promotion and getting their products in the spotlight.
There are much less expensive ways of promoting their games and putting out news about upcoming stuff than Blizzcon.
Have you ever actually been to Blizzcon? It's MASSIVE! It must cost them a fucking fortune to do it.
Promotional Goldmine or not, they don't need to go as all out as they do every year. They do that for the fanbase, it's hard to really argue otherwise once you've actually been there.
The pros outweigh the con(sts) for them in this case, no matter how big the event may be. Keeping your fans satisfied is also worth money in a lot of cases, remember. They don't either, they skipped a year a year ago for no real ''real'' reason except not really having anything to show/busy working on stuff, so yeah. Of course it costs WAY more than it could, but this is what the brand stands for. Blizzard fans are passionate and this is just helping them keep that passion alive. (Not saying that Blizzard isn't awesome and NOT doing for the fans, but there's big benefits for them at Blizzcon aswell.)
On June 05 2014 05:15 PesteNoire wrote: So after all this, it looks like Major was right to complain as now they found out he gets up to 1k for travel.
Not really. If he'd read the rule book he would have known he has 1k, and wouldn't have needed to throw a tantrum. Also $500 for Canada... I don't think that rule has ever been applied, so we'll have to wait for season 3 to see if we get drama over it.
On June 05 2014 05:13 Waxangel wrote: the lesson we learned today is that canadians get screwed because they are too nice
free healthcare ^^ usa guys think they all rich cause they can afford to keep all fingers after an accident and dont have to choose which they can afford xD
On June 05 2014 05:16 Kasaraki wrote: Haha, this thread title is gold. It's nice to see some things never change, like TB getting into arguments with people, and Major making a fool of himself.
Yep, lets ignore the fact that ESL admins had misinformed MajOr on the amount and that TB didn't make a fool of himself by arguing with a "fool"
What's that saying again?
I think the saying goes: "Read the documentation you've been given"
On June 05 2014 05:15 PesteNoire wrote: So after all this, it looks like Major was right to complain as now they found out he gets up to 1k for travel.
Not really. If he'd read the rule book he would have known he has 1k, and wouldn't have needed to throw a tantrum. Also $500 for Canada... I don't think that rule has ever been applied, so we'll have to wait for season 3 to see if we get drama over it.
Well he did talk with an admin. Even then, I don't think anyone is denying that Major could have handled this significantly better, but hey, problem is solved now, so we should all go on our with drama-obsessed lives!
On June 05 2014 01:55 sharkie wrote: Sorry, but this just sucks by blizzard... you cant just say all NA players get 500 and all non NA get 1k - thats unprofessional
I am sure there are places in NA where it costs more than 500 to go to LA...
God damn it paying more for ppl flying from the other globe is "unprofessional"? There is a common sense called "estimated cost" when running business and doing cost plans. Paying 1000$ for Korea and China is not enough and 500$ for Mexico is more than enough. In the end Koreans and Chinese end up paying more out of their/their team's own.
You do realize the prices listed aren't after tax, airport fee's and are 1 way ....... Don't try and chastise someone using shit information. Just makes you look like a dumbass.
:D I'm not disagreeing that it's not possible to get flights within $500 .... dude just used shit examples.
his examples were round trip. I think you wouldve known that if you clicked both links. they were fine examples and gave a very good estimate on the total flight cost (including taxes!) of a roundtrip from Mexico City to Los Angeles.
while I may have joked around with the other thread I think it's a fair point though, if Major gets 1000$, canadians should get 1000$, I mean a flight from Toronto to LA roundtrip is 850$, it woulda been less expensive than that for Major
On June 05 2014 05:47 ROOTFayth wrote: while I may have joked around with the other thread I think it's a fair point though, if Major gets 1000$, canadians should get 1000$, I mean a flight from Toronto to LA roundtrip is 850$, it woulda been less expensive than that for Major
Fair point indeed, free Canada!!! Get to work Wax!
Well this was an interesting thread for certain, at least MajOr's problem was resolved without any real drama erupting or I might be speaking too optimistically.
What I took away from this thread is... why bother reading the WCS rules document when you can just make an idiotic rant on twitter and get other people to do the leg work. Smart thinking.
On June 05 2014 07:22 iHirO wrote: What I took away from this thread is... why bother reading the WCS rules document when you can just make an idiotic rant on twitter and get other people to do the leg work. Smart thinking.
i guess you missed the part where he spoke to people at the organization in charge, and they were mistaken about their own policies. ESL already admitted their own mistake.
On June 05 2014 07:22 iHirO wrote: What I took away from this thread is... why bother reading the WCS rules document when you can just make an idiotic rant on twitter and get other people to do the leg work. Smart thinking.
i guess you missed the part where he spoke to people at the organization in charge, and they were mistaken about their own policies. ESL already admitted their own mistake.
That's what gets me. I would amend the statement to "Why bother writing a rulebook if you can't even remember what to enforce".
On June 05 2014 05:47 ROOTFayth wrote: while I may have joked around with the other thread I think it's a fair point though, if Major gets 1000$, canadians should get 1000$, I mean a flight from Toronto to LA roundtrip is 850$, it woulda been less expensive than that for Major
Fair point indeed, free Canada!!! Get to work Wax!
I don't think any Canadians are going to LA for this though, so it doesn't really matter.
