Feb 10: Balance Test Map Coming - Page 40

On February 11 2014 23:56 darkness wrote:


Blizzard doesn't want to buff hydralisks because of PvZ. Their focus is hydralisks in ZvZ and ZvT in case you've missed.

On February 11 2014 21:19 shin_toss wrote:
Lol you realize that Hydra also attacks on ground, and Karpfen fail to comprehend, I'm not even saying to balance it on once particular level, my point is the word balance should apply to "all' skill level. If blink plays are easy, how much more roach/hyrdra plays that most of the time only involved attack-ground command.

yeah sure Roach/Hydra is fine vs their protoss counter parts. Jeez )

On February 12 2014 00:34 Pirfiktshon wrote:
You can't Balance a Game off of Bottom Tier brackets.... as many times as ppl say that it makes me cringe and puts a pit in my stomach thinking is the general populace this dull?

You can't balance a game off of someone with 20 apm and just clicks on stuff and watches fights LOL Trust me I used to be one of those in BW when i was like 9 LOL You can only balance a game off of those that can use units to their maximum efficiency but the way Blizzard made SC2 is that alot of times you can't as a human perform what blizzard has set out for maximum efficiency for units.... IE the Automation 2000 marines vs Banes not a single marine dies and kills like 40 banes LOL or where a relatively small group of lings massacres like 40 tanks... as a human you can only do so much so fast even if you are korean..... So balancing really should only come into play when a certain strategy is used with complete ease and the counterpart that is reacting is facing an EXTREME unsurmountable task that can only be accomplished if the otherside makes a mistake.... LOL which TvP feels like that ALOT especially with blink stalker.... I don't know if you watch many T players stream but most of the time when terran defend blink all in at high GM level its because Protoss MADE HUGE HUGE HUGE mistakes....

On February 12 2014 00:37 nimdil wrote:
How many years do they need to balance this game...

On February 12 2014 00:41 zelderan wrote:


The game is balanced. There are minor things here and there but overall Blizzard has the balance thing figured out. Most of these changes are in response to the Korean meta (msc+blink allins, wm not being strong enough, zerg AA bad etc.)

Im sorry but how can you say the game is balanced when all we see is pvp finals with the ocasional zerg? No, the game is not balanced and thats why protoss is getting a well overdue nerf. Now all we need is a fix for swarmhosts vipers and ravens and the game will be good again.

Dude I really can't take you seriously with all those "LOL"'s
The game is balanced. There are minor things here and there but overall Blizzard has the balance thing figured out. Most of these changes are in response to the Korean meta (msc+blink allins, wm not being strong enough, zerg AA bad etc.)

On February 12 2014 01:01 zelderan wrote:




When I say the game is balanced, I say that the overall race win-rate on the ladder, which is very very close, probably as close as you can even get to being balanced. I do agree that SH's need a fix, and toss definitely needs a nerf, but the game is pretty balanced outside of the pro scene.

On February 12 2014 01:01 zelderan wrote:




When I say the game is balanced, I say that the overall race win-rate on the ladder, which is very very close, probably as close as you can even get to being balanced. I do agree that SH's need a fix, and toss definitely needs a nerf, but the game is pretty balanced outside of the pro scene.

On February 12 2014 01:01 zelderan wrote:




When I say the game is balanced, I say that the overall race win-rate on the ladder, which is very very close, probably as close as you can even get to being balanced. I do agree that SH's need a fix, and toss definitely needs a nerf, but the game is pretty balanced outside of the pro scene.

On February 12 2014 00:37 nimdil wrote:
How many years do they need to balance this game...

On February 11 2014 18:21 pali_ wrote:


You ain't getting that in 1920x1080, because the aspect ratio does not fit More like 1920x600

I like most of the changes btw. Especially mama-core vision and WM shield dmg buff. I agree though that the Blink nerf might be too harsh, 50% cooldown nerf is too much imo, it is not the blink itself that makes the blink-all-ins so tough to hold, it's the mothershipcore, its maphack-vision + timewarp PLUS the fact that you don't require a tech building to get it (meaning like robo or stargate for instance, I know that the cybernetics core is required) and that it's not much of an investment, so basically it's a nobrainer for P to get it. (Maybe increasing the cost a bit - escpecially the gas cost - would make it more of a decision for P to get it? I mean, this should be a game of choices and each choice should have its pros and cons. And given the fact that the core is a damn strong defensive - and offensive - see below - unit, I don't see why it shouldn't be more expensive)

