EPTPost characteristic games of flash, link games in which he has shown his brilliance or anything like that.
Otherwise i dont see a whole lot of value in the OP :S
(although it did stir up some discussion)
Flash and SC2 playstyle - Page 3
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Bam Lee
2336 Posts
Post characteristic games of flash, link games in which he has shown his brilliance or anything like that. Otherwise i dont see a whole lot of value in the OP :S (although it did stir up some discussion) | ||
|
Almand
19 Posts
| ||
|
googolplex
United States280 Posts
(Warning though, I havent really followed the tournaments the last couple of months. so some things I say might be outdated.) Flash rose gradually as the best. He did not become god overnight, although early on, progamers like Oov and Savior are already commenting on his macro skills. He had (still has) a ridiculous work ethic, and he mastered every aspect of every strategy there is in BW. Moreover, BW was a complete game when he played it, and although there were often new tweaks, timings, and innovations, with the amount of knowledge, mechanics, experience, practice, and in-game scouting at the pro-level, nothing is a complete surprise. The only thing to do at the prolevel is execute and react and counteract perfectly. His tanklines are impenetrable, his marine drops are game-ender, and everything he does is perfect. Now comes SC2. The biggest problem about SC2 is that it comes on this retarded triple expansion. Because of this, prolevel games are unstable simply because the game is not finished yet. New patches are being done. Incessant whining and crying happens. Nerfs and buffs disrupt presently held metagames. As a result, there is no stable metagama or even playstyle that could guarantee domination, not even with Flash`s mechanics and starsense. Flash is playing SC2 as if he is playing BW, relying on his strengths on macro and muscle-oriented offense. I think he needs to unlearn his god-mode and learn SC2 from thr ground up, that way he really understands and can take advantage of all the idiosyncracies and quirks of the game. I personally do not think he will reach god status in SC2, but I think he will be around for a while at a decent sub-Code S level. | ||
|
ThunderGod
New Zealand897 Posts
On May 29 2014 08:25 electronic voyeur wrote: I don't recall exactly, but I remember it is almost a thing of lore among Broodwars fans that Flash played one game building hundreds of turrets just to nullify an enemy. I believe it was 108 turrets. | ||
|
SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
| ||
|
imrusty269
United States1404 Posts
On May 29 2014 18:21 SatedSC2 wrote: I think that the "unstability" you speak of allows players to show who has the superior STRATEGIC mindset and in a real time STRATEGY game that's a good thing. Players like TAiLS and Elfi aren't mechanically brilliant, but they're so good at coming up with new builds and strategies that they manage to remain relevant, and I think that's a good thing. I never really liked playing BW because mechanics were emphasised too much relative to strategy. Mechanics obviously are important and do need to be important, but strategy should always be the most important element of a strategy game and I don't think that was the case in BW due to the insane mechanical demands. EDIT: Elephant In The Room: Never forgive, never forget. MC is still stomping face and taking cheques! :D Strategy isn't fun to watch. It's the micro, macro, and tactics that create excitement. One can argue the fact that players like Elfi, TAiLs are relevant is what's wrong with SC2. | ||
|
SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
| ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19366 Posts
On May 29 2014 17:42 ThunderGod wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfuaywRsScA I believe it was 108 turrets. BeSt has built more gateways then that in a game. xD | ||
|
DinoToss
Poland507 Posts
On May 29 2014 18:21 SatedSC2 wrote: I think that the "unstability" you speak of allows players to show who has the superior STRATEGIC mindset and in a real time STRATEGY game that's a good thing. Players like TAiLS and Elfi aren't mechanically brilliant, but they're so good at coming up with new builds and strategies that they manage to remain relevant, and I think that's a good thing. I never really liked playing BW because mechanics were emphasised too much relative to strategy. Mechanics obviously are important and do need to be important, but strategy should always be the most important element of a strategy game and I don't think that was the case in BW due to the insane mechanical demands. EDIT: Elephant In The Room: Never forgive, never forget. MC is still stomping face and taking cheques! :D There were inferior mechanical players stomping mechanical geniuses in BW too (Prime example Savior). Arguably there were more playstyles in BW than in SC2 too. Current meta in SC2 is pretty straightforward actually, and the miniscule mechanical differences between players (note Korean players) does not provide strategical variety. When i talk about playstyles i don't mean exatcly build orders or openers. But rather how the game progressed what moves player made, and how he progressed throughout the match. Agressive playstyles and defensive playstyles were both viable. For example zerg could be more tricky than in SC2(how many times did u see drops being used in last year lol). Same wise with Protoss in BW (shuttle/reaver, templars yadayada). The only race that gained variety compared to BW is Terran, which resembles BW Protoss a lot. | ||
|
StarStruck
25339 Posts
| ||
|
ThunderGod
New Zealand897 Posts
On May 29 2014 20:16 BisuDagger wrote: BeSt has built more gateways then that in a game. xD Yah but Foru more impressive, building 50 gateways in a game and then managing to lose http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/4183-nada-vs-foru-50-gates-game | ||
|
SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
| ||
|
ETisME
12734 Posts
On May 29 2014 19:25 imrusty269 wrote: Strategy isn't fun to watch. It's the micro, macro, and tactics that create excitement. One can argue the fact that players like Elfi, TAiLs are relevant is what's wrong with SC2. Icefisher is crazy cool because how different and ground breaking it was | ||
|
sharkie
Austria18650 Posts
| ||
|
neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
| ||
|
GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On May 30 2014 19:35 SatedSC2 wrote: I wasn't saying that strategy didn't exist in BW, I just think that Mechanics > Strategy in BW and Strategy > Mechanics in SC2 and that's the reason Flash isn't as good at SC2 as he was at BW. It's also the reason I didn't like playing BW, the mechanical entry barrier is too high for my liking and SC2 has a better balance. This isn't close to being true. Flash was great because of his strategies and decision making. Yes, he also had very good mechanics, but so did everyone else. The only area he was really above everyone else at was macro. | ||
|
mantequilla
Turkey781 Posts
On May 29 2014 17:33 Almand wrote: Flash just should watch avilo stream. ^^This. | ||
|
Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On May 29 2014 19:29 SatedSC2 wrote: Subjective opinion is subjective. I'd much rather watch TAiLS do something crazy that I've never seen before, and try to wrap my head around how and why it worked, than watch Rain play a mechanically excellent, but incredibly dull and standard and passive, macro game. EDIT: Then again, I'm a pretty non-standard, aggressive/cheesy Protoss player, so it makes sense that I appreciate TAiLS more than Rain. I find watching macro games pretty boring unless both players are playing really aggressively (that's often not the case) and I find playing macro games even worse...  I agree with your point. While I do like watching perfect solid play micro/macro wise I also like when people apply some really well thought strategy to win despite inferior mechanics. | ||
|
DinoToss
Poland507 Posts
Games like FBH vs Savior or Jaedong (battlecruisers), Stork vs GGplay, Hiya vs Free (ghosts, nukes vs dark archon) are just examples of one of the best games ever played etc. Those games were already at a point where BW was figured out. And then we saw mass queen vs terran to counter mech became standard. Stuff like that don't happen much in SC2, because efficiency became key, there is no space around the edge. And that space used to be mechanical play, map features, BW glitches (mineral glitching for example). And don't forget people didn't max out in BW in some games ever, while in SC2 its around 11-14 SC2 minute mark. This is also another reason why efficiency is key in SC2, because the end line happens so quick. | ||
|
xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
On May 29 2014 19:25 imrusty269 wrote: Strategy isn't fun to watch. It's the micro, macro, and tactics that create excitement. One can argue the fact that players like Elfi, TAiLs are relevant is what's wrong with SC2. I watch sc2 mostly for the strategy, the only micro I like is the one of life. about flash, no one mentions the fact that osl was bo1, and the gsl format is to play 3 bo3, that doesn't fit with the flash's training way, where he can focus in just one map and one matchup. | ||
| ||
