Flash and SC2 playstyle - Page 4

On May 29 2014 18:21 SatedSC2 wrote:

I think that the "unstability" you speak of allows players to show who has the superior STRATEGIC mindset and in a real time STRATEGY game that's a good thing. Players like TAiLS and Elfi aren't mechanically brilliant, but they're so good at coming up with new builds and strategies that they manage to remain relevant, and I think that's a good thing. I never really liked playing BW because mechanics were emphasised too much relative to strategy. Mechanics obviously are important and do need to be important, but strategy should always be the most important element of a strategy game and I don't think that was the case in BW due to the insane mechanical demands.

EDIT:

Elephant In The Room: Never forgive, never forget. MC is still stomping face and taking cheques! :D

On May 29 2014 08:25 electronic voyeur wrote:
Like most of you, I joined TL at the tailend of the Broodwars era and at the beginning of the SC2 explosion. I was not keenly interested in Broodwars because I knew about the game through SC2, which is also the only version I play.

However, my curiosity led me to watch a few Broodwars games and know about its history and champions. One things struck me! Flash. He was unstoppable. He was superb. He was god. Many people (haters) credit it to his race, the Terran, which they say was responsible for most of the bonjwas (I dont know how to translate this, but looking at the history, this is used to refer to players who are dominant). But the more I watch Flash, the more I realize it is not the race, but really his style of play. He is a perfectionist. His actions are precise. He uses his tanks as an impenetrable wall. He knows how to mindgame his enemies, attacking in most creative and unexpected ways. I don't recall exactly, but I remember it is almost a thing of lore among Broodwars fans that Flash played one game building hundreds of turrets just to nullify an enemy. He will also not hesitate to be cautious and defend with a battery of tanks until he is ready to move out, all for the slightest advantage. He is creative and bold.

Now, this is the reason why Flash has so far failed to succeed in SC2. His style of play simply does not allow it. Terran is not exactly the strong defense-heavy race that it was in Broodwars. It is now weaker but with a lot more options. What hinders Flash now is the race's inability to be defensive when necessary, like Flash did with tanks and depots and Battlecruisers, and move out on strategic points to take advantage of mistakes made by the opponent. Flash cannot anymore rely on the strength of the tanks to leapfrog and strangle the enemy to death. The other races in SC2 have a lot of options to deal with this, and the general speed of SC2 itself does not permit it.

With the latest patch, If Flash played zerg, I think he would be able to optimize his skills and creativity with the Frenzy Broodlord, Ultralisk, and of course, the Swarm Host. I think zerg now has the features of what the terran race was in Broodwars.

Thanks for reading. I just wanted to share my thoughts on why Flash has so far struggled in SC2. I am reviewing the vods of other Broodwars players as well, and I will write about them in the future.

On May 29 2014 17:41 googolplex wrote:
Now comes SC2. The biggest problem about SC2 is that it comes on this retarded triple expansion. Because of this, prolevel games are unstable simply because the game is not finished yet. New patches are being done. Incessant whining and crying happens. Nerfs and buffs disrupt presently held metagames. As a result, there is no stable metagama or even playstyle that could guarantee domination, not even with Flash`s mechanics and starsense.

On May 29 2014 18:21 SatedSC2 wrote:

I think that the "unstability" you speak of allows players to show who has the superior STRATEGIC mindset and in a real time STRATEGY game that's a good thing. Players like TAiLS and Elfi aren't mechanically brilliant, but they're so good at coming up with new builds and strategies that they manage to remain relevant, and I think that's a good thing. I never really liked playing BW because mechanics were emphasised too much relative to strategy. Mechanics obviously are important and do need to be important, but strategy should always be the most important element of a strategy game and I don't think that was the case in BW due to the insane mechanical demands.

EDIT:

Elephant In The Room: Never forgive, never forget. MC is still stomping face and taking cheques! :D

On May 30 2014 21:41 googolplex wrote:


Are you f**king serious? Do you really think sc2 superior to bw in terms of strategy requirements? I have never seen a high-level bw game where strategy was secondary to mechanics. Mechanics allowed for the strategy, but strategy was the core of the game. Even a simple Stork 2gate forge goon rush was based on perfect timing, scouting, reaction, and all elements of strategy. This strategy of course becomes more efficient with perfect mechanics. In sc2 on the other hand, you can very well just turtle or rely on brute force, regardless of strategy, and win based solely on the strength of your army.

Moreover, the instability (I said unstable, not "unstability" idiot lol) is not related to the strategy element directly, but strategy is only possible because the game is not finished yet. It's like playing a game of basketball where the rules are not complete yet, hence, to further the comparison, some people dribble and take 5 steps, some people use the elbow to get rid of a defender, and then the rules change, and the game is different again. This is the reason for the lack of parity at the highlevel. Sure, some may be consistent, some may even "hack" the system (MC). In the end though, the fact that the game is being promoted at a competitive level while it is not yet finished is a scandal! Why did we ever fall for this.

On May 30 2014 21:54 yOngKIN wrote:

As someone who is still bitter about the murder of bw for this rubbish they also call starcraft, I objectively think that strategy in be was more defined because of the mechanics. This means that a strategy is amplified or washed out depending on the mechanics of the player. Now, for sc2, because of things like smartcasting and the like, it becomes easy to win against strategy with just a few clicks.

On May 30 2014 22:00 googolplex wrote:

"Objectively" lol. TO be honest, there is really no strategy per se in sc2. Look at incontrol, he talks about strategy and timings and all that shit but is never really pull it off. Of course, his lack of skill is one big reason for it, but another is that real strategy is really not a thing in sc2 unlike in bw. force is. in bw, you can win with just 2 dropships worth of mm and micro your way to eliminate the opponents economy and tech even if he already has archons or ultras. In sc2, colossus, templar, immortal,stalker and 1a, hands off the keyboard and dance to gg (exaggeration, but you get the point).