EPTO'Gaming/Millenium/aAa and ESL dispute French stream for W…
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Omnishroud
1073 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
Twitch is a partner of WCS, so it isn't surprising that WCS streams outside of Twitch are not allowed... Complains should've been voiced when that partnership has been announced and to the parties involved in this decision. Complains now are a little bit late, and ESL is certainly not the right organization to complain to. | ||
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Grovbolle
Denmark3822 Posts
"We want free content we can monetize" | ||
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On February 15 2014 21:48 Grovbolle wrote: Basically the french community/sites saying: "We want free content we can monetize" That and probably, what I wrote in other thread, that they are bound by contract with DM. They've been in negotiations with ESL up to the last moment, negotiations went sour, so they try sending pitchfork mob at ESL using, what it seems to be, a blatant lie and ask people to spread it even further. | ||
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cortesmaltose
France8 Posts
On February 15 2014 21:48 Grovbolle wrote: Basically the french community/sites saying: "We want free content we can monetize" Seriously reading this makes me just sick : can't you get that O'Gaming TV and Millenium TV are just barely surviving ? As I said before, if they had been using Twitch for their broadcasts, they would have just disappeared ! Maintaining a WebTV costs money : you have to pay the people who are dedicating their time for that. So to survive you need at least to cover your costs. O'Gaming and Millenium both have studios and pro people working for them. This costs a lot but they have been able to do it thanks to Dailymotion which has been a great support. I get the argument that Blizzard and Twitch signed an agreement. But the question is : do you want to have the largest audience possible and the best shows possible or you prefer to maintain a monopoly ? The french WebTVs are just saying that if they are forced to use Twitch they won't do it because it wouldn't allow them to cover their costs. aAaTV used to run the french WCS stream but they weren't paid for that : people were dedicating their free time to make it happen. Now they are just saying we won't do it anymore for free. With Riot or Valve they don't have these kind of troubles and they have every week at least 10'000 people watching LCS on their channels. Now it is Blizzard's choice : either you try to understand this or you just lose the french speaking community... I just want to remind you that the only time Millenium and O'Gaming were allowed to run a Dailymotion stream for the WCS 9000 french people were watching the show : is it something you want to see happen again or you think SC2 is doing so well at the moment that you just don't care ? | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:23 cortesmaltose wrote: Seriously reading this makes me just sick : can't you get that O'Gaming TV and Millenium TV are just barely surviving ? As I said before, if they had been using Twitch for their broadcasts, they would have just disappeared ! Maintaining a WebTV costs money : you have to pay the people who are dedicating their time for that. So to survive you need at least to cover your costs. O'Gaming and Millenium both have studios and pro people working for them. This costs a lot but they have been able to do it thanks to Dailymotion which has been a great support. I get the argument that Blizzard and Twitch signed an agreement. But the question is : do you want to have the largest audience possible and the best shows possible or you prefer to maintain a monopoly ? The french WebTVs are just saying that if they are forced to use Twitch they won't do it because it wouldn't allow them to cover their costs. aAaTV used to run the french WCS stream but they weren't paid for that : people were dedicating their free time to make it happen. Now they are just saying we won't do it anymore for free. With Riot or Valve they don't have these kind of troubles and they have every week at least 10'000 people watching LCS on their channels. Now it is Blizzard's choice : either you try to understand this or you just lose the french speaking community... I just want to remind you that the only time Millenium and O'Gaming were allowed to run a Dailymotion stream for the WCS 9000 french people were watching the show : is it something you want to see happen again or you think SC2 is doing so well at the moment that you just don't care ? Whatever you or I want now does not matter, because the partnership is signed. One can debate whether it is reasonable to continue it in the next year, but for now the partnership is fixed. Personally, for me it depends on what Twitch is offering, I wouldn't say that a partnership is bad per se. Also please don't complain about O'GamingTV's and MilleniumTV'S financial situation. Everybody is in the same boat and complaining just makes them look like whiny bitches which I am sure they are not. