EPTSC2 Balance Changes: Pros' Impressions - Page 6
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ReMinD_
Croatia846 Posts
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
How come they don't understand their own game ? | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
On February 02 2014 23:36 ImperialFist wrote: Desrow despises Terran so that is to be expected. I don't despise terran. I agree that the mothershipcore vision range is too good but the terran whiners like Avilo who are a mile away from being a tournament player should sit down and play instead of spreading bullshit as much as they can. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On February 03 2014 00:39 DinoMight wrote: Just fix the frickin maps please and that will solve like 90% of the Blink allin issues. Seriously there has never been such an allin friendly map pool in the history of SC2. Fix that and the game will be better for Terrans in the early game. The patches IMO don't address the actual problems (Terrans dying to Blink allins, Swarm Hosts being poorly designed). Is this a joke? Steppes of War, Xel Naga Caverns... Incineration Zone, Slag Pits... do you remember the old maps? I also strongly disagree that fixing the maps is the solution. Maps already have way too many constraints on them to allow Protoss to FFE, to allow Zerg to be able to get a close third, to stop the 1-1-1 from dominating TvP (the map pool fixed the 1-1-1 as maps got bigger, not Blizzard changes), to allow Protoss to get a third without dying to the Roach max, ect... All of these problem are inherent balance problems that should have been fixed by re-balancing the game. A good player should be able to tailor his strategy for different maps, and exploit the terrain of the map to his advantage. The maps shouldn't all be so similiar, with so many restrictions that are required for balance purposes. | ||
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catabowl
United States815 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On February 03 2014 00:45 DailYLeet wrote: lol a zerg himself says that the hydralisk buff is too big :D I would imagine (and hope..) the majority of us are saying the same. Not just TLO. | ||
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
But I guess it's just testing, I don't think it'll go through. | ||
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Ulargg
Netherlands33 Posts
There are some major problems in lategame zvz zvp and zvt (mech only). Only one style works in the ultra late game; swarm hosts + static defense. I saw a few games yesterday from Stephano were he went mass swarm host after he got behind a bit in the muta wars. The result was a 1 h 40 min game with just locusts fighting each other. Similar things happen vs mech or against toss death ball. This style absolutely horrible to play and boring to watch. If you want to remove this style you need to buff zerg anti air late game and nerf swarm hosts. Reducing the hydra cost does not address this issue at all. It affects the midgame only were strong timings will occur. Any armor or HP buff may break pvz midgame (it will not break z v t, i tested it on the patch map), thus you need a hive hydra upgrade or greater spire corruptor upgrade to give zerg a chance in lategame without swarm hosts. Given that hydras already have two upgrades; IMO it is better to give a lategame upgrade to corruptors. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
its the most beautifully terrifying thing ever | ||
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Akimbo
Canada105 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
Regarding the msc, the time warp nerf will affect blink all ins the most... they could also limit protoss to casting a single time warp at a time, but I believe in the case of all ins this nerf is good enough anyway. The photon overcharge nerf... I'm still not sure. What minigun said about the distance required to cast photon overcharge would actually be a smarter nerf to protoss defense imo, while not affecting PvP much. Other people talked about the range of photon overcharge, but then again nerfing the msc to oblivion isn't a very good approach either. It's ironic that the ones who complain the most about the msc are terran players. As a matter of fact, the medivac buff was one of the biggest reasons why such solid defense became even more important for protoss. The msc is just fine in PvZ and plays a very important whole in PvP. Most players seem to agree the ghost buff is retarded. It's just a random buff that favors unskilled players the most... not good. | ||
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Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
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monsta
172 Posts
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
Ghost buff isn't really necessary either, in my opinion. It's already the best caster in the game and extremely powerful in the right hands. Lower the cost and research time of the energy upgrade if you want, but don't make it free. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
--MsC vision nerf to 8-9 but Mothership should get some obscene 15-21 sight and Planetary Nexus duration nerf by 10-15s. Nerf to all-ins and excessive greediness. Also gives MS a purpose. --Armory cost decrease by 100/100. Per Avilo. --Ghost upgrade given, saving 100/100. This does help Ghost/Mech and rarely do Ghosts get seen in PvT midgame. At the very least it draw resources away from the MMM. --Tank transformation time buffed 20%. Tanks need more stuff and more attributes because they are still obsolete. The 8-9 sight MsC nerf allows Tank pressure, but making them more mobile and responsive will push them along into mainstream use. --Combat shields/Stim cost increased by 50/50 each. Bio needs adjustments to normalize its power curve. The midgame swing is too volatile, necessitating overbuffing of counter units that scale to the late game. --Storm damage nerfed 15%, buffed 30% shields. HT is too powerful in nonmirror matchups, and rarely seen in PvP outside of Archons. --Feedback range nerfed to 8. HT is also very powerful with Feedback, enough to get a double nerf. --Medivac now costs 175m/100g. If it wants to be multiple units, it needs to cost something more appropriate. --Zerg 3 larva from inject. Major nerf, but needs to be done if the other races are getting big nerfs can't let Zerg overwhelm. --Muta loses regen buff. Muta is making Mech worse, generally limits the response Protoss can make, and would be OP in addition to their next change. --Hydra get their half gas cost. Hydras should be the basic unit of SC2, and whether willingly or unwillingly, the design team is pushing that through and will likely rebalance around it. --Swarm Host remodeled to 3x faster spawn rate, 1/3 duration of spawn, 1/2 the hp, 3/4 the cost. Hybrid between Lurker range and the 50-60 range it has now on creep. But, dodging spines is always better micro than retreating from hostlings. --Viper energy channel rate nerf by 10% energy/s. Vipers are doing great so if left untouched from this OP deflation they would likely become OP. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
So with that in mind, if they're going to bother touching the hydralisk I have to wonder why not experiment with buffing their dps towards biological units. Seems like a very reasonable middle ground given that their goal with this test was to encourage increased hydralisk usage in ZvZ (or rather less roach wars) and more varied compositions in ZvT. Altering their strength against bio units really only affects those two scenarios. mech TvZ is unchanged. PvZ is mostly unchanged. | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
This is just what this game needs imho. After the hydra is buffed，find a good way for Protoss to deal with it (preferably no MSC buff). Then buff the siege tank accordingly to smash hydras (as it should), also helping mech. | ||
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b0rt_
Norway931 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16126 Posts
On February 03 2014 01:05 lowercase wrote: I'm up for hydras getting a gas cost slash, but to compensate there will have to be nerfs to the unit (hp/armor/damage). Ghost buff isn't really necessary either, in my opinion. It's already the best caster in the game and extremely powerful in the right hands. Lower the cost and research time of the energy upgrade if you want, but don't make it free. Best caster in the game? That's why we only see it in ONE match up. These are the kinds of incredibly biased statements that don't go anywhere in a balance discussion. | ||
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