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On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations.
To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it.
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On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it.
He had been underperforming for an insanely long time, probably more than triple the amount of time that Dear was on Mouz. Eventually every team has to let players go and I'm sure Puma knew well ahead of time what was coming. Dear on the other hand was signed when he was possibly a top 5 player in the world, and because he hasn't retained it for 3 months he's gone? Those two scenarios aren't really comparable.
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Hmm terribad move by Mouz, makes them look really bad.
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On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it.
Actually EG made an offer to Puma, but he wanted more money and thought he could get it else where, but didn't. But his time on EG as a whole cannot be looked at as under performing. Until Jaedong, he gave them their best SC2 results. And he's actually won bigger tournaments than JD.
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On April 12 2014 12:31 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Actually EG made an offer to Puma, but he wanted more money and thought he could get it else where, but didn't. But his time on EG as a whole cannot be looked at as under performing. Until Jaedong, he gave them their best SC2 results. And he's actually won bigger tournaments than JD.
I love Puma, but you don't ever give a contract for previous achievements. At the time, Puma had none in a LONG time and EG probably didn't think he would be able to bring good value to the team.
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This makes no sense. A great player joins your team. Player gets worse. Team drops player.
The sweetest ending to this story if he rejoins a KeSPa team and goes back to being stellar.
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On April 12 2014 11:57 skorched wrote:
Hmm terribad move by Mouz, makes them look really bad.
Agree, name a single Mouz player that has accomplished what Dear has in sc2. Dropping a player just because they are Korean seems so terrible IMO.
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Canada16217 Posts
Teams in korea that need a Protoss currently: StarTale, Prime, Samsung Galaxy, and maybe KT.
Would be fine with seeing Dear play on any of those teams in Proleague.
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On April 12 2014 12:44 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 12:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Actually EG made an offer to Puma, but he wanted more money and thought he could get it else where, but didn't. But his time on EG as a whole cannot be looked at as under performing. Until Jaedong, he gave them their best SC2 results. And he's actually won bigger tournaments than JD. I love Puma, but you don't ever give a contract for previous achievements. At the time, Puma had none in a LONG time and EG probably didn't think he would be able to bring good value to the team.
I didn't say they did give him a contract for previous achievements. But they did offer him a contract, he declined it, which is how he left EG. No doubt it was less money than what they had been paying him previously as he had fallen off.
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This is a load of crap. What if I ran a software shop and I hire an Indian guy, convince him to turn down other really good opportunities back in India, then four months later fire him because, well, I only work with Angolans. It's almost antisocial.
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On April 12 2014 13:02 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Teams in korea that need a Protoss currently: StarTale, Prime, Samsung Galaxy, and maybe KT.
Would be fine with seeing Dear play on any of those teams in Proleague.
Dear to Samsung would be really cool. I feel like Samsung has needed a new big protoss heavy hitter after JangBi left and imo Dear would be perfect for that job.
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We all don't know the real reason.
But I want to present a different kind of scenario:
So imagine you are Dear at the end of November 2013. You started playing competitively more than 3 years ago. All this time you played your heart out with nothing to show. Your team is in dire straits, practically dead, you probably don't get paid a salary. And then at last you have your big breakthrough, a miracle run to the top.
Is is so hard to imagine, that you want to finally get 'paid out'?
Go with the highest bidder. Who cares if the contract is only for 4 month? Earning real money was always the goal.
Long term career planing in SC2? Dream on. Just harvest the hay while the sun still shines...
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TLADT24920 Posts
On April 12 2014 14:08 lord_nibbler wrote:
We all don't know the real reason.
But I want to present a different kind of scenario:
So imagine you are Dear at the end of November 2013. You started playing competitively more than 3 years ago. All this time you played your heart out with nothing to show. Your team is in dire straits, practically dead, you probably don't get paid a salary. And then at last you have your big breakthrough, a miracle run to the top.
Is is so hard to imagine, that you want to finally get 'paid out'?
Go with the highest bidder. Who cares if the contract is only for 4 month? Earning real money was always the goal.
Long term career planing in SC2? Dream on. Just harvest the hay while the sun still shines...
This pretty much destroys your theory lol:
On April 12 2014 08:06 Musicus wrote:
Seems like the change in management was part of why it didn't last longer.
more specifically, the last bit. The guy who helped get him signed mentions it wasn't supposed to end in April. I doubt Dear would've also joined the team so that it ends in 4 months time(or someone said 3 months earlier, can't remember timeframe).
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And to think Mouz used to be one of my favorite european teams. This really changes everything.
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I really wish Mouz had stuck with Dear for at least a little while longer.
SC2 is an inconsistent game, and if Dear had a bit more time, he would've produced some good results no doubt :/
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Mouz just became a lot less sympathetic to me after those wake tweets.
Hope Dear goes to a Kespa team or Acer
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Deer took a risk going with Mouz, but look at the alternative. Competition for spots on Korean teams is more cutthroat than ever. I don't think he'll be the last Korean to aim for an European team. That said, there are maybe 3 or 4 players in the world which can maintain their world class skill on foreign teams... JD, Innovation, Polt.
I doubt this was skill related. Deer was probably costing them a lot of money which they want to spend elsewhere.
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Dear to go to KTRolster! GLHF
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On April 12 2014 04:07 lantz wrote:
Well no point in keeping him since he's not Code S
Did he even win a GSL ??
On April 12 2014 03:13 johnbongham wrote:
This kind of stuff gives me way more respect for other Korean pros who didn't abandon their teams as soon as they won a tournament or two in order to get cash in on a fat payday from a foreign team. If you want to play that game you better back it up.
you and johnbongham are complete morons...
not updated to events and simple facts
are you really a starcraft fan/player?
dear.you can still make it. claw your way up.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 12 2014 13:02 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Teams in korea that need a Protoss currently: StarTale, Prime, Samsung Galaxy, and maybe KT.
Would be fine with seeing Dear play on any of those teams in Proleague.
It's like 4 months back :D
Inb4 Dear joins Planetkey Dynamics with Oz and everyone will be like - "Wat".
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EPT
