EPTPlease stop trying to stuff it down viewers throats.
O'Gaming/Millenium/aAa and ESL dispute French stream for W…
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
Please stop trying to stuff it down viewers throats. | ||
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Bastosai
France23 Posts
I understand Blizzard & ESL position to respect Twitch exclusivity, however, with SC2 viewership being a bit unstable these day, keeping out a part of the french community seems a bit strange. You could imagine that organization would be more flexible regarding these. I do hope they find an agreement, because disregarding a community that did gave a back a bit to the game (IronSquid, Stephano) is never good in the long run. | ||
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Cinim
Denmark866 Posts
On February 15 2014 06:57 Norz wrote: This is typical french to refuse to adapt to english though. I do agree they kinda have a point, but it's so typical of them, really annoys me. Also dailymotion is really, REALLY terrible. ?? In most of Europe, Dailymotion is a WAY better player than Twitch tv is..... twitch is garbage and it should be everyones obligation to try and cut them down and give them competition until they actually step up their shit... | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On February 17 2014 02:09 Cinim wrote: ?? In most of Europe, Dailymotion is a WAY better player than Twitch tv is..... twitch is garbage and it should be everyones obligation to try and cut them down and give them competition until they actually step up their shit... If they are that great then maybe dailymotion should become a partner for WCS so conflicts like these won't be a problem? I don't think bashing a competing platform is gonna accomplish that. | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
To all the people pointing the finger at ESL, READ: http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/about/shoutcasters "The shoutcaster must receive permission from the tournament broadcast partner" As Twitch is the official tournament broadcast partner for WCS it is likely THEY who are holding the stance of "broadcast on twitch or GTFO". They have no doubt paid a fair sum to Blizzard for this exclusivity and thus you cannot blame them for standing their ground. Carmac also states that: "he conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue." Hinting that negotiations are not closed regarding other platforms. This makes Ogaming looks pretty bad with their posts. Finally, "Iknowthetrue" - you seem to have made a lot of blanket statements from "inside sources". Pretty dubious when you have a grand total of nine posts and bring no substance to back up your claims. | ||
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Asukero
France2 Posts
This is my first post here, I’m fan of sc2 from france and i'd like to share with you the post that made the french caster Anoss from ogamingTv on his facebook page in french. I've tried to translate it in english so I’d like to apologize in advance for the possible mistakes i could have made. Hi guys ! i'd like to make a statement on #WcsEnFrancais. To answer about some of the real problems that prevent us to move forward in the development of Starcaft 2. I knowk that some of you think the official statements are a bit vague which may create a misunderstanding of the assistance requested. I will, on my own behalf, explain in more detail the issues encountered in france First of all, the wcs were launched 9 months ago. At this time, the wcs have been attributed to aAa who was among the largest french organizations (Millenium-Ogaming-aAa), the one with the least potential to make a large) number of viewers (traffic site decreasing, junior casters). It was a first choice from ESL hard to understand but accepted. aAa made his way but they stopped the broadcast for several reasons : the audiences were not enough, the casters were taken apart from the viewers (" why it's not Pomf and thud who's casting ro Yogo/Lewellis ?") and the financial income were null. All of this led to the end of the cast while the wcs is the best sc2 competition. Unthinkable.. The first lesson to take is from this period is that streaming on twitch for french organization is not possible for two reasons : some french internet providers don't allow their customers to see streams on twitch and the cpm is very low in france. The second point is that France is big consumer of starcraft2 with an established scene. So it appears normal that france should have a french stream to represent it. So it was necessary to find a solution. That's why we (ogamingTv) started discussions with the ESL for the competition could be casted by the whole french scene (Ogaming and Millenium casting and a representation of aAa casters). It led us to the first issue : we need Dailymotion to make a high quality stream for the event. And that's the problem, we've never been able to negotiate anything. And i mean no step or solutions were proposed by the ESL, no dynamics to find solution popped out. So we waited. On the paper, solutions seems to exist, a large clause precises that it is to not stream on twitch (http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/about/shoutcasters) if an agreement is found between the two parts. At the same period, ESL took the decision to not share any games replays which hurted the quality of our youtube channel but we accepted it. Seeing that the issue wasn't turning in our favor, we kept starting new others projects like Underdogs (a tournement low/top french sc2 players only) for exemple. But there is an issue too wit h it because Lilbow (french protoss) has to play his wcs matches the same