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On January 25 2014 12:06 AxiomBlurr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 11:14 Survivor61316 wrote:On January 25 2014 11:11 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Impressed with the power of Toss these days...but equally so with Zerg too...
Yet in all honesty...I Feel the Terrans in code A failed to perform...
They can only blame themselves... God I hope youre joking Why do you say that? They did fail to perform...15 in Code A with 2 qualifying...its easy and convenient to blame others and/or balance...but the Terran play we saw from, Flash to Innovation, was lacklustre...Who qualified? Byong and Supernova...both played exceptionally well...and did not fail to perform. As for Toss and Zerg Power - - yes I am impressed. 15 Toss and 13 Zerg in GSL Code S is nothing to laugh at. Terrans for the most part got ktfo. Deal with it.
You are by far one of the dumbest people I've ever had the misfortune of crossing paths with. So according to you, the easy answer is that all of these top Korean Terrans just failed to perform at the same time? So even though they had a 21% win ratio in TvPs, that they only won one set against Toss collectively, and that the only Terrans to advance didn't play/lost to a Toss, it was just a general lackluster performance on their part as to why 2/15 Terrans advanced?? Are you serious right now? I'm going to stick with the much more obvious and simpler solution, and say that their race is currently underpowered versus the other two right now..I tend to like logic though, a trait you clearly do not share. These are professional players genius. There is not a snowball's chance in hell that so many of them just didn't perform all at once. The simple law of averages clearly disputes such an outrageous claim. For you two think otherwise just boggles my mind (you play Toss I'm guessing).
And fyi, Innovation has not been a top Terran for a while now, and Flash has not performed well in individual leagues since the first MLG of HotS..
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On January 25 2014 12:03 Waise wrote:
i do think terran is weak against p and maybe very very marginally weak against z right now, but the number of players in code s doesn't really mean anything. it's not that statistically outrageous for a bunch of terrans to just play poorly while the race is also slightly weak. there has to be some responsibility on the players to actually play out the games; it's not as if the distribution should be equal if terran players don't perform
In a balanced game the number of players representing each race at any level of play should be even, allowing for slight variations for the best players in the world (3-5 players at most) and the human factor throwing off a perfect equilibrium. When you have 11/16 and 11/17 advancing for Zerg and Toss respectively but only 2/15 Terran players, that is no where close to even. Not even in the same ball park. Why would only Terran players not perform while the other two races do? Especially when you're dealing with some of the best players in the world who can almost play this game in their sleep they know it so well? Is the most obvious answer not that its not that they weren't performing, but that they couldn't perform well due to playing with an underpowered race? It's a simple law of averages man.
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On January 25 2014 13:04 Survivor61316 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 12:06 AxiomBlurr wrote:On January 25 2014 11:14 Survivor61316 wrote:On January 25 2014 11:11 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Impressed with the power of Toss these days...but equally so with Zerg too...
Yet in all honesty...I Feel the Terrans in code A failed to perform...
They can only blame themselves... God I hope youre joking Why do you say that? They did fail to perform...15 in Code A with 2 qualifying...its easy and convenient to blame others and/or balance...but the Terran play we saw from, Flash to Innovation, was lacklustre...Who qualified? Byong and Supernova...both played exceptionally well...and did not fail to perform. As for Toss and Zerg Power - - yes I am impressed. 15 Toss and 13 Zerg in GSL Code S is nothing to laugh at. Terrans for the most part got ktfo. Deal with it. You are by far one of the dumbest people I've ever had the misfortune of crossing paths with. So according to you, the easy answer is that all of these top Korean Terrans just failed to perform at the same time? So even though they had a 21% win ratio in TvPs, that they only won one set against Toss collectively, and that the only Terrans to advance didn't play/lost to a Toss, it was just a general lackluster performance on their part as to why 2/15 Terrans advanced?? Are you serious right now? I'm going to stick with the much more obvious and simpler solution, and say that their race is currently underpowered versus the other two right now..I tend to like logic though, a trait you clearly do not share. These are professional players genius. There is not a snowball's chance in hell that so many of them just didn't perform all at once. The simple law of averages clearly disputes such an outrageous claim. For you two think otherwise just boggles my mind (you play Toss I'm guessing). And fyi, Innovation has not been a top Terran for a while now, and Flash has not performed well in individual leagues since the first MLG of HotS..
