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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Fall to Code B, get dropped
ouch
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51475 Posts
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United States97276 Posts
wow this seems pretty sudden. seems weird that they reached out to USA temporarily for Illusion and then Korea for Dear but then dropped them pretty soon after. Both Dear and Illusion were only on the team for about 5 months. Feb-July for Illusion, Dec to April for Dear
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Good for Dear, I honestly feel like he needs a stricter practice lifestyle.
This kid is way too talented to be where he is.
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Well, that didn't last long. Maybe they wanted him to move to EU and he declined, really wonder what could be the reason for leaving that fast.
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I guess that really explains why Dear has been doing poorly lately. Bad team dynamics can really take a toll on your performance 
And mouzsports was definitely not a good fit for him... For being one of the deadliest Protosses with crisp execution, he should not have a relaxed foreign team regime to keep his blade sharp.
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please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
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Wow. I suppose their team goal is nice but a little bit surprising.
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They really like to point out that they are all about europe. Same story when they parted with Illusion
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I think this is best for both sides.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
I just hope they didn't boot him because of middling performance
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Thats really weird. I mean at least give it one year, He did not even really become an identity of mousesports in such a short time. Im sure Dear will get a good team.
Mousesports really needs some kind of better marketing because they have no player branding at all imo.
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Ha not surprised mouz always seem to drop players which slightly under perform. Hope Dear can get a good team this time!
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On April 11 2014 17:00 shin_toss wrote:
i hope kespa gets him :D
YoeFlashWolves.Dear plz
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Code B -> insta-kick from team... what a harsh penalty
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Mousesports couldnt have picked a worse time for this announcement lol
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Now I can't get the image of TB dropping Innovation after last season's fall from Code A out of my head.
Good for Dear, obviously being on an overseas team didn't agree with him. You have to wonder how long he's been sitting on this information, and how much it's affected his performance (on top of the lack of a rigorous schedule).
edit: sucks about the varsity jacket though. I liked that one.
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Could it really be because of not making it through to Code S? I hope there is some more fundamental reason for it.
Maybe he was contacted by a Korean team?
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On April 11 2014 16:56 mikkmagro wrote:
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
Welmu is currently doing well on NewRoSoft, what makes you think he'll switch?
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Australia18228 Posts
On April 11 2014 16:56 mikkmagro wrote:
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
NrS manager would never let go of Welmu
mousesports is going to get destroyed in ATC without Dear
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United States97276 Posts
On April 11 2014 17:04 Daeracon wrote:
Could it really be because of not making it through to Code S? I hope there is some more fundamental reason for it.
Maybe he was contacted by a Korean team?
The announcement came so soon after his Code A matches that I feel like the decision would have come even before he played today. It's probably other reasons but I'm just speculating so I could be completely wrong
pretty harsh announcement timing though
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Seriously mouz? Right after the gsl matches?
Wow.
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Russian Federation367 Posts
Whatever, mouz does not deserve such player as a Dear. Hes a beast compared to them.
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Russian Federation367 Posts
On April 11 2014 17:04 Crot4le wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 16:56 mikkmagro wrote:
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu Welmu is currently doing well on NewRoSoft, what makes you think he'll switch?
Money
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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Dear has to feel terrible. Everything went wrong since joining mouz. Too bad. Also I don't like mouz' politics of acquiring a player and then dropping him so soon after. You would expect such a big team to act more thoughtfully.
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On April 11 2014 17:02 Painiyff wrote:
Code B -> insta-kick from team... what a harsh penalty
I dont think this was a panalty, just a bad timed coincidence. Maybe he just didnt fit in, or couldnt be integrated in the team. Or it was his fault, maybe he didnt want to learn english or practice enough with the rest of the team. We dont know, and there can be so many reasons, so stop speculating...
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United States33327 Posts
EE HAN TIMING!!!!!
In all seriousness, I hope finds Dear a good team to take him in.
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Probably doesn't worth the money anymore
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ACERDEAR IT MUST HAPPEN.
Please make it happen.
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rofl best timing ever. Doubt he will go back to Korean teams though since most of them already have equally strong tosses except maybe KHAN or Prime
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Is it just me or does the announcement really sound like "we kicked him off the team"? Players way less skilled than Dear get tactful "it was a mutual decision" type send-offs but here the message seems very clear. Combined with the timing, it's pretty damn disrespectful.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 11 2014 17:10 azzih wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 17:02 Painiyff wrote:
Code B -> insta-kick from team... what a harsh penalty I dont think this was a panalty, just a bad timed coincidence. Maybe he just didnt fit in, or couldnt be integrated in the team. Or it was his fault, maybe he didnt want to learn english or practice enough with the rest of the team. We dont know, and there can be so many reasons, so stop speculating...
With this kind of timing there was always going to be speculation
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KT.Dear PLEASE
I might even change my team tag
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It really didn´t make much sense to begin with.
Dear should go to IM, they need another Protoss.
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Holy fuck @_@
I don't even...
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United States97276 Posts
On April 11 2014 17:17 Daswollvieh wrote:
It really didn´t make much sense to begin with.
Dear should go to IM, they need another Protoss.
They already have 6 protoss on their proleague roster. Ruin, Squirtle, Trap, Yonghwa, HerO, Oz
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Code B is literally Nerd Hell for Dear. Jesus.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 11 2014 17:18 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 17:17 Daswollvieh wrote:
It really didn´t make much sense to begin with.
Dear should go to IM, they need another Protoss. They already have 6 protoss on their proleague roster. Ruin, Squirtle, Trap, Yonghwa, HerO, Oz
Panic for PL as well
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I want him to join a Kespa team, he was so fun to cheer for WCS Season 3 finals and in GSL
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I think this is good for Dear not being on a foreign team seemed like it didn´t really worked for him.with Mouz
I´m a little bit worried for Mouzsports though, they have been dropping and adding players a lot lately.
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United States33327 Posts
Many sad tweets from Dear
his ID is now @poordear, should form a team with sadarthur :[
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France9034 Posts
Ouch, it hurts...
I was so hoping this would work well but... apparently no.
I hope he'll find a team soon enough! YoeFlashWolves would be sick!
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wow that timing... Though it's probably for the better. Mouz did not seem to be profit all that much and vice versa.
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Wow, Dear must be having one of the worst days in his life.
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Damn, this seems like a rough time for @PoorDear. I hope he joins a kespa team, or one that can support him well (acer maybe?). It would be awesome to see him back in form. What Kespa team would take him though? I can't see KT Dear, nor IMDear. Maybe JinAir? Him and $O$ on the same team would be awesome.
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On April 11 2014 17:04 Crot4le wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 16:56 mikkmagro wrote:
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu Welmu is currently doing well on NewRoSoft, what makes you think he'll switch?
I'm guessing an organisation like mouz has more resources, is more prestigious, and it would make him part of an overall better group of players. (Though I really admire what NrS has done)
On April 11 2014 17:04 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 16:56 mikkmagro wrote:
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu
please pick up welmu NrS manager would never let go of Welmu mousesports is going to get destroyed in ATC without Dear
It will be extremely hard to defeat teams like Liquid, mYinsanity or Acer, but if there's one foreign team that can kill Koreans, it's mouz. Vortix all-killed MVP in Shoutcraft...HasuObs destroyed face in the Katowice qualifiers etc. I don't think Dear would have made a massive difference considering that TaeJa, StarDust, jjakji, MMA, HerO and Innovation are in much better shape at the moment. All the other players in the league can be killed by mouz's current lineup imo.
Dear was just regressing on mouz, he really needs a KeSPA regimen to flourish. Hopefully him leaving just before the start of Round 3 of Proleague means that he already received an offer. You might say that it's unfair that he was let go so quick, but hey, his team disbanded and he got a salary and opportunities to travel to foreign tournaments..
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On April 11 2014 17:11 Waxangel wrote:
EE HAN TIMING!!!!!
In all seriousness, I hope finds Dear a good team to take him in.
LOL
damn sucks for dear. dude's so talented too
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On April 11 2014 17:00 Zealously wrote:
I just hope they didn't boot him because of middling performance
its obvious! no crap will not buy because of that
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Samsung could use a good protoss I think
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For the best really. Doesn't make alot of sense to have one guy on the team in Korea and everyone else in Europe. The Korea player gets the bad end of the deal due to being so many time zones away from his practice partners and having limited ability to chat with the team.
Any kespa team would be wise to pick Dear up
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4713 Posts
On April 11 2014 17:00 Zealously wrote:
I just hope they didn't boot him because of middling performance
Even with his dip in performance he still got 2nd place at ASUS RoG and had a top 16 GSL, its not the most terrible of performances and other teams have tolerated less.
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These things always make me wonder what "contracts" actually matter? It shouldn't be that easy, unless Dear really wants to leave them as well?
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wow that's unexpected good luck dear!
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Reality check for Dear. Youre not on Kespa anymore, results is not the most important thing in the world. I feel like they might have let him stay if he tried to reach out to his fans more often. He didnt try to speak English, he barely tweeted, I never saw him stream. He could have done more.
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On April 11 2014 17:28 Orcasgt24 wrote:
For the best really. Doesn't make alot of sense to have one guy on the team in Korea and everyone else in Europe. The Korea player gets the bad end of the deal due to being so many time zones away from his practice partners and having limited ability to chat with the team.
Any kespa team would be wise to pick Dear up
not so wise considering
- his recent performance is bad
- hes not in WCS
- PL R3 starting soon, no way to field him this round
- who hasnt got enough good protosses really?
tldr: hes in a world of hurt
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Wow, was about to say that it's only been a few months. I''m sure Dear can find a new team pretty quickly given his past results, but not sure since he's in Code B atm.
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ouch. that timing, just after the rosters for next spl season are out. good luck dear, you'll find a good team soon!
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however the strengths and tradition of mousesports lie within the European StarCraft scene. Therefore mousesports and Dear have parted ways with immediate effect.
Sounds as if they suddenly realized their strength lies with European players for no obvious reason, and immediately fired Dear based on his nationality.
Sometimes PR talk is funny.
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We are lying to ourselves if we don't think its because of his recent results. He was literally wearing the mouz jacket in the booth and an hour later they "part ways". He got kicked, mouz saw his less than stellar performance and him not being in Europe and they figured, If you aren't in Code S and aren't here we don't really need you.
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sk Matic "mouz (Z)Starbuck" Dejac
its matic dejak! and he is from slovenia not slovakia.
in the name of all the slovenian community: FUCK YOU ignorant pricks. learn your geography
User was warned for this post
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On April 11 2014 17:42 krneki wrote:its matic dejak! and he is from slovenia not slovakia. in the name of all the slovenian community: FUCK YOU ignorant pricks. learn your geography
Hey its one letter don't be so harsh
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On April 11 2014 17:42 krneki wrote:its matic dejak! and he is from slovenia not slovakia. in the name of all the slovenian community: FUCK YOU ignorant pricks. learn your geography
Well I'm sorry but don't be harsh please.
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I feel like gambling. What odds do I get for mouz.Beasty?
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On April 11 2014 17:45 AlternativeEgo wrote:
I feel like gambling. What odds do I get for mouz.Beasty?
Same for Prime winning proleague
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United States33327 Posts
On April 11 2014 17:42 krneki wrote:its matic dejak! and he is from slovenia not slovakia. in the name of all the slovenian community: FUCK YOU ignorant pricks. learn your geography
why u gotta be so mad? u have the prettier flag 
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Russian Federation134 Posts
Very harsh for Dear. But despite the fact that he was doing reasonably well in team leagues I have to say that I like the decision of Mouz to refocus on the European scene. Too bad they dropped Mana though
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Well here's to hoping Dear gets on a good KESPA team. Though say he does in the next few days, will he able to play in Round 3 of proleague? My guess is not since they released current active rosters participating.
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United States97276 Posts
On April 11 2014 17:51 yoshi245 wrote:
Well here's to hoping Dear gets on a good KESPA team. Though say he does in the next few days, will he able to play in Round 3 of proleague? My guess is not since they released current active rosters participating.
It's too late. He would have to wait for Round 4
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What a shit day this was...... cant wait what else will come today
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KT.Dear , Jin Air.Dear, or Acer.Dear is my guess
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They probably thought he was going to win everything for them and after he didn't produce any results they realized the massive contract wasn't worth their money.
