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On March 13 2014 22:43 S1eth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 22:14 Tyrhanius wrote:
The problem is DK try to do as few changes as possible. But patchs are not important just for balance. Patchs are what increase the lengthtime of the game.
If you look at LOL/Dota2, they patch heroes, release new one. Each new season brings a new meta, different ways to play, and it's what keep players on the game, and make the game popular.
But on SC2 we have a minor patch each 3 months. And they don't bring new ways to play or make them more entertaining.
And if you look at HOTS patch history they have nearly only nerf OP stuff.
They only add no real content to the game, making the number of viewers to decrease, but they take very long to patch some broken stuff.
They act like they don't want to recognize something is too strong or they've made a mistake, so they let the thing a lot of time ("we wait the players learn to play to see if it needs a change").
And after they're blocked. Deathball toss are too strong, but Zerg has learn the only way to deal with it is to never engage it, and slowly kill it with SH. same with the new mech (due to DK's buff of raven/tank/banshee).
So they say the game are too long and sometimes boring, but if they nerf SH, they would crush balance because zerg wouldn't be able to win in late. So they can't really nerf SH now, beacause they haven't fixed the issue of lategame Toss when we have reported them.
Or DK makes 3-6 months to fix something obviously imbalance. Is it some nerf players wasn't asking for months he made ? Hellbats drops, WM, buff ghost, MSC nerf, etc... All the things he has done is waiting the longer he can before making something which has to be done, or make insignifiant change, or broken one's("hey it would be could if oracle are as fast as a mutalisk and kill a mineral line just when you press a touch"). If you could stop comparing a boxed copy RTS game with free-to-play MOBA games and could point out an RTS game maker that does a better job at patching/expanding their games than Blizzard does, that's be nice.
Is it more difficult to make a new hero or to change hydralisk attack speed to 0.83 to 0.75 ?
There is no reason a MOBA are more patch than a RTS.
One of the reason a MOBA is more popular is they constantly add stuff, they have understood the new esport, and the new generation of players.
But blizzard don't seem to have understood this. They are just : MOBA are popular ? I will make a MOBA too.
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I just realized I only post on TL these days just to express my disappointment about these interviews. I feel it would be better if they didn't exist at all, at least we could then have the illusion of hope.
Instead we get a sad reminder that SC2 will remain a stiff and un-fun game to play and watch.
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On March 13 2014 22:23 Nauseam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 22:13 Big J wrote:On March 13 2014 22:09 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:07 Plansix wrote:On March 13 2014 22:02 Big J wrote:
Btw the real sad story is how the most stupid questions get upvoted on reddit. There were reasonable questions like about Mech TvP, what he thinks about Immortal allins in ZvP, what about the one or other specific unit.
You know, stuff where he could actually say something meaningful. Instead we get those "are there big chances coming, tell us everything about your companies secrets please". "Why don't you redesign the game in a patch" bullshit questions that have been asked before and are vague as shit. Agreed. The fact that he was asked the same questions as last time is a bummer. I would have liked to see someone beyond "are you guys getting rid of warpgate and force field yet?" Those questions are a lot more important than asking about some random all-in from Toss. I dont care if they are more important to you personally. They dont yield anything. It's a waste of time to ask a firm about it's secrets... And I don't care if you think changing some numbers on some units is important because it makes one random Toss all-in out of a thousand less strong. Why even have an AMA if he can't answer any questions of substantial value? And besides, he did answer about their "secrets" although he answers like a politician. I find it pretty obvious from his answers that Blizzard thinks most of the core mechanics in SC2 are in a good state. Also, he said they won't risk changing anything fundamental unless it's "absolutely amazing" which means they won't change anything at all. So no, those questions were not a waste of time.
Yes, he said that 5AMAs ago. Those are answers from 2011 and 2012. Why the fuck ask the same question again?
It's a waste of time. He answered those things in the last AMA already, which was what, 2months ago.
Yes, he answered like a politician. If he didn't, instead of 10page os "omg, he doesn't say anything"-bullshit, we'd now be reading through 100pages of "omg, they are going to introduce another splash unit for Protoss. Haven't they learned anything from the Colossus???????????????????" (assuming he reveals they have experimented with anything splash related). It would be even worse, even though the unit would not even make it into the game. That's why he rather says nothing that isn't at least 10% confirmed. You know, what's the safest scenario for blizzard:
a) "yup, we will try a highground advantage for LotV" in 2014 - just that it may get cut again in 2015
b) "no, we heard you but we won't include highground advantages. We tried them, they are shit" in 2014
c) "we are trying it guys. But if it does not fit the game it won't make it in" in 2014
It's c). If they are not sure, they will not tell you. End of story. It makes the most sense.
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On March 13 2014 22:45 lolmanpro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 22:10 reapsen wrote:
I am a software engineer myself and getting a piece of software in a beta test, typically means it is full-featured and you want to test the technical aspects, i.e. if its bug-free, if it sustains higher loads and maybe have a few adjustments (hotfixes) on your features based on customer feedback.
