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On May 05 2014 01:05 coL.hendralisk wrote:Sucks to hear about this news  In regards to the DETL, I was pretty surprised rifkins offer to help cast was denied, it seemed only beneficial to have him bring in more numbers for free as well as provide a better cast overall
We denied it because we were trying to push our brand, if it was on BaseTrades channel, it wouldn't really be as much ours, but BaseTrades. We have nothing against him and I appreciated his help, but we decided to try and do things our way on our channel. Maybe it would have been different if we let Rifkin do it on his channel, but also maybe not. Also when going to sponsors about being a sponsor for the season 2, it seems silly to ask them to sponsor something that we don't have alot to do with, if you get what I mean, since we would have just been organizing something for BaseTrade to do.
Overall numbers aside, DETL went very well, and im extremely happy with it =)
-Tbatz
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Hmm somehow I have never heard of this team before, but seems sad that you guys are disbanding.
GG, best of luck ^_^
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My opinion, I believe it was a mistake to not use Basetrade to help build your brand. That isn't to say you would solely rely on it, but when you first start off you need a launching pad to jump off. I understand your reasoning, but you have to look at the current scene. Many tournament organizer use community casters. It seems to be the ecosystem of the SC2 scene at the moment. Khaldor casted for Vasacast and is casting right now for TakeTV. Madals does casts for other tournaments on his own channels.
You need these personality casters to help boost your brand. Rifkin, Khaldor, et al, have taken the time to build their brand and one of them extended the olive branch. You are trying to build your brand from the ground. Did you expect it to flourish after one season? Shit, BasetradeTV had ~100 viewers in the beginning. It would be foolish to not test out their help at least.
I know its easy for me to say "you should have done this", but honestly it seems like you wanted to use your brand and channel because of stubbornness. Instead, you should have agreed to accept Rifkin's help on his conditions, so you can leverage his audience. Once DETL received significant exposure from Basetrade, then thank Rifkin for his assistance but tell him you no longer need him.
With regards to your own casters, guys it is a full time job trying to take your personality into esports. Aside from just casting games, you need to be super active on social media, TL threads, Bnet forums, and any other community. You need to promote the shit out of yourself and brand. You have to reply to every tweet, message, email, thread comment, etc. I followed Basetrade's twitter for a bit, and Rifkin replied quite promptly to tweets. There was a reddit thread from a fan that thanked Rifkin and Basetrade. You need that interaction, and without it you guys are just voices that will be forgotten after the match.
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On May 05 2014 03:05 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
With regards to your own casters, guys it is a full time job trying to take your personality into esports. Aside from just casting games, you need to be super active on social media, TL threads, Bnet forums, and any other community. You need to promote the shit out of yourself and brand. You have to reply to every tweet, message, email, thread comment, etc. I followed Basetrade's twitter for a bit, and Rifkin replied quite promptly to tweets. There was a reddit thread from a fan that thanked Rifkin and Basetrade. You need that interaction, and without it you guys are just voices that will be forgotten after the match.
I agree. This is very important to do. I do want to present some information here though.
Take me for example. I already:
- Spend time keeping active on twitter/social media
- Post on TL and reddit(as I am doing now) when I feel I have something to contribute/say
- Tweet out about things I'm involved in as well as others I like supporting
- Posted every single day I went live with my own show(breaking out) despite having chains of 8-10 posts of just me in the thread
- Respond to nearly every one of the few messages I get on TL, Twitch, e-mail, reddit, etc. Often times even the trolls.
- Appeal to bigger personalities to help get my name out there by asking for retweets and even getting Axeltoss on board for casting Season 1 of my tournament
- Call into podcast shows like Inside the Game and participate in discussions
- Continue to seek out more casting gigs of various ranges from pro players(Dreamhack), to semi pro players(Breaking Out), to amateur(AHGL/CSL) that would broaden opportunities to reach new audiences.
A lot of these things I would do regardless of whether I was promoting a brand but a lot of them I do because of it. I'm sure there's more stuff I could be doing but I think it's unfair to just assume we aren't taking an active part in putting ourselves out there as becoming well known is a lot more than just purely promotion.
So yes I agree that community interaction is important for aspiring commentators! I'm just saying don't be so quick to assume we're not there, interacting just because we're not well recognized yet(or hell, barely known in my case after doing this for 3 years). I only chose myself as an example because I am aware of all the stuff I'm doing, but there are plenty of other commentators are doing the same thing in their own way. Temp0 is a great example as he is constantly tweeting people, casting different leagues, creating other content like music that gets his name out there, interacts with fans while streaming for 5-6 hours at a time on a relatively consistent basis.