Pretty fucking brutal to terminate his contract though
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His tweets contradict the statement how could he had nice time with the team while all sorts of bad things were happening ?
Things were not going well so Mous decided to drop him long before that code A is how i see it.
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I hope mouz picks up a new player for ATC.
Good luck to Dear. I like watching his play and I hope he gets a good team!
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That's so sad. I hope someone picks him up soon.
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Pick him up Acer, do it do it do it! It's your best chance to get a "decent" (lol) Protoss :D pleeeeeeeease
Also: Wow, that didn't last long, sad for Dear and Mouz. Luckily they are doing really well lately. But still super sad
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If he was looking for a KeSPA team, would he really ask on his Twitter for "anygood team"? I don't think that's how KeSPA recruits...
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Well that obviously sucks for Dear, especially at this time when roster for round 3 of SPL are fixed already. He is good enough though to find a new team asap (I hope...).
For mouz it is the correct decision to focus on a European line-up again, was really out of character to go for Korean mercenaries.
Best of luck to Dear, may he find a team that gives him some stability
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Austria24417 Posts
Hope he finds a new team quickly, he's a beast when he's in shape!
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hilarious how TL doesnt even know the country codes for european countries. i can understand u dont know the exact code, but putting SK (there is no k in slovenia) and not noticing different flags from europe is indeed quite hilarious
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I'm glad Dear got dropped. Mouz isn't really the best team for a Korean to go to honestly. He seemed so out of place on their roster and they never really did anything to support him or get him extra marketing. Not to mention they had 0 experience dealing with the Korean scene and a big name Korean signing in the past. It always seemed like he was just in Korea by himself and seemed even isolated from all the Koreans competing in Code S and what not. Hopefully now he can find a good team that will take care of him. I feel like something needed to change for him seeing as how his results recently have been pretty terrible.
GL to Dear and Mouz. You have to wonder if this news was affecting Dear's mindset going into his Code A matches today, because although he wasn't on his A game recently, he never looked THAT bad. Today was just horrible.
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Dear to IM please :D
Squirtle, Yonghwa, Trap, Hero, Ruin and Dear for PvProleague gogo!
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wtf mouz... i dont know if this is directly correlated with the failure to qualify to code S but dropping to code b definitely played a role in this... i feel that maybe mouz didnt see Dear as an asset worth keeping if he doesnt make it into Code S, seeing how they have to pay for his stay in korea and communications between both mouz hq and Dear requires translation. i hope mouz doesnt pick up players and drop them like they did with Dear and Illusion... pretty shallow if they just want results.
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On April 11 2014 17:44 GreenMash wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 17:42 krneki wrote:sk Matic "mouz (Z)Starbuck" Dejac its matic dejak! and he is from slovenia not slovakia. in the name of all the slovenian community: FUCK YOU ignorant pricks. learn your geography Hey its one letter don't be so harsh
its different country.... please pay attention
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It was already huge suprise that Dear joined Mouz. Im not so suprised seeing him leaving Mouz
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On April 11 2014 18:11 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I'm glad Dear got dropped. Mouz isn't really the best team for a Korean to go to honestly. He seemed so out of place on their roster and they never really did anything to support him or get him extra marketing. Not to mention they had 0 experience dealing with the Korean scene and a big name Korean signing in the past. It always seemed like he was just in Korea by himself and seemed even isolated from all the Koreans competing in Code S and what not. Hopefully now he can find a good team that will take care of him. I feel like something needed to change for him seeing as how his results recently have been pretty terrible.
GL to Dear and Mouz. You have to wonder if this news was affecting Dear's mindset going into his Code A matches today, because although he wasn't on his A game recently, he never looked THAT bad. Today was just horrible.
I agree that he was not a good fit - they probably wanted someone who was able to win tournaments for them the same way Liquid has TaeJa and EG has Jaedong, but there was not chance of that in his form.
However, it is not true that they had 0 experience with the Korean scene. They had top Koreans in Warcarft III, including Moon and FoV, as well as several top Chinese players for a long time. They also recruited former Quantic player SeoHyeon to act as manager for Dear.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
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On April 11 2014 18:08 frozzz wrote:
hilarious how TL doesnt even know the country codes for european countries. i can understand u dont know the exact code, but putting SK (there is no k in slovenia) and not noticing different flags from europe is indeed quite hilarious
I bet that most of europeans cant say which one is Slovakia and which one is Slovenia (from map). Also flags are so similar.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 11 2014 18:36 riyanme wrote:
RETIRE.dear in comming~
Doubtful
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On April 11 2014 18:20 krneki wrote:
its different country.... please pay attention
You have to understand their mistake. I joust looked at the map of Europe, and was searching for it but i can't find it.
I go from Italy and then there is Hungary, can't zoom that close to find it :/
So i guess it's a honest mistake.
Yohan 
For Dear i guess he was more money then worth, fuck real life and economy....
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On April 11 2014 17:18 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 17:18 Shellshock wrote:On April 11 2014 17:17 Daswollvieh wrote:
It really didn´t make much sense to begin with.
Dear should go to IM, they need another Protoss. They already have 6 protoss on their proleague roster. Ruin, Squirtle, Trap, Yonghwa, HerO, Oz Panic for PL as well
Not to forget IMironic. Duh.
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On April 11 2014 18:41 TrutY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 18:20 krneki wrote:
its different country.... please pay attention You have to understand their mistake. I joust looked at the map of Europe, and was searching for it but i can't find it. I go from Italy and then there is Hungary, can't zoom that close to find it :/ So i guess it's a honest mistake. Yohan For Dear i guess he was more money then worth, fuck real life and economy....
daj frane biljak, uozbilji se!
User was warned for this post
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Dear deserves a better team with more skilled teamates, or just as I predicted, his level will fade just like Innovation, moving to an European team. Hope for some of the primal korean families pick him up, then it'll be about time for Dear to return to the big game. I'm very sorry he did fall to Code B. Dear fighting!
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Mousesports, wtf. Teams that takes care of their players gets support, teams that don't dont.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 11 2014 18:41 Daswollvieh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 17:18 Zealously wrote:On April 11 2014 17:18 Shellshock wrote:On April 11 2014 17:17 Daswollvieh wrote:
It really didn´t make much sense to begin with.
Dear should go to IM, they need another Protoss. They already have 6 protoss on their proleague roster. Ruin, Squirtle, Trap, Yonghwa, HerO, Oz Panic for PL as well Not to forget IMironic. Duh.
I was playing along -.-
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Did they get too much flak for having a Korean player on their roster or what?
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On April 11 2014 18:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Did they get too much flak for having a Korean player on their roster or what?
Maybe his former teammates didn't like that he took all five games against TL for himself.
Edit: Ok he didn't. Silly facts messing with my truth.
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On April 11 2014 17:03 pure.Wasted wrote:
Now I can't get the image of TB dropping Innovation after last season's fall from Code A out of my head.
Good for Dear, obviously being on an overseas team didn't agree with him. You have to wonder how long he's been sitting on this information, and how much it's affected his performance (on top of the lack of a rigorous schedule).
edit: sucks about the varsity jacket though. I liked that one.
good thing inno isn't in TB's team.
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On April 11 2014 18:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 18:08 frozzz wrote:
hilarious how TL doesnt even know the country codes for european countries. i can understand u dont know the exact code, but putting SK (there is no k in slovenia) and not noticing different flags from europe is indeed quite hilarious I bet that most of europeans cant say which one is Slovakia and which one is Slovenia (from map). Also flags are so similar.
Flags are a bit confusing indeed, but I don't think we'd mix them up on map, please hopefully europeans are not as bad as americans when it comes to geography. If anything, most people should be able to tell by elimination since Slovakia was once part of Czechoslovakia which is mentioned in history books in school.
Back to topic, I'm having a hard time believing it is not related to his not going through to code S too. I can't even imagine how him going to Code S and Mouz still announcing right away his dropping would work out.
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On April 11 2014 18:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 18:08 frozzz wrote:
hilarious how TL doesnt even know the country codes for european countries. i can understand u dont know the exact code, but putting SK (there is no k in slovenia) and not noticing different flags from europe is indeed quite hilarious I bet that most of europeans cant say which one is Slovakia and which one is Slovenia (from map). Also flags are so similar.
betting on the fact that most ppl are ignorant isn't a huge risk...
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On April 11 2014 18:54 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 18:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On April 11 2014 18:08 frozzz wrote:
hilarious how TL doesnt even know the country codes for european countries. i can understand u dont know the exact code, but putting SK (there is no k in slovenia) and not noticing different flags from europe is indeed quite hilarious I bet that most of europeans cant say which one is Slovakia and which one is Slovenia (from map). Also flags are so similar. betting on the fact that most ppl are ignorant isn't a huge risk...
That´s why you watch winter sports: Education.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 11 2014 18:54 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 18:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On April 11 2014 18:08 frozzz wrote:
hilarious how TL doesnt even know the country codes for european countries. i can understand u dont know the exact code, but putting SK (there is no k in slovenia) and not noticing different flags from europe is indeed quite hilarious I bet that most of europeans cant say which one is Slovakia and which one is Slovenia (from map). Also flags are so similar. betting on the fact that most ppl are ignorant isn't a huge risk...
I'm sure I could dig up some two hundred flags that you don't know; people don't really tend to memorise these things beyond elementary school.
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백동준 @PoorDear 2 h
it already decided before Code A... its not the fact they dropped me because i lost today.
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On April 11 2014 18:56 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 18:54 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 18:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On April 11 2014 18:08 frozzz wrote:
hilarious how TL doesnt even know the country codes for european countries. i can understand u dont know the exact code, but putting SK (there is no k in slovenia) and not noticing different flags from europe is indeed quite hilarious I bet that most of europeans cant say which one is Slovakia and which one is Slovenia (from map). Also flags are so similar. betting on the fact that most ppl are ignorant isn't a huge risk... I'm sure I could dig up some two hundred flags that you don't know; people don't really tend to memorise these things beyond elementary school.
i sincerely doubt it if we're gonna talk about sovereign states. And if we talk about sovereign states in your own continent and regional organization it's definitely ignorance, especially since both Slovakia and Slovenia were part of recent (post WW2) events in history books. And you got freaking geography lessons too.
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So is this more or less the same as Fnatic and their Korean players, only on a much smaller scale?
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It's probably for the best. I would love to see Dear in Proleague somehow next round.
OTOH this feels really irresponsible from Mouz. My opinion of this team dropped considerably. ENJOY THAT LAST PLACE FINISH IN ATC MOUZ.
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Northern Ireland24931 Posts
What's the big deal, Mouz seem to be getting a ton of flak for this, if anything I'd criticise them more for picking him up.
Perhaps he was able to bridge the time difference and regularly practice with his teammates, but Dear always seemed somewhat isolated, didn't really stream or publicise the team in those kind of ways.
Better for Dear to be teamless now so that he has a bit more time to try and get picked up elsewhere, wish him luck as he's a good watch at his peak.
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On April 11 2014 19:03 dyDrawer wrote:
It's probably for the best. I would love to see Dear in Proleague somehow next round.
OTOH this feels really irresponsible from Mouz. My opinion of this team dropped considerably. ENJOY THAT LAST PLACE FINISH AT ATC MOUZ.
because they dropped him after he lost in code A? cause it's not the case, see his tweets.
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On April 11 2014 19:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
What's the big deal, Mouz seem to be getting a ton of flak for this, if anything I'd criticise them more for picking him up.
I don't get opinions like this...
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 11 2014 18:59 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 18:56 Zealously wrote:On April 11 2014 18:54 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 18:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On April 11 2014 18:08 frozzz wrote:
hilarious how TL doesnt even know the country codes for european countries. i can understand u dont know the exact code, but putting SK (there is no k in slovenia) and not noticing different flags from europe is indeed quite hilarious I bet that most of europeans cant say which one is Slovakia and which one is Slovenia (from map). Also flags are so similar. betting on the fact that most ppl are ignorant isn't a huge risk... I'm sure I could dig up some two hundred flags that you don't know; people don't really tend to memorise these things beyond elementary school. i sincerely doubt it if we're gonna talk about sovereign states. And if we talk about sovereign states in your own continent and regional organization it's definitely ignorance, especially since both Slovakia and Slovenia were part of recent (post WW2) events in history books. And you got freaking geography lessons too.