If you transfer this over to starcraft, which is also nothing else but a piece of software, the beta phase (especially the HotS) Beta showed complete removals of units (warhound), complete reworking of units (oracle, widow mine, mothership core, ... ) and the changes/removal of spells and abilities (ultraliks charge fore example) which are integral feature changes.
That should not be part of a beta! It just emitts what i mentioned in the previous post, that there is no plan or vision what the game in its final state should look like.
Publishing videos on your own convention (Blizzcon 2011) and then have almost none of the promoted changes in the final product is just another indicator that they have no inherent clue how to design the multiplayer part and all the results come from the trial-and-error approach.
I speculate that they pursue design-ideas almost entirely on the "awesomeness-factor" rather if they fit the global plan/vision of how the game should be in its final state.
By the way, i really would like to express that i think, that the game is technically crafted well from a software engineering standpoint. In this regard Blizzard always delivers flawless products. I agree, Blizzard is absolutely clueless when it comes to designing a multiplayer game. They just have no idea what they are doing, and whenever they make a change it's just something they randomly made up. No instead they should program a perfectly thought out game inside their studio and not release it until it's utterly complete and final form, that's how great multiplayer games are made, unlike all the multiplayer game failures like Starcraft 2 that Blizzard usually release. You should send them your ideas along with your CV, a great "software engineer" like you might just be what Blizzard need to be able to finally make good multiplayer games again.
Yeah, you totally missed my point, which is that the sc2 game designers lack a vision of the finished product.
Alot of really great games have a visionary game designer, who has the game thoughtout in its basics before development even begins, i am talking here about people like Peter Molyneux, John Carmac, Sid Meier, etc. (and to some extend IceFrog). Those carry the idea who the final product should look like and push the development in this direction. This does not mean, that they have the perfect game in their heads right from the start, of course balance changes will always be necessary in the development process.
I don't see that vision in the development sc2 took until now...
Nice try in a sarcastic approach tho...
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On March 13 2014 10:57 Headnoob wrote:
He should run for office, not many people can so so little in so many words.
Starbow is a wonderful alternative that's being so utterly ignored.
Seeing how the SC2 scene is currently streets ahead of the Starbow scene almost makes me want to begin a Kickstarter or Indiegogo campaign to raise funds for a huge Starbow Starleague.
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On March 13 2014 22:31 Spaylz wrote:
If they were to release or even work on WC4, it would be after SC2 is done and starts going (more) downhill. But even by the time that happens (which I suspect won't be too long from after LotV's release), WoW will still be there. The new expansion, Warlords of Draenor, is probably going to be released roughly at the same time as LotV. Again, they said they have 2 o 3 more expansions already lined up for WoW. For WC4 to ever come, they need to either wrap up the WoW part of the storyline, or do some kind of weird alternate time line with the game.
I don't agree with your time frames at all. I think its almost 100% certain LotV will not come out this year since they have not even started hyping it up. I'd say its going to be in Q3 or Q4 next year at earliest, could even be later. Warlords of Draenor is pretty much confirmed for this year though and I'd guess its going to be released around october-ish.
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On March 13 2014 10:58 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 10:54 avilo wrote:
Swarmhosts are not necessary vs mech in the first place - the viper alone allows Zerg to fight against turtle meching Terrans. a terran who's not good enough to play in wcs explaining how he knows more about zerg than zergs who are good enough to play in wcs, buffered by a 1000-page theorycraft essay with repeated references to how you literally invented the concept of constructing a raven i would know this is avilo even without seeing the name
Where the fuck is your Grandmaster League emblem?
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On March 13 2014 23:00 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 22:23 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:13 Big J wrote:On March 13 2014 22:09 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:07 Plansix wrote:On March 13 2014 22:02 Big J wrote:
Btw the real sad story is how the most stupid questions get upvoted on reddit. There were reasonable questions like about Mech TvP, what he thinks about Immortal allins in ZvP, what about the one or other specific unit.
