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On February 18 2014 00:17 Plansix wrote:
The Olympics are broadcast on NBC. Only one network gets to broadcast the Super Bowl. Business deals between leagues and broadcasters are part if the business of producing content. I'm sure twitch doesn't work perfectly everywhere in the world, but that is the nature of the beast. If daily motion wants to broadcast WCS in France, they need to work out a deal wih blizzard. They can't just use another service and say "we like this one better" and expect Blizzard and twitch to be ok with it.
no u guys, esl are teh evilz and we need community support (whatever that means) !!!!111
Again though, I don't see why this is a big deal. If you don't agree to the terms imposed upon you by the organizers, you don't get to broadcast your content involving the organizers' tournament, simple as that.
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Lol dailymotion is owned by a French Internet provider! No wonder twitch runs like shit in France, but daily motion runs great. And the best part is people blaming Twich when they are likely getting screwed over by their own ISP.
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That something like this happens was obvious from the moment we first saw the WCS conditions that were plagued with the word "twitch" from inside out. Yes, from a short-term point of view, Blizzard probably has a nice cash-inducing deal with twitch about exclusivity, but that's just as short-sighted as everything in today's business world. If they were able and willing to think a little forward, they would have realised that instead of limiting every possible aspect of SC2 in order to milk their "intelectual property", they should have done the polar oposite keep the community as big as possible, if they want to sell something else to it ...
edit: in the meanwhile, a thing I need to quote appeared:
On February 18 2014 00:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:17 Plansix wrote:
The Olympics are broadcast on NBC. Only one network gets to broadcast the Super Bowl. Business deals between leagues and broadcasters are part if the business of producing content. I'm sure twitch doesn't work perfectly everywhere in the world, but that is the nature of the beast. If daily motion wants to broadcast WCS in France, they need to work out a deal wih blizzard. They can't just use another service and say "we like this one better" and expect Blizzard and twitch to be ok with it. no u guys, esl are teh evilz and we need community support (whatever that means) !!!!111 Again though, I don't see why this is a big deal. If you don't agree to the terms imposed upon you by the organizers, you don't get to broadcast your content involving the organizers' tournament, simple as that.
Or you can post about it on the internet and let people show that the community thinks these rules are idiotic. That may help you in convincing those people, who set them, to change them. So, pragmatically, the French parties are doing exactly the right thing.
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On February 18 2014 00:46 opisska wrote:That something like this happens was obvious from the moment we first saw the WCS conditions that were plagued with the word "twitch" from inside out. Yes, from a short-term point of view, Blizzard probably has a nice cash-inducing deal with twitch about exclusivity, but that's just as short-sighted as everything in today's business world. If they were able and willing to think a little forward, they would have realised that instead of limiting every possible aspect of SC2 in order to milk their "intelectual property", they should have done the polar oposite keep the community as big as possible, if they want to sell something else to it ... edit: in the meanwhile, a thing I need to quote appeared: Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 18 2014 00:17 Plansix wrote:
The Olympics are broadcast on NBC. Only one network gets to broadcast the Super Bowl. Business deals between leagues and broadcasters are part if the business of producing content. I'm sure twitch doesn't work perfectly everywhere in the world, but that is the nature of the beast. If daily motion wants to broadcast WCS in France, they need to work out a deal wih blizzard. They can't just use another service and say "we like this one better" and expect Blizzard and twitch to be ok with it. no u guys, esl are teh evilz and we need community support (whatever that means) !!!!111 Again though, I don't see why this is a big deal. If you don't agree to the terms imposed upon you by the organizers, you don't get to broadcast your content involving the organizers' tournament, simple as that. Or you can post about it on the internet and let people show that the community thinks these rules are idiotic. That may help you in convincing those people, who set them, to change them. So, pragmatically, the French parties are doing exactly the right thing.
Yes, let's witchhunt ESL instead of looking at any facet of this issue critically... That'll teach them for daring to partner with certain businesses, you know, as businesses do!
And this is certainly a lesser evil than French ISPs purposefully fucking up connections to Twitch servers in favor of DailyMotion. 