So then you know the vast majority of these flags by heart?
That said, none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand. Let's try and keep this thread about Dear and mouz instead of an honest mistake in the OP.
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On April 11 2014 19:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 19:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
What's the big deal, Mouz seem to be getting a ton of flak for this, if anything I'd criticise them more for picking him up.
I don't get opinions like this...
Mouz is/was one of the last european team with actual european players and they picked someone without including him in a wider project. Bringing dear to eu in order to play in wcs eu would've been better and cooler imo.
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On April 11 2014 19:08 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 19:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
What's the big deal, Mouz seem to be getting a ton of flak for this, if anything I'd criticise them more for picking him up.
I don't get opinions like this... Mouz is/was one of the last european team with actual european players and they picked someone without including him in a wider project. Bringing dear to eu in order to play in wcs eu would've been better and cooler imo.
Fuck them for trying to give him more opportunities to play abroad right...
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On April 11 2014 19:09 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 19:08 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 19:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
What's the big deal, Mouz seem to be getting a ton of flak for this, if anything I'd criticise them more for picking him up.
I don't get opinions like this... Mouz is/was one of the last european team with actual european players and they picked someone without including him in a wider project. Bringing dear to eu in order to play in wcs eu would've been better and cooler imo. Fuck them for trying to give him more opportunities to play abroad right...
which is basically fking is training environnement. No team mates, no team house (not sure about this one), wasting time on planes/jet-lagging. No wonder why you nobody was consitently on top while going to every foreigner tournament. (except if you count 10k$ tournament with like 3top koreans the top of sc2)
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One slovenian got his feelings hurt because of one small error and then the whole thread turns into a geography discussion lol. I'm a geography major and I still can't put every country (like 100%) on map. Also americans occasionally get a lot of flame about lack of knowledge in the field of European basic geography but I feel like many europeans also have troubles, for example putting states of america on map ^^
On topic, I really don't know what to think of mouz right now. Or maybe esports business can just be brutal sometimes and dear just got his part. I hope he will get back on track.
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If he finds a Korean team instead, this could be a blessing in disguise. His time in mouz obviously hasn't done him any good, as the results speak for themselves.
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On April 11 2014 19:15 Koivusto wrote:
I'm a geography major and I still can't put every country (like 100%) on map.
so because you are bad at what you are studying, it makes it all perfect?
its not like OP put random flag on it. he must have LP'd starbuck, to see where is he from. im sure it said slovenia. and then he probably went to look for slovenian flag and found slovakian. now that aint geography mistake, its lack of effort.
next time do the thread right, and we want have to steal the topic on hand with this crap
User was temp banned for this post.
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I give dear six months before he wins a major tourny again
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On April 11 2014 19:07 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 18:59 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 18:56 Zealously wrote:On April 11 2014 18:54 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 18:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On April 11 2014 18:08 frozzz wrote:
hilarious how TL doesnt even know the country codes for european countries. i can understand u dont know the exact code, but putting SK (there is no k in slovenia) and not noticing different flags from europe is indeed quite hilarious I bet that most of europeans cant say which one is Slovakia and which one is Slovenia (from map). Also flags are so similar. betting on the fact that most ppl are ignorant isn't a huge risk... I'm sure I could dig up some two hundred flags that you don't know; people don't really tend to memorise these things beyond elementary school. i sincerely doubt it if we're gonna talk about sovereign states. And if we talk about sovereign states in your own continent and regional organization it's definitely ignorance, especially since both Slovakia and Slovenia were part of recent (post WW2) events in history books. And you got freaking geography lessons too. So then you know the vast majority of these flags by heart?That said, none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand. Let's try and keep this thread about Dear and mouz instead of an honest mistake in the OP.
Of course, are you saying you wouldn't be able to recognize the Kingdom of Bhutan's flag immediately?
+ Show Spoiler +j/k, demanding to know the flag of a 2 million inhabitant country by heart is a bit much, no offense to the proud people of Slovenia intended
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I wonder why they really dropped Dear. In ATC he was the only player of mousesports performing.
He beat Taeja, Snute and Mana.
So, I don't think the performance was the problem. Maybe communication difficulties.
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On April 11 2014 19:27 krneki wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 19:15 Koivusto wrote:
I'm a geography major and I still can't put every country (like 100%) on map. so because you are bad at what you are studying, it makes it all perfect? its not like OP put random flag on it. he must have LP'd starbuck, to see where is he from. im sure it said slovenia. and then he probably went to look for slovenian flag and found slovakian. now that aint geography mistake, its lack of effort. next time do the thread right, and we want have to steal the topic on hand with this crap
You know what, I'm a human, I apologize if I made mistake. It's true I did not check the nationality of Starbuck but you know what ? I wanted to add flag instead of a shitty coy/paste for the thread. If you have any problem with me just PM me.
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On April 11 2014 19:15 Koivusto wrote:
One slovenian got his feelings hurt because of one small error and then the whole thread turns into a geography discussion lol. I'm a geography major and I still can't put every country (like 100%) on map. Also americans occasionally get a lot of flame about lack of knowledge in the field of European basic geography but I feel like many europeans also have troubles, for example putting states of america on map ^^
On topic, I really don't know what to think of mouz right now. Or maybe esports business can just be brutal sometimes and dear just got his part. I hope he will get back on track.
dam.. I grew up in america and I still don't think I can put states of america on map lol.
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....now I totally feel like crap for cheering for Journey (in hopes of him getting a team) in the loser's match - I'd have been totally neutral had I known both players were in need of a team T_T
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On April 11 2014 19:27 krneki wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 19:15 Koivusto wrote:
I'm a geography major and I still can't put every country (like 100%) on map. so because you are bad at what you are studying, it makes it all perfect? its not like OP put random flag on it. he must have LP'd starbuck, to see where is he from. im sure it said slovenia. and then he probably went to look for slovenian flag and found slovakian. now that aint geography mistake, its lack of effort. next time do the thread right, and we want have to steal the topic on hand with this crap
Stop derailing you entitled prick.
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On April 11 2014 19:27 krneki wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 19:15 Koivusto wrote:
I'm a geography major and I still can't put every country (like 100%) on map. so because you are bad at what you are studying, it makes it all perfect? its not like OP put random flag on it. he must have LP'd starbuck, to see where is he from. im sure it said slovenia. and then he probably went to look for slovenian flag and found slovakian. now that aint geography mistake, its lack of effort. next time do the thread right, and we want have to steal the topic on hand with this crap
Maybe you should start another thread focusing on the finer details of eastern and central European geography. Regardless, your immediate departure from this one would be greatly appreciated.
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On April 11 2014 19:15 Koivusto wrote:
One slovenian got his feelings hurt because of one small error and then the whole thread turns into a geography discussion lol. I'm a geography major and I still can't put every country (like 100%) on map. Also americans occasionally get a lot of flame about lack of knowledge in the field of European basic geography but I feel like many europeans also have troubles, for example putting states of america on map ^^
On topic, I really don't know what to think of mouz right now. Or maybe esports business can just be brutal sometimes and dear just got his part. I hope he will get back on track.
Well US states are so different thing than actual countries :D
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Hopefully Dear gets better in Korea.
Good luck. Hope to see you in Proleague.
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On April 11 2014 19:11 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 19:09 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:08 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 19:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
What's the big deal, Mouz seem to be getting a ton of flak for this, if anything I'd criticise them more for picking him up.
I don't get opinions like this... Mouz is/was one of the last european team with actual european players and they picked someone without including him in a wider project. Bringing dear to eu in order to play in wcs eu would've been better and cooler imo. Fuck them for trying to give him more opportunities to play abroad right... which is basically fking is training environnement. No team mates, no team house (not sure about this one), wasting time on planes/jet-lagging. No wonder why you nobody was consitently on top while going to every foreigner tournament. (except if you count 10k$ tournament with like 3top koreans the top of sc2)
It's not mouz's fault that SouL disbanded. He was offered a place at one of the best European orgs, and he took it. Mouz had to fire MaNa and hOpe in order to afford him, a translator, a Korean manager, and his flights to foreign tournaments. During his five month stay in mouz, he played in more foreign offline tournaments than he did throughout the rest of his career. He could have easily been drafted into a Proleague team when SouL and GSTL fell apart, but he went for what he perceived to be the path that would make him more successful with less work, but it wasn't the best decision for him it seems.
This is the reason why you have probation periods in employment, and this is why the first contracts are always short-term. Mouz did not see the benefit of paying large sums of money for Dear, and Dear himself was reaching a very low point in his career after a very successful few months due to lack of a team house, coach and practice partners, so this is the best for both.
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Poor Dear
Even though he's in Code B surely a Korean team will pick him up? He's out of form right now, but everybody knows how good he is.
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On April 11 2014 19:07 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 18:59 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 18:56 Zealously wrote:On April 11 2014 18:54 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 18:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On April 11 2014 18:08 frozzz wrote:
hilarious how TL doesnt even know the country codes for european countries. i can understand u dont know the exact code, but putting SK (there is no k in slovenia) and not noticing different flags from europe is indeed quite hilarious I bet that most of europeans cant say which one is Slovakia and which one is Slovenia (from map). Also flags are so similar. betting on the fact that most ppl are ignorant isn't a huge risk... I'm sure I could dig up some two hundred flags that you don't know; people don't really tend to memorise these things beyond elementary school. i sincerely doubt it if we're gonna talk about sovereign states. And if we talk about sovereign states in your own continent and regional organization it's definitely ignorance, especially since both Slovakia and Slovenia were part of recent (post WW2) events in history books. And you got freaking geography lessons too. So then you know the vast majority of these flags by heart?That said, none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand. Let's try and keep this thread about Dear and mouz instead of an honest mistake in the OP.
i can only speak for myself but i know pretty much all of those flags by heart. europeans are not as ignorant as americans when it comes to stuff outside their own borders. maybe a bad example since americans dont even know what goes in inside their own country. those clips of letterman or jay leno or whoever it was going out in the street asking americans stuff like who is george washington and they answer the dude who founded mcdonalds. damn most americans dont even know their god damn capital city like wtf?? is there any other country in the world where people dont know their capital city?
my favourite is
if you have someone from amsterdam what nationality is he? dude answers "uhhh Amsterdamian???"
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On April 11 2014 19:11 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 19:09 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:08 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 19:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
What's the big deal, Mouz seem to be getting a ton of flak for this, if anything I'd criticise them more for picking him up.
I don't get opinions like this... Mouz is/was one of the last european team with actual european players and they picked someone without including him in a wider project. Bringing dear to eu in order to play in wcs eu would've been better and cooler imo. Fuck them for trying to give him more opportunities to play abroad right... which is basically fking is training environnement. No team mates, no team house (not sure about this one), wasting time on planes/jet-lagging. No wonder why you nobody was consitently on top while going to every foreigner tournament. (except if you count 10k$ tournament with like 3top koreans the top of sc2)
Dear was clearly targeted by some European generals fighting in the great Foreigner-Korean war. The standard operation instructions go something like this:
Lure champion quality Korean into your team with promises of salary and tasty tasty bratwurst (or burgers if operation is run by Americans). If this isn't enough for the Korean to take the bait just mention "no more doing the dishes after proleague loss". This usually is enough to trap the target and make him flee his teamhouse hastily towards their freedom in own housing. Even better if you can get him running to the airport to live in foreign culture without proper ambitions.
After you've captured your target, expose them to bad practice partners and ridiculously lax schedule. Encourage laziness by tiring them with useless travels to puny $10k events. Have the target play online team matches in the middle of the night to further tire him out. The added lag on these events frustrates the target even more multiplying the mental damage. Usually no coaching is provided, but for extra effectiveness hire a foreign coach who doesn't speak Korean to confuse the target.
Work this routine for several months or until desired outcome is reached. When Code B status is certain or your shady finances are exposed, release the target back into the wild. Now that he is broken there's one less Korean to worry about in international tournaments.
+ Show Spoiler +I shouldn't have to point out this is a joke...