You know, stuff where he could actually say something meaningful. Instead we get those "are there big chances coming, tell us everything about your companies secrets please". "Why don't you redesign the game in a patch" bullshit questions that have been asked before and are vague as shit. Agreed. The fact that he was asked the same questions as last time is a bummer. I would have liked to see someone beyond "are you guys getting rid of warpgate and force field yet?" Those questions are a lot more important than asking about some random all-in from Toss. I dont care if they are more important to you personally. They dont yield anything. It's a waste of time to ask a firm about it's secrets... And I don't care if you think changing some numbers on some units is important because it makes one random Toss all-in out of a thousand less strong. Why even have an AMA if he can't answer any questions of substantial value? And besides, he did answer about their "secrets" although he answers like a politician. I find it pretty obvious from his answers that Blizzard thinks most of the core mechanics in SC2 are in a good state. Also, he said they won't risk changing anything fundamental unless it's "absolutely amazing" which means they won't change anything at all. So no, those questions were not a waste of time. Yes, he said that 5AMAs ago. Those are answers from 2011 and 2012. Why the fuck ask the same question again? It's a waste of time. He answered those things in the last AMA already, which was what, 2months ago. Yes, he answered like a politician. If he didn't, instead of 10page os "omg, he doesn't say anything"-bullshit, we'd now be reading through 100pages of "omg, they are going to introduce another splash unit for Protoss. Haven't they learned anything from the Colossus???????????????????" (assuming he reveals they have experimented with anything splash related). It would be even worse, even though the unit would not even make it into the game. That's why he rather says nothing that isn't at least 10% confirmed. You know, what's the safest scenario for blizzard: a) "yup, we will try a highground advantage for LotV" in 2014 - just that it may get cut again in 2015 b) "no, we heard you but we won't include highground advantages. We tried them, they are shit" in 2014 c) "we are trying it guys. But if it does not fit the game it won't make it in" in 2014 It's c). If they are not sure, they will not tell you. End of story. It makes the most sense.
It's Reddit, of course stupid questions are going to make their way to the top. Reddit only wants to hear answers to questions they already have strong opinions on and where they already know how Blizzard thinks. It's part of their hivemind stuff.
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On March 13 2014 23:00 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 22:23 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:13 Big J wrote:On March 13 2014 22:09 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:07 Plansix wrote:On March 13 2014 22:02 Big J wrote:
Btw the real sad story is how the most stupid questions get upvoted on reddit. There were reasonable questions like about Mech TvP, what he thinks about Immortal allins in ZvP, what about the one or other specific unit.
You know, stuff where he could actually say something meaningful. Instead we get those "are there big chances coming, tell us everything about your companies secrets please". "Why don't you redesign the game in a patch" bullshit questions that have been asked before and are vague as shit. Agreed. The fact that he was asked the same questions as last time is a bummer. I would have liked to see someone beyond "are you guys getting rid of warpgate and force field yet?" Those questions are a lot more important than asking about some random all-in from Toss. I dont care if they are more important to you personally. They dont yield anything. It's a waste of time to ask a firm about it's secrets... And I don't care if you think changing some numbers on some units is important because it makes one random Toss all-in out of a thousand less strong. Why even have an AMA if he can't answer any questions of substantial value? And besides, he did answer about their "secrets" although he answers like a politician. I find it pretty obvious from his answers that Blizzard thinks most of the core mechanics in SC2 are in a good state. Also, he said they won't risk changing anything fundamental unless it's "absolutely amazing" which means they won't change anything at all. So no, those questions were not a waste of time. Yes, he said that 5AMAs ago. Those are answers from 2011 and 2012. Why the fuck ask the same question again? It's a waste of time. He answered those things in the last AMA already, which was what, 2months ago. Yes, he answered like a politician. If he didn't, instead of 10page os "omg, he doesn't say anything"-bullshit, we'd now be reading through 100pages of "omg, they are going to introduce another splash unit for Protoss. Haven't they learned anything from the Colossus???????????????????" (assuming he reveals they have experimented with anything splash related). It would be even worse, even though the unit would not even make it into the game. That's why he rather says nothing that isn't at least 10% confirmed. You know, what's the safest scenario for blizzard: a) "yup, we will try a highground advantage for LotV" in 2014 - just that it may get cut again in 2015 b) "no, we heard you but we won't include highground advantages. We tried them, they are shit" in 2014 c) "we are trying it guys. But if it does not fit the game it won't make it in" in 2014 It's c). If they are not sure, they will not tell you. End of story. It makes the most sense.
People ask those questions over and over cause they are the most important ones hoping that Blizzard might have taken a new stance on them. Quite easy to understand. But if you wanna see him answer some questions about how he is gonna tweak some numbers on a unit which does little to nothing to actually CHANGE the game it's fine I suppose. Most people wanna see some real answers to the big questions though.
You are defeating your own arguments with your example. Why even have an AMA in the first place if they can't answer anything really?
Only thing they accomplish with AMA's like this one is lowering the confidence the SC2 community has in Blizzard. They don't "calm the community", they do the exact opposite of it.
People have high standards in a Blizzard title. They don't accept SC2 or Diablo3 just being good. It's supposed to be "fucking amazing cause it's Blizzard". If SC2 or Diablo3 were released by some random company I guarantee you that the amount of whine would be a fraction of what it is today and has been since their releases.
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i think it's a good thing to see David Kim discuss a bit more about the game, and help us to realise what's happen !
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On March 13 2014 23:00 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 22:23 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:13 Big J wrote:On March 13 2014 22:09 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:07 Plansix wrote:On March 13 2014 22:02 Big J wrote:
Btw the real sad story is how the most stupid questions get upvoted on reddit. There were reasonable questions like about Mech TvP, what he thinks about Immortal allins in ZvP, what about the one or other specific unit.
