EPTIMO they should make the Ghost into a gas heavy unit again but since they want ghost + mech to be a thing that will never happen.
SC2 Balance Changes: Pros' Impressions - Page 10
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Necosarius
Sweden4042 Posts
IMO they should make the Ghost into a gas heavy unit again but since they want ghost + mech to be a thing that will never happen. | ||
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Damngood
16 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 03 2014 03:13 Big J wrote: yeah. And Protoss always has and always will. And people will alway whine about it. And blizzard will increase the viability of other playstyles more. And then the community will whine more about Protoss being too unpredictable.  What other playstyles? | ||
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Paragleiber
413 Posts
(Ghost buff rather helping bio and not mech) | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
sorry, "try" to increase the viability of other playstyles. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 03 2014 03:29 Big J wrote: sorry, "try" to increase the viability of other playstyles. But what do you call "other playstyles"? | ||
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Finalmastery
United States58 Posts
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Qwerty85
Croatia5536 Posts
In WoL, observer could be sniped and therefore delay the push. In TvT once you lose your high ground vision, you need to retreat. In Hots TvP, huge sight radius + low range on terran early game units like marines make high ground vision uncontested and allow protoss to put pressure for as long as they want. This is incredibly bad for the game because it considerably increases number of entry points on blink favored maps. I also agree that reducing PO by 10 seconds means nothing because the threat of protoss aggression alone makes it impossible for terran to be on the map. It is like going on the map with "naked marines" against speedlings. As far as time warp goes, it is true that the first one is most important. No matter if it is casted on the ramp to prevent army from coming down or if protoss blinks next to a vespene geyser and slows down terran units by casting that 1st time warp, it is almost always that 1st one that decides the outcome of the blink aggression. | ||
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doktorLucifer
United States855 Posts
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LingBlingBling
United States353 Posts
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
Of all of these comments, mini guns seems to take the big picture view the most. TLO is also very unbiased here except for not realizing the insignificance of the mscore change in tvp | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Things that are not "sit back and build Colossi. then hit a timing". E.g. they introduced recall and oracles for that reason in HotS. They buffed warp prisms twice to give protoss nondeathball options. they redesigned the VR and it allows for airbased play in ZvP. They did a lot to move Protoss away from defensive Collossus and Sentry turtle. Now the problem is that P can play too many aggressvie openings and play macro from them. Im not happy with TvP either, but it's quite hypocritical to have people whine about oracle openings not being an autoloss when scouted but on the same page whine about Protoss design leading to deathball play. Well, nondeathball play means you have units that do damage and get away and are viable. That's what the speedbuff did. now it's time to give Terran options to force Protoss to use those tools more often. (and do something against blink allins imo) | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
On February 03 2014 03:54 fighter2_40 wrote: It's interesting to see the pros opinions but seeing them is really revealing of their racial biases. Some pros decline from commenting on matchups they don't play but others make blanket statements about unit changes without considering all matchups. It's also disgusting how biased some are towards their own race: mma (perhaps as a joke) and mostly desrow. Of all of these comments, mini guns seems to take the big picture view the most. TLO is also very unbiased here except for not realizing the insignificance of the mscore change in tvp How am I biased when I say that the photon overcharge nerf is good and that the defenders advantage should be reduced for Protoss ?!!? The timewarp comment was meant more of a joke/stab at the balance whiners but 75 is too good and 100 should help. A lot of the feedback on the timewarp change is negative while I think it will help a lot because a fresh mothershipcore will take a lot longer to be useful. | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
Blizzard should focus more on making the game fun with more useful spells, build options, and dynamic units. They spend to much time on these micro fixes to help with one scenario in one matchup. Those are the situations that the pros should be able to figure out their own balance if the dynamics of the game allowed it. We are on a path where each unit is going to do 5 different damages and all upgrades will be free. Blizzard is just patching themselves in a circle. | ||
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
If you ask me, they should just nerf both units they're trying to make balanced and work from there instead of just buffing everything each time...maybe they'll find a median from it afterwards? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 03 2014 03:59 Big J wrote: Things that are not "sit back and build Colossi. then hit a timing". E.g. they introduced recall and oracles for that reason in HotS. They buffed warp prisms twice to give protoss nondeathball options. they redesigned the VR and it allows for airbased play in ZvP. They did a lot to move Protoss away from defensive Collossus and Sentry turtle. Now the problem is that P can play too many aggressvie openings and play macro from them. Im not happy with TvP either, but it's quite hypocritical to have people whine about oracle openings not being an autoloss when scouted but on the same page whine about Protoss design leading to deathball play. Well, nondeathball play means you have units that do damage and get away and are viable. That's what the speedbuff did. now it's time to give Terran options to force Protoss to use those tools more often. (and do something against blink allins imo) Thing is, just because you send an Oracle or some Zealots for harass doesn't mean you're not building some "deathball" at home. Oracles being out of control or Zealots raids rampaging Terran bases would not be a problem if, meanwhile, Protoss' army was not growing exponentially stronger thanks to the accumulation of "terrible, terrible damage" units. It's good that they tried to "normalize" Protoss play, but they completely failed to properly balance it. For instance, you cannot have the best harass and the best lategame; it makes no sense. | ||
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
On February 03 2014 04:00 desRow wrote: How am I biased when I say that the photon overcharge nerf is good and that the defenders advantage should be reduced for Protoss ?!!? The timewarp comment was meant more of a joke/stab at the balance whiners but 75 is too good and 100 should help. A lot of the feedback on the timewarp change is negative while I think it will help a lot because a fresh mothershipcore will take a lot longer to be useful. Hi Des, I guess I am being a bit harsh in my wording. The "bias" that I was seeing here is how accepting you were to the overcharge nerf. It's a very minor and although I can't comment on PvP, I'm gona have to agree with the majority of responses here in saying that it will do nothing for TvP. When we accept a change, we are inadvertently rejecting other changes such as the proposed vision nerf on the mscore, which would be a bigger nerf to protoss. Perhaps you didn't mean it like that but I think it's time for the community to realize that by accepting a balance change, we are foregoing alternative changes that may help the game design a bit more. | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
On February 03 2014 04:11 TheDwf wrote: Thing is, just because you send an Oracle or some Zealots for harass doesn't mean you're not building some "deathball" at home. Oracles being out of control or Zealots raids rampaging Terran bases would not be a problem if, meanwhile, Protoss' army was not growing exponentially stronger thanks to the accumulation of "terrible, terrible damage" units. It's good that they tried to "normalize" Protoss play, but they completely failed to properly balance it. For instance, you cannot have the best harass and the best lategame; it makes no sense. spot on, trying to give protoss non deathball tools that are extremely powerful while still leaving the deathball untouched is insane. | ||
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SirNomNom
United States14 Posts
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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