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Dear Get rest, go kespa and dominate world again plz, always cheering for you!!
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
Good for Dear, let's be honest.
Yoe FW/MVP and let's go, climb back.
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Ouch, poor Dear indeed. Seems like a really rough day for him and I hope someone picks him up. He hasn't been consistent, but he has still shown some fantastic results! I hope he isn't teamless too long.
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On April 11 2014 20:41 sagi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 19:11 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 19:09 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:08 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 19:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
What's the big deal, Mouz seem to be getting a ton of flak for this, if anything I'd criticise them more for picking him up.
I don't get opinions like this... Mouz is/was one of the last european team with actual european players and they picked someone without including him in a wider project. Bringing dear to eu in order to play in wcs eu would've been better and cooler imo. Fuck them for trying to give him more opportunities to play abroad right... which is basically fking is training environnement. No team mates, no team house (not sure about this one), wasting time on planes/jet-lagging. No wonder why you nobody was consitently on top while going to every foreigner tournament. (except if you count 10k$ tournament with like 3top koreans the top of sc2) Dear was clearly targeted by some European generals fighting in the great Foreigner-Korean war. The standard operation instructions go something like this: Lure champion quality Korean into your team with promises of salary and tasty tasty bratwurst (or burgers if operation is run by Americans). If this isn't enough for the Korean to take the bait just mention "no more doing the dishes after proleague loss". This usually is enough to trap the target and make him flee his teamhouse hastily towards their freedom in own housing. Even better if you can get him running to the airport to live in foreign culture without proper ambitions. After you've captured your target, expose them to bad practice partners and ridiculously lax schedule. Encourage laziness by tiring them with useless travels to puny $10k events. Have the target play online team matches in the middle of the night to further tire him out. The added lag on these events frustrates the target even more multiplying the mental damage. Usually no coaching is provided, but for extra effectiveness hire a foreign coach who doesn't speak Korean to confuse the target. Work this routine for several months or until desired outcome is reached. When Code B status is certain or your shady finances are exposed, release the target back into the wild. Now that he is broken there's one less Korean to worry about in international tournaments. + Show Spoiler +I shouldn't have to point out this is a joke...
So well written :D That's really good way to get foreigners win more money 
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On April 11 2014 20:41 sagi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 19:11 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 19:09 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:08 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 19:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
What's the big deal, Mouz seem to be getting a ton of flak for this, if anything I'd criticise them more for picking him up.
I don't get opinions like this... Mouz is/was one of the last european team with actual european players and they picked someone without including him in a wider project. Bringing dear to eu in order to play in wcs eu would've been better and cooler imo. Fuck them for trying to give him more opportunities to play abroad right... which is basically fking is training environnement. No team mates, no team house (not sure about this one), wasting time on planes/jet-lagging. No wonder why you nobody was consitently on top while going to every foreigner tournament. (except if you count 10k$ tournament with like 3top koreans the top of sc2) Dear was clearly targeted by some European generals fighting in the great Foreigner-Korean war. The standard operation instructions go something like this: Lure champion quality Korean into your team with promises of salary and tasty tasty bratwurst (or burgers if operation is run by Americans). If this isn't enough for the Korean to take the bait just mention "no more doing the dishes after proleague loss". This usually is enough to trap the target and make him flee his teamhouse hastily towards their freedom in own housing. Even better if you can get him running to the airport to live in foreign culture without proper ambitions. After you've captured your target, expose them to bad practice partners and ridiculously lax schedule. Encourage laziness by tiring them with useless travels to puny $10k events. Have the target play online team matches in the middle of the night to further tire him out. The added lag on these events frustrates the target even more multiplying the mental damage. Usually no coaching is provided, but for extra effectiveness hire a foreign coach who doesn't speak Korean to confuse the target. Work this routine for several months or until desired outcome is reached. When Code B status is certain or your shady finances are exposed, release the target back into the wild. Now that he is broken there's one less Korean to worry about in international tournaments. + Show Spoiler +I shouldn't have to point out this is a joke...
aha!
korean contamination procedures, code b virus
highly effective strategy
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Ok keep players like HeroMarine and other European players that haven't won anything and drop Dear. Makes sense
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
That basically seals Mouz fate in atc
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His skill lvl dropped rapidly after he joined overseas team From on top of the world just another mediocre protoss. Hope he joins Kespa team, would love to see him play in proleague.
Nothing against mouz tho, looking forward to see who will they be adding next!
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On April 11 2014 21:16 Dontkillme wrote:
Ok keep players like HeroMarine and other European players that haven't won anything and drop Dear. Makes sense
Heromarine won the last german EPS He is still going to school and isn't playing fulltime - so he is propably much cheaper than Dear is. And oh yeah, Heromarine is streaming regularly with commentary both in german aswell as english, sth that Dear didn't do that much afaik
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I don't think Mouz has any idea wtf they're doing. Doesn't seem like a team players should want to join.
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I'm surprised by the amount of sympathy and good wishes that mouz have received. Their management of Illusion and now Dear has hardly been encouraging, especially with the cutting of MaNa to get Dear in the first place.
I wish Dear all the best... hard to go from top in the world in the world's strongest team to being cut after five months in the foreign wilderness. Hope he takes a break, finds his hunger, and gets back into a stable environment to crush face.
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On April 11 2014 20:51 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 20:41 sagi wrote:On April 11 2014 19:11 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 19:09 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:08 sAsImre wrote:On April 11 2014 19:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 11 2014 19:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
What's the big deal, Mouz seem to be getting a ton of flak for this, if anything I'd criticise them more for picking him up.
I don't get opinions like this... Mouz is/was one of the last european team with actual european players and they picked someone without including him in a wider project. Bringing dear to eu in order to play in wcs eu would've been better and cooler imo. Fuck them for trying to give him more opportunities to play abroad right... which is basically fking is training environnement. No team mates, no team house (not sure about this one), wasting time on planes/jet-lagging. No wonder why you nobody was consitently on top while going to every foreigner tournament. (except if you count 10k$ tournament with like 3top koreans the top of sc2) Dear was clearly targeted by some European generals fighting in the great Foreigner-Korean war. The standard operation instructions go something like this: Lure champion quality Korean into your team with promises of salary and tasty tasty bratwurst (or burgers if operation is run by Americans). If this isn't enough for the Korean to take the bait just mention "no more doing the dishes after proleague loss". This usually is enough to trap the target and make him flee his teamhouse hastily towards their freedom in own housing. Even better if you can get him running to the airport to live in foreign culture without proper ambitions. After you've captured your target, expose them to bad practice partners and ridiculously lax schedule. Encourage laziness by tiring them with useless travels to puny $10k events. Have the target play online team matches in the middle of the night to further tire him out. The added lag on these events frustrates the target even more multiplying the mental damage. Usually no coaching is provided, but for extra effectiveness hire a foreign coach who doesn't speak Korean to confuse the target. Work this routine for several months or until desired outcome is reached. When Code B status is certain or your shady finances are exposed, release the target back into the wild. Now that he is broken there's one less Korean to worry about in international tournaments. + Show Spoiler +I shouldn't have to point out this is a joke... So well written :D That's really good way to get foreigners win more money
Thanks! Procrastinating over the writing of my bachelor's thesis fuels my creativity.
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That's the main "problem" of all EU Teams, they only focus to EU tourneys. If any eu player is toplevel class and want to attend all tourneys in all regions (as Stephano in his primetime), EU teams can't support such players.
If Vortix is going fulltime and want all tourneys around the world, I see a big problem for EU teams to spport him his way (except Alliance & Acer).
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 11 2014 22:02 Dingodile wrote:
That's the main "problem" of all EU Teams, they only focus to EU tourneys. If any eu player is toplevel class and want to attend all tourneys in all regions (as Stephano in his primetime), EU teams can't support such players.
If Vortix is going fulltime and want all tourneys around the world, I see a big problem for EU teams to spport him his way (except Alliance & Acer).
Does Alliance really do Starcraft at the moment though? I mean I know they have SortOf but Naniwa was their flagship player and they don't seem overly eager to pick someone else up.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Dear needs to get on a Pl team. Which team team needs a new toss?
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 11 2014 22:11 GumBa wrote:
Dear needs to get on a Pl team. Which team team needs a new toss?
Prime needs a new everything
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United States97276 Posts
On April 11 2014 22:11 GumBa wrote:
Dear needs to get on a Pl team. Which team team needs a new toss?
I guess the teams that need it the most would probably Samsung with no top proleague toss and then Jin air or Prime with just 1 high level proleague toss
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United States33327 Posts
On April 11 2014 22:13 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 22:11 GumBa wrote:
Dear needs to get on a Pl team. Which team team needs a new toss? Prime needs a new everything
im so excited to read your proleague preview where you outline all of this!
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Yeah Samsung or Prime could use him. He will probaly go to IM though lol
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On April 11 2014 19:34 rikapi wrote:
....now I totally feel like crap for cheering for Journey (in hopes of him getting a team) in the loser's match - I'd have been totally neutral had I known both players were in need of a team T_T
You should be ashamed, your negative juju knocked Dear out ;_;.
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On April 11 2014 17:00 Zealously wrote:
I just hope they didn't boot him because of middling performance
I don't think it's a surprise that they dropped him right as he failed to get out of his Code A group.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
A) Why offer Dear a contract for three months? Why accept that? That's ridiculous, who does that?
B) Why drop Dear after three months? What did you hope to get from him in the first place and what did he do wrong?
A clear failure on Mousesports' part here. I don't know what they expected.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Dear looked good in the Mouz jacket as well
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Just another example of a foreign team trying to buy success rather than build it themselves. This time Dear gets blown up by it. Sad day for SC2.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On April 11 2014 22:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Just another example of a foreign team trying to buy success rather than build it themselves. This time Dear gets blown up by it. Sad day for SC2.
Axiom.Dear
Confirmed
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On April 11 2014 22:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Just another example of a foreign team trying to buy success rather than build it themselves. This time Dear gets blown up by it. Sad day for SC2.
You're saying they shouldn't try to buy something to help get their name out there?
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Looking forward to who Mouz will be picking up next, glad that they are back on track.
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On April 11 2014 22:13 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 22:11 GumBa wrote:
Dear needs to get on a Pl team. Which team team needs a new toss? Prime needs a new everything
I doubt a ramen salary will cut it
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On April 11 2014 23:02 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 22:13 Zealously wrote:On April 11 2014 22:11 GumBa wrote:
Dear needs to get on a Pl team. Which team team needs a new toss? Prime needs a new everything I doubt a ramen salary will cut it
Oof harsh.
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On April 11 2014 22:58 GranDGranT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 22:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Just another example of a foreign team trying to buy success rather than build it themselves. This time Dear gets blown up by it. Sad day for SC2. You're saying they shouldn't try to buy something to help get their name out there?
Implying Mousesports needed someone to "get their name out there". What I'm saying is, don't try and buy your way to the top then drop that player like a sack of potatoes when it doesn't work out. I can't imagine what that must make Dear feel like. "Oh you bought me when I was at my peak but when I hit a slump you wanted nothing to do with me. Gee I really feel like part of the family now".
We're left only to speculate since neither party decided to give an honest statement about why this split happened.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On April 11 2014 23:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 22:58 GranDGranT wrote:On April 11 2014 22:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Just another example of a foreign team trying to buy success rather than build it themselves. This time Dear gets blown up by it. Sad day for SC2. You're saying they shouldn't try to buy something to help get their name out there? Implying Mousesports needed someone to "get their name out there". What I'm saying is, don't try and buy your way to the top then drop that player like a sack of potatoes when it doesn't work out. I can't imagine what that must make Dear feel like. "Oh you bought me when I was at my peak but when I hit a slump you wanted nothing to do with me. Gee I really feel like part of the family now". We're left only to speculate since neither party decided to give an honest statement about why this split happened.
Not everyone cares for their family like you Don Biscuit
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Strange statement from Mousesports indeed, I wonder why they want EU exclusive players now, Dear is far more accomplished than any of their current players, maybe the chemistry wasn't there I suppose.
Amusing that some people view this as a shot at Dear, implying Mousesports is really that much of a powerhouse. Sure, they have talented players, but in my opinion it's not a slap in the face at all to Dear, he can easily find a new team.