Anyways, tl;dr: Yes promotion is important. No it's not the the main reason every(or possibly even most) aspiring commentator is not more well known. Some people, like me, need to suck less at their actual commentary skills and game knowledge.
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I didn't mean to assume you didn't do it, but I gave DETL a try a couple of times, and during which the interaction seemed low.
I don't want to make my post be a "this is why you failed" response, because I don't have all the information to make that claim, but these are only observations I made while giving you guys a chance.
I am rather surprised though you guys decided to fold so quickly. Although things seemed to start rough, I truly think you guys had a chance to blow up. At this point maybe Deimos should have examined their weakness and worked on closing any of those weak links.
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I can understand wanting to build your own brand, but in such a small saturated community it can be a very long process. A lot of the already established brands/players/personalities have been streaming and creating content for 2+ years with <10 viewers before things took off.
If you weren't prepared for the long haul to build a brand on your own then using something like BaseTradeTV for exposure would of been a wise choice.
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I agree Ronin, trying to build up a brand in whatever community is a long process. It starts from the 40-50 viewers you had in the first season, and slowly snowball it from there.
Deimos kind of gave up before the snowball effect even started. I don't know what your expectations were after the first season, but maybe you should have started a little smaller. $1,500 for the first season of DETL seemed rather large for a start up team. I think maybe even a $500 prize pool, or just a bunch of show matches challenging other teams for $100.
Honestly, if you guys keep going from here and not quit, maybe something can still happen. Who knows.
For now, it is my opinion Deimos quit before it even fully started.
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I don't think you guys understand what's going on here?
Tbatz was putting up his own money to fund Deimos and couldn't do it anymore. The DETL was a last ditch effort to attempt at sustainability. They weren't expecting it to be a smash success but they were hoping it would be. I'm quite confident it was known that unless the DETL got them noticed by a big sponsor, they would be closing up shop.
That's why it would be incredibly stupid to accept rifkin's offer; maybe it would have been better for them in the long-haul if they were committed to 3-4 seasons of DETL (though I still doubt it), but they needed sponsors for Deimos immediately. They didn't get any, and so are closing up shop.
Everyone knows how to slowly build an audience. That's not what Deimos needed. They needed a miracle season and they didn't get one. Now they're gone. I'm at peace with that. But when you're looking to get your company noticed, you don't put another company's sign on your door.
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On May 05 2014 07:50 SC2CTL wrote:
I don't think you guys understand what's going on here?
Tbatz was putting up his own money to fund Deimos and couldn't do it anymore. The DETL was a last ditch effort to attempt at sustainability. They weren't expecting it to be a smash success but they were hoping it would be. I'm quite confident it was known that unless the DETL got them noticed by a big sponsor, they would be closing up shop.
That's why it would be incredibly stupid to accept rifkin's offer; maybe it would have been better for them in the long-haul if they were committed to 3-4 seasons of DETL (though I still doubt it), but they needed sponsors for Deimos immediately. They didn't get any, and so are closing up shop.
Everyone knows how to slowly build an audience. That's not what Deimos needed. They needed a miracle season and they didn't get one. Now they're gone. I'm at peace with that. But when you're looking to get your company noticed, you don't put another company's sign on your door.
Pretty damn accurate.
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On May 05 2014 07:17 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
I agree Ronin, trying to build up a brand in whatever community is a long process. It starts from the 40-50 viewers you had in the first season, and slowly snowball it from there.
Deimos kind of gave up before the snowball effect even started. I don't know what your expectations were after the first season, but maybe you should have started a little smaller. $1,500 for the first season of DETL seemed rather large for a start up team. I think maybe even a $500 prize pool, or just a bunch of show matches challenging other teams for $100.
Honestly, if you guys keep going from here and not quit, maybe something can still happen. Who knows.
For now, it is my opinion Deimos quit before it even fully started.
If only money grew from trees as you demand, then more teams could go on without "quitting".
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As one of the casters from the DETL I'm really sad that Deimos had to close it's doors. I really enjoyed working with everyone on DETL not only on the production side of things but seeing all the up and coming players.
I really appreciate everyone that came out every week and watched our broadcast live or just checked out the top 5 plays of the week. All of your support really helps for anyone trying to fill the void of NA based team leagues.
As for Deimos over all they had some great NA players that not only qualified for WCS America but were also showing amazing play in the team league. Everyone else involved in Deimos(Management, Writers, and the media team) needs to be commended on all their time/energy/money that they put into it.
Best of luck to everyone involved it was a real pleasure working with you!
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I understand the situation, I read the thread and many of the responses. I understand he funded the team and the league from his own pocket, which is why I believe he shouldn't have started so large. If my budget for content and promotion is small, I would rather stretch it out as far as possible, instead of using it up in one big bang.
