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On March 21 2014 21:44 Odecey wrote:
I feel compelled to put a few things straight here. Firstly, Naniwa did not do anything wrong by forfeiting against Polt. It's completely within each player's rights to forfeit for whatever reason.
The question is whether he did something wrong by retiring before his contract was up. If the contract stipulates that the contractee cannot terminate it himself, then forcing this on Alliancce was wrong. If it did not however, then there is insufficient information to decide whether he was in the wrong on this point. We don't know when/how Naniwa informed his team that he was no longer playing. If he did this when he stopped, the situation at IEM should never have occured: Alliance should merely have released him then, when he expressed he had no intention to keep playing.
Naniwa is completely right when points out that he was not required to transfer his spot at IEM, after it became clear to him that he did not want to compete. Such a decision is up to the event organizer, who determines the criteria for competing, who according to Naniwa were informed that he did not wish to participate. When they pressured him into going, they set themselves up for this to happen.
I also want to address the hate mongering that has surrounded Naniwa ever since he entered the scene: It's pathetic how the community at large have assigned him as a punchingbag because of his demeanor, frankness, and impulsiveness. These personality traits do not give you a licence to bully a person. By doing so, you're starting a vicious cycle where he will respond spontaneusly and emotionally, which will set him up for further abuse. All these comments of "I hate him" "Has he been diagnosed yet?" "What a loser." are frankly cruel, and ironically go way beyond any wrongdoing he may have committed. The willingness of every forumgoer and his dog to jump on every situation he handles suboptimally, with the contempt of someone witnessing a warcrime, is a cyber assault of negativity, and you wonder why he calls this community disgusting? The hypocracy is so ripe you can taste it.
I'm glad he's leaving. He will be better off out of the microscope people have put him under, free to be himself without all this judgement.
This will probably be a good time for me to leave aswell, in the sense that I won't be posting here ever again. Unfortunately, it still seems like the best place to find tournament results, schedules, etc, so I guess I'll still be using that.
Don't ever think this place is above the standards of the internet at large: It's not.
Wow, such an eloquent post. It's really heart-lifting to hear people like you speak up and to see that they actually exist. Unfortunately, eloquent comments happen here way too rarely.
It's sad that you are considering leaving this community, but I fully understand why you are thinking about that. In fact, I expect that my participation in this forum will decease over time as well.
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On March 21 2014 18:55 Drake wrote:
"i am sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. "
i am sure not ...
Actually that's probably true. SADLY.
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as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did
That's not ironic. I would expect people used to dealing with sponsors to think that's common sense.
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Well Naniwa is a interesting person that's for sure. Not like all the other players. He just dont care about what others think of him, and he's to overconfident about his own abilities in general. That attitude towards things will be problematic for him. You should care about your bridges, you never know when they will come in handy. I like him as a player, but not as a person.
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I think if naniwa just lost instead of forfeiting his match he wouldnt have been released from Alliance... cuz honestly i think alliance wouldve kept him as a permanent or at least a long-term member if he didnt create this kind of drama... but it is naniwa and i commend him for making such a bold and drastic move. gl to him in the future and i hope he doesnt retire.
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I'm Happy that Naniwa is finally gone. He was a good Player and definetly one of the best foreingners. But he was not nearly as good as he thought he was, and when he failed he always blamed it on balance or the tournament Organiseres. He always complained when he Lost to an All In although his whole succes was based an doing All Ins and that he believes that he could be the best foreigner again if he would practise 2 weaks is just ridicolous. Stephano still plays quite a bit and is still really bad right now. And he was way better than Naniwa in his Prime, because unlike him he actually won big Tournaments. In my opinion Naniwas toxic behavior did more harm to the Starcraft scene than his succes has ever done good.
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On March 21 2014 22:09 robson1 wrote:
gl hf in the real world naniwa, you gonna need it with that attitude.
Whenever I see something like that I can't help but think that the reason to post such a sentence is to increase the self-esteem of the person who is posting.
Bravo.
You know what? Masses are not successful. Shitting over people is not successful. Blaming others is not going to lead you anywhere. If anything, learn yourself the proper attitude to life, otherwise the person who is going to need luck in life will be you.
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On March 21 2014 22:15 pms wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 22:09 robson1 wrote:
gl hf in the real world naniwa, you gonna need it with that attitude. Whenever I see something like that I can't help but think that the reason to post such a sentence is to increase the self-esteem of the person who is posting. Bravo. You know what? Masses are not successful. Shitting over people is not successful. Blaming others is not going to lead you anywhere. If anything, learn yourself the proper attitude to life or the person who is going to need luck in life will be you.