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On February 18 2014 00:46 opisska wrote:That something like this happens was obvious from the moment we first saw the WCS conditions that were plagued with the word "twitch" from inside out. Yes, from a short-term point of view, Blizzard probably has a nice cash-inducing deal with twitch about exclusivity, but that's just as short-sighted as everything in today's business world. If they were able and willing to think a little forward, they would have realised that instead of limiting every possible aspect of SC2 in order to milk their "intelectual property", they should have done the polar oposite keep the community as big as possible, if they want to sell something else to it ... edit: in the meanwhile, a thing I need to quote appeared: Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 18 2014 00:17 Plansix wrote:
The Olympics are broadcast on NBC. Only one network gets to broadcast the Super Bowl. Business deals between leagues and broadcasters are part if the business of producing content. I'm sure twitch doesn't work perfectly everywhere in the world, but that is the nature of the beast. If daily motion wants to broadcast WCS in France, they need to work out a deal wih blizzard. They can't just use another service and say "we like this one better" and expect Blizzard and twitch to be ok with it. no u guys, esl are teh evilz and we need community support (whatever that means) !!!!111 Again though, I don't see why this is a big deal. If you don't agree to the terms imposed upon you by the organizers, you don't get to broadcast your content involving the organizers' tournament, simple as that. Or you can post about it on the internet and let people show that the community thinks these rules are idiotic. That may help you in convincing those people, who set them, to change them. So, pragmatically, the French parties are doing exactly the right thing.
By demanding that WCS be streamed on a French owned streaming service that is owned by a French ISP? Hey guess what, I don't think it is twitches fault their stream is shit in France.
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On February 18 2014 00:30 SinCitta wrote:Orange has also succesfully waylaid Google. Google pays for Orange customers being able to use Youtube with a better service. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/17/google_orangeWith Orange owning Dailymotion they have no incentive of improving the connection to Twitch as unsatisfied customers will use Dailymotion instead. Now, who is the monopolist and who isn't?
Where the problem is obviously the fault of French internet providers , NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, do you really think the SC2 french community will successfully win vs such giants companies? Even if we succeeded to send a letter with 50000 people they will laugh at us.
Atm there are a lot of people complaining about a much big issue which is youtube that is also restrained by certain french provider implying more than a million people and they don't care neither. French internet providers are like the caricature of South park they touch their nipples and *uck u hard but you cant do shit about it.
My point is, even if it's french provider fault, shouldn't ESL be a bit more open and flexible when there is such an issue with their main partner in a country where their game is so popular?
Seriously ESL will not change the situation in france, so why not adapt to it instead of acting as crappy as french internet providers?
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On February 18 2014 00:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:46 opisska wrote:That something like this happens was obvious from the moment we first saw the WCS conditions that were plagued with the word "twitch" from inside out. Yes, from a short-term point of view, Blizzard probably has a nice cash-inducing deal with twitch about exclusivity, but that's just as short-sighted as everything in today's business world. If they were able and willing to think a little forward, they would have realised that instead of limiting every possible aspect of SC2 in order to milk their "intelectual property", they should have done the polar oposite keep the community as big as possible, if they want to sell something else to it ... edit: in the meanwhile, a thing I need to quote appeared: On February 18 2014 00:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 18 2014 00:17 Plansix wrote:
The Olympics are broadcast on NBC. Only one network gets to broadcast the Super Bowl. Business deals between leagues and broadcasters are part if the business of producing content. I'm sure twitch doesn't work perfectly everywhere in the world, but that is the nature of the beast. If daily motion wants to broadcast WCS in France, they need to work out a deal wih blizzard. They can't just use another service and say "we like this one better" and expect Blizzard and twitch to be ok with it. no u guys, esl are teh evilz and we need community support (whatever that means) !!!!111 Again though, I don't see why this is a big deal. If you don't agree to the terms imposed upon you by the organizers, you don't get to broadcast your content involving the organizers' tournament, simple as that. Or you can post about it on the internet and let people show that the community thinks these rules are idiotic. That may help you in convincing those people, who set them, to change them. So, pragmatically, the French parties are doing exactly the right thing. By demanding that WCS be streamed on a French owned streaming service that is owned by a French ISP? Hey guess what, I don't think it is twitches fault their stream is shit in France.
