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On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too)
It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem.
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On June 02 2014 05:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too) It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem.
then pls link the data, all i saw is a reddit article that literally said his stream isn't more suspicious than any other streamer you can find.
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oh nice I see myself on here yay!
And good lord neuroswarm outpassioning painuser!
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On June 02 2014 05:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too) It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem. then pls link the data, all i saw is a reddit article that literally said his stream isn't more suspicious than any other streamer you can find.
The data is my eyes and knowing how streaming works.
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On June 02 2014 04:39 TotalBiscuit wrote:
You are acting like this is somehow up for discussion. It's not, he has been viewbotted, his numbers are wildly inconsistent with large gains and drops over the course of short periods of time. The only way this happens is if you have been viewbotted. As to who is responsible, that can't be confirmed. Streams get viewbotted all the time, but Winters stream is frequently affected by this. His social media metrics don't match up with his streaming numbers either, which is another clue that indicates viewbotting is going on.
It's absolutely up for discussion until Twitch comes forward and says they find something consistently suspicious. Because the only data provided so far from DarkAutumn, showed that his viewer numbers vs. chat interactions are not very suspicious and line up within range of other popular streams.
And his "social media metrics" have grown quite a bit since I first started following up. When I started watching him he had 100-200 viewers, and 50 Twitter followers. He doesn't advertise his social media often in his stream (it's on the screen between games, but he hardly ever mentions it). What he does advertise is his twitch (telling people throughout the night every night to follow him on Twitch), and his Twitch account has over 23,000 followers (and 500 subscribers). That number doesn't seem out of balance for the views he gets. Especially because that number has grown in the last 3-5 months since he started reaching over 1000 viewers.
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On June 02 2014 05:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too) It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem. then pls link the data, all i saw is a reddit article that literally said his stream isn't more suspicious than any other streamer you can find.
Even Winter said in his AMA than he gets viewbotted at times. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/257n93/hi_im_wintersc_currently_the_1_sc2_streamer_i_am/chei0kl
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On June 02 2014 05:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 02 2014 05:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too) It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem. then pls link the data, all i saw is a reddit article that literally said his stream isn't more suspicious than any other streamer you can find. Even Winter said in his AMA than he gets viewbotted at times. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/257n93/hi_im_wintersc_currently_the_1_sc2_streamer_i_am/chei0kl
Yeah at times, not every single night he streams (which is most nights). He constantly reaches over 2,000 viewers and people think he's being viewbotted then. Winter mentioned he believed he was being viewbotted the night he passed 3000 viewers, and once or twice before then when his viewer count passed nearly 1000 viewers higher than he had before.
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On June 02 2014 05:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 02 2014 05:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too) It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem. then pls link the data, all i saw is a reddit article that literally said his stream isn't more suspicious than any other streamer you can find. The data is my eyes and knowing how streaming works.
So basically no data, ty
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On June 02 2014 05:56 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 02 2014 05:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too) It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem. then pls link the data, all i saw is a reddit article that literally said his stream isn't more suspicious than any other streamer you can find. The data is my eyes and knowing how streaming works. So basically no data, ty
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/257n93/hi_im_wintersc_currently_the_1_sc2_streamer_i_am/chei0kl
Other than him admitting it? No I do not have access to the impossible to access data, shockingly enough.
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On June 02 2014 05:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:56 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 02 2014 05:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 02 2014 05:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too) It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem. then pls link the data, all i saw is a reddit article that literally said his stream isn't more suspicious than any other streamer you can find. The data is my eyes and knowing how streaming works. So basically no data, ty http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/257n93/hi_im_wintersc_currently_the_1_sc2_streamer_i_am/chei0klOther than him admitting it? No I do not have access to the impossible to access data, shockingly enough.
Since you missed my post right above the one you replied to, he mentioned that he's been viewbotted a few times that he's aware of - when his views went over 1000 more than usual (the latest last month when he passed over 3,000 for serveral hours). That was obvious to him (and he even said so during his stream). But that doesn't mean he's constantly being viewbotted pushing him to average such a high amount of viewers. And as I also pointed out, having 23,000 followers on Twitch (many relatively new - and therefore more likely to be active - in the last several months) doesn't seem out of line with the amount of views he gets.
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Is there followerbotting as well?
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On June 02 2014 06:06 urboss wrote:
Is there followerbotting as well?
Yes. It's also possible to get bots in your chat, and I've heard you can even get them to say random things (says a lot about twitch chat when you can replace them with bots and nobody notices, eh?  ). And while we're at it, you can also buy followers for twitter and facebook.
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On June 02 2014 06:04 Andelas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:56 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 02 2014 05:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 02 2014 05:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too) It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem. then pls link the data, all i saw is a reddit article that literally said his stream isn't more suspicious than any other streamer you can find. The data is my eyes and knowing how streaming works. So basically no data, ty http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/257n93/hi_im_wintersc_currently_the_1_sc2_streamer_i_am/chei0klOther than him admitting it? No I do not have access to the impossible to access data, shockingly enough. Since you missed my post right above the one you replied to, he mentioned that he's been viewbotted a few times that he's aware of - when his views went over 1000 more than usual (the latest last month when he passed over 3,000 for serveral hours). That was obvious to him (and he even said so during his stream). But that doesn't mean he's constantly being viewbotted pushing him to average such a high amount of viewers. And as I also pointed out, having 23,000 followers on Twitch (many relatively new - and therefore more likely to be active - in the last several months) doesn't seem out of line with the amount of views he gets.
The_Red_Viper was asking for data that support TotalBiscuit's above statement that "some of his views are not legit". I think this qualifies as such.
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Winter has said that he has been viewbotted by others at times. Does anyone have the exact dates on when that happened?
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On June 02 2014 05:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:56 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 02 2014 05:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 02 2014 05:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too) It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem. then pls link the data, all i saw is a reddit article that literally said his stream isn't more suspicious than any other streamer you can find. The data is my eyes and knowing how streaming works. So basically no data, ty http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/257n93/hi_im_wintersc_currently_the_1_sc2_streamer_i_am/chei0klOther than him admitting it? No I do not have access to the impossible to access data, shockingly enough.
So what exactly does this prove? You and others make it look like he is not legit at all. That is where my problem with this bs starts, it is basically a witch-hunt cause the big boys don't have his numbers and get mad about it.
Streams get botted, this is nothing new and not exclusive to Winter, so what exactly is your point?
I could probably say exactly the same about 4 random other streams on that list.
Does he get botted? Probably from time to time like many other streams out there.
The interesting part isn't IF someone gets botted, but how substantial the botting is, as long as nobody shows any data with evidence that his numbers are WAY exaggerated, i don't see any point in this whole discussion really...
But hey it is obviously easier to be a douchebag about this whole situation because you don't like his growth.
And to add something usefull: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/26cnst/sc2_streams_and_viewbots_the_numbers/
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On June 02 2014 06:08 Conti wrote:
Winter has said that he has been viewbotted by others at times. Does anyone have the exact dates on when that happened?
The only date he specifically mentioned as far as I know, was "last night" in a post he wrote 22 days ago.
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If you guys want to see who's viewbotting (or getting viewbotted) this one catches most of them.
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On June 02 2014 05:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 02 2014 05:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 02 2014 05:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:
My problem is that some "famous and important" figureheads of the community act like it is 100% confirmed that he isn't legit.
I can understand that people find it somewhat suspicious, but this "witch-hunt" looks very bad imo.
You can think about his content what you want (only smurfs, blabla), but he produces A LOT of content and people seem to enjoy what he is doing. If the already established people get jealous and spread rumors it is imo pretty sad, get your shit together and produce content people enjoy yourself! (that part isn't about you TB, but other streamers who are vocal about him too) It is 99% confirmed that some of his views are not legit. It is not confirmed that this is his own doing. He obviously has a fanbase, it's just not as big as these stats indicate. His recent questionable claims that he was the "#1 viewed Starcraft streamer" in his ill-fated AMA have served to only compound the problem. then pls link the data, all i saw is a reddit article that literally said his stream isn't more suspicious than any other streamer you can find. The data is my eyes and knowing how streaming works.
Massan has a very small social media following but has insane twitch views which could be the same for Winter no?
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On June 02 2014 06:25 EquilasH wrote:If you guys want to see who's viewbotting (or getting viewbotted) this one catches most of them.
Holy crap
If I am to believe this link is accurate, then stream numbers are useless now
Almost every viewer is fake for almost all streams
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On June 02 2014 06:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 06:08 Conti wrote:
Winter has said that he has been viewbotted by others at times. Does anyone have the exact dates on when that happened? The only date he specifically mentioned as far as I know, was "last night" in a post he wrote 22 days ago.
That would be the 10th or 11th. Here's his session on the 10th: (Times are my time zone, not his)
+ Show Spoiler +Date|Viewers
2014-05-10 02:29:28|56
2014-05-10 02:44:28|524
2014-05-10 02:59:28|1103
2014-05-10 03:14:28|1588
2014-05-10 03:29:26|2008
2014-05-10 03:44:29|1981
2014-05-10 03:59:28|1945
2014-05-10 04:14:28|2032
2014-05-10 04:29:26|2202
2014-05-10 04:44:27|2360
2014-05-10 04:59:28|2318 <-
2014-05-10 05:14:28|3235 <-
2014-05-10 05:29:28|3335
2014-05-10 05:44:28|3280
2014-05-10 05:59:27|3052
2014-05-10 06:14:28|3046
2014-05-10 06:29:29|3111
2014-05-10 06:44:26|2918
2014-05-10 06:59:28|2956
2014-05-10 07:14:28|2701 <-
2014-05-10 07:29:28|1678 <-
2014-05-10 07:44:28|2284
2014-05-10 07:59:28|2418
2014-05-10 08:14:28|2645
2014-05-10 08:29:28|2713
2014-05-10 08:44:27|2790
There's a jump of almost exactly 1000 viewers at 5:14, and a drop of almost exactly 1000 at 7:14, 2 hours later, so his story checks out.
Now did he viewbot, or was someone viewbotting him? The whole streaming session lasted from 2:30 until 8:45, over 6 hours. It seems odd to randomly viewbot 2 hours out of those 8. And looking at the numbers for his stream on the day after, I see no similar jumps anywhere.
If I find the time, I might write a script checking for similar jumps in his viewer numbers and see if any more show up. Winter points out two instances of him being botted in that reddit comment. Assuming that's true, he was viewbotted for about 5 hours in May, for about 1000 additional viewers. Even doubling that, those numbers really do not add all that much to his average. Of course, this is a matter of principle more than anything, and if it turns out that he is being viewbotted regularly (more than just a couple of times a month), that should be mentioned in the OP.
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EPT