1) Emotional personal accusations have dulled your arguement.
2) I play random.
3) Supernova had Stats beaten but engaged horribly on Habitation Station.
4) It is 'for you to' - not 'for you two.'
5) U mad bro?
6) Terran is a little underpowered vs the other two races...but for the most part they got knocked out because they failed to perform. To say otherwise is just lacking in objectivity. In the GSL in which there were only 5 Toss players..the situation was the same; P was a little underpowered but overall...it was a failure to perform that dropped the numbers so heavily.
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If you would have told me in 2011 a day would come when I would see a GSL Code S with only 3 Terrans I wouldn't have believed it. Even though I am not a Terran player, all of my favourite matchups to watch include Terran in it, so I am a bit sad. On the bright side, guess I can learn a lot about PvP and PvZ this tournament.
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Doesn't "umad" get an automatic ban on TL?
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On January 25 2014 13:14 Survivor61316 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 12:03 Waise wrote:
i do think terran is weak against p and maybe very very marginally weak against z right now, but the number of players in code s doesn't really mean anything. it's not that statistically outrageous for a bunch of terrans to just play poorly while the race is also slightly weak. there has to be some responsibility on the players to actually play out the games; it's not as if the distribution should be equal if terran players don't perform In a balanced game the number of players representing each race at any level of play should be even, allowing for slight variations for the best players in the world (3-5 players at most) and the human factor throwing off a perfect equilibrium. When you have 11/16 and 11/17 advancing for Zerg and Toss respectively but only 2/15 Terran players, that is no where close to even. Not even in the same ball park. Why would only Terran players not perform while the other two races do? Especially when you're dealing with some of the best players in the world who can almost play this game in their sleep they know it so well? Is the most obvious answer not that its not that they weren't performing, but that they couldn't perform well due to playing with an underpowered race? It's a simple law of averages man.
Well seeing as how there were 20 Terrans in just 2011 with only 5 Protoss, now that the roles are reversed, wouldn't your logic declare that it is simply the "law of averages" balancing itself out?
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Canada3132 Posts
On January 25 2014 15:11 ArTiFaKs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 13:14 Survivor61316 wrote:On January 25 2014 12:03 Waise wrote:
i do think terran is weak against p and maybe very very marginally weak against z right now, but the number of players in code s doesn't really mean anything. it's not that statistically outrageous for a bunch of terrans to just play poorly while the race is also slightly weak. there has to be some responsibility on the players to actually play out the games; it's not as if the distribution should be equal if terran players don't perform In a balanced game the number of players representing each race at any level of play should be even, allowing for slight variations for the best players in the world (3-5 players at most) and the human factor throwing off a perfect equilibrium. When you have 11/16 and 11/17 advancing for Zerg and Toss respectively but only 2/15 Terran players, that is no where close to even. Not even in the same ball park. Why would only Terran players not perform while the other two races do? Especially when you're dealing with some of the best players in the world who can almost play this game in their sleep they know it so well? Is the most obvious answer not that its not that they weren't performing, but that they couldn't perform well due to playing with an underpowered race? It's a simple law of averages man. Well seeing as how there were 20 Terrans in just 2011 with only 5 Protoss, now that the roles are reversed, wouldn't your logic declare that it is simply the "law of averages" balancing itself out?
While I don't agree with Survivor, you're discounting all the patches that nerfed Terran and buffed other races. If there were no patches, your point would hold merit. 