You know, stuff where he could actually say something meaningful. Instead we get those "are there big chances coming, tell us everything about your companies secrets please". "Why don't you redesign the game in a patch" bullshit questions that have been asked before and are vague as shit. Agreed. The fact that he was asked the same questions as last time is a bummer. I would have liked to see someone beyond "are you guys getting rid of warpgate and force field yet?" Those questions are a lot more important than asking about some random all-in from Toss. I dont care if they are more important to you personally. They dont yield anything. It's a waste of time to ask a firm about it's secrets... And I don't care if you think changing some numbers on some units is important because it makes one random Toss all-in out of a thousand less strong. Why even have an AMA if he can't answer any questions of substantial value? And besides, he did answer about their "secrets" although he answers like a politician. I find it pretty obvious from his answers that Blizzard thinks most of the core mechanics in SC2 are in a good state. Also, he said they won't risk changing anything fundamental unless it's "absolutely amazing" which means they won't change anything at all. So no, those questions were not a waste of time. Yes, he said that 5AMAs ago. Those are answers from 2011 and 2012. Why the fuck ask the same question again? It's a waste of time. He answered those things in the last AMA already, which was what, 2months ago. Yes, he answered like a politician. If he didn't, instead of 10page os "omg, he doesn't say anything"-bullshit, we'd now be reading through 100pages of "omg, they are going to introduce another splash unit for Protoss. Haven't they learned anything from the Colossus???????????????????" (assuming he reveals they have experimented with anything splash related). It would be even worse, even though the unit would not even make it into the game. That's why he rather says nothing that isn't at least 10% confirmed. You know, what's the safest scenario for blizzard: a) "yup, we will try a highground advantage for LotV" in 2014 - just that it may get cut again in 2015 b) "no, we heard you but we won't include highground advantages. We tried them, they are shit" in 2014 c) "we are trying it guys. But if it does not fit the game it won't make it in" in 2014 It's c). If they are not sure, they will not tell you. End of story. It makes the most sense.
TBF though, the deathball, economy, high ground, etc questions, are more "this is what we want! please implement!" sort of feedback rather then just honest questions. It's Blizzards failure to categorically state their position that makes this sort of feedback keep coming up. This time though, he was very clear IMO about most of those things. Still, questions in the form of "wishlist" will still crop up.
Like the situation with mech. One week they say "we want mech, we made new units to make it work" next week they say "we don't want mech, it's boring" and then back to "we want mech again". What the Hell is one supposed to think? They needed a new lead game designer after WOL IMO, someone with focus and a clear vision.
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On March 13 2014 23:29 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 23:00 Big J wrote:On March 13 2014 22:23 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:13 Big J wrote:On March 13 2014 22:09 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:07 Plansix wrote:On March 13 2014 22:02 Big J wrote:
Btw the real sad story is how the most stupid questions get upvoted on reddit. There were reasonable questions like about Mech TvP, what he thinks about Immortal allins in ZvP, what about the one or other specific unit.
You know, stuff where he could actually say something meaningful. Instead we get those "are there big chances coming, tell us everything about your companies secrets please". "Why don't you redesign the game in a patch" bullshit questions that have been asked before and are vague as shit. Agreed. The fact that he was asked the same questions as last time is a bummer. I would have liked to see someone beyond "are you guys getting rid of warpgate and force field yet?" Those questions are a lot more important than asking about some random all-in from Toss. I dont care if they are more important to you personally. They dont yield anything. It's a waste of time to ask a firm about it's secrets... And I don't care if you think changing some numbers on some units is important because it makes one random Toss all-in out of a thousand less strong. Why even have an AMA if he can't answer any questions of substantial value? And besides, he did answer about their "secrets" although he answers like a politician. I find it pretty obvious from his answers that Blizzard thinks most of the core mechanics in SC2 are in a good state. Also, he said they won't risk changing anything fundamental unless it's "absolutely amazing" which means they won't change anything at all. So no, those questions were not a waste of time. Yes, he said that 5AMAs ago. Those are answers from 2011 and 2012. Why the fuck ask the same question again? It's a waste of time. He answered those things in the last AMA already, which was what, 2months ago. Yes, he answered like a politician. If he didn't, instead of 10page os "omg, he doesn't say anything"-bullshit, we'd now be reading through 100pages of "omg, they are going to introduce another splash unit for Protoss. Haven't they learned anything from the Colossus???????????????????" (assuming he reveals they have experimented with anything splash related). It would be even worse, even though the unit would not even make it into the game. That's why he rather says nothing that isn't at least 10% confirmed. You know, what's the safest scenario for blizzard: a) "yup, we will try a highground advantage for LotV" in 2014 - just that it may get cut again in 2015 b) "no, we heard you but we won't include highground advantages. We tried them, they are shit" in 2014 c) "we are trying it guys. But if it does not fit the game it won't make it in" in 2014 It's c). If they are not sure, they will not tell you. End of story. It makes the most sense. TBF though, the deathball, economy, high ground, etc questions, are more "this is what we want! please implement!" sort of feedback rather then just honest questions. It's Blizzards failure to categorically state their position that makes this sort of feedback keep coming up. This time though, he was very clear IMO about most of those things. Still, questions in the form of "wishlist" will still crop up. Like the situation with mech. One week they say "we want mech, we made new units to make it work" next week they say "we don't want mech, it's boring" and then back to "we want mech again". What the Hell is one supposed to think? They needed a new lead game designer after WOL IMO, someone with focus and a clear vision.