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On April 11 2014 23:12 GumBa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 23:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 11 2014 22:58 GranDGranT wrote:On April 11 2014 22:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Just another example of a foreign team trying to buy success rather than build it themselves. This time Dear gets blown up by it. Sad day for SC2. You're saying they shouldn't try to buy something to help get their name out there? Implying Mousesports needed someone to "get their name out there". What I'm saying is, don't try and buy your way to the top then drop that player like a sack of potatoes when it doesn't work out. I can't imagine what that must make Dear feel like. "Oh you bought me when I was at my peak but when I hit a slump you wanted nothing to do with me. Gee I really feel like part of the family now". We're left only to speculate since neither party decided to give an honest statement about why this split happened. Not everyone cares for their family like you Don Biscuit
Which is exactly why we started the team in the first place
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On April 11 2014 23:20 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 23:12 GumBa wrote:On April 11 2014 23:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 11 2014 22:58 GranDGranT wrote:On April 11 2014 22:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Just another example of a foreign team trying to buy success rather than build it themselves. This time Dear gets blown up by it. Sad day for SC2. You're saying they shouldn't try to buy something to help get their name out there? Implying Mousesports needed someone to "get their name out there". What I'm saying is, don't try and buy your way to the top then drop that player like a sack of potatoes when it doesn't work out. I can't imagine what that must make Dear feel like. "Oh you bought me when I was at my peak but when I hit a slump you wanted nothing to do with me. Gee I really feel like part of the family now". We're left only to speculate since neither party decided to give an honest statement about why this split happened. Not everyone cares for their family like you Don Biscuit Which is exactly why we started the team in the first place
Amd thats why I support axiom and you in all ventures
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Well that was quick...
Dear's probably better off on a SK team anyway.
SKT_Dear please
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On April 11 2014 23:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Well that was quick... Dear's probably better off on a SK team anyway. SKT_Dear please
Nah they have enough toss
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Nice decision, kespa's players are not made for foreign team.
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On April 11 2014 23:24 GumBa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 23:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Well that was quick... Dear's probably better off on a SK team anyway. SKT_Dear please Nah they have enough toss
Oh I didn't mean recruit him to balance out SKT's lineup race-wise; I meant SKT should recruit Dear because I like Dear and I like SKT, and that should be the real reason why teams hire and let go players- because it makes me happy.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On April 11 2014 23:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 23:24 GumBa wrote:On April 11 2014 23:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Well that was quick... Dear's probably better off on a SK team anyway. SKT_Dear please Nah they have enough toss Oh I didn't mean recruit him to balance out SKT's lineup race-wise; I meant SKT should recruit Dear because I like Dear and I like SKT, and that should be the real reason why teams hire and let go players- because it makes me happy.
Yeah but hed never play :O and that would make you sad.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 11 2014 23:27 damoonwolf wrote:
Nice decision, kespa's players are not made for foreign team.
Jaedong's fat stacks of money disagree with you
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Dear should collect more money maybe EG.Dear, Root.Dear or Millenium
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On April 11 2014 23:31 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 23:27 damoonwolf wrote:
Nice decision, kespa's players are not made for foreign team. Jaedong's fat stacks of money disagree with you
For money foreign team are really good, but for level...
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 11 2014 23:36 damoonwolf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 23:31 Zealously wrote:On April 11 2014 23:27 damoonwolf wrote:
Nice decision, kespa's players are not made for foreign team. Jaedong's fat stacks of money disagree with you For money foreign team are really good, but for level...
My answer remains the same; Jaedong disagrees with you. Sure, playing on a foreign team requires a lot of self-discipline, but JD has proven that it is possible to improve even outside the KeSPA practise regimen.
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On April 11 2014 23:35 TheAnarchy wrote:
Dear should collect more money maybe EG.Dear, Root.Dear or Millenium
There is money in the ROOT stand?
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Mouz seems like a cold and harsh place.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On April 11 2014 23:44 stuchiu wrote:
Mouz seems like a cold and harsh place.
Hey did you see SK 10pool evil himself and win?
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 11 2014 23:48 GumBa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 23:44 stuchiu wrote:
Mouz seems like a cold and harsh place. Hey did you see SK 10pool evil himself and win?
No, but I'm going to now!
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Go lIquid, swoop in and save this future GSL winner's progaming career :D
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On April 11 2014 23:49 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 23:48 GumBa wrote:On April 11 2014 23:44 stuchiu wrote:
Mouz seems like a cold and harsh place. Hey did you see SK 10pool evil himself and win? No, but I'm going to now!
It was glorious
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On April 11 2014 23:27 damoonwolf wrote:
Nice decision, kespa's players are not made for foreign team.
It can work, but the team needs to either be serious enough to give the Kespa player/s an environment where he/they can get adequate practice and maintain a high level of performance(Acer/Axiom), or there needs to be a mutual understanding that the player is there for marketing and will not really be expected to do more than stream whilst wearing a shirt with the team logo(EG).
Trying to boost a mediocre team by injecting it with Korean kespa hormones is like the worst of both worlds.
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On April 11 2014 23:39 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 23:36 damoonwolf wrote:On April 11 2014 23:31 Zealously wrote:On April 11 2014 23:27 damoonwolf wrote:
Nice decision, kespa's players are not made for foreign team. Jaedong's fat stacks of money disagree with you For money foreign team are really good, but for level... My answer remains the same; Jaedong disagrees with you. Sure, playing on a foreign team requires a lot of self-discipline, but JD has proven that it is possible to improve even outside the KeSPA practise regimen.
Of course possible. We have Sir Polt of Terran.
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Man, this sucks for Dear.
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omg poor Dear I hope he finds a new team soon. If he still wants to join a foreign team (which I think so, because of his tweets), I hope he has someone to give him some good advise first.
On the other hand Mouz statement annoyed me. It's literally saying "Dear is to no use for us" which is not bad per se, but taking no responsibility on the failure, not acknowledge it as a failure, and offering no apologize to the other part... As someone previously said, Mouz seems to be a damn cold place.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Acer Dear would be sweet. They also look after their players alot and he knows inno from STX
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Woah this is pretty surprising, though his results have been lacking heavily since joining Mouz. That's too bad.
Curious to see who they pick up to fill the Korean void.
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
On April 12 2014 00:55 GumBa wrote:
Acer Dear would be sweet. They also look after their players alot and he knows inno from STX
Acer with a protoss? I'd like to live long enough to see that day
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For me, it reads like they wanted Dear to move over to Europe (at least in the long run). But since Dear still was not ready to move after 4 month, they called the whole thing off.
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On April 12 2014 00:55 GumBa wrote:
Acer Dear would be sweet. They also look after their players alot and he knows inno from STX
-Dear joins Acer
-Dear chosen to be starter vs Mouz in ATC
-Dear All-kills Mouz
How glorious it would be...
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United States23455 Posts
Ouch....
This hurts Mouz's stock in ATC for sure.
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DearPrime!!!!!! With the addition of him and leenock they turn into a good team in proleague! GO GO Prime Fighting!!!
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TLADT24920 Posts
poor dear. Getting dropped right after his code A matches, rough :/ Hope he manages to find a team soon!
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On April 12 2014 01:00 Lorning wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 00:55 GumBa wrote:
Acer Dear would be sweet. They also look after their players alot and he knows inno from STX Acer with a protoss? I'd like to live long enough to see that day
I think the concern is rather if Dear would live to actually play, considering a certain Canadian on the team.
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Note to progamers: If you are not European, you are not going to last on Mouz
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
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Wow what terrible timing for this announcement T.T
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I have a pretty strong opinion about this.......
1) First, mouz drops their international players saying "we are a strong European team". Then they lose and lose and finally pick up a Korean. Then they say "well, only because we are a strong European team, we'll part with our international players again".
mouz needs to man up and stick to something. Either never pick up another non-European again, or stop being a shitty team to your players. The recurrence of this nonsense is really getting on my nerves.
2) This is terrible for Dear's early life international experience. He joined a foreign team to be able to travel and enjoy new benefits, but his gateway has disappointingly abandoned him due to selfish reasons.
3) If Dear has the shear will to be the best SC2 player, he can now focus on Korea and get himself back into shape. mouz had nothing to offer him but a chance to travel more. If he wants, he can use this chance to travel less but be a much better player than he was on mouz.
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Can someone tell me which players on eu team were able to attend tourneys outside eu in the last 3 years? Pretty much only Stephano & Millenium.
Socke & MLG etc doesnt count because tournament paid travel&flights stuff.
Do you see the "problem" now with eu teams? Sponsors of eu teams want this: "only eu, nothing else".
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Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality.
mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit.
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This is the big leagues - you dont get time to adjust. In real sports they send you back to the d-league. Pros are paid to win and win NOW.
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On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality.
2nd place ASUS ROG, Top 8 IEM WC after going through the open bracket.
"Absolutely terrible".
Yeah ok buddy.
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This kind of stuff gives me way more respect for other Korean pros who didn't abandon their teams as soon as they won a tournament or two in order to get cash in on a fat payday from a foreign team. If you want to play that game you better back it up.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 12 2014 03:11 johnbongham wrote:
This is the big leagues - you dont get time to adjust. In real sports they send you back to the d-league. Pros are paid to win and win NOW.
On April 12 2014 03:13 johnbongham wrote:
This kind of stuff gives me way more respect for other Korean pros who didn't abandon their teams as soon as they won a tournament or two in order to get cash in on a fat payday from a foreign team. If you want to play that game you better back it up.
You're not very well-informed, are you?
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I really hope he can recover from these bad times and come back and show mouz they made a terrible mistake dropping him.
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On April 12 2014 03:19 Littlebert wrote:
I really hope he can recover from these bad times and come back and show mouz they made a terrible mistake dropping him.
maybe he can join EG or some other team in ATC, and then All Kill Mousesports?....
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Well I'm sure he'd love that:D But just whatever it take to get himself back to winning ways and happy with a team wether that be in Europe, Korea or anywhere
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On April 12 2014 03:13 johnbongham wrote:
This kind of stuff gives me way more respect for other Korean pros who didn't abandon their teams as soon as they won a tournament or two in order to get cash in on a fat payday from a foreign team. If you want to play that game you better back it up.
Yeah his team kind of died after winning Proleague
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Well no point in keeping him since he's not Code S
Did he even win a GSL ??
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 12 2014 04:07 lantz wrote:
Well no point in keeping him since he's not Code S
Did he even win a GSL ??
Yes
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On April 12 2014 04:07 lantz wrote:
Well no point in keeping him since he's not Code S
Did he even win a GSL ??
GSL AND the World Championship Series right afterwards
compare those accomplishments to other players...yea
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On April 12 2014 02:47 Shinta) wrote:
I have a pretty strong opinion about this.......
1) First, mouz drops their international players saying "we are a strong European team". Then they lose and lose and finally pick up a Korean. Then they say "well, only because we are a strong European team, we'll part with our international players again".
mouz needs to man up and stick to something. Either never pick up another non-European again, or stop being a shitty team to your players. The recurrence of this nonsense is really getting on my nerves.
2) This is terrible for Dear's early life international experience. He joined a foreign team to be able to travel and enjoy new benefits, but his gateway has disappointingly abandoned him due to selfish reasons.
3) If Dear has the shear will to be the best SC2 player, he can now focus on Korea and get himself back into shape. mouz had nothing to offer him but a chance to travel more. If he wants, he can use this chance to travel less but be a much better player than he was on mouz.
what do you mean by 'dropping their international players'? They're only 'international' player (by which I guess you mean non-European) was Illusion, and he definitely was no game-changer for mouz, he was simply one of the 'talents'. Sure, they needed a Korean ace if they wanted to compete with Acer and Liquid, but they didn't 'lose and lose', even without Koreans it was EXTREMELY close (3 flippin map wins) as to who would make ATC Season 2 playoffs between Liquid, Axiom and Mouz. There was no recurrence.
It is very normal for contracts to be short-term on the first relationship between an employer and an employee, and if it isn't short term, there's usually a probation period in the contract. Many countries have probation periods in the law itself, where the employer can terminate the employee's contract without getting sued for wrongful termination.
