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SC2 Balance Changes: Pros' Impressions - Page 8
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babochee
United States31 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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aeligos
United States172 Posts
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
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IncubusSC
Canada57 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On February 03 2014 01:49 desRow wrote: http://aligulac.com/players/987-avilo/ http://aligulac.com/players/542-desRow/ he's earned 50$ while I've earned 692$ + a missing 2140$ from this list (WCS Premier + a tournament in Quebec city last week end for 140$) http://www.sc2earnings.com/search?search=desrow I can say you are not relevant either and you should just sit and play. You know, you're just an average streamer, same as avilo, you don't have more credit than him.. User was warned for this post | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On February 03 2014 01:43 TronJovolta wrote: And how much tournament winnings have you accumulated? LOL. It doesn't matter, you don't see desrow whining about everything. Desrow's point was that, if you're not a tournament winning player then you can improve beyond minimal balance limitations whereas at the top level of play that might not actually be possible. Also, pvt is not nearly as imbalanced as people pretend it is. It's pretty disgusting when after 80% of my ladder wins vs terran the terran will tell me how !@#$ing bull!@#$ and op my race is and how it takes no skill. This is mostly because of mob balance mentality. Players like avilo who whine constantly are just conditioning you to think that he's right. The more terrans that whine about balance the more other terran players start to think that the game is imbalanced. Maybe protoss is slightly overpowered atm. I certainly think oracle/blink all in nerf would be a good idea but should I have to hear how op and how skill less I am after every game? Certainly not. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On February 03 2014 01:57 Faust852 wrote: http://www.sc2earnings.com/search?search=desrow I can say you are not relevant either and you should just sit and play. You know, you're just an average streamer, same as avilo, you don't have more credit than him.. He 3-1d Apocalypse to qualify for WCS AM Premier, Apocalypse came close to beating Dear. desRow is way better than Avilo. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Not that i mind i prefer seeing smarter defensive players like Roro and SoulKey winning more then the mindless aggressive and clueless late game zergs like Life and Jaedong . Also if Blizzard wants to buff zergs , other then the hydras they should be looking for ways to improve the drop/nydus tech . When was the last time you saw drop or nydus incorporated in strategies for middle/lategame ... yeah i don't remember either . | ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On February 03 2014 02:03 raga4ka wrote: People whine every game about swarm host / spine/spore turtle galore being boring as hell, but when Blizzard tries to buff hydras to encourage zergs to play more aggressive and help zerg players with aggressive styles , the other races shit their pants , because they are too scared to play against it and they prefer the drawn out death animation when zerg gets 15+ swarm hosts and use them efficiently . Not that i mind i prefer seeing smarter defensive players like Roro and SoulKey winning more then the mindless aggressive and clueless late game zergs like Life and Jaedong . Also if Blizzard wants to buff zergs , other then the hydras they should be looking for ways to improve the drop/nydus tech . When was the last time you saw drop or nydus incorporated in strategies for middle/lategame ... yeah i don't remember either . The hydra change is quite clearly a bad change. I don't even see any zergs agreeing with this one xD... they need to nerf sh more directly and also voidray/tempest. TlDR; read tlo's comments. Spot on | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On February 03 2014 01:57 -HuShang- wrote: It doesn't matter, you don't see desrow whining about everything. Desrow's point was that, if you're not a tournament winning player then you can improve beyond minimal balance limitations whereas at the top level of play that might not actually be possible. Also, pvt is not nearly as imbalanced as people pretend it is. It's pretty disgusting when after 80% of my ladder wins vs terran the terran will tell me how !@#$ing bull!@#$ and op my race is and how it takes no skill. This is mostly because of mob balance mentality. Players like avilo who whine constantly are just conditioning you to think that he's right. The more terrans that whine about balance the more other terran players start to think that the game is imbalanced. Maybe protoss is slightly overpowered atm. I certainly think oracle/blink all in nerf would be a good idea but should I have to hear how op and how skill less I am after every game? Certainly not. get used to it. That is how the sc2 community works. Every race has gone through that phase by now. I chose terran when I was in WOL Beta and got much shit on ladder of how OP terran is after its release. IdrA balancewhined ALOT, and I got a lot of shit from z players on ladder, because everyone bounces on the whine train and makes balance responsible for their losses. Often it is though. I sticked to terran anyway even after countless nerfs and flames on the ladder. Point is: Is your race imbalanced? Probably. Will you get shit for it? Most likely. So get used to it. | ||
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TommyStarcraft
Denmark34 Posts
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On February 03 2014 02:07 -HuShang- wrote: The hydra change is quite clearly a bad change. I don't even see any zergs agreeing with this one xD... they need to nerf sh more directly and also voidray/tempest. TlDR; read tlo's comments. Spot on I think that nerfing sh,void,tempest and raven HSM would be the way to go or buffing zerg anti-air so queens aren´t the best AA zerg´s have. I think that weaker SH and the current raven could be a huge problem in late game tvz especially if terrane could get to that point easier with weaker SH. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On February 03 2014 01:57 -HuShang- wrote: It doesn't matter, you don't see desrow whining about everything. Desrow's point was that, if you're not a tournament winning player then you can improve beyond minimal balance limitations whereas at the top level of play that might not actually be possible. Also, pvt is not nearly as imbalanced as people pretend it is. It's pretty disgusting when after 80% of my ladder wins vs terran the terran will tell me how !@#$ing bull!