Something potentially interesting is for David Kim to contrast the Starbow implementation of all these things with the Blizzard implementation. That would be productive probably, and give a clear idea of David Kim's true opinion. But of course he is not going to do that.
Blizzard hasn't really given any meaningful statements on Starbow's design outside of implying that it serves a purpose in giving part of the fan base what it desires, but they haven't said that this reflects in any way on Starcraft 2.
To be quite honest, someone in David Kim's position should be highly interested in Starbow. It's essentially an alternative approach to the game that he is responsible for and which calls into question many decisions that he has made in the past. From a professional perspective it should be fascinating, unless, of course, Blizzard has no real interest in making any significant changes to SC2 anymore.
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On March 13 2014 23:29 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 23:00 Big J wrote:On March 13 2014 22:23 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:13 Big J wrote:On March 13 2014 22:09 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:07 Plansix wrote:On March 13 2014 22:02 Big J wrote:
Btw the real sad story is how the most stupid questions get upvoted on reddit. There were reasonable questions like about Mech TvP, what he thinks about Immortal allins in ZvP, what about the one or other specific unit.
You know, stuff where he could actually say something meaningful. Instead we get those "are there big chances coming, tell us everything about your companies secrets please". "Why don't you redesign the game in a patch" bullshit questions that have been asked before and are vague as shit. Agreed. The fact that he was asked the same questions as last time is a bummer. I would have liked to see someone beyond "are you guys getting rid of warpgate and force field yet?" Those questions are a lot more important than asking about some random all-in from Toss. I dont care if they are more important to you personally. They dont yield anything. It's a waste of time to ask a firm about it's secrets... And I don't care if you think changing some numbers on some units is important because it makes one random Toss all-in out of a thousand less strong. Why even have an AMA if he can't answer any questions of substantial value? And besides, he did answer about their "secrets" although he answers like a politician. I find it pretty obvious from his answers that Blizzard thinks most of the core mechanics in SC2 are in a good state. Also, he said they won't risk changing anything fundamental unless it's "absolutely amazing" which means they won't change anything at all. So no, those questions were not a waste of time. Yes, he said that 5AMAs ago. Those are answers from 2011 and 2012. Why the fuck ask the same question again? It's a waste of time. He answered those things in the last AMA already, which was what, 2months ago. Yes, he answered like a politician. If he didn't, instead of 10page os "omg, he doesn't say anything"-bullshit, we'd now be reading through 100pages of "omg, they are going to introduce another splash unit for Protoss. Haven't they learned anything from the Colossus???????????????????" (assuming he reveals they have experimented with anything splash related). It would be even worse, even though the unit would not even make it into the game. That's why he rather says nothing that isn't at least 10% confirmed. You know, what's the safest scenario for blizzard: a) "yup, we will try a highground advantage for LotV" in 2014 - just that it may get cut again in 2015 b) "no, we heard you but we won't include highground advantages. We tried them, they are shit" in 2014 c) "we are trying it guys. But if it does not fit the game it won't make it in" in 2014 It's c). If they are not sure, they will not tell you. End of story. It makes the most sense. TBF though, the deathball, economy, high ground, etc questions, are more "this is what we want! please implement!" sort of feedback rather then just honest questions. It's Blizzards failure to categorically state their position that makes this sort of feedback keep coming up. This time though, he was very clear IMO about most of those things. Still, questions in the form of "wishlist" will still crop up. Like the situation with mech. One week they say "we want mech, we made new units to make it work" next week they say "we don't want mech, it's boring" and then back to "we want mech again". What the Hell is one supposed to think? They needed a new lead game designer after WOL IMO, someone with focus and a clear vision.
They never said: "we dont want mech, it's boring". That's another one of those problems with the AMAs. People read into it what they want to read into it. And then circlejerk it up until "that is what they said".
The comment you are referring to was something along the lines of "we don't want passive siege tank sitback play". Which is not the same as "we don't want siege tanks to be used" or even more "we don't want mech". There can be Mech without that aspect they don't want.
On March 13 2014 23:16 Nauseam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 23:00 Big J wrote:On March 13 2014 22:23 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:13 Big J wrote:On March 13 2014 22:09 Nauseam wrote:On March 13 2014 22:07 Plansix wrote:On March 13 2014 22:02 Big J wrote:
Btw the real sad story is how the most stupid questions get upvoted on reddit. There were reasonable questions like about Mech TvP, what he thinks about Immortal allins in ZvP, what about the one or other specific unit.