And why not? Why do we NOT want WCS to be broadcast in any medium? I don't know about you, but I am a fan of SC2, so I would be very happy if it were accessible to as many people as possible. It already IS broadcasted by Twitch, everyone who wants to watch it there can. By broadcasting it elsewhere, none of us is hurt in any way, so why on Earth wouldn't we support it?
edit: On February 18 2014 00:52 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:46 opisska wrote:That something like this happens was obvious from the moment we first saw the WCS conditions that were plagued with the word "twitch" from inside out. Yes, from a short-term point of view, Blizzard probably has a nice cash-inducing deal with twitch about exclusivity, but that's just as short-sighted as everything in today's business world. If they were able and willing to think a little forward, they would have realised that instead of limiting every possible aspect of SC2 in order to milk their "intelectual property", they should have done the polar oposite keep the community as big as possible, if they want to sell something else to it ... edit: in the meanwhile, a thing I need to quote appeared: On February 18 2014 00:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 18 2014 00:17 Plansix wrote:
The Olympics are broadcast on NBC. Only one network gets to broadcast the Super Bowl. Business deals between leagues and broadcasters are part if the business of producing content. I'm sure twitch doesn't work perfectly everywhere in the world, but that is the nature of the beast. If daily motion wants to broadcast WCS in France, they need to work out a deal wih blizzard. They can't just use another service and say "we like this one better" and expect Blizzard and twitch to be ok with it. no u guys, esl are teh evilz and we need community support (whatever that means) !!!!111 Again though, I don't see why this is a big deal. If you don't agree to the terms imposed upon you by the organizers, you don't get to broadcast your content involving the organizers' tournament, simple as that. Or you can post about it on the internet and let people show that the community thinks these rules are idiotic. That may help you in convincing those people, who set them, to change them. So, pragmatically, the French parties are doing exactly the right thing. Yes, let's witchhunt ESL instead of looking at any facet of this issue critically... That'll teach them for daring to partner with certain businesses, you know, as businesses do! And this is certainly a lesser evil than French ISPs purposefully fucking up connections to Twitch servers in favor of DailyMotion.
I have no intention of witchhunting anyone. I do not wish for ESL or Blizzard to cease operation, because I like the product they make. But I would be quite a little happier if they changed the way they do it so that stupid issues such as this one do not arise - and it is completely within their combined powers to do that. Debating what is more "evil" is stupid - that won't bring WCS to French viewers.
edit2: you both seem to almost worship the "business partnership" between Blizzard and Twitch like it was a holy family. Yes, business tend to operate like that. Also, businesses that prefer not screwing with their customers over having the best deal with their partners, tend to have much better public perception, which is something that becomes more crucial every year.
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On February 18 2014 00:55 klup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:30 SinCitta wrote:Orange has also succesfully waylaid Google. Google pays for Orange customers being able to use Youtube with a better service. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/17/google_orangeWith Orange owning Dailymotion they have no incentive of improving the connection to Twitch as unsatisfied customers will use Dailymotion instead. Now, who is the monopolist and who isn't? Where the problem is obviously the fault of French internet providers , NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, do you really think the SC2 french community will successfully win vs such giants companies? Even if we succeeded to send a letter with 50000 people they will laugh at us. Atm there are a lot of people complaining about a much big issue which is youtube that is also restrained by certain french provider implying more than a million people and they don't care neither. French internet providers are like the caricature of South park they touch their nipples and *uck u hard but you cant do shit about it. My point is, even if it's french provider fault, should blizzard be a bit more open and flexible when there is such an issue with their main partner in a country where their game is so popular? Seriously blizzard will not change the situation in france, so why not adapt to it instead of acting as crappy as french internet providers?