@#$ and op my race is and how it takes no skill. This is mostly because of mob balance mentality. Players like avilo who whine constantly are just conditioning you to think that he's right. The more terrans that whine about balance the more other terran players start to think that the game is imbalanced. Maybe protoss is slightly overpowered atm. I certainly think oracle/blink all in nerf would be a good idea but should I have to hear how op and how skill less I am after every game? Certainly not. I think avilo is a mediocre player and don't read anything of what he writes on TL, yet I'm also of the opinion that playing Protoss is easier than playing Terran at some levels. And I don't say anything to my opponent after a game, but that's beside the point. No "guru or mob balance mentality" here, please get over yourself. I also think that Protoss players themselves have a hard time grasping how easy this matchup is really for them. They hear stuff from Terrans like "I have to prepare against a thousand builds and I can't scout!", yet, when they play the matchup, themselves practice only that 1 build that is working for them and they don't see how it could possibly be threatening beyond measure for Terran. But Protoss Ladder Hero A does Build A, Protoss Ladder Hero B does Build B, and et caetera, until Terrans seemingly meet an infinite amount of random builds that are working really well and can't defend against them all. Even those of you who are playing "standard" and defensive and not "abusing the race" as they say, you're benefitting from all of those we Terrans had to play before you who did some random all-in which insta-killed us. With the fear of XX all-in planted, Terrans make specific plans and allocate time to defend that all-in or at least scout it and you get away with your very standard build without noticing anything. From the Terran side however, every build I can think of that would put you on the backfoot gets stopped dead by the all-mighty mothership core, except maybe that one mine drop which sometimes works... | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13402 Posts
On February 03 2014 01:57 Faust852 wrote: http://www.sc2earnings.com/search?search=desrow I can say you are not relevant either and you should just sit and play. You know, you're just an average streamer, same as avilo, you don't have more credit than him.. Please do not bash players in this thread. DesRow is a hard worker who has put in the time and effort to reach WCS america premier league. He and everyone else who provided feedback did so by their own volition. They were nice enough to help us so that you the community can get an idea on their thoughts which are based in a generally very high understanding of the game based on thousands and thousands of games of experience. All the players here were not only nice but they also had the guts to do this. Considering how the community normally reacts to balance and patches for balance many people were afraid to go on the record because of the community's potential reaction. Thankfully the majority of this thread seems fairly reasonable. Remember that it is a privilege to get these thoughts not a right. Borrowing from DotA and HS forums we are trying to break down a wall so that we can do more of this in the future. Personal attacks against those involved only makes this kind of post less likely in the future. | ||
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MWY
Germany284 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3444 Posts
On February 03 2014 01:57 Faust852 wrote: http://www.sc2earnings.com/search?search=desrow I can say you are not relevant either and you should just sit and play. You know, you're just an average streamer, same as avilo, you don't have more credit than him.. Desrow is a good player and not a whiner. I ve met him during WCG in China and he s a hardworker. His input is wise and doesn't seem biased (and before you bash me because I have a Protoss icon, it s because I play P in Brood War, but in SC2 I am random) | ||
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AxiR
Germany944 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On February 03 2014 02:12 ZeromuS wrote: Please do not bash players in this thread. DesRow is a hard worker who has put in the time and effort to reach WCS america premier league. He and everyone else who provided feedback did so by their own volition. They were nice enough to help us so that you the community can get an idea on their thoughts which are based in a generally very high understanding of the game based on thousands and thousands of games of experience. All the players here were not only nice but they also had the guts to do this. Considering how the community normally reacts to balance and patches for balance many people were afraid to go on the record because of the community's potential reaction. Thankfully the majority of this thread seems fairly reasonable. Remember that it is a privilege to get these thoughts not a right. Borrowing from DotA and HS forums we are trying to break down a wall so that we can do more of this in the future. Personal attacks against those involved only makes this kind of post less likely in the future. 100% good on TL to do this. It is a push blizzard needs to be honest because if they stay on the current track they are...it's not good for SC2 and the entire community. I'm sure TL has recognized themselves there are really obvious issues with the current balance of the game, and that the changes blizzard propose really do not address those issues...which is why they decided to make this thread in the first place with pro player's opinions. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On February 03 2014 02:07 -HuShang- wrote: The hydra change is quite clearly a bad change. I don't even see any zergs agreeing with this one xD... they need to nerf sh more directly and also voidray/tempest. TlDR; read tlo's comments. Spot on TLO and zergs while i respect them for being humble and acknowledging a potentialy OP hydras even though he is zerg , i don't think that there is enough testing done before claiming something as bullshit . There has been like only 2 -3 days of testing , clearly not enough . This changes require time for people to adjust to timings accordingly . And i would also like for Blizzard / Pros to implement a sufficient number of replays/vods from games of high skilled pros and analysis from them to back up the claim of something being broken when testing it , it would add so much more merit to their words . How can we know that this isn't just the casual whine from progamers and noobs , about their race geting nerfed , other races getting buffed mentality , fearing drastic changes to the game . Not that i like the hydra buff so much in general . But this gives the option of zergs to choose more freely of being aggressive or defensive. I would rather see more things getting buffed , then things getting nerfed . You hear me Blizzard ? Where is my nudys / overlord and overseer drop tech buff ? I don't even play zerg i play terran , but i would rather see some diversity and some drop / nydus and banneling bomb action . On February 03 2014 02:10 RaFox17 wrote: I think that nerfing sh,void,tempest and raven HSM would be the way to go or buffing zerg anti-air so queens aren´t the best AA zerg´s have. I think that weaker SH and the current raven could be a huge problem in late game tvz especially if terrane could get to that point easier with weaker SH. While we are at it we should just change to WOL rather then playing HOTS . Terrans are fine the way they are in TvZ . Swarm hosts are not that much of a problem. Just because protoss haven't found an effective way to deal with SH , blizzard should nerf like 5 units , for making life easier for protoss ? As i said i would rather see more buffing and less nerfing ... | ||
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