You do see the irony in what you are writing here right?
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On March 21 2014 21:51 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 21:25 reapsen wrote:On March 21 2014 21:18 Dracolich70 wrote:On March 21 2014 21:06 reapsen wrote:On March 21 2014 21:00 Zax19 wrote:On March 21 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 21 2014 18:59 Grovbolle wrote:On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote:latest post from Johan: On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote:everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me ) i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough.  but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg. He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him. But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create. Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story... On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote:
I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways. That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ? Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child. But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say. On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote:latest post from Johan: On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote:everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me ) i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg. He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him. But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create. Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story... On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote:
I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways. That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ? You can and you should. If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked. There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine. Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do. You're not a soldier and this is not orders. You go to your manager and say something along the lines : " I want to quit, so do not send me there ". " You are obliged to do so because contract ". " So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?" If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways Quoted for the truth If you are a good manager you say: "No, i want you to go, be professional and put your personal feelings aside for the company that paid your living for the last months, when you already slacked around. Give your best one more time, represent yourself, our team and our sponsors in the most dignified way and then go out of scene with a decent ending." Seriously, you make it sound as if asking (or commanding) him to play a last decent bo5 set is some kind of slave work... wtf? Naniwa have a competitive mind. He can't give a good show, if his heart is not in it. He can't do his best, because he hadn't practiced. Anyone who understands Naniwa would never send him there. No, he does not have a competetive mind. He has a narcissistic mind. He only can give his best, when he feels that he personally can gain anything from the game. A professional competitor will give his best (or atleast be somewhat entertaining) whenever there is at least 1 guy in the audience who paid for watching him perform. If he was narcissistic, rather than competitive, he would care about how he looked, you are going in the opposite direction. Naniwa is the best foreigner because he is perfectionistic, and he is fueled by passion. If the passion is not there, or nothing is at stake, he can't give a good performance, which by Naniwa standards is not just being happy to participate. His stride for being the best, is what got him there, and there are consequences, when he is not there, or this not being understood. Show nested quote +It blows my mind that he was in the business for such a long time and still does not understand the necessity of reputation of yourself and the people and companys you represent.
Naniwa is not like everyone else. Which is why he was better than everyone else at what he was doing. If you try to take this out of Naniwa, you have a shell that cannot perform, as he was fueled by passion. He can't be a Thorzain-type of swede, because he is not. Just like IdrA couldn't be someone else. Nor should he have to be.
Caring about how you come across, is not what narcissistic entails. In fact it means the direct opposite, you don't care how you come across, because you are already sure that you are awesome. It means that you think you are always in the right, you are something special, etc. look here for more info. Just look at the symptoms, at least 5 out of the 7 can be directly applied.
That is why he thinks all the failure is never his fault its always others who did him wrong and he can do whatever the hell he wants.
Also "Which is why he was better than everyone else at what he was doing." is just plain wrong, because koreans. Even the "best foreigner thing" is highly debatable imo.
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Without seeing the exact terms of the contract we can't specualte if what he did was out of order. If there was no contractual obligation to play SC2 then he's totally fine refusing to play.
If I was writing the contract it would have something like "make reasonable effort to perform" and I would add a notice period where if the player stopped practicing they were obviously in breach of the above and payment would be terminated.
It could have been a really weak contract so i'm not going to make judgements of Alliance or Naniwa.
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Sounds to me that he should have insisted not going there to find out what these "consequences" from IEM would be. Better to get removed from the team before the event, seeing how you just quit, than going there and not really caring about playing.
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Go Nani! You are the best ever. Don't let these retards put you down.
User was warned for this post
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On March 21 2014 21:59 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 21:35 jarod wrote:On March 21 2014 21:32 SC2Toastie wrote:On March 21 2014 21:30 jarod wrote:
i guess the only team where naniwa can stay cool and not do stuff like this and not lose interest would be a korean team, staying in a korean team house.
I`m somehow sad that he left sc2(e-sport), but i have a feeling that he will be back, a bit sorry that the departure happened like this, he really looked like an ass when left IEM.