night than the Underdogs finals live from the Meltdown bar... And this is where we are today, this call to the community. I have personnaly the impression to walk sideways for 6 months. We didn't achieve any discussion about findings solutions or agreements for the WCS french cast being awesome and enjoyable as it should be. It's harder and harder to get good quality replays. Our side-projects are shorted by the most beautiful competition whi ch are the WCS. So, undertake new in projects in starcraft 2 is getting harder and harder and with the little slump that the game is going through, it really need some. In my opinion, i don't understand anymore. I can only, even with OgamingTv, offer you small/medium projects and even with those ones we are taking some risks (Underdogs), whereas we have the f eeling that the french scene wants us to move, to create more stuff, to continue to have fun with starcraft 2 I hope some of you will understand better the issues that led us to the situation. Good evening to all and see you soon. Yann "Anoss" Lotte And also, Thud co-founder of OgamingTv answered to this article in french (http://www.inesportwetrust.com/pas-de-stream-en-francais-des-wcs-sur-dailymotion/) who takes the defense of the ESL and this is what he said : You make suppositions which are inacurrate Roggaaaj (author of the article). At the end of 2013, we made the WCS S3 Toronto finals with a dual stream dailymotion/twitch. And there was no problem, because it was the NASL who produced the competition, not ESL. The truth is more complex. Ask you the question : why the NASL allows a fren dual stream of the WCS, and the ESL refuses ? By the way, this is not only a problem of money like you said I’m my opinion, I’m sad of the lack communication between the two parts since the whole story popped out. There's been a lot of discussions and not a lot of solution. As a french viewer, i enjoy both french and english casts. I like the english casts because some casters got a huge knowledge about the game and i like french casts because french casters have great personalities and they are very entertaining. | ||
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klup
France612 Posts
I have followed a lot of Ogaming on Dailymotion and the stream is almost with no flaw in high quality. Sure I enjoy the english cast , but the french casters are very entertaining to watch. Also I would like to remind everyone that for any big competition before WCS system like the 2012 MLG and so on French stream was almost always the second one behind the english one because of the quality of the french commentatory team. I personally did not watch SC2 so much now because of the insanely bad quality of Twitch in France. I hope ESL people will be reasonable on this and allow French to watch WCS on Dailymotion with our favorite commentators. Meltdown barcraft, Ironsquid, NationWars. We are one of the strongest active community on that game don't let us down, not now. | ||
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On February 16 2014 23:18 iknowthetrue wrote: For those who are against the fact that twitch to the monopoly of wcs. For those who want a French stream. For those who want the sc2 community survive. For all that must be reacted blizzard and esl. I suggest boycotting ESL stream and watch Take.tv For all those who say they do not understand German, then you understand why the French community want a French stream. Abhorrent English aside... On February 16 2014 23:18 iknowthetrue wrote: For those who are against the fact that twitch to the monopoly of wcs. "Twitch monopoly of wcs" is called having business partners. It's an agreement considered mutually beneficial that the parties involved have made prior to the start of the WCS Season I'd assume. On February 16 2014 23:18 iknowthetrue wrote: For those who want a French stream. You are implying that no French organization has the ability to stream on Twitch.tv. This is objectively false. That they choose not to, regardless as to the reason why, is their own decision and they should very much deal with the consequences, as should anyone who chooses to exclusively support these organizations over other similar ones providing the same kind of content. On February 16 2014 23:18 iknowthetrue wrote: For those who want the sc2 community survive. Yes, because someone who is mad on the internet that they can't have their way streaming in a language I'd assume less than 5% of the community speaks to any extent is going to doom us all. How pathetically sensationalist. On February 16 2014 23:18 iknowthetrue wrote: I suggest boycotting ESL stream and watch Take.tv For all those who say they do not understand German, then you understand why the French community want a French stream. You are implying that either German or French as languages are as relevant as English is to the general SC2 community. This is, once again, objectively false, no matter how you feel about the issue. The reason most of the content being produced is in English is because English is the language understood by most of the game's audience. There is nothing preventing French (or other nationality / language) organizations from streaming in French (or, again, other languages) other than having to abide by the regulations provided here and imposed by the organizers of the WCS. One of such rules implies streaming on the platform Twitch.tv. tl;dr: There are clear set rules. French organization does not want to respect these rules. French organization is not given clearance to broadcast their content. French organization is mad. I don't see why this is such a big deal. On February 17 2014 02:09 Cinim wrote: ?? In most of Europe, Dailymotion is a WAY better player than Twitch tv is..... twitch is garbage and it should be everyones obligation to try and cut them down and give them competition until they actually step up their shit... Funny you should say that, I've had nothing but terrible experiences with Dailymotion (disconnecting randomly every few minutes) whereas issues with Twitch have cleared up recently and were never that prevalent to begin with. So in my opinion, DM is absolutely garbage whereas Twitch is fine.  | ||