There's nothing stopping Dear from complaining about his experience in mouz; he isn't, he's actually grateful for the opportunities (including him staying at their HQ in Germany for a time), so why are you doing it for him?
If mouz is a shitty team to their players, then what is a good team? Quantic? LYGF? Eclypsia? >.>
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that does explain his play in his code A group.
man, I hope he find a team to display his true potential but a scary time to be a free agent especially a korean player.
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On April 12 2014 04:09 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 04:07 lantz wrote:
Well no point in keeping him since he's not Code S
Did he even win a GSL ?? Yes
Facepalm. People forget so fast T.T
On a different note:
This guys is a champion, top-tier player who is down on his luck. Whoever picks him up is going to be picking up the real deal. What Mouz did sucks, but Dear will come through. Dear Hwaiting
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With this move Mousesports certainly doesn't respect the players they sign, and lack the understanding to foster a conducive environment for training
First with Illusion's abrupt departure, with Illusion badmouthing Mousesports for not keeping certain promises.
And now Dear obviously had a dispiriting experience with Mouz
They should learn from Liquid, EG, mYi, Acer, in how to invest properly in Korean stars, or simply not shoot for the stars in signing the player considered to be the best in the world and thinking he will simply continue to be in top shape.
Sad for Dear. I think the expectations/pressure too high, and the freedom too much for Dear. Hope he finds his passion again with a better team
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On April 12 2014 03:11 johnbongham wrote:
This is the big leagues - you dont get time to adjust. In real sports they send you back to the d-league. Pros are paid to win and win NOW.
You would make a terrible team manager. Hey guess what, SC2 is inconsistent. The vast majority of players cannot maintain form over an extended period of time. GSL champions frequently slump immediately afterwards and it takes a while to return to form. If all you do is buy players at their peak, not only do you end up with a shitty expensive team but you look like a moron when you are suddenly surprised that they don't perform as well as you expected afterwards.
Players have ups and downs. It's your duty as a team manager to help them get out of their slumps and provide the support structure needed to return to form.
Or you could be a piece of shit and drop your players after 3 months because you're not rolling in tournament winnings and sponsorship dollars. Oh no, you couldn't buy your way to the top, what a tragedy. Forgive me if I shed no tears for any organization that does that.
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Jin Air would be superawesome... plz plz esports gods let $o$ and Dear play in the same team.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 12 2014 06:35 Skynx wrote:
Jin Air would be superawesome... plz plz esports gods let $o$ and Dear play in the same team.
I guess, almost everyone would be satisfied if it's not IM/MVP/YoeFW :D
But JinAir.Dear would be sick, considering that they're close with sOs.
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He will find a new team with no problem for sure, go Dear !
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Seems like the change in management was part of why it didn't last longer.
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thanks so much for posting this! also, how can anyone believe that it was decided BEFORE he dropped to code B? the guy was wearing their team jacket during the matches, would he have really done so if he knew he had been dropped from the team prior to his games? makes no sense to think that, seems like mouz scummed him pretty hard
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On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit.
I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped.
Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer.
TB said it well:
On April 12 2014 05:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 03:11 johnbongham wrote:
This is the big leagues - you dont get time to adjust. In real sports they send you back to the d-league. Pros are paid to win and win NOW. You would make a terrible team manager. Hey guess what, SC2 is inconsistent. The vast majority of players cannot maintain form over an extended period of time. GSL champions frequently slump immediately afterwards and it takes a while to return to form. If all you do is buy players at their peak, not only do you end up with a shitty expensive team but you look like a moron when you are suddenly surprised that they don't perform as well as you expected afterwards. Players have ups and downs. It's your duty as a team manager to help them get out of their slumps and provide the support structure needed to return to form. Or you could be a piece of shit and drop your players after 3 months because you're not rolling in tournament winnings and sponsorship dollars. Oh no, you couldn't buy your way to the top, what a tragedy. Forgive me if I shed no tears for any organization that does that.
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On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer.
Absolute bollocks.
So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick.
You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing.
I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results.
I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer.
He was in Ro16 of Code S, barely not going into Ro8 from hardest group since famous Group B year ago and was 2nd on ASUS ROG and even in Katowice, he wasn't eliminated in first round as HyuN or Liquid' HerO for example.
Hard to say that it's not performing, but if mouz expected that Dear will roll like he did in 2013 Fall whole 2014, sorry, mouz, you're dumb then.
On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did.
Sick <3
If Impact wins Global Championship it will be even more sick.
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If the actual reason for firing Dear is what I think it is, terminating his contract due to under performance(or a 3 month contract that ended March 19th and wasn't renewed) then I've lost all respect for the mouz management in charge of these decisions. The way they treated this is just absolutely awful and I feel bad for Dear, job security in sc2 is already garbage but this is just beyond anything I've ever seen before in terms of bullshit.
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On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did.
I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well.
Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures.
Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances.
Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one.
They threw Mana who was face of mouz for years away just to pick up Dear.
Now they don't have Mana and Dear, but Starbuck, Hasuobs and Vortix are way better players for marketing than Mana and Dear for sure.
It makes no sense to dump guy who was considered as new mouz main player after 3 months of "slump" which is > all mouz players achievements at same time in summary
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I'd think, given there's room on the roster, that Acer (they seem solid on management of their Koreans, even through slumps) or Axiom (any chance, TB?) would be good places for him, especially if he wants to keep entering tournaments outside of Korea.
(I'm basically in agreement with most of yalls for teams on the Korean front!)
Though I also have this wishful thinking that CM Storm wants to invest in a Protoss to have a player from all 3 races... XD
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On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one.
Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs.
And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations.
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On April 12 2014 11:18 rikapi wrote:
I'd think, given there's room on the roster, that Acer (they seem solid on management of their Koreans, even through slumps) or Axiom (any chance, TB?) would be good places for him, especially if he wants to keep entering tournaments outside of Korea.
(I'm basically in agreement with most of yalls for teams on the Korean front!)
Though I also have this wishful thinking that CM Storm wants to invest in a Protoss to have a player from all 3 races... XD
We can't afford what someone of that calibre should be paid, plus frankly we don't need anymore players with GSTL being dead and buried. Another Protoss wouldn't benefit the team house, maybe another zerg but that'd be it at most.
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If Vortix, Hasuobs, and the rest of the team were underperforming, TRUST ME Dear would NOT have been cut.
However, Vortix (just showed he's as good as any korean) and Hasuobs definitely overperforming and doing awesome in tournaments, so mouz decides they don't need an expensive Korean that is only a bit better than their EU players.
Mouz was not doing so well not so long ago... so they thought let's fix our team and take a risk with a korean...
All this shows is Mouz is a complete DICK of a team and has buyer's remorse. Too bad this isn't just a blip in someone's bank account, but hurts a real person's life.
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On April 12 2014 11:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 11:18 rikapi wrote:
I'd think, given there's room on the roster, that Acer (they seem solid on management of their Koreans, even through slumps) or Axiom (any chance, TB?) would be good places for him, especially if he wants to keep entering tournaments outside of Korea.
(I'm basically in agreement with most of yalls for teams on the Korean front!)
Though I also have this wishful thinking that CM Storm wants to invest in a Protoss to have a player from all 3 races... XD We can't afford what someone of that calibre should be paid, plus frankly we don't need anymore players with GSTL being dead and buried. Another Protoss wouldn't benefit the team house, maybe another zerg but that'd be it at most.
I'll just drop the Kangho hint one more time and walk away...No but seriously the way you explained your rationale with signing/keeping players is just so perfect. All those players are lucky to be on a team like Axiom
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TLADT24920 Posts
On April 12 2014 11:37 lantz wrote:
If Vortix, Hasuobs, and the rest of the team were underperforming, TRUST ME Dear would NOT have been cut.
However, Vortix (just showed he's as good as any korean) and Hasuobs definitely overperforming and doing awesome in tournaments, so mouz decides they don't need an expensive Korean that is only a bit better than their EU players.
Mouz was not doing so well not so long ago... so they thought let's fix our team and take a risk with a korean...
All this shows is Mouz is a complete DICK of a team and has buyer's remorse. Too bad this isn't just a blip in someone's bank account, but hurts a real person's life.
what? Dear a bit better? lol. Check out Vortix's recent matches then if you haven't. Only part I agree with is the underlined parts.
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Well, this looks more and more like a PR disaster for mousesports.
I wonder if this firing wasn't just a mistake game-wise, but a mistake that is affecting the whole brand of mousesports negatively.
At least for me and probably for many other people, mousesports lost lots of reputation with this move.
I couldn't agree more with all said above. SC2 is an inconsistant game and players need time and trust to bring good results.
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On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations.
To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it.
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On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it.
He had been underperforming for an insanely long time, probably more than triple the amount of time that Dear was on Mouz. Eventually every team has to let players go and I'm sure Puma knew well ahead of time what was coming. Dear on the other hand was signed when he was possibly a top 5 player in the world, and because he hasn't retained it for 3 months he's gone? Those two scenarios aren't really comparable.
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Hmm terribad move by Mouz, makes them look really bad.
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On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it.
Actually EG made an offer to Puma, but he wanted more money and thought he could get it else where, but didn't. But his time on EG as a whole cannot be looked at as under performing. Until Jaedong, he gave them their best SC2 results. And he's actually won bigger tournaments than JD.
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On April 12 2014 12:31 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Actually EG made an offer to Puma, but he wanted more money and thought he could get it else where, but didn't. But his time on EG as a whole cannot be looked at as under performing. Until Jaedong, he gave them their best SC2 results. And he's actually won bigger tournaments than JD.
I love Puma, but you don't ever give a contract for previous achievements. At the time, Puma had none in a LONG time and EG probably didn't think he would be able to bring good value to the team.
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This makes no sense. A great player joins your team. Player gets worse. Team drops player.
The sweetest ending to this story if he rejoins a KeSPa team and goes back to being stellar.
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On April 12 2014 11:57 skorched wrote:
Hmm terribad move by Mouz, makes them look really bad.
Agree, name a single Mouz player that has accomplished what Dear has in sc2. Dropping a player just because they are Korean seems so terrible IMO.
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Canada16217 Posts
Teams in korea that need a Protoss currently: StarTale, Prime, Samsung Galaxy, and maybe KT.
Would be fine with seeing Dear play on any of those teams in Proleague.
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On April 12 2014 12:44 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 12:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Actually EG made an offer to Puma, but he wanted more money and thought he could get it else where, but didn't. But his time on EG as a whole cannot be looked at as under performing. Until Jaedong, he gave them their best SC2 results. And he's actually won bigger tournaments than JD. I love Puma, but you don't ever give a contract for previous achievements. At the time, Puma had none in a LONG time and EG probably didn't think he would be able to bring good value to the team.
I didn't say they did give him a contract for previous achievements. But they did offer him a contract, he declined it, which is how he left EG. No doubt it was less money than what they had been paying him previously as he had fallen off.
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This is a load of crap. What if I ran a software shop and I hire an Indian guy, convince him to turn down other really good opportunities back in India, then four months later fire him because, well, I only work with Angolans. It's almost antisocial.
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On April 12 2014 13:02 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Teams in korea that need a Protoss currently: StarTale, Prime, Samsung Galaxy, and maybe KT.
Would be fine with seeing Dear play on any of those teams in Proleague.
Dear to Samsung would be really cool. I feel like Samsung has needed a new big protoss heavy hitter after JangBi left and imo Dear would be perfect for that job.
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We all don't know the real reason.
But I want to present a different kind of scenario:
So imagine you are Dear at the end of November 2013. You started playing competitively more than 3 years ago. All this time you played your heart out with nothing to show. Your team is in dire straits, practically dead, you probably don't get paid a salary. And then at last you have your big breakthrough, a miracle run to the top.
Is is so hard to imagine, that you want to finally get 'paid out'?
Go with the highest bidder. Who cares if the contract is only for 4 month? Earning real money was always the goal.
Long term career planing in SC2? Dream on. Just harvest the hay while the sun still shines...
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TLADT24920 Posts
On April 12 2014 14:08 lord_nibbler wrote:
We all don't know the real reason.
But I want to present a different kind of scenario:
So imagine you are Dear at the end of November 2013. You started playing competitively more than 3 years ago. All this time you played your heart out with nothing to show. Your team is in dire straits, practically dead, you probably don't get paid a salary. And then at last you have your big breakthrough, a miracle run to the top.