Some say that nani is the best foreigner.. i rank him top 5, hard to say who is the best, but i`d say something like Jinro, Stephano, Huk, Nani, Idra Misses Scarlett plz? Scarllet is awesome and can still be the best, but until now i cannot put her before Jinro or Stephano or Huk or even Idra, these 4 when they were at their best won tournaments or go deep in GSL, what did Scarllet win? (and naniwa beat last year scarllet, and overall showed better results). But hey! this is just my opinion. Scarlett and Jinro played at very different times. No disrespect to Jinro, but while he was at the top at the start, he would be nowhere these days. It's like the early days of BW, but compressed. The foreigners who did well succeeded for a while, but really that's because the game wasn't developed at the time. Scarlett is much more impressive as a player because the game is harder than it was. She may not have the same successes, but that's because the competition is harder in her "era".
"Best" is a very vague and not very useful term. It just encompasses too much. We would be better off differentiating between most skilled and most accomplished. Stephano is the most accomplished, Nani and Scarlett were probably the ones with the highest skill level.
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On March 21 2014 22:16 Zeze wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 22:15 pms wrote:On March 21 2014 22:09 robson1 wrote:
gl hf in the real world naniwa, you gonna need it with that attitude. Whenever I see something like that I can't help but think that the reason to post such a sentence is to increase the self-esteem of the person who is posting. Bravo. You know what? Masses are not successful. Shitting over people is not successful. Blaming others is not going to lead you anywhere. If anything, learn yourself the proper attitude to life or the person who is going to need luck in life will be you. You do see the irony in what you are writing here right?
So you're thinking that I'm increasing my self esteem by bashing other people? Well, you can think it. The only thing I'm saying here is that mindlessly following the crowd is not going to lead you anywhere in life. This is obvious to me and there are many examples for that. So if somebody mindlessly follows the crow in hate toward a person that actually has a personality and a direction in life, then for me the only way of explaining it is that this person basically feels better this way, which is pitiful.
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On March 21 2014 22:11 Valikyr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 18:55 Drake wrote:
"i am sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. "
i am sure not ... Actually that's probably true. SADLY.
I think he exaggerated the time period - I think he could achieve it in 2-6 months. Anyways, the point he makes here is clear - he could make it, unless there is a new talent appearing on the scene, or Scarlet buffs her skill in Korea in next months, which would make it harder for Naniwa to be the best foreigner again.
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On March 21 2014 22:05 Gothic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 20:20 mcc wrote:Funny thing though is that the people who were condemning him the most for taking someone else's place in the tournament, completely forgot that now and have new terrible thing to condemn. The previous excuse for bashing him conveniently forgotten as it seems to have been false. I find this interesting too. First people rant and rave about what a dick move it was to take up a tournament slot, how someone else more deserving could have had it, etc etc, and how this was "typical Naniwa" to not care about the fans or the audience who paid money for tickets and the poor organizers and whatnot. Then it turns out he was forced to go (I tried to point this out in the first thread but it got ignored among all the hate posts), and now people completely forget about being wrong there and instead find something else to focus the hate on... "he forfeited two games, burn him!!" Seriously people. When will you stop being so assuming and judgemental just because you've made up your mind that you don't like a person's pointy surface? Look a bit deeper, and sometimes you might be surprised. Not always, and maybe not necessarily in this case - but sometimes. This is what the typical hater posts look to me: Week 1: "Seriously, he should've just stayed away and not brought his shitty attitude to IEM. Why even bother to come when he didn't want to play anyway? Other players would've given anything to be there!"Week 2: "I don't get how unprofessional Naniwa is! If your team tells you to go attend a tournament, you go do your job!"Which is it people? Yes, you could say that he should have gone and played out two more games, even if it was in his full rights to forfeit. It still doesn't explain your assumptions that he was a dick for going on the tournament in the first place.
I don't see how the two statements have to be contradictory, merely mutually exclusive. He should be at least trying to play the game for which he is sponsored to do. If not, why show up in the first place? That he chose that something in between is probably more unprofessional than either-or. Either he should have stayed for the duration, or not show up at all. It would have been best for him to play the games, a bit tattered should he have left prior (a sour twinge between him and Alliance, but little more), but he made a grandiose gesture by forfeiting halfway, which was the worst thing he could have done. He essentially gave the bird to IEM, to Alliance, and to the community that cheered him on.
If you look back at the string of tweets, statements and acts by Naniwa since and including IEM, you can't deny that he REALLY wanted to burn those bridges. Nothing he's said hasn't incited riots on the forums and elsewhere.
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m-my white hope ;_;
welp, I think it's only fair to kick him from the team since he's not playing it anymore
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Good move by Alliance, the drama was killed pretty quickly.
At least Nani can turn into best foreigner at will, so playing showmatches and smaller cups should give him enough money to live decently.
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Did he just become Naniwas ?
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EPT