No. They shouldnt allow a French IPS to hold WCS and other events on twitch hostage to extort money out of the broadcasters. Blizzard isn't doing anything wrong. Orange is screwing over its customers by throttling twitches stream and forcing people to their service, daily motion.
Twitch and blizzard aren't screwing over anyone. Dailymotion and the company who owns it are screwing over the French viewers to try and force them to not watch twitch.
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On February 18 2014 00:57 opisska wrote:
I have no intention of witchhunting anyone. I do not wish for ESL or Blizzard to cease operation, because I like the product they make. But I would be quite a little happier if they changed the way they do it so that stupid issues such as this one do not arise - and it is completely within their combined powers to do that. Debating what is more "evil" is stupid - that won't bring WCS to French viewers.
edit2: you both seem to almost worship the "business partnership" between Blizzard and Twitch like it was a holy family. Yes, business tend to operate like that. Also, businesses that prefer not screwing with their customers over having the best deal with their partners, tend to have much better public perception, which is something that becomes more crucial every year.
And I have no intention of supporting or showing any amount of sympathy towards companies with practices as rotten as the one between French ISPs and DailyMotion. Simple as that. And they should not be rewarded for the erroneous and morally reprehensible way they try to conduct business, by being given permission to broadcast this content, the way I see it.
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On February 18 2014 00:57 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:54 Plansix wrote:On February 18 2014 00:46 opisska wrote:That something like this happens was obvious from the moment we first saw the WCS conditions that were plagued with the word "twitch" from inside out. Yes, from a short-term point of view, Blizzard probably has a nice cash-inducing deal with twitch about exclusivity, but that's just as short-sighted as everything in today's business world. If they were able and willing to think a little forward, they would have realised that instead of limiting every possible aspect of SC2 in order to milk their "intelectual property", they should have done the polar oposite keep the community as big as possible, if they want to sell something else to it ... edit: in the meanwhile, a thing I need to quote appeared: On February 18 2014 00:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 18 2014 00:17 Plansix wrote:
The Olympics are broadcast on NBC. Only one network gets to broadcast the Super Bowl. Business deals between leagues and broadcasters are part if the business of producing content. I'm sure twitch doesn't work perfectly everywhere in the world, but that is the nature of the beast. If daily motion wants to broadcast WCS in France, they need to work out a deal wih blizzard. They can't just use another service and say "we like this one better" and expect Blizzard and twitch to be ok with it. no u guys, esl are teh evilz and we need community support (whatever that means) !!!!111 Again though, I don't see why this is a big deal. If you don't agree to the terms imposed upon you by the organizers, you don't get to broadcast your content involving the organizers' tournament, simple as that. Or you can post about it on the internet and let people show that the community thinks these rules are idiotic. That may help you in convincing those people, who set them, to change them. So, pragmatically, the French parties are doing exactly the right thing. By demanding that WCS be streamed on a French owned streaming service that is owned by a French ISP? Hey guess what, I don't think it is twitches fault their stream is shit in France. And why not? Why do we NOT want WCS to be broadcast in any medium? I don't know about you, but I am a fan of SC2, so I would be very happy if it were accessible to as many people as possible. It already IS broadcasted by Twitch, everyone who wants to watch it there can. By broadcasting it elsewhere, none of us is hurt in any way, so why on Earth wouldn't we support it? edit: Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:52 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 18 2014 00:46 opisska wrote:That something like this happens was obvious from the moment we first saw the WCS conditions that were plagued with the word "twitch" from inside out. Yes, from a short-term point of view, Blizzard probably has a nice cash-inducing deal with twitch about exclusivity, but that's just as short-sighted as everything in today's business world. If they were able and willing to think a little forward, they would have realised that instead of limiting every possible aspect of SC2 in order to milk their "intelectual property", they should have done the polar oposite keep the community as big as possible, if they want to sell something else to it ... edit: in the meanwhile, a thing I need to quote appeared: On February 18 2014 00:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 18 2014 00:17 Plansix wrote:
The Olympics are broadcast on NBC. Only one network gets to broadcast the Super Bowl. Business deals between leagues and broadcasters are part if the business of producing content. I'm sure twitch doesn't work perfectly everywhere in the world, but that is the nature of the beast. If daily motion wants to broadcast WCS in France, they need to work out a deal wih blizzard. They can't just use another service and say "we like this one better" and expect Blizzard and twitch to be ok with it. no u guys, esl are teh evilz and we need community support (whatever that means) !!!!111 Again though, I don't see why this is a big deal. If you don't agree to the terms imposed upon you by the organizers, you don't get to broadcast your content involving the organizers' tournament, simple as that. Or you can post about it on the internet and let people show that the community thinks these rules are idiotic. That may help you in convincing those people, who set them, to change them. So, pragmatically, the French parties are doing exactly the right thing. Yes, let's witchhunt ESL instead of looking at any facet of this issue critically... That'll teach them for daring to partner with certain businesses, you know, as businesses do! And this is certainly a lesser evil than French ISPs purposefully fucking up connections to Twitch servers in favor of DailyMotion. I have no intention of witchhunting anyone. I do not wish for ESL or Blizzard to cease operation, because I like the product they make. But I would be quite a little happier if they changed the way they do it so that stupid issues such as this one do not arise - and it is completely within their combined powers to do that. Debating what is more "evil" is stupid - that won't bring WCS to French viewers.
Actually, you are hurting twitch if you decide to broadcast on dailymotion, since they probably paid for the rights.
I am all for wider access, but in a fair way, not by French ISP doing shady throttling to monopolize their stream service in France.
It is really shortsighted to play by the French ISP rules in the name of the French fans. Because if they get their way, you know what? Twitch probably supports the next WCS less, it is simply not good business to pay for exclusivity but then not actually getting it.
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On February 18 2014 00:46 Plansix wrote:
Lol dailymotion is owned by a French Internet provider! No wonder twitch runs like shit in France, but daily motion runs great. And the best part is people blaming Twich when they are likely getting screwed over by their own ISP.
Orange is not the ISP that makes Twitch running bad. It's Free, mostly.
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On February 18 2014 01:31 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:46 Plansix wrote:
Lol dailymotion is owned by a French Internet provider! No wonder twitch runs like shit in France, but daily motion runs great. And the best part is people blaming Twich when they are likely getting screwed over by their own ISP. Orange is not the ISP that makes Twitch running bad. It's Free, mostly.
Except they have admited to throttling people's connection to Google and YouTube to push their own service. They only stopped when google dumped money on them. My bet is they are the exact reason why twitch runs like shit for so many people in France.
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Plansix, you make a false statement regarding Orange and Twitch. Like Boucot said, Orange never had real issue with Twitch. The only ISP which make Twitch hard to follow is called "Free". But this ISP is one of the leader of the market and a lot of people have subscribed with it. I am using another provider and I have no problem with Twitch.
Also regarding the Dailymotion platform. A few years ago, the streaming with them was awfully bad. But with the work of Ogaming TV, Millenium and other webtv, they have improved a lot to stick with Twitch quality.
