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On June 05 2014 04:38 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:35 Squat wrote:On June 05 2014 04:33 ppp wrote:
The battle :
On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t.
On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he qualified for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
No offence to both of you.
I don't care that much I strongly doubt TB's forays into Esports were ever about getting rich. Setting your money on fire might be a worse idea than Esports if you're trying to make a profit, but just barely. It has to be said..... unless you're Riot.
Does Riot make money? I kinda doubt it...
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On June 05 2014 04:27 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:26 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 03:54 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 03:10 xuanzue wrote:On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote:
Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament. I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money. esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever. I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table. Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things. Blizzard will never see a profit from WCS. Starcraft 2 is never going to explode, it's already past its prime, the best it can hope to do is slowly grow back to where it was in it's golden era and even then, Blizzard would still not be making a profit on the absurd costs of running WCS. Make no mistake, they are passionate about their game, passionate enough to throw money at it with no possibility of returns. Exposure exists to generate profit, that's what it's for. WCS does not do that.
At a minimum, they have incentive to bolster their support ahead of LotV.
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On June 05 2014 04:40 SirPinky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:29 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 04:26 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 03:54 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 03:10 xuanzue wrote:On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote:
Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament. I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money. esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever. I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table. Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things. No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists. Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe.
And now the reality.
Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
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I don't get it. Your team sponsors you and pays your way, if they can, not Blizzard. Otherwise, you pay your own way if you can. You choose to play in Blizzard's tournament. I'd be pleased that Blizzard chose to subsidise even a portion of my travel costs to play in the region's best tournament.
Get your head out of your arse, Juan.
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WCS itself no profit
but doesnt WCS = SC2 viewers, players, more potential customers of LotV?
not to mention keeping the Blizzard name brand out there
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On June 05 2014 04:41 Rho_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:38 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 05 2014 04:35 Squat wrote:On June 05 2014 04:33 ppp wrote:
The battle :
On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t.
On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he qualified for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
No offence to both of you.
I don't care that much I strongly doubt TB's forays into Esports were ever about getting rich. Setting your money on fire might be a worse idea than Esports if you're trying to make a profit, but just barely. It has to be said..... unless you're Riot. Does Riot make money? I kinda doubt it...
Not directly off of the events probably, but the amount of exposure that doing shit like selling out the Staples Center brings in can't be ignored.
Plus if I am not mistaken (haven't played League in at least a year) they put out skins and such to commemorate various tournaments. So they make money there too.
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On June 05 2014 04:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:40 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:29 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 04:26 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 03:54 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 03:10 xuanzue wrote:On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote:
Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament. I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money. esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever. I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table. Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things. No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists. Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe. And now the reality. Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft.
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You do realize the prices listed aren't after tax, airport fee's and are 1 way ....... Don't try and chastise someone using shit information. Just makes you look like a dumbass.
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On June 05 2014 04:24 MajOr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2014 04:17 MajOr wrote:On June 05 2014 04:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2014 04:09 MajOr wrote:On June 05 2014 04:05 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2014 04:03 MajOr wrote:On June 05 2014 04:02 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2014 04:02 MajOr wrote:On June 05 2014 04:01 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
It boggles the mind that you don't have a team, I can't imagine why i am too busy beating your easy players I think you mean forfeiting my tournaments. Do the same here, give the spot to someone who deserves it. ah not bad brgining back and old tournament i am sorry ur salty about me forfeiting your tournament when i was playing from a exibition computer. as i told you already  i was busy winning 10k that weekened sorry. I think you mean knowingly double-booking yourself, playing like an idiot then bailing on an event mid-series while MaSa was wiping the floor with you, after you took a spot from someone else. I wasn't aware lag also affected the brain. For the record, the last time you beat one of my players was in September 2013 in Acer Teamstory cup (which was amusing because you didn't have a team then either), if you wanna talk about "old tournaments"  hahaha ok btw i deserve the spot just cause i won it in a fair way(ladder rules of your tournament) and i can do w.e i want with my spot after that not that i tried to forfeit i tried to make it work playing from the lan i didnt overbook it on purpose they told me they would have a good computer for me to play on. they didnt what you want me to do? and u cant call me playing like an idiot. have you seen your self play? lol Sure, you can do whatever you want with your spot. What you chose to do was make a mockery of the event and make yourself look bad. In doing so you also tanked any possibility of that tournament ever coming back, sponsors won't touch it now thanks to the forfeits. They don't see the American scene as being something worthy of support and at this point I agree with