This thread was a most excellent read. Watching TB argue when it's not directed at me is a work of art. A combination of dry wit and raw emotion. The actual "issue" this thread revolves around could have been solved easily (and has been from what i can tell). Also damn if I was given a thousand bucks for travel with car service and a hotel provided I would take the bus for $100 and enjoy some five-star meals while I'm in LA playing Starcraft with 3k guaranteed whether or not I win a single game. Not such a bad gig if you think about it Major.
On June 05 2014 04:51 Kennigit wrote: Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
Sorry for the confusion
That's still a terrible policy. If I were to make it to ro16, the flight to california is 650 for me. HuK just moved to new york, if he were to make it to ro16 in Season 3, it's the same price for the flight. 500$ for players within America doesnt work all the time compared to Europe.
On June 05 2014 01:37 farvacola wrote: Considering the way MajOr conducts himself, I don't see this as any big loss. He ought to have learned by now that being pleasant and, at the very least, not a self-entitled child is a better way to get what one wants.
This is pretty much right on the money. Im' willing to wager my paycheck he read it wrong, didn't re-read it and then started complaining
On June 05 2014 01:37 farvacola wrote: Considering the way MajOr conducts himself, I don't see this as any big loss. He ought to have learned by now that being pleasant and, at the very least, not a self-entitled child is a better way to get what one wants.
This is pretty much right on the money. Im' willing to wager my paycheck he read it wrong, didn't re-read it and then started complaining
On June 05 2014 01:37 farvacola wrote: Considering the way MajOr conducts himself, I don't see this as any big loss. He ought to have learned by now that being pleasant and, at the very least, not a self-entitled child is a better way to get what one wants.
This is pretty much right on the money. Im' willing to wager my paycheck he read it wrong, didn't re-read it and then started complaining
hand over your paycheck. ESL was in the wrong.
Will you split his paycheck with me I could use the cash
On June 05 2014 01:37 farvacola wrote: Considering the way MajOr conducts himself, I don't see this as any big loss. He ought to have learned by now that being pleasant and, at the very least, not a self-entitled child is a better way to get what one wants.
This is pretty much right on the money. Im' willing to wager my paycheck he read it wrong, didn't re-read it and then started complaining
hand over your paycheck. ESL was in the wrong.
Will you split his paycheck with me I could use the cash
since im such a nice guy, you can have 75% of whatever he sends me!
On June 05 2014 11:23 LimeNade wrote: So misinformation/misunderstandings has basically led to a war of words that don't have anything to dowith WCS NA Ro16 anymore?
after reading this thread i want to throw up. i went from not even thinking about major to wanting him to lose. is that bad. well, i remember a time where major's dream came true and he was able to be in a korean team and everyone was happy and generous. i thought it was something like... everyone coming together to help and make someone happy sort of thing and thought major was someone that is grateful and happy since his life long dream of playing in a proleague was met. wow
Somewhere at Blizzard headquarters there are half a dozen employees about to get an email from an angry starcraft player when they finally get to work for the next day. Happens in IT all the time.
My favorite is when they email my boss because they couldn't get a hold of me at 8:00pm. I guess, at least, they don't tweet about it.
On June 05 2014 12:32 Lokian wrote: after reading this thread i want to throw up. i went from not even thinking about major to wanting him to lose. is that bad. well, i remember a time where major's dream came true and he was able to be in a korean team and everyone was happy and generous. i thought it was something like... everyone coming together to help and make someone happy sort of thing and thought major was someone that is grateful and happy since his life long dream of playing in a proleague was met. wow
but now...
honestly major was being quite dramatic and jumped the gun a bit, his attitude is questionable, but posts like this make me feel the community will always love to eat up this kind of drama. it's almost ridiculous to act as if we're any better than his little freakout when these threads get 400 replies of people dickwaving about how they're not fans anymore and he's not "representing the scene" or whatever. major is a human being, yes he would probably do well to relax himself and be more diplomatic, but half the people here are either acting like he skinned a baby or creaming themselves over the opportunity to trash a pro player
On June 05 2014 12:32 Lokian wrote: after reading this thread i want to throw up. i went from not even thinking about major to wanting him to lose. is that bad. well, i remember a time where major's dream came true and he was able to be in a korean team and everyone was happy and generous. i thought it was something like... everyone coming together to help and make someone happy sort of thing and thought major was someone that is grateful and happy since his life long dream of playing in a proleague was met. wow
but now...
Its interesting how divergent the reactions can be. A lot of people are highly entertained by all of the events that just occurred. Its been a while since we got some good old fashioned, genuine starcraft 2 drama. Just like in the glory days with Idra and Naniwa, except now its TB and Major bringing the fun . lol thanks you guys
Whahahahahaha this was pure gold Mr. Wax and thank you, I like MajOr in terms of play, but he's annoying as a Call Of Duty fanboy. Well, don't be too rude on him or he can forfeit again.
EPT
MajOr suggested that he would forfeit his participation in the WCS America Ro16 due to discrepancies in travel support given to players from different countries. Due to a miscommunication with an ESL admin, MajOr believed that he would be receiving $500 in travel support instead of the $1000 given to players from Korea, China, etc.
ZOO.Courage replacing him in the Ro16 as the next highest placing player from their Ro32 group.
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i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry.
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