You know, stuff where he could actually say something meaningful. Instead we get those "are there big chances coming, tell us everything about your companies secrets please". "Why don't you redesign the game in a patch" bullshit questions that have been asked before and are vague as shit. Agreed. The fact that he was asked the same questions as last time is a bummer. I would have liked to see someone beyond "are you guys getting rid of warpgate and force field yet?" Those questions are a lot more important than asking about some random all-in from Toss. I dont care if they are more important to you personally. They dont yield anything. It's a waste of time to ask a firm about it's secrets... And I don't care if you think changing some numbers on some units is important because it makes one random Toss all-in out of a thousand less strong. Why even have an AMA if he can't answer any questions of substantial value? And besides, he did answer about their "secrets" although he answers like a politician. I find it pretty obvious from his answers that Blizzard thinks most of the core mechanics in SC2 are in a good state. Also, he said they won't risk changing anything fundamental unless it's "absolutely amazing" which means they won't change anything at all. So no, those questions were not a waste of time. Yes, he said that 5AMAs ago. Those are answers from 2011 and 2012. Why the fuck ask the same question again? It's a waste of time. He answered those things in the last AMA already, which was what, 2months ago. Yes, he answered like a politician. If he didn't, instead of 10page os "omg, he doesn't say anything"-bullshit, we'd now be reading through 100pages of "omg, they are going to introduce another splash unit for Protoss. Haven't they learned anything from the Colossus???????????????????" (assuming he reveals they have experimented with anything splash related). It would be even worse, even though the unit would not even make it into the game. That's why he rather says nothing that isn't at least 10% confirmed. You know, what's the safest scenario for blizzard: a) "yup, we will try a highground advantage for LotV" in 2014 - just that it may get cut again in 2015 b) "no, we heard you but we won't include highground advantages. We tried them, they are shit" in 2014 c) "we are trying it guys. But if it does not fit the game it won't make it in" in 2014 It's c). If they are not sure, they will not tell you. End of story. It makes the most sense. People ask those questions over and over cause they are the most important ones hoping that Blizzard might have taken a new stance on them. Quite easy to understand. But if you wanna see him answer some questions about how he is gonna tweak some numbers on a unit which does little to nothing to actually CHANGE the game it's fine I suppose. Most people wanna see some real answers to the big questions though. You are defeating your own arguments with your example. Why even have an AMA in the first place if they can't answer anything really? Only thing they accomplish with AMA's like this one is lowering the confidence the SC2 community has in Blizzard. They don't "calm the community", they do the exact opposite of it. People have high standards in a Blizzard title. They don't accept SC2 or Diablo3 just being good. It's supposed to be "fucking amazing cause it's Blizzard". If SC2 or Diablo3 were released by some random company I guarantee you that the amount of whine would be a fraction of what it is today and has been since their releases.
OK, keep talking. What's a real answer as you put it to:
Q: Are any "large scale" or "mechanic" redesigns being considering for Legacy of the Void? For example considering changing mechanics around high ground advantage, the soft 3 base income cap, warpgate, etc?
give an example.
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On March 13 2014 22:10 reapsen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 21:46 Foxxan wrote:Though i didnt really understand what you meant with To completely rework most new units or even cut them alltogether in a beta phase just blows my mind on so many levels. But you dont have to answer that, i agreed on the bolded parts so your point got across I am a software engineer myself and getting a piece of software in a beta test, typically means it is full-featured and you want to test the technical aspects, i.e. if its bug-free, if it sustains higher loads and maybe have a few adjustments (hotfixes) on your features based on customer feedback. If you transfer this over to starcraft, which is also nothing else but a piece of software, the beta phase (especially the HotS) Beta showed complete removals of units (warhound), complete reworking of units (oracle, widow mine, mothership core, ... ) and the changes/removal of spells and abilities (ultraliks charge fore example) which are integral feature changes. That should not be part of a beta! It just emitts what i mentioned in the previous post, that there is no plan or vision what the game in its final state should look like. Publishing videos on your own convention (Blizzcon 2011) and then have almost none of the promoted changes in the final product is just another indicator that they have no inherent clue how to design the multiplayer part and all the results come from the trial-and-error approach. I speculate that they pursue design-ideas almost entirely on the "awesomeness-factor" rather if they fit the global plan/vision of how the game should be in its final state. By the way, i really would like to express that i think, that the game is technically crafted well from a software engineering standpoint. In this regard Blizzard always delivers flawless products.
You are a software engineer, but not a game designer. A game, especially a mostly multiplayer focused game has a lot different requirements than the typical software solutions you would develop for a customer.
You want the game to be "fun" and "entertaining", but no matter how well you plan or research, you can never be sure your ideas work out. And creating a fun experience is most often not the result of careful planning, but by throwing around wild ideas and testing them through trial and error. So extensive playtesting is important more than anything else. And doing so in the beta provides Blizzard with a lot more feedback and experience than they'd ever get through their internal tests.