Is is so hard to imagine, that you want to finally get 'paid out'?
Go with the highest bidder. Who cares if the contract is only for 4 month? Earning real money was always the goal.
Long term career planing in SC2? Dream on. Just harvest the hay while the sun still shines...
This pretty much destroys your theory lol:
more specifically, the last bit. The guy who helped get him signed mentions it wasn't supposed to end in April. I doubt Dear would've also joined the team so that it ends in 4 months time(or someone said 3 months earlier, can't remember timeframe).
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And to think Mouz used to be one of my favorite european teams. This really changes everything.
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I really wish Mouz had stuck with Dear for at least a little while longer.
SC2 is an inconsistent game, and if Dear had a bit more time, he would've produced some good results no doubt :/
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Mouz just became a lot less sympathetic to me after those wake tweets.
Hope Dear goes to a Kespa team or Acer
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Deer took a risk going with Mouz, but look at the alternative. Competition for spots on Korean teams is more cutthroat than ever. I don't think he'll be the last Korean to aim for an European team. That said, there are maybe 3 or 4 players in the world which can maintain their world class skill on foreign teams... JD, Innovation, Polt.
I doubt this was skill related. Deer was probably costing them a lot of money which they want to spend elsewhere.
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Dear to go to KTRolster! GLHF
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On April 12 2014 04:07 lantz wrote:
Well no point in keeping him since he's not Code S
Did he even win a GSL ??
On April 12 2014 03:13 johnbongham wrote:
This kind of stuff gives me way more respect for other Korean pros who didn't abandon their teams as soon as they won a tournament or two in order to get cash in on a fat payday from a foreign team. If you want to play that game you better back it up.
you and johnbongham are complete morons...
not updated to events and simple facts
are you really a starcraft fan/player?
dear.you can still make it. claw your way up.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 12 2014 13:02 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Teams in korea that need a Protoss currently: StarTale, Prime, Samsung Galaxy, and maybe KT.
Would be fine with seeing Dear play on any of those teams in Proleague.
It's like 4 months back :D
Inb4 Dear joins Planetkey Dynamics with Oz and everyone will be like - "Wat".
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On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it.
Shouldn't EG release most, if not all of their current SC2 squad then?
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On April 12 2014 21:56 BarneyNapalm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Shouldn't EG release most, if not all of their current SC2 squad then?
While everyone except Jaedong is performing rather poorly (and maybe Huk?), the rest of the crew don't really need to so long as they market EG's sponsors well. Incontrol, for instance, has enough character and marketing skills that he is probably one of EG's best players. Of course, Jaedong is good too. Most Koreans do not really do anything to sell their sponsors like a foreigner does (though there are Acer ads of Innovation/MMA holding Acer laptops)
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On April 12 2014 21:51 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 13:02 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Teams in korea that need a Protoss currently: StarTale, Prime, Samsung Galaxy, and maybe KT.
Would be fine with seeing Dear play on any of those teams in Proleague. It's like 4 months back :D Inb4 Dear joins Planetkey Dynamics with Oz and everyone will be like - "Wat".
Sure why not. Planetkey Dynamics is nothing but a marketing vehicle for selling grey market cd key. They along with many other such sites have been aggressively pushing out marketing to gamers lately through twitch streamers and progamers, even Khaldor is advertising for a cd key site. I've had offers from 5 separate companies in the last week who do it. They have plenty of money and want to spend it.
Unfortunately these companies also operate questionable business practices. One of the biggest, g2play was recently found selling Humble Bundle keys, they were effectively engaging in piracy having acquired large numbers of those keys for 1 cent each and then trying to sell them for much more. CD key sites are shady, but they do turn a big profit.
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United States23455 Posts
On April 12 2014 22:11 Blargh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 21:56 BarneyNapalm wrote:On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Shouldn't EG release most, if not all of their current SC2 squad then? While everyone except Jaedong is performing rather poorly (and maybe Huk?), the rest of the crew don't really need to so long as they market EG's sponsors well. Incontrol, for instance, has enough character and marketing skills that he is probably one of EG's best players. Of course, Jaedong is good too. Most Koreans do not really do anything to sell their sponsors like a foreigner does (though there are Acer ads of Innovation/MMA holding Acer laptops)
Jaedong is performing rather poorly as well. That being said, what you mentioned about marketing is true.
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United States97276 Posts
Maybe Alliance will pick up Dear to replace Naniwa
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 12 2014 22:15 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 21:51 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On April 12 2014 13:02 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Teams in korea that need a Protoss currently: StarTale, Prime, Samsung Galaxy, and maybe KT.
Would be fine with seeing Dear play on any of those teams in Proleague. It's like 4 months back :D Inb4 Dear joins Planetkey Dynamics with Oz and everyone will be like - "Wat". Sure why not. Planetkey Dynamics is nothing but a marketing vehicle for selling grey market cd key. They along with many other such sites have been aggressively pushing out marketing to gamers lately through twitch streamers and progamers, even Khaldor is advertising for a cd key site. I've had offers from 5 separate companies in the last week who do it. They have plenty of money and want to spend it. Unfortunately these companies also operate questionable business practices. One of the biggest, g2play was recently found selling Humble Bundle keys, they were effectively engaging in piracy having acquired large numbers of those keys for 1 cent each and then trying to sell them for much more. CD key sites are shady, but they do turn a big profit.
I just want him to have freedom and conditions to train hard, seems like PD in that case gave Oz ability to travel + Proleague practice, so it won't be worst choice for Dear.
Big profit.
On April 12 2014 22:19 Shellshock wrote:
Maybe Alliance will pick up Dear to replace Naniwa
And re-ignite NaNiwa as well, i won't be surprised if Alliance picks him back as they said in their statement if he's ready to comeback.
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On April 12 2014 22:18 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 22:11 Blargh wrote:On April 12 2014 21:56 BarneyNapalm wrote:On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2014 03:05 johnbongham wrote:
Screw blaming the team. Dear probably wanted a ridiculous salary which mous decided was worth it for a top level player. The player than proceeded to be absolutely terrible and not at all worth the money he was being paid compared to the domestic EU team members > he gets dropped.
Shoulda coulda woulda kept his top-form. Being a pro ain't easy. You want a payday? Show some results - especially if you don't stream/show any personality. mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Shouldn't EG release most, if not all of their current SC2 squad then? While everyone except Jaedong is performing rather poorly (and maybe Huk?), the rest of the crew don't really need to so long as they market EG's sponsors well. Incontrol, for instance, has enough character and marketing skills that he is probably one of EG's best players. Of course, Jaedong is good too. Most Koreans do not really do anything to sell their sponsors like a foreigner does (though there are Acer ads of Innovation/MMA holding Acer laptops) Jaedong is performing rather poorly as well. That being said, what you mentioned about marketing is true.
Jaedong performing poorly rofl. Jaedong and poorly. Two words which should never be in the same sentence. I wonder what was happening last night when he was smashing nerds left and right at the top of the KR ladder.
There is a huge luck factor in sc2. Just because he's not winning every tournament he's not performing badly.
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On April 12 2014 22:55 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 22:18 Darkhorse wrote:On April 12 2014 22:11 Blargh wrote:On April 12 2014 21:56 BarneyNapalm wrote:On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:
[quote]
mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Shouldn't EG release most, if not all of their current SC2 squad then? While everyone except Jaedong is performing rather poorly (and maybe Huk?), the rest of the crew don't really need to so long as they market EG's sponsors well. Incontrol, for instance, has enough character and marketing skills that he is probably one of EG's best players. Of course, Jaedong is good too. Most Koreans do not really do anything to sell their sponsors like a foreigner does (though there are Acer ads of Innovation/MMA holding Acer laptops) Jaedong is performing rather poorly as well. That being said, what you mentioned about marketing is true. Jaedong performing poorly rofl. Jaedong and poorly. Two words which should never be in the same sentence. I wonder what was happening last night when he was smashing nerds left and right at the top of the KR ladder. There is a huge luck factor in sc2. Just because he's not winning every tournament he's not performing badly.
LADDER is not equal to tournament. Innovation was rank 3-7 KR GM for about a year now but just got into code s after 2 seasons, so is patience rank 6-10 but we rarely get to see him past ro16 in almost any tournament. the ladder Jaedong and tournament jaedong are literally polar opposites.
+ Show Spoiler +so far in 2014: ro4 cologne
can't get past open bracket for katowice
can't get past Ro32 AM
lost to cannons
lost to pylons
lost to more pylons
made swarmhosts
|
On April 12 2014 22:55 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 22:18 Darkhorse wrote:On April 12 2014 22:11 Blargh wrote:On April 12 2014 21:56 BarneyNapalm wrote:On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 03:09 Zealously wrote:
[quote]
mouz went all-in on Dear, hiring a coach and a translator to accomodate him and dropping Mana. Booting him after only a few months is stupid and the blame lies with mouz, not Dear. If you're willing to go through all that to get a big name player like Dear, you better be prepared to let him adjust. mouz wasn't prepared to and now they have not only lost their by far best player, their reputation took another hit. I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped. Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Shouldn't EG release most, if not all of their current SC2 squad then? While everyone except Jaedong is performing rather poorly (and maybe Huk?), the rest of the crew don't really need to so long as they market EG's sponsors well. Incontrol, for instance, has enough character and marketing skills that he is probably one of EG's best players. Of course, Jaedong is good too. Most Koreans do not really do anything to sell their sponsors like a foreigner does (though there are Acer ads of Innovation/MMA holding Acer laptops) Jaedong is performing rather poorly as well. That being said, what you mentioned about marketing is true. Jaedong performing poorly rofl. Jaedong and poorly. Two words which should never be in the same sentence. I wonder what was happening last night when he was smashing nerds left and right at the top of the KR ladder. There is a huge luck factor in sc2. Just because he's not winning every tournament he's not performing badly.
he didnt win any tournament except that asus something and house something aka two of 2000 random foreign tourneys, his 2014 has been a trainwreck and he didnt even compete in Korea, he lost to Has I mean who the hell is has? Does that read 'poorly' to you?
meanwhile two ex-EGs are doing awesome lol
|
On April 12 2014 23:04 Xinzoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 22:55 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 12 2014 22:18 Darkhorse wrote:On April 12 2014 22:11 Blargh wrote:On April 12 2014 21:56 BarneyNapalm wrote:On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:
[quote]
I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped.
Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Shouldn't EG release most, if not all of their current SC2 squad then? While everyone except Jaedong is performing rather poorly (and maybe Huk?), the rest of the crew don't really need to so long as they market EG's sponsors well. Incontrol, for instance, has enough character and marketing skills that he is probably one of EG's best players. Of course, Jaedong is good too. Most Koreans do not really do anything to sell their sponsors like a foreigner does (though there are Acer ads of Innovation/MMA holding Acer laptops) Jaedong is performing rather poorly as well. That being said, what you mentioned about marketing is true. Jaedong performing poorly rofl. Jaedong and poorly. Two words which should never be in the same sentence. I wonder what was happening last night when he was smashing nerds left and right at the top of the KR ladder. There is a huge luck factor in sc2. Just because he's not winning every tournament he's not performing badly. LADDER is not equal to tournament. Innovation was rank 3-7 KR GM for about a year now but just got into code s after 2 seasons, so is patience rank 6-10 but we rarely get to see him past ro16 in almost any tournament. the ladder Jaedong and tournament jaedong are literally polar opposites. + Show Spoiler +so far in 2014: ro4 cologne
can't get past open bracket for katowice
can't get past Ro32 AM
lost to cannons
lost to pylons
lost to more pylons
made swarmhosts
I don't think they are polar opposites. The difference is on ladder if you lose to a few cheeses, you can recover the points. It's a best of whatever you want.
The whole idea that JD is choking in these tournaments getting second place I think is ridiculous. I mean, fine, show me where he is making huge mistakes and throwing it away. He's playing his best games and it just so happens you don't always win. That's the nature of the beast.
On April 12 2014 23:11 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 22:55 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 12 2014 22:18 Darkhorse wrote:On April 12 2014 22:11 Blargh wrote:On April 12 2014 21:56 BarneyNapalm wrote:On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:
[quote]
I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped.
Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Shouldn't EG release most, if not all of their current SC2 squad then? While everyone except Jaedong is performing rather poorly (and maybe Huk?), the rest of the crew don't really need to so long as they market EG's sponsors well. Incontrol, for instance, has enough character and marketing skills that he is probably one of EG's best players. Of course, Jaedong is good too. Most Koreans do not really do anything to sell their sponsors like a foreigner does (though there are Acer ads of Innovation/MMA holding Acer laptops) Jaedong is performing rather poorly as well. That being said, what you mentioned about marketing is true. Jaedong performing poorly rofl. Jaedong and poorly. Two words which should never be in the same sentence. I wonder what was happening last night when he was smashing nerds left and right at the top of the KR ladder. There is a huge luck factor in sc2. Just because he's not winning every tournament he's not performing badly. he didnt win any tournament except that asus something and house something aka two of 2000 random foreign tourneys, his 2014 has been a trainwreck and he didnt even compete in Korea, he lost to Has I mean who the hell is has? Does that read 'poorly' to you? meanwhile two ex-EGs are doing awesome lol
Has is one of the best Chinese players out there. If you look at wcs America, the Chinese have proven to be serious contenders. Like I said, sc2 is luck based. On any given days, there are dozens of players who could take a series off the best player in the world. It doesn't surprise me. There are way more undiscovered players out there who could do the same.
|
On April 12 2014 23:11 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 22:55 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 12 2014 22:18 Darkhorse wrote:On April 12 2014 22:11 Blargh wrote:On April 12 2014 21:56 BarneyNapalm wrote:On April 12 2014 11:51 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 11:32 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2014 09:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On April 12 2014 09:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2014 08:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:
[quote]
I disagree, when you sign someone you should do a test run first that everything goes as planned. Dear played really poorly recently, and likely isn't worth what he's being paid, so I don't really see the issue of having him dropped.
Obviously he's in a tough situation with him falling out of Code A and being team less, but that's his fault for not performing. That may sound harsh, but that's the life of a progamer. Absolute bollocks. So lemme tell you the one person we did a "test run" with. Impact. We signed him to a 3 month test contract. He had no results, only a handful of VoDs for us to even look at. We had the recommendation of Coach Ryu and a bit of background on his personality thanks to the State of Play documentary, along with Soulkeys belief that he had promise. I felt guilty as hell not committing to him and only took that decision because I had very little information to work with. We signed him for double what WJS were paying him. He did not show results in GSTL during those 3 months and he failed to advance in Code A. You would have fired him. I didn't. Now he is in the GSL World Championship. 3 month form means dick. You do not sign WCS champions to 3 month contracts. It's cowardly, it shows no commitment to the player, nor any trust in him. That lack of trust can and will undermine a player. We have no idea if that's what he was signed to or if Mouz was able to terminate the contract under a clause, because Mouz has deliberately concealed the actual reason for his firing. I'm sorry but from my perspective, I'd never run a team like that. When you sign a player you commit long-term and that's the only way you get and deserve the loyalty of that player. Should I have shitcanned Ryung who has been slumping far longer than Dear? Not in my eyes and I'm glad I didn't, he will come back into form because his team is showing trust in him and helping him to get to that point. What about Alicia? He bombed at ASUS ROG, we spent a lot of money to get him there and he failed. Should we have fired him then due to underperformance? No, because that would be stupid, Starcraft careers are long and so are slumps. If we hadn't had faith in him he wouldn't be RO4 WCS right now, standing alongside an entire lineup of players who Mouz apparently would have fired due to underperformance as would you and other people on this forum if you were actually managers. Those players crushed some of the best in the world to get there. Yeah forgive me if I think those people are short-sighted and would have more success if they actually committed to building players long-term rather than tried to buy their way to the top and then discarded players that didn't produce immediate results. I hope the reasoning behind his firing comes out, because I'd like to actually believe that Mousesports is not the kind of organisation that would treat players like trading cards and that they had good reasons for what they did. I agree with you Totalbiscuit, and no doubt, I would prefer if more teams behaved like that. You listed stories of successes of slumping players to me, however I can find arguments for many players that never came out of their slumps. Looking at Teamliquid, Zenio never became a star, and Nony could never regain the glory he showed at the end of the BW TSL era. I think that all the Korean's on EG underperformed for what was initially expected. Puma is the main one, and I think Oz and Revival played quite poorly during their time on EG as well. Just because the player tasted glory doesn't mean they will ever return to it. On top of that, Mouz put a lot into this pick-up, and maybe that was a mistake. Take your team TB, if you had one or two slumping players, you usually had someone pretty skilled that can keep the team name alive for the time being. But if Mouz pays Dear a huge salary, hire two employees just for his, etc... The pressure is on him to perform, and I think that seasoned veterans need to be capable of handling such pressures. Of course other factors can be at play such as voice of sponsors, the change in management, personal conflicts, unreasonable negotiations, it's really hard to say because we don't have perfect information. I respect you a lot as a team owner TB, but I don't think it's that preposterous or evil of Mouz to dump Dear under certain circumstances. Anyway, good luck Dear. That Maru Dear rivalry was a nice one. Did you really just say Puma under performed on EG? The guy won an NASL, an IEM, picked up 2nd's at IEM WC, DreamHack Winter, and 3rd's at am IEM and Assembly. Guy wins close to $100k on EG and he under performs. And Oz and Revival? What majors did they win pre or post EG? None. They had their best showings as EG players. And considering EG signed them for PL, I think they exceeded expectations. To answer the statement about Puma, EG released Puma because he was under performing. Check their statement about it. Shouldn't EG release most, if not all of their current SC2 squad then? While everyone except Jaedong is performing rather poorly (and maybe Huk?), the rest of the crew don't really need to so long as they market EG's sponsors well. Incontrol, for instance, has enough character and marketing skills that he is probably one of EG's best players. Of course, Jaedong is good too. Most Koreans do not really do anything to sell their sponsors like a foreigner does (though there are Acer ads of Innovation/MMA holding Acer laptops) Jaedong is performing rather poorly as well. That being said, what you mentioned about marketing is true. Jaedong performing poorly rofl. Jaedong and poorly. Two words which should never be in the same sentence. I wonder what was happening last night when he was smashing nerds left and right at the top of the KR ladder. There is a huge luck factor in sc2. Just because he's not winning every tournament he's not performing badly. he didnt win any tournament except that asus something and house something aka two of 2000 random foreign tourneys, his 2014 has been a trainwreck and he didnt even compete in Korea, he lost to Has I mean who the hell is has? Does that read 'poorly' to you? meanwhile two ex-EGs are doing awesome lol
I don't think you can excuse your ignorance by asking "who the hell is Has". If you don't know him, you're not trying hard enough.
And @ the above, Has is Taiwanese not Chinese.
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I look at WCS AM and I saw top8 Korean so whats the deal with those chinese/taiwanese whatever? Also I was saying his 2014 has been terrible, stop sleeping on his 2013 kong mode.
I don't think you can excuse your ignorance by asking "who the hell is Has". If you don't know him, you're not trying hard enough.
And @ the above, Has is Taiwanese not Chinese.
Like 90% of teamliquid only gets to know Has after he hilariously cheesed out JD, no?. Why should I try to know this random dude anyway? All I care to know is hes a random dude who cheesed out JD and would probably disappear in coming months. Funny how you try to defend JD's horrible 1st round defeat by trying to validate his apparently random cheesy opponent. Plz defend his IEM exits too
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On April 13 2014 02:14 Arceus wrote:I look at WCS AM and I saw top8 Korean so whats the deal with those chinese/taiwanese whatever? Also I was saying his 2014 has been terrible, stop sleeping on his 2013 kong mode. Show nested quote +I don't think you can excuse your ignorance by asking "who the hell is Has". If you don't know him, you're not trying hard enough.
And @ the above, Has is Taiwanese not Chinese. Like 90% of teamliquid only gets to know Has after he hilariously cheesed out JD, no?. Why should I try to know this random dude anyway? All I care to know is hes a random dude who cheesed out JD and would probably disappear in coming months. Funny how you try to defend JD's horrible 1st round defeat by trying to validate his apparently random cheesy opponent. Plz defend his IEM exits too
I'm not trying to defend anything or anyone. Laugh my fucking ass off at your misguided and ignorant assumptions.
All I'm saying is, if you don't know Has then it's your own fault. And you should "try to know him" because you're the one who's saying he's a nobody. I don't think 90% of TL explicitly said that he's a nobody, which is why I'm calling you out, you don't get to use the defense that others are in the same boat because they're not.
tl;dr you're wrong, do your research before spouting unsubstantiated shit.
P.S. Has owned the shit out of MarineKing not a week ago, 4-1.
But I'm done arguing with people who clearly have no idea who's good and who isn't, so feel free to foam at the mouth and pretend that you're somehow right about this.
People who don't follow the game closely enough should not have the right to say things like these, especially when they act like they know anything lmao.
User was banned for this post.
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I don't understand why MasterOfPuppets was banned for the previous post.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 14 2014 10:10 chaos021 wrote:
I don't understand why MasterOfPuppets was banned for the previous post.
He was not banned for that specific post but rather a large selection of similarly unpleasant posts. However, if you have questions about moderation you should take them to Website Feedback and not this thread.
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Well, if they wanted an all EU team, why pick him up in the first place? Makes no sense to drop easily the best player on the team. Oh wait that's right, Mousesports wants a team of crappy EU players. Dear will be in Kespa and Proleague soon enough, I can see Prime dropping State and picking up Dear within the next few weeks.
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On April 15 2014 06:01 BVRHNT3R wrote:
Well, if they wanted an all EU team, why pick him up in the first place? Makes no sense to drop easily the best player on the team. Oh wait that's right, Mousesports wants a team of crappy EU players. Dear will be in Kespa and Proleague soon enough, I can see Prime dropping State and picking up Dear within the next few weeks.
"Crappy EU players" VortiX made RO8 WCS EU, HasuObs narrowly missed out on qualifying for IEM Katowice through an incredibly stacked Open Bracket. I wouldn't call that crappy, at all. The fact you think Prime are even capable of signing Dear is actually quite laughable, a player of Dear's calibre would require a much larger salary than pretty much every Prime player currently.
That and the fact that if you look at the PL roster changes, aLive, Oz and hyvaa were free agents and would all be a big boost to a lacking Prime team and yet didn't go to Prime heck Oz went to some unknown EU team sponsored by a cd key company. The only addition they have to their roster is Leenock, who is there as part of a partnership with yoe Flash Wolves so wouldn't be on their payroll. Prime aren't rolling in filthy KeSPA riches, why else do you think they're re establishing their online store?
But then again, the more I read your post, the more I see that you have some kind of intense dislike of foreigners. Unless you have some kind of strange insider knowledge of Prime it's unlikely they're going to drop State, we've seen him once in PL where he got cheesed by Classic and he was visibly nervous, season 1 of GSL? He narrowly missed out on qualifying for Code A. He's already more accomplished than a few of the Korean players on Prime in my eyes.
That aside, yes it sucks that Dear was dropped not long after he joined and even Wake, who worked so hard on getting his signature seems upset with it too but there are plenty of other foreign teams who have more experience when it comes to having Koreans on the roster who hopefully will find the funds to sign him, give him a good practice environment and help him out of his slump.
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On April 12 2014 22:19 Shellshock wrote:
Maybe Alliance will pick up Dear to replace Naniwa
It's an EG subsidiary, Dear is not enough of a Personality. He'll need to BM some people on stream, make whiny blogs and troll the forums a bit before his application can be considered.
Really though, it would not surprise me in the least if EGlliance decided to just say "screw SC2" and focus on Dota, where they pull huge numbers and actually, you know, win stuff. It's either back to Korea as a lower level player or something like Acer.
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the timing seems to be a little unfortunite though
best of luck in the future
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I usually eat at Maoz for lunch
but I have not been there this entire week .
Don't support them!!
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I hope CM Storm is looking at him.
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EPT
Dennis "mouz 
HasuObs" Schneider - Team Captain
HeRoMaRinE" Segat
Matic "mouz 
Starbuck" Dejac
Juan "mouz 