Now, I don't want to whine too much, but a few thoughts on the mothership core. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I got it, this unit was introduced to the game so that P become safer against all-ins / so that expand builds (especially in PvZ and PvP) become more viable. I think that is correct? Now, I would be totally OK with that, an easy to get defensive unit which allows you to play macro-focused. Totally fine with me. The fact which is totally breaking my balls is that this unit is not only defensive, but it can be used in a crapton of various all-ins as well, making them VERY strong. Now, from my perspective, designing a unit like that is just plain wrong, especially due to the fact that it is so low in the tech tree and so easy to get.
So, why not try to change sth so that the mama-core becomes a pure defensive unit? For example, change its movement speed? P still could use defensive timewarps and PO and still could use recall by splitting a part of its army and recalling it to the 3rd nexus in a split-push situation, for example. This would especially nerf the mama-core's offensive ability in TvP and weaken the 2base immortal based PvZ all-ins without affecting the mama-core's defensive abilities.
I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Another suggestion I read a few pages back was reducing stim research time by a few seconds. Thinking back, the research time was mainly increased in order to help P hold the medivac stim / stim only pushes. I think that's about right? Now, P have the mothership core / the maps are much bigger, so why not revert this change? In TvP, P is pretty much untouchable within the first 7-8-9 minutes thanks to the mothership core, so why not making T's life a bit easier and helping them hold the plethora of P all-ins by reducing the stim research time a bit? Or would this affect TvZ too much? I honestly don't think so.
Again, thoughts would be appreciated.

The ladder is built to have balanced winrates, so it means nothing.

rofl ofc the overall race winrate on the ladder is close to 50%, that´s what the ladder system doesn, unless you are at the very ends of the skill spectrum. But that way fewer terrans than protoss or zerg are reaching GM and Master in every region, is no indicator for you?

It has nothing to do with balance. Even if it is perfectly balanced, we are going to be incredibly bored in 6 months, so that we need a new balance patch again . Every race has 2 OP units is alot more interesting to play and watch than every unit (and the game) is perfectly balanced.

You ain't getting that in 1920x1080, because the aspect ratio does not fit More like 1920x600

I like most of the changes btw. Especially mama-core vision and WM shield dmg buff. I agree though that the Blink nerf might be too harsh, 50% cooldown nerf is too much imo, it is not the blink itself that makes the blink-all-ins so tough to hold, it's the mothershipcore, its maphack-vision + timewarp PLUS the fact that you don't require a tech building to get it (meaning like robo or stargate for instance, I know that the cybernetics core is required) and that it's not much of an investment, so basically it's a nobrainer for P to get it. (Maybe increasing the cost a bit - escpecially the gas cost - would make it more of a decision for P to get it? I mean, this should be a game of choices and each choice should have its pros and cons. And given the fact that the core is a damn strong defensive - and offensive - see below - unit, I don't see why it shouldn't be more expensive)

Now, I don't want to whine too much, but a few thoughts on the mothership core. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I got it, this unit was introduced to the game so that P become safer against all-ins / so that expand builds (especially in PvZ and PvP) become more viable. I think that is correct? Now, I would be totally OK with that, an easy to get defensive unit which allows you to play macro-focused. Totally fine with me. The fact which is totally breaking my balls is that this unit is not only defensive, but it can be used in a crapton of various all-ins as well, making them VERY strong. Now, from my perspective, designing a unit like that is just plain wrong, especially due to the fact that it is so low in the tech tree and so easy to get.
So, why not try to change sth so that the mama-core becomes a pure defensive unit? For example, change its movement speed? P still could use defensive timewarps and PO and still could use recall by splitting a part of its army and recalling it to the 3rd nexus in a split-push situation, for example. This would especially nerf the mama-core's offensive ability in TvP and weaken the 2base immortal based PvZ all-ins without affecting the mama-core's defensive abilities.
I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Another suggestion I read a few pages back was reducing stim research time by a few seconds. Thinking back, the research time was mainly increased in order to help P hold the medivac stim / stim only pushes. I think that's about right? Now, P have the mothership core / the maps are much bigger, so why not revert this change? In TvP, P is pretty much untouchable within the first 7-8-9 minutes thanks to the mothership core, so why not making T's life a bit easier and helping them hold the plethora of P all-ins by reducing the stim research time a bit? Or would this affect TvZ too much? I honestly don't think so.
Again, thoughts would be appreciated.

On February 12 2014 01:06 TheDwf wrote:

The ladder is built to have balanced winrates, so it means nothing.