them. I personally have no intention of doing NA only events anymore. You made a mockery of the event and the NA scene, seriously, you literally hurt your own scene which is a bit funny considering you're now trying to ask Blizzard to support it more. Charity begins at home. I'm sure my play is very relevant to the discussion. After all, I am a progamer.... Your record against my team is 16-6 btw and no that's not in your favour. Next time you want to talk about being busy beating up my players you might want to check Aligulac first uh. its not like i didnt try to play your tournament i tried, the other tournament told me they had a computer good enough for me to play in your event. i wanted to play i tried to play simply didnt work out it was a horrible pc that couldnt even run sc2 if you cant undestearnd that. nothing i can do and u cant blame me for your tournament not running again when i told you i was gonna be playing another tournament in those dates and YOU agreed with the conditions i gave you, that the other tournament would give me a good pc to play on. they didnt nothing neither you or i could do. so i have no clue why you bring this thing back up I made the mistake of trusting that you would play a series to completion even if the conditions were not so great, because that's what a professional player would do. It was a good learning experience for me. As I recall at the time you said your PC was runnnig sc2 at "about 50fps", which is not ideal but it's certainly not a "horrible pc that couldnt even run sc2". Let's call it what it is. Your were in a sub-par environment, which sucks, but it happens, you were losing, you tilted and forfeited. no the computer couldnt really run sc2 at all it i still remember the game on polar where he killed 10 marines with 1 banshee cause my marines would literally stuter yes i was mad about it, but i tried to play it on thats why i played 3games but to be honest i shouldnt had play a single one. it really was unplayable. i even tried to rush back to home to play from my house but i couldnt leave the venue since i had 1 more match. yes it sucks i wanted to play but u cant just come and say i killed your tournamnet cause i couldnt play.
I don't think you should've said ''I was too busy winning 10K in another tournament'' if you're completely apologetic about it now (and back when the event was going on)
More on-topic: Yes, Blizzard should probably cover all the flight costs. No, these $200 aren't something Major should really make a giant scene about considering he's walking away with money guaranteed. (quite a bunch more money)
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On June 05 2014 04:45 mikumegurine wrote:
WCS itself no profit
but doesnt WCS = SC2 viewers, players, more potential customers of LotV?
not to mention keeping the Blizzard name brand out there
If they would see it "only" as a marketing campaign I'm sure there are cheaper ways to get the same amount of attention
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I don't really care about whos "winning" or "right".: I just enjoy the drama. Don't let it end here, please.
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On June 05 2014 04:46 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2014 04:40 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:29 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 04:26 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 03:54 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 03:10 xuanzue wrote:On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote:
Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament. I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money. esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever. I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table. Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things. No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists. Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe. And now the reality. Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs. You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft.
There's a difference between selling a lot of copies of the game on its launch and maintaining it as a profitable business. Yes, a lot of people DID buy HotS, but that doesn't cover the costs of running WCS as a franchise year after year, because people aren't constantly buying the game.
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On June 05 2014 04:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:40 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:29 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 04:26 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 03:54 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 03:10 xuanzue wrote:On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote:
Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament. I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money. esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever. I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table. Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things. No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists. Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe. And now the reality. Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs.
Blizzcon is another thing Blizz does that obviously doesn't make them money (maybe with the DirectTV subscriptions but definitely not before it) that they do just because they can and because they like doing it.
Blizzard isn't an evil corporation, I get fed up with some of the shit they do just as much as the next guy. But WCS is a perfect example of something that EA or Activision would never do because they are companies that really do only care about the money.
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In this thread I learned that Shoutcraft America probably won't happen again, and as an extreme lover of that tournament I am really sad now. =/
I was kind of wondering about Sandisk and the all-korean lineup, and what the status of Shoutcraft and the NA scene in general was. What a bummer.
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On June 05 2014 04:46 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2014 04:40 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:29 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 04:26 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 03:54 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 03:10 xuanzue wrote:On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote:
Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament. I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money. esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever. I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table. Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things. No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists. Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe. And now the reality. Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs. You mean WCS is in the red right? Cause HotS sold more than a million copies in 48 hours. Can hardly believe they're not making money on Starcraft.
They "made" money on SC2. They're certainly not making it now. WCS is costing them a lot of money, development of LoTV is costing them a lot of money and HotS sales have declined since the games' been out for over a year.
WCS is almost certainly in the red and always will be. More so than LCS for Riot, who at least have a way of constantly getting money out of their players since it's a F2P game with microtransactions. Even if I wanted to give Blizzard more money, there's no actual way to do it right now with SC2.