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On January 25 2014 15:11 ArTiFaKs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 13:14 Survivor61316 wrote:On January 25 2014 12:03 Waise wrote:
i do think terran is weak against p and maybe very very marginally weak against z right now, but the number of players in code s doesn't really mean anything. it's not that statistically outrageous for a bunch of terrans to just play poorly while the race is also slightly weak. there has to be some responsibility on the players to actually play out the games; it's not as if the distribution should be equal if terran players don't perform In a balanced game the number of players representing each race at any level of play should be even, allowing for slight variations for the best players in the world (3-5 players at most) and the human factor throwing off a perfect equilibrium. When you have 11/16 and 11/17 advancing for Zerg and Toss respectively but only 2/15 Terran players, that is no where close to even. Not even in the same ball park. Why would only Terran players not perform while the other two races do? Especially when you're dealing with some of the best players in the world who can almost play this game in their sleep they know it so well? Is the most obvious answer not that its not that they weren't performing, but that they couldn't perform well due to playing with an underpowered race? It's a simple law of averages man. Well seeing as how there were 20 Terrans in just 2011 with only 5 Protoss, now that the roles are reversed, wouldn't your logic declare that it is simply the "law of averages" balancing itself out?
it was 20 terrans for 1 GSL in october for 2011.
Personally, to say "now its protoss's time" like many Protoss players like to post, I wouldn't consider it actual progress when it comes to balance, just reversed.
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On January 25 2014 14:56 AxiomBlurr wrote:
3) Supernova had Stats beaten but engaged horribly on Habitation Station.
How the heck did he have Stats beaten at any point of that game? He had no anti-air, no engagement could've changed that fact.
The best he could do at the point he notices the carriers is to sacrifice his ground army to kill as many bases as possible while building up anti-air back home. Its a desperation move but theres not much else you can do as a meching terran when you get caught so badly off guard with an air switch. There wasnt a single point where Supernova was ahead in that game, let alone had his opponent "beaten".
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On January 25 2014 15:27 Armada Vega wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 15:11 ArTiFaKs wrote:On January 25 2014 13:14 Survivor61316 wrote:On January 25 2014 12:03 Waise wrote:
i do think terran is weak against p and maybe very very marginally weak against z right now, but the number of players in code s doesn't really mean anything. it's not that statistically outrageous for a bunch of terrans to just play poorly while the race is also slightly weak. there has to be some responsibility on the players to actually play out the games; it's not as if the distribution should be equal if terran players don't perform In a balanced game the number of players representing each race at any level of play should be even, allowing for slight variations for the best players in the world (3-5 players at most) and the human factor throwing off a perfect equilibrium. When you have 11/16 and 11/17 advancing for Zerg and Toss respectively but only 2/15 Terran players, that is no where close to even. Not even in the same ball park. Why would only Terran players not perform while the other two races do? Especially when you're dealing with some of the best players in the world who can almost play this game in their sleep they know it so well? Is the most obvious answer not that its not that they weren't performing, but that they couldn't perform well due to playing with an underpowered race? It's a simple law of averages man. Well seeing as how there were 20 Terrans in just 2011 with only 5 Protoss, now that the roles are reversed, wouldn't your logic declare that it is simply the "law of averages" balancing itself out? it was 20 terrans for 1 GSL in october for 2011. Personally, to say "now its protoss's time" like many Protoss players like to post, I wouldn't consider it actual progress when it comes to balance, just reversed.
Yeah, even as a Protoss player I would be happy with seeing some Terran buffs to help them out.
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A sick part of me wants all three terrans to get knocked out in the Ro32, just for history's sake. I'm a little bit twisted in that I enjoy watching masses of people complaining about balance. Maybe I need help =(
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Surprised that GOM hasnt announced anything related to the last spot, considering theres only 5 days until the lunar new year and Code S starts right after that
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I like how everyone is talking about how OP Protoss is when Zerg has 13 spots....
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On January 25 2014 16:34 LongShot27 wrote:
I like how everyone is talking about how OP Protoss is when Zerg has 13 spots....
That's because ZvP and ZvT have pretty solid winrates but nothing absolutely ridiculous like the 80%ish winrate in PvT.
Also the existence of Daedