Flash and SC2 playstyle

Flash and SC2 playstyle - Page 5

Pirfiktshon

United States1072 Posts

May 30 2014 13:37 GMT

#81

I like how all of you say welll he would be better playing protoss...the truth is that everyone would play better if we all chose protoss... LOL

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Morbidius

Brazil3449 Posts

May 30 2014 13:52 GMT

#82

On May 30 2014 22:13 googolplex wrote:

Show nested quote +

wow how ignorant about Flash. He is not that type of player. His strength is strategy, mindgames and macro, not turtling. I have to call you out on this subtle jab.

It was not meant as an insult, Flash's positional/defensive play is absolutely superb, i don't think anyone can deny that.

googolplex

United States280 Posts

May 30 2014 13:54 GMT

#83

On May 30 2014 22:52 Morbidius wrote:

Show nested quote +

It was not meant as an insult, Flash's positional/defensive play is absolutely superb, i don't think anyone can deny that.

So, I havent been following the games in some months. Care to link these swarmhost + spore games? Im curious, thanks

shadymmj

1906 Posts

May 30 2014 14:10 GMT

#84

On May 30 2014 22:00 googolplex wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 30 2014 21:54 yOngKIN wrote:

On May 30 2014 21:41 googolplex wrote:

On May 29 2014 18:21 SatedSC2 wrote:

On May 29 2014 17:41 googolplex wrote:
Now comes SC2. The biggest problem about SC2 is that it comes on this retarded triple expansion. Because of this, prolevel games are unstable simply because the game is not finished yet. New patches are being done. Incessant whining and crying happens. Nerfs and buffs disrupt presently held metagames. As a result, there is no stable metagama or even playstyle that could guarantee domination, not even with Flash`s mechanics and starsense.

I think that the "unstability" you speak of allows players to show who has the superior STRATEGIC mindset and in a real time STRATEGY game that's a good thing. Players like TAiLS and Elfi aren't mechanically brilliant, but they're so good at coming up with new builds and strategies that they manage to remain relevant, and I think that's a good thing. I never really liked playing BW because mechanics were emphasised too much relative to strategy. Mechanics obviously are important and do need to be important, but strategy should always be the most important element of a strategy game and I don't think that was the case in BW due to the insane mechanical demands.

EDIT:

Elephant In The Room: Never forgive, never forget. MC is still stomping face and taking cheques! :D

Are you f**king serious? Do you really think sc2 superior to bw in terms of strategy requirements? I have never seen a high-level bw game where strategy was secondary to mechanics. Mechanics allowed for the strategy, but strategy was the core of the game. Even a simple Stork 2gate forge goon rush was based on perfect timing, scouting, reaction, and all elements of strategy. This strategy of course becomes more efficient with perfect mechanics. In sc2 on the other hand, you can very well just turtle or rely on brute force, regardless of strategy, and win based solely on the strength of your army.

Moreover, the instability (I said unstable, not "unstability" idiot lol) is not related to the strategy element directly, but strategy is only possible because the game is not finished yet. It's like playing a game of basketball where the rules are not complete yet, hence, to further the comparison, some people dribble and take 5 steps, some people use the elbow to get rid of a defender, and then the rules change, and the game is different again. This is the reason for the lack of parity at the highlevel. Sure, some may be consistent, some may even "hack" the system (MC). In the end though, the fact that the game is being promoted at a competitive level while it is not yet finished is a scandal! Why did we ever fall for this.

As someone who is still bitter about the murder of bw for this rubbish they also call starcraft, I objectively think that strategy in be was more defined because of the mechanics. This means that a strategy is amplified or washed out depending on the mechanics of the player. Now, for sc2, because of things like smartcasting and the like, it becomes easy to win against strategy with just a few clicks.

"Objectively" lol. TO be honest, there is really no strategy per se in sc2. Look at incontrol, he talks about strategy and timings and all that shit but is never really pull it off. Of course, his lack of skill is one big reason for it, but another is that real strategy is really not a thing in sc2 unlike in bw. force is. in bw, you can win with just 2 dropships worth of mm and micro your way to eliminate the opponents economy and tech even if he already has archons or ultras. In sc2, colossus, templar, immortal,stalker and 1a, hands off the keyboard and dance to gg (exaggeration, but you get the point).

but that is not a "real strategy". that's being cute.

true, BW is a real strategy game, while I've come to realise that a lot of "strategy" in sc2 just involves altering timings and hoping for a misread.

When you talk strategy you should consider Economy, which is difficult to manage in BW and super simplified in sc2.
If you give me 2 hours (maybe even less) to practice a 3CC build in a no rush game I will be able to macro my way to 200/200 maybe 30 secs short of Flash. You tell me if any random C+ iccup player can pick up a mouse and macro to almost near a pro benchmark. Not happening son. This requires not purely mechanics but also a sense of build flow and management, there is solid proof because some 250 apm terrans are still superbad at eco management.

Also you should consider positions, how they are gained and lost. Easier to watch in action with flash vs fanta rather than try to explain, but in a war the process of opening and maintaining fronts that stretch for miles are important. It's really quite absurd to see an entire army packed into a blob moving across the battlefield at high speed.

Then we can talk about strategic options, because Terran in BW had so many standard options from pure bio, pure mech, biomech, valkonic, 2 port, fast vultures w/ mines...

In the next expansion sc2 should really reconsider how new units will interact to create new possibilities in overall strategy instead of 'filling holes' or 'expanding micro requirements'. It's true for example that SHs created a new strategy, but it involves infamous 2 hour long snoozefests.

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