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On June 05 2014 04:46 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:41 Rho_ wrote:On June 05 2014 04:38 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 05 2014 04:35 Squat wrote:On June 05 2014 04:33 ppp wrote:
The battle :
On my left we have ToTalBiscuit, this man wanted to invest all his money in the esport scene in order to become richer. Then reality came. The comunity is still very divided about him because of all his dramas and sh*t.
On my right we have MajOr, an excellent player of starcraft2 who is not rich enough to participate in an event he qualified for and have no team. The comunity is still divided about him because of his attitude and sh*t.
No offence to both of you.
I don't care that much I strongly doubt TB's forays into Esports were ever about getting rich. Setting your money on fire might be a worse idea than Esports if you're trying to make a profit, but just barely. It has to be said..... unless you're Riot. Does Riot make money? I kinda doubt it... Not directly off of the events probably, but the amount of exposure that doing shit like selling out the Staples Center brings in can't be ignored. Plus if I am not mistaken (haven't played League in at least a year) they put out skins and such to commemorate various tournaments. So they make money there too.
Tournament skins are free. It's entirely a marketing play. Also, they pay all the teams a salary, have a bunch of employees devoted only to the esports angle etc. I would guess that, taken alone, Riot esports is massively in the red.
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On June 05 2014 01:30 Waxangel wrote:
In 2014, Blizzard changed their policy to give more support to players outside of North America, giving a $1000 travel stipend to non-North American players while giving $500 to players inside the continent.* This coincided with the "soft" region-lock that was implemented in the region, which limited the number of non-North American players who could advance from the qualifiers.
Seems fair to me, it works like progressive taxes.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Looks like there was some confusion on both the Admin side and on Major's. The WCS player travel policy states that Latin American countries have up to 1000$ travel stipend. So that will cover Juan. Our US guys are working with him now to get travel booked.
Sorry for the confusion 
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On June 05 2014 04:49 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 04:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2014 04:40 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:29 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 04:26 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 04:12 Zealously wrote:On June 05 2014 03:54 SirPinky wrote:On June 05 2014 03:10 xuanzue wrote:On June 05 2014 02:15 Technique wrote:
Be happy you get $500...
A pro would not need the tournament organizer to pay for him anyway... he's gonna win the money back and then some in the tournament. I have several friends who are chess players, they (my friends) have to pay for their travel costs, hotels, fees to enter on any tournament. so if they don't win the prize, they plainly loss money. esports is the only place where organizers must pay players to play in their tournaments. because somehow players can't loss any money ever. I don't see chess bringing hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is a poor comparison. Blizzard doesn't do this to lose money; that is not how you operate a business. Every company has a budget for marketing: This gives them exposure of their product and brings strategic partners to the table. Kim Phan has explicitly said that Blizzard does not run WCS with the hope of any profit Profit versus exposure and strategic partnerships are very different things. No, she explicitly said any potential benefits are secondary. There may still be exposure to be had, but it's not the reason WCS exists. Then somehow I find that statement hard to believe. I doubt this expense shows up under the "Donations" section of the Blizzard/Activision P&L as well as Letter to Shareholders and public filing. And, instead, is a marketing expense. I don't see a company like Blizzard being altruistic and "saving" esports by donating millions of dollars. I don't think their shareholders would appreciate something like this without a return. So, again, I find that statement hard to believe without an ulterior motive. Seems like "we put the gamers first" is a nice spin people want to believe. And now the reality. Mike Morhaime really loves Starcraft, even if SC2 is the red-headed stepchild of Blizzard (ie. the game that isn't making them any money). He as CEO, has the clout to make WCS happen. Where the expense is written off doesn't matter. Calling something a "marketing expense" does not magically make it cost no dollars, nor does it guarantee a profit. WCS is of course just a fraction of Blizzards total outgoing costs. Blizzcon is another thing Blizz does that obviously doesn't make them money (maybe with the DirectTV subscriptions but definitely not before it) that they do just because they can and because they like doing it.Blizzard isn't an evil corporation, I get fed up with some of the shit they do just as much as the next guy. But WCS is a perfect example of something that EA or Activision would never do because they are companies that really do only care about the money.
Blizzcon is all about hype, revealing, and promotion. promotion promotion promotion. How many times have they revealed (and got us excited about) GIGANTIC things? Game expansions (MoP if I remember correctly being the last one) A lot of HearthStone stuff, Heart of the Swarm stuff and entire games like Heroes of the Storm. Seriously. Blizzcon is a big goldmine in terms of promotion and getting their products in the spotlight.
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lol greedy major
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EPT