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On February 18 2014 01:11 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:57 opisska wrote:On February 18 2014 00:54 Plansix wrote:On February 18 2014 00:46 opisska wrote:That something like this happens was obvious from the moment we first saw the WCS conditions that were plagued with the word "twitch" from inside out. Yes, from a short-term point of view, Blizzard probably has a nice cash-inducing deal with twitch about exclusivity, but that's just as short-sighted as everything in today's business world. If they were able and willing to think a little forward, they would have realised that instead of limiting every possible aspect of SC2 in order to milk their "intelectual property", they should have done the polar oposite keep the community as big as possible, if they want to sell something else to it ... edit: in the meanwhile, a thing I need to quote appeared: On February 18 2014 00:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 18 2014 00:17 Plansix wrote:
The Olympics are broadcast on NBC. Only one network gets to broadcast the Super Bowl. Business deals between leagues and broadcasters are part if the business of producing content. I'm sure twitch doesn't work perfectly everywhere in the world, but that is the nature of the beast. If daily motion wants to broadcast WCS in France, they need to work out a deal wih blizzard. They can't just use another service and say "we like this one better" and expect Blizzard and twitch to be ok with it. no u guys, esl are teh evilz and we need community support (whatever that means) !!!!111 Again though, I don't see why this is a big deal. If you don't agree to the terms imposed upon you by the organizers, you don't get to broadcast your content involving the organizers' tournament, simple as that. Or you can post about it on the internet and let people show that the community thinks these rules are idiotic. That may help you in convincing those people, who set them, to change them. So, pragmatically, the French parties are doing exactly the right thing. By demanding that WCS be streamed on a French owned streaming service that is owned by a French ISP? Hey guess what, I don't think it is twitches fault their stream is shit in France. And why not? Why do we NOT want WCS to be broadcast in any medium? I don't know about you, but I am a fan of SC2, so I would be very happy if it were accessible to as many people as possible. It already IS broadcasted by Twitch, everyone who wants to watch it there can. By broadcasting it elsewhere, none of us is hurt in any way, so why on Earth wouldn't we support it? edit: On February 18 2014 00:52 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 18 2014 00:46 opisska wrote:That something like this happens was obvious from the moment we first saw the WCS conditions that were plagued with the word "twitch" from inside out. Yes, from a short-term point of view, Blizzard probably has a nice cash-inducing deal with twitch about exclusivity, but that's just as short-sighted as everything in today's business world. If they were able and willing to think a little forward, they would have realised that instead of limiting every possible aspect of SC2 in order to milk their "intelectual property", they should have done the polar oposite keep the community as big as possible, if they want to sell something else to it ... edit: in the meanwhile, a thing I need to quote appeared: On February 18 2014 00:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 18 2014 00:17 Plansix wrote:
The Olympics are broadcast on NBC. Only one network gets to broadcast the Super Bowl. Business deals between leagues and broadcasters are part if the business of producing content. I'm sure twitch doesn't work perfectly everywhere in the world, but that is the nature of the beast. If daily motion wants to broadcast WCS in France, they need to work out a deal wih blizzard. They can't just use another service and say "we like this one better" and expect Blizzard and twitch to be ok with it. no u guys, esl are teh evilz and we need community support (whatever that means) !!!!111 Again though, I don't see why this is a big deal. If you don't agree to the terms imposed upon you by the organizers, you don't get to broadcast your content involving the organizers' tournament, simple as that. Or you can post about it on the internet and let people show that the community thinks these rules are idiotic. That may help you in convincing those people, who set them, to change them. So, pragmatically, the French parties are doing exactly the right thing. Yes, let's witchhunt ESL instead of looking at any facet of this issue critically... That'll teach them for daring to partner with certain businesses, you know, as businesses do! And this is certainly a lesser evil than French ISPs purposefully fucking up connections to Twitch servers in favor of DailyMotion. I have no intention of witchhunting anyone. I do not wish for ESL or Blizzard to cease operation, because I like the product they make. But I would be quite a little happier if they changed the way they do it so that stupid issues such as this one do not arise - and it is completely within their combined powers to do that. Debating what is more "evil" is stupid - that won't bring WCS to French viewers. Actually, you are hurting twitch if you decide to broadcast on dailymotion, since they probably paid for the rights. I am all for wider access, but in a fair way, not by French ISP doing shady throttling to monopolize their stream service in France. It is really shortsighted to play by the French ISP rules in the name of the French fans. Because if they get their way, you know what? Twitch probably supports the next WCS less, it is simply not good business to pay for exclusivity but then not actually getting it.
And you know what , French people has not been able to watch properly all the WCS europe 2013 because of that issue. WCS korea and america were ok because they were very early in the morning or very late the night but I couldn't follow properly WCS europe and was obliged to follow it by the great but not as exciting LR. If you think ESL will make french ISP bend where all the consumer association of France failed miserably on the related youtube issue you are plain wrong. Yes French ISP are very bad but we will not move the mountain.
Also Twitch is not all white in this , everybody know they lack of infrastructure in europe.