It may be true that Blizzard has no grand "plan" or "vision", but it might be because they have realized that stubbornly following your own plan and vision and creating a game that is played exactly the way you want it to be played may not lead to an enjoyable experience, and that they can use us players to provide them with feedback to make the game better for everyone.
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On March 13 2014 23:06 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 10:57 Headnoob wrote:
He should run for office, not many people can so so little in so many words.
Starbow is a wonderful alternative that's being so utterly ignored. Seeing how the SC2 scene is currently streets ahead of the Starbow scene almost makes me want to begin a Kickstarter or Indiegogo campaign to raise funds for a huge Starbow Starleague.
This is actually a great idea. Try to see if SB devs would like to help you 
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On March 13 2014 23:05 reapsen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 22:45 lolmanpro wrote:On March 13 2014 22:10 reapsen wrote:
I am a software engineer myself and getting a piece of software in a beta test, typically means it is full-featured and you want to test the technical aspects, i.e. if its bug-free, if it sustains higher loads and maybe have a few adjustments (hotfixes) on your features based on customer feedback.
If you transfer this over to starcraft, which is also nothing else but a piece of software, the beta phase (especially the HotS) Beta showed complete removals of units (warhound), complete reworking of units (oracle, widow mine, mothership core, ... ) and the changes/removal of spells and abilities (ultraliks charge fore example) which are integral feature changes.
That should not be part of a beta! It just emitts what i mentioned in the previous post, that there is no plan or vision what the game in its final state should look like.
Publishing videos on your own convention (Blizzcon 2011) and then have almost none of the promoted changes in the final product is just another indicator that they have no inherent clue how to design the multiplayer part and all the results come from the trial-and-error approach.
I speculate that they pursue design-ideas almost entirely on the "awesomeness-factor" rather if they fit the global plan/vision of how the game should be in its final state.
By the way, i really would like to express that i think, that the game is technically crafted well from a software engineering standpoint. In this regard Blizzard always delivers flawless products. I agree, Blizzard is absolutely clueless when it comes to designing a multiplayer game. They just have no idea what they are doing, and whenever they make a change it's just something they randomly made up. No instead they should program a perfectly thought out game inside their studio and not release it until it's utterly complete and final form, that's how great multiplayer games are made, unlike all the multiplayer game failures like Starcraft 2 that Blizzard usually release. You should send them your ideas along with your CV, a great "software engineer" like you might just be what Blizzard need to be able to finally make good multiplayer games again. Yeah, you totally missed my point, which is that the sc2 game designers lack a vision of the finished product. Alot of really great games have a visionary game designer, who has the game thoughtout in its basics before development even begins, i am talking here about people like Peter Molyneux, John Carmac, Sid Meier, etc. (and to some extend IceFrog). Those carry the idea who the final product should look like and push the development in this direction. This does not mean, that they have the perfect game in their heads right from the start, of course balance changes will always be necessary in the development process. I don't see that vision in the development sc2 took until now... Nice try in a sarcastic approach tho...
A lot of great games might have a visionary game designer behind them, but a lot of great game don't have one. Since you talk about Carmack, I shall remind you that the initial "vision" of Carmack and Romero concerning Quake have absolutly nothing to do with what was released a few years later (the result was an awesome game). I can say the same thing about Age of Empires (the designers moved away from their initial concept after playing Warcraft 2 because it was way more fun) or even StarCraft (they restarted the game almost from scratch because of very bad feedback at E3 in 1996).
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On March 13 2014 23:06 Calthrash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 22:31 Spaylz wrote:
If they were to release or even work on WC4, it would be after SC2 is done and starts going (more) downhill. But even by the time that happens (which I suspect won't be too long from after LotV's release), WoW will still be there. The new expansion, Warlords of Draenor, is probably going to be released roughly at the same time as LotV. Again, they said they have 2 o 3 more expansions already lined up for WoW. For WC4 to ever come, they need to either wrap up the WoW part of the storyline, or do some kind of weird alternate time line with the game.
I don't agree with your time frames at all. I think its almost 100% certain LotV will not come out this year since they have not even started hyping it up. I'd say its going to be in Q3 or Q4 next year at earliest, could even be later. Warlords of Draenor is pretty much confirmed for this year though and I'd guess its going to be released around october-ish.
Earlier in my post, I added a (?) before the release of LotV, because I am unsure about it. Regarding WoD, Blizzard recently stated they planned it for 9 months from now, I think. I saw that somewhere in the TL WoD thread...
In any case, I think they'd like to release LotV in 2015, and it doesn't refute my point that WC4 is long, long ways away.
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Saying so few with so many words is an art in itself
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On March 13 2014 22:45 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 22:43 S1eth wrote:On March 13 2014 22:14 Tyrhanius wrote:
The problem is DK try to do as few changes as possible. But patchs are not important just for balance. Patchs are what increase the lengthtime of the game.