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:23 cortesmaltose wrote: Seriously reading this makes me just sick : can't you get that O'Gaming TV and Millenium TV are just barely surviving ? As I said before, if they had been using Twitch for their broadcasts, they would have just disappeared ! Maintaining a WebTV costs money : you have to pay the people who are dedicating their time for that. So to survive you need at least to cover your costs. O'Gaming and Millenium both have studios and pro people working for them. This costs a lot but they have been able to do it thanks to Dailymotion which has been a great support. I get the argument that Blizzard and Twitch signed an agreement. But the question is : do you want to have the largest audience possible and the best shows possible or you prefer to maintain a monopoly ? The french WebTVs are just saying that if they are forced to use Twitch they won't do it because it wouldn't allow them to cover their costs. aAaTV used to run the french WCS stream but they weren't paid for that : people were dedicating their free time to make it happen. Now they are just saying we won't do it anymore for free. With Riot or Valve they don't have these kind of troubles and they have every week at least 10'000 people watching LCS on their channels. Now it is Blizzard's choice : either you try to understand this or you just lose the french speaking community... I just want to remind you that the only time Millenium and O'Gaming were allowed to run a Dailymotion stream for the WCS 9000 french people were watching the show : is it something you want to see happen again or you think SC2 is doing so well at the moment that you just don't care ? Ogaming and Mill barely surviving ? Who are you kidding lol. Millinium is the biggest e-sport based website in France, and the 2nd one after TL regarding SC2. They earn MUCH more money with ads than with the stream. Ogaming is also so diversified SC2 is just one of the branch of a huge tree. Ogaming is just a fucking greedy company that privilege money over quality. No wonder why there are tons of "P&T" casted games with thousands of view on Youtube, these casts being really poorly made. | ||
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rnst
Germany42 Posts
If they (O'Gaming TV and Millenium TV) are in such a bad financial situation, maybe they should consider to switch over to LoL? More viewers = more money. Because if they are so professional as you say they are it's not making any sense to me to base their whole business model into being allowed to stream some content (in this case WCS) without having any rights/contracts on it. That's like having one client but you never know if you will get an assignment or not because the client has other companies (in the same field of business) working for him as well. Don't you see that this is just bad business? Or looking at it in another way, they were doing it for free (as a hobby) and then made a business out of it without having any clue if it could work. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On February 15 2014 23:00 rnst wrote: If they (O'Gaming TV and Millenium TV) are in such a bad financial situation, maybe they should consider to switch over to LoL? More viewers = more money. Because if they are so professional as you say they are it's not making any sense to me to base their whole business model into being allowed to stream some content (in this case WCS) without having any rights/contracts on it. That's like having one client but you never know if you will get an assignment or not because the client has other companies (in the same field of business) working for him as well. Don't you see that this is just bad business? Or looking at it in another way, they were doing it for free (as a hobby) and then made a business out of it without having any clue if it could work. They are not in bad financial situation, and they DO stream LoL, DotA2, etc.. | ||
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Aeromi
France14463 Posts
On February 15 2014 23:00 rnst wrote: @cortesmaltose If they (O'Gaming TV and Millenium TV) are in such a bad financial situation, maybe they should consider to switch over to LoL? More viewers = more money. Because if they are so professional as you say they are it's not making any sense to me to base their whole business model into being allowed to stream some content (in this case WCS) without having any rights/contracts on it. That's like having one client but you never know if you will get an assignment or not because the client has other companies (in the same field of business) working for him as well. Don't you see that this is just bad business? Or looking at it in another way, they were doing it for free (as a hobby) and then made a business out of it without having any clue if it could work. Millenium cast LCS Europe and NA. O'GamingTV cast OGN/LCS Europe and sometimes LCS NA. | ||
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rnst
Germany42 Posts
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Maniak_