So yes it is shortsighted but When you see how the french SC2 community and particulary OgamingTv have been struggling so much last year, only allowed to cast MLG (who died in middle of the year) and the homestory cups , how theses structures are supposed to live?
Who will watch a stream that stutter step every 2 second?
Things have been improved this year because it's not a ALL WCS system so other tournaments can live such as NationWars.
The only positive aspect of this situation is that the desperation about ESL/Twitch issue will probably help us seeing more Nationwars/Ironsquid stuff that Ogamingtv produce.
A lot of my friends began starcraft watching Pomf&Thud videos on youtube, They brought a lot to SC2 in France and they merit some kind of support I think.
Edit : and yes it's mainly free that is the issue but also others, actually orange is one of the "ok" providers with twitch
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On February 18 2014 01:45 Alfindor wrote:
Plansix, you make a false statement regarding Orange and Twitch. Like Boucot said, Orange never had real issue with Twitch. The only ISP which make Twitch hard to follow is called "Free". But this ISP is one of the leader of the market and a lot of people have subscribed with it. I am using another provider and I have no problem with Twitch.
Also regarding the Dailymotion platform. A few years ago, the streaming with them was awfully bad. But with the work of Ogaming TV, Millenium and other webtv, they have improved a lot to stick with Twitch quality.
So orange, who previously admitted to throttling YouTube traffic to get people to use daily motion, is not throttling twitch?
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On February 18 2014 02:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 01:45 Alfindor wrote:
Plansix, you make a false statement regarding Orange and Twitch. Like Boucot said, Orange never had real issue with Twitch. The only ISP which make Twitch hard to follow is called "Free". But this ISP is one of the leader of the market and a lot of people have subscribed with it. I am using another provider and I have no problem with Twitch.
Also regarding the Dailymotion platform. A few years ago, the streaming with them was awfully bad. But with the work of Ogaming TV, Millenium and other webtv, they have improved a lot to stick with Twitch quality. So orange, who previously admitted to throttling YouTube traffic to get people to use daily motion, is not throttling twitch?
Actually I don't know where you get that but Orange is making youtube and twitch working fine. The real ISP that mess with everything is Free and by extend Alice. Broadcasting a show that almost half of their audience can't see is really problematic for OgamingTv
IF ur read the article joined on the UK journalism site , you will see that orange negociated financial arrangment with Google but Free want to do the same so they are blocking google thinking they have the better power here. But I guess when they will see their sales drop they will turn sides, I hope! Guess it must be the same kind of issues for twitch.
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On February 18 2014 00:55 klup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:30 SinCitta wrote:Orange has also succesfully waylaid Google. Google pays for Orange customers being able to use Youtube with a better service. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/17/google_orangeWith Orange owning Dailymotion they have no incentive of improving the connection to Twitch as unsatisfied customers will use Dailymotion instead. Now, who is the monopolist and who isn't? Where the problem is obviously the fault of French internet providers , NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, do you really think the SC2 french community will successfully win vs such giants companies? Even if we succeeded to send a letter with 50000 people they will laugh at us. Atm there are a lot of people complaining about a much big issue which is youtube that is also restrained by certain french provider implying more than a million people and they don't care neither. French internet providers are like the caricature of South park they touch their nipples and *uck u hard but you cant do shit about it. My point is, even if it's french provider fault, shouldn't ESL be a bit more open and flexible when there is such an issue with their main partner in a country where their game is so popular? Seriously ESL will not change the situation in france, so why not adapt to it instead of acting as crappy as french internet providers?
I am not against a solution where WCS Europe is allowed to be streamed on Dailymotion. But crying over the Twitch monopoly is hypocritical when a big factor for the bad service in the first place is the monopoly of certain ISPs (which many can understand, ISPs are shitty almost everywhere).
Btw, ISPs mostly don't throttle services. They just neglect to invest to expand the peering towards popular service providers. Possibly both sides are to blame for that.
What made the campaign dishonest was the initial post. When you claim ESL is to blame without giving any real information, you basically are doing a witchhunt. It's mostly a deal between multiple companies. You can ask for the community to rally behind something, but you should be fair enough to give them the information to make their own judgement.