And doodsmack, I am not suggesting money is easy to come by, but perhaps they should have planned for the next five years, instead of expecting one season of DETL to blow up.
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Some thing about hindsight being 20/20 and if it was easy, everyone would do it.
Sorry to hear it didn't work out guys. I'm sure you tried hard and did the best you could.
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when I saw Deimos I thought of phobos and diemos, the two moons of Mars.
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DETL was a lot of fun. Thanks a bunch.
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While i was on this team, it was great. good luck to you tbatz
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On May 05 2014 00:24 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 18:33 -Kyo- wrote:
The posts, and caster posts especially, in this thread are pretty disgusting. The devolution of this forum overall is saddening.
Anyway, my 2c: From a player perspective Deimos managers were very nice and inclusive to me even when I was not sure what I wanted to do when I was actively playing the game. Moreover, their players were incredibly nice and overall this team must have had tons of great times together from what I could tell. It's sad to see another NA team go.
NA eSports continues to backtrack when things like this happen. If people cannot recognize how big of a deal things like this are then in a few years when all that's left is Liquid and EG you can stop for a few seconds and think why there are not any amazing amateur players coming up in the NA SC2 scene anymore. Though, you could be like a number of individuals in this thread and just write them off as a team who didn't try and had a "bad plan", hah.
Good luck in the future guys! Siphon I know you got contacted :p You shit on constructive criticism then proceed to say you're saddened by the devolution of the forum? lol alright buddy.
You must have missed something. You cannot reasonably mean to constructively criticize anything in the OP considering the team is disbanding - unless you think by criticizing their plans and structure they'll magically come back and fix everything just for you - or that some other organization that has the means to actually address their problems won't do so without your criticism? Lol...
This thread should be a place where you thank Deimos for the effort and support they gave to the semi-pro players in NA. I'm not sure if you're a player, but Deimos was one of the only legitimate places for up start players in NA and I'm positive that players like bails, koma and more were happy to have been on that team.
The posts of some individuals in this thread highlight the drama and unneeded negative comments which are so prevalent now and days on this forum. (which i'll add generally come from random ass community members who know nothing about the inter-workings of the players/teams/events in NA)
basically this: + Show Spoiler +On May 05 2014 11:48 Plansix wrote:
Some thing about hindsight being 20/20 and if it was easy, everyone would do it.
Sorry to hear it didn't work out guys. I'm sure you tried hard and did the best you could.
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, which comes with me no longer being able to financially support the team since I got laid off without much notice, and my trade being in a very dry season, cannot find a job.
Maybe I should add this in, I wasn't building the team off getting sponsors fast, I unexpectedly got laid off from my job, and couldn't get another one. I was forced to rely on getting sponsors shortly after I started the DETL when I lost my job.
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On May 04 2014 13:12 TRaFFiC wrote:
One pet peeve of mine is having less than Master league casters. It seems to me that you simply can't have lower league players casting GMs. But hey, qualified people with shit tons of free time aren't always available.
Even though I am a high Master league player, I hear this all the time and I couldn't disagree more. So many people seem to think you don't know shit unless you've played at a high level, which is completely false.
I don't have to be a Dentist too look at someone's teeth and say they look nice. There are very respected experts in almost every walk of life who have never proven themselves at the highest level. All kinds of professional sports (Football, Basketball, Hockey, Soccer etc) have casters, analysts, writers and all sorts of respected people working in that sport who never played one minute of high level competition...
Someone doesn't have to practice 12 hours a day and have ridiculous reaction time + dexterity + apm to be a student of the game, know builds, know maps, know what counters what, know about the community, and be a good at articulating words during a match. Those things are completely unrelated to their ladder rank.
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Sorry you guys gotta close up, but damn good effort. We don't really see too much of that from the NA scene nowadays, besides MLG and CSL. I applaud your efforts and hope that you can find a place that better suits what you are looking for.
GLHF!
^And to the post above, that is why we dont see any caster tournaments and more people trying to emerge as casters because of the elitist attitude this community puts forth sometimes. Casters don't want to play because if they play poorly or if they just get destroyed by pros like ToD, Ret and Demuslim they would be shafted for not being good enough and their integrity with the game becomes questioned, for no reason at all.
They have anxiety thinking that they have to be at a certain level to break through, but can't/might not be able to. Casters and personalities on camera should be the ones studying the game (which comes natural with commentating more), and working on their interpersonal and on-camera skills and personality.
Something Deimos did was good in that they had casters from their own organization and did YouTube stuff involved with their team league. Commendable work by such a grassroots sort of group.
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EPT