If you look at LOL/Dota2, they patch heroes, release new one. Each new season brings a new meta, different ways to play, and it's what keep players on the game, and make the game popular.
But on SC2 we have a minor patch each 3 months. And they don't bring new ways to play or make them more entertaining.
And if you look at HOTS patch history they have nearly only nerf OP stuff.
They only add no real content to the game, making the number of viewers to decrease, but they take very long to patch some broken stuff.
They act like they don't want to recognize something is too strong or they've made a mistake, so they let the thing a lot of time ("we wait the players learn to play to see if it needs a change").
And after they're blocked. Deathball toss are too strong, but Zerg has learn the only way to deal with it is to never engage it, and slowly kill it with SH. same with the new mech (due to DK's buff of raven/tank/banshee).
So they say the game are too long and sometimes boring, but if they nerf SH, they would crush balance because zerg wouldn't be able to win in late. So they can't really nerf SH now, beacause they haven't fixed the issue of lategame Toss when we have reported them.
Or DK makes 3-6 months to fix something obviously imbalance. Is it some nerf players wasn't asking for months he made ? Hellbats drops, WM, buff ghost, MSC nerf, etc... All the things he has done is waiting the longer he can before making something which has to be done, or make insignifiant change, or broken one's("hey it would be could if oracle are as fast as a mutalisk and kill a mineral line just when you press a touch"). If you could stop comparing a boxed copy RTS game with free-to-play MOBA games and could point out an RTS game maker that does a better job at patching/expanding their games than Blizzard does, that's be nice. Why? No point cuz every rts we have are bad
I disagree, as Forged Alliance is as good as anything out there including SC2
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On March 14 2014 01:00 Topdoller wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 22:45 Foxxan wrote:On March 13 2014 22:43 S1eth wrote:On March 13 2014 22:14 Tyrhanius wrote:
The problem is DK try to do as few changes as possible. But patchs are not important just for balance. Patchs are what increase the lengthtime of the game.
If you look at LOL/Dota2, they patch heroes, release new one. Each new season brings a new meta, different ways to play, and it's what keep players on the game, and make the game popular.
But on SC2 we have a minor patch each 3 months. And they don't bring new ways to play or make them more entertaining.
And if you look at HOTS patch history they have nearly only nerf OP stuff.
They only add no real content to the game, making the number of viewers to decrease, but they take very long to patch some broken stuff.
They act like they don't want to recognize something is too strong or they've made a mistake, so they let the thing a lot of time ("we wait the players learn to play to see if it needs a change").
And after they're blocked. Deathball toss are too strong, but Zerg has learn the only way to deal with it is to never engage it, and slowly kill it with SH. same with the new mech (due to DK's buff of raven/tank/banshee).
So they say the game are too long and sometimes boring, but if they nerf SH, they would crush balance because zerg wouldn't be able to win in late. So they can't really nerf SH now, beacause they haven't fixed the issue of lategame Toss when we have reported them.
Or DK makes 3-6 months to fix something obviously imbalance. Is it some nerf players wasn't asking for months he made ? Hellbats drops, WM, buff ghost, MSC nerf, etc... All the things he has done is waiting the longer he can before making something which has to be done, or make insignifiant change, or broken one's("hey it would be could if oracle are as fast as a mutalisk and kill a mineral line just when you press a touch"). If you could stop comparing a boxed copy RTS game with free-to-play MOBA games and could point out an RTS game maker that does a better job at patching/expanding their games than Blizzard does, that's be nice. Why? No point cuz every rts we have are bad I disagree, as Forged Alliance is as good as anything out there including SC2
Part of me has been tempted to buy Command and Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars or wait until Age of Mythology: Extended Edition to come out on Steam to get my RTS fix.
I hated Company of Heroes and pretty much uninstalled it two hours in, I feel like Age of Empires II is badly designed from a balance and gameplay standpoint and has netcode too piss-poor for competitive play and I absolutely despise iCCup so Brood War is out of the question.
I no longer have faith in David Kim as a game designer and I feel like he should have been fired eighteen months ago. The 1.4.3 Balance Update I would have been willing to forgive if he admitted two or three months in that it was a terrible mistake and revoked it but 5 range Queens are still present now.
I also love how he doesn't see TvP as problematic when Protoss can defend any sort of one base or two base aggression that comes out from the Terran player thanks to the Mothership Core. This has rendered most aggressive builds from Terran absolutely obsolete, even when beforehand all Protoss needed to do was scout, prepare and micro accordingly with passably good forcefields.
And don't get me started on the Oracle buff... Jesus H. Christ that was a terrible idea and it pretty much exclaims the fact that you require Missile Turrets in your bases by the 6 - 7 minute mark else you outright get instagibbed by something that does 30DPS to light.
He needs to seriously stop ignoring every concern. I feel like this AMA was just him dodging question after question after question.
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EPT