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On February 18 2014 02:04 klup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 02:00 Plansix wrote:On February 18 2014 01:45 Alfindor wrote:
Plansix, you make a false statement regarding Orange and Twitch. Like Boucot said, Orange never had real issue with Twitch. The only ISP which make Twitch hard to follow is called "Free". But this ISP is one of the leader of the market and a lot of people have subscribed with it. I am using another provider and I have no problem with Twitch.
Also regarding the Dailymotion platform. A few years ago, the streaming with them was awfully bad. But with the work of Ogaming TV, Millenium and other webtv, they have improved a lot to stick with Twitch quality. So orange, who previously admitted to throttling YouTube traffic to get people to use daily motion, is not throttling twitch? Actually I don't know where you get that but Orange is making youtube and twitch working fine. The real ISP that mess with everything is Free and by extend Alice. Broadcasting a show that almost half of their audience can't see is really problematic for OgamingTv
There is an article on the precious page in the thread where the CEO of Orange admits to "forcing google to pay the drive traffic to them". It is basically the opposit of net neutrality, where the ISP works out deals with companies to provide them with higher bandwidth rates. So before google paid the money, people using YouTube were getting shitty bit rates, even though there were paying for a specific connection speed.
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On February 18 2014 02:08 SinCitta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 00:55 klup wrote:On February 18 2014 00:30 SinCitta wrote:Orange has also succesfully waylaid Google. Google pays for Orange customers being able to use Youtube with a better service. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/17/google_orangeWith Orange owning Dailymotion they have no incentive of improving the connection to Twitch as unsatisfied customers will use Dailymotion instead. Now, who is the monopolist and who isn't? Where the problem is obviously the fault of French internet providers , NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, do you really think the SC2 french community will successfully win vs such giants companies? Even if we succeeded to send a letter with 50000 people they will laugh at us. Atm there are a lot of people complaining about a much big issue which is youtube that is also restrained by certain french provider implying more than a million people and they don't care neither. French internet providers are like the caricature of South park they touch their nipples and *uck u hard but you cant do shit about it. My point is, even if it's french provider fault, shouldn't ESL be a bit more open and flexible when there is such an issue with their main partner in a country where their game is so popular? Seriously ESL will not change the situation in france, so why not adapt to it instead of acting as crappy as french internet providers? I am not against a solution where WCS Europe is allowed to be streamed on Dailymotion. But crying over the Twitch monopoly is hypocritical when a big factor for the bad service in the first place is the monopoly of certain ISPs (which many can understand, ISPs are shitty almost everywhere). Btw, ISPs mostly don't throttle services. They just neglect to invest to expand the peering towards popular service providers. Possibly both sides are to blame for that. What made the campaign dishonest was the initial post. When you claim ESL is to blame without giving any real information, you basically are doing a witchhunt. It's mostly a deal between multiple companies. You can ask for the community to rally behind something, but you should be fair enough to give them the information to make their own judgement.
What we can hear from the post of Anoss is that it is clearly ESL is not that white in this matter :
And that's the problem, we've never been able to negotiate anything. And i mean no step or solutions were proposed by the ESL, no dynamics to find solution popped out. So we waited. On the paper, solutions seems to exist, a large clause precises that it is to not stream on twitch (http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/about/shoutcasters) if an agreement is found between the two parts.
At the same period, ESL took the decision to not share any games replays which hurted the quality of our youtube channel but we accepted it.
Also the sharing replay issue is really weird.
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On February 18 2014 02:13 Plansix wrote:
There is an article on the precious page in the thread where the CEO of Orange admits to "forcing google to pay the drive traffic to them". It is basically the opposit of net neutrality, where the ISP works out deals with companies to provide them with higher bandwidth rates. So before google paid the money, people using YouTube were getting shitty bit rates, even though there were paying for a specific connection speed.
I think they applied the limit bandwith only in Africa to put pressure on google and then negociation happened.
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EPT