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kurosu_
France46 Posts
On the other hand, it has been more than a year that correct twitch clients have been available for non-desktop environments. There are even better alternatives (<3 vortex) than the official one. I haven't found any for DM. Having only a DM stream would be a step back for me. But on the other hand, dual stream is probably the best, to leave it up to the final user, as long as everyone plays fair. I don't see anything of the like in the current discussion, with the French casters wording their initial statement in an incomplete, pitchfork-ready, way, and twitch buying their position instead of letting the users (streamers and spectator) pick the best (but that's called advertisement and promotion). | ||
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crashonly
Finland418 Posts
On February 17 2014 22:41 klup wrote: I can attest what Anoss saying, A lot of french providers are deliberately reducing the traffic of Twitch. Like, what the hell :o Sounds like a good opportunity for french people to start voting with their wallets. I mean really it's the ISPs fault then, not twitch or ESL. I don't know about how it is in france, but at least in finland the ISPs have always been at eachothers throats and if you are not happy with your ISP you can change it and get a good deal from a competing ISP that doesn't cost you money (sometimes you may even save money instead). I get that it makes sense for ESL to partner up with twitch, since it's the giant in streaming nowadays and so they can most likely reach the most people. If twitch just doesn't cut it in some countries, then I agree that they should make allowances for other streaming services to be used in those countries instead. But now you're telling me it's really a bunch of french companies pissing on twitch and making it unwatchable there.. I am not surprised if twitch isn't super happy about letting DailyMotion take over if that is the case. Change your ISP people, get them out of business. | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
Unless I'm mistaken Blizzard didn't specify anything in their rules, so it's must be on ESL side. | ||
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On February 17 2014 23:30 Otolia wrote: Do the ESL have any rights to force anything upon potential broadcasters ? Unless I'm mistaken Blizzard didn't specify anything in their rules, so it's must be on ESL side. The shoutcaster must receive permission from the tournament broadcast partner; | ||
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
Oh wait, they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dailymotion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_(telecommunications) | ||
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VieuxSinge
France231 Posts
On February 17 2014 00:39 ch33psh33p wrote: Dailymotion is disgusting as a streaming platform. Please stop trying to stuff it down viewers throats. While dailymotion's website is not very clear nor functional, dailymotion's HD stream always works way better than twitch's For once, I'm tired of twitch being the one and only streaming platform for e-sport | ||
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coyote37
France150 Posts
French scene have all my support! plz find suitable solution asap! cheers. coyote | ||
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On February 17 2014 23:56 VieuxSinge wrote: While dailymotion's website is not very clear nor functional, dailymotion's HD stream always works way better than twitch's For once, I'm tired of twitch being the one and only streaming platform for e-sport I can watch streams on Twitch in HD quality with minimal lag, there used to be short periods of time where I'd get some disgusting lag, but those were fairly few and far between to be honest. That said, I cannot watch DailyMotion because of incessant stuttering, and being told (in my own language, which is fairly weird, but nevermind) that there's a connection issue or something else of the sort every several minutes. I think people need to realize that not everyone experiences these platforms in the same way (re: people who are pretending that dailymotion is the second coming of jesus) and that ISPs and their policies (especially those that you as a consumer are never told about, hint hint) do impact your internet experience. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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SinCitta
Germany2127 Posts
On February 17 2014 23:34 Broodwurst wrote: Sounds like dailymotion is owned by a french provider haha. Oh wait, they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dailymotion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_(telecommunications) Orange has also succesfully waylaid Google. Google pays for Orange customers being able to use Youtube with a better service. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/17/google_orange With Orange owning Dailymotion they have no incentive of improving the connection to Twitch as unsatisfied customers will use Dailymotion instead. Now, who is the monopolist and who isn't? | ||
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