France305 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:56 Faust852 wrote: Ogaming and Mill barely surviving ? Who are you kidding lol. Millinium is the biggest e-sport based website in France, and the 2nd one after TL regarding SC2. They earn MUCH more money with ads than with the stream. Ogaming is also so diversified SC2 is just one of the branch of a huge tree. Ogaming is just a fucking greedy company that privilege money over quality. No wonder why there are tons of "P&T" casted games with thousands of view on Youtube, these casts being really poorly made. You should be ashamed of trying to kill this useless drama-mongering with your facts. After all, the future of the *entire* french community and the survival of all SC2-related french companies is in the balance. They should not have to follow the same rules as everyone else. Not letting them do what they want would be like drowning kittens in a pool of their own blood. *sigh* | ||
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iknowthetrue
13 Posts
Ogaming Millenium and can stream wcs on dailymotion if they want . But whether on stream twitch or dailymotion , Ogaming and Millennium must have the permission of ESL . And that is the problem. Ogaming and Millenium want stream on dailymotion because they lose money on using twitch more and France twich lag to death. As neither blizzard nor imposes no twitch twitch except for the stream on ESL . Knowing that Ogaming and Millenium lose money on twitch and twitch lag in France , knowing that all this does ultimately that hurt the sc2 scene , why impose ESL seen twitch despite all this? Ask yourself this question . ESL says it does not prevent Ogamin and millenium stream of wcs , but all the same back that prevent stream . And once or twitch or blizzard requires ESL prevent Ogamin and millenium of stream on dailymotion , only ESL decided that. | ||
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JahVidi
France8 Posts
"Should the tournament organizer wish to broadcast the tournament online, our preferred streaming partner is Twitch; however, you are free to stream on whichever online platform you like;" So, where is the problem if French caster stream on Dailymotion ? EDIT : Ok, after more searsh, found this : http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/about/shoutcasters "The shoutcaster must receive permission from the tournament broadcast partner" | ||
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miniskirt
France487 Posts
On February 16 2014 00:39 JahVidi wrote: http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/sc2-tournament.html "Should the tournament organizer wish to broadcast the tournament online, our preferred streaming partner is Twitch; however, you are free to stream on whichever online platform you like;" So, where is the problem if French caster stream on Dailymotion ? according to kerri: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations streaming on twitch isn't the problem (from reddit) they've been trying to stream WCS for 9 months according to Carmac: OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult Kerri is the one that came forward to expose this business issue to the community eye, they have to expose proof for their accusation towards ESL forbidding french organizations otherwise they'll lose complete credibility both parties need to come forward and explain the reason a french WCS is not happening, so far, none have provided anything bar drama | ||
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Neonico
France24 Posts
With most of the biggest french internet providers (mainly Orange and Free) it's almost impossible to watch streams on Twitch correctly. It's mainly due to the policy of those providers regardin google ads, as far as i know. That's why some content on DailyMotion remains important for french SC2 lovers. | ||
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Maniak_
France305 Posts
On February 16 2014 01:57 Neonico wrote: There is something that people outside of France don't realise : With most of the biggest french internet providers (mainly Orange and Free) it's almost impossible to watch streams on Twitch correctly. It's mainly due to the policy of those providers regardin google ads, as far as i know. Watching streams on Twitch has been almost impossible for the same reason it was crap basically anywhere in Europe. Recently it's been a *lot* better (as in currently IEM in Source without a single problem, same with any other stream/twitch video/whatever I tried the past few weeks). There are peering issues with Google/YouTube (maybe also resolved? It seems better lately), but Twitch has only been as crappy in France as in the rest of Europe (granted it lasted a loooooooooong time). But for now, at last, no more need for a VPN. So no, this is not a valid reason (anymore). | ||
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v_lm
France202 Posts
On February 15 2014 21:48 Grovbolle wrote: Basically the french community/sites saying: "We want free content we can monetize" You obviously don't get french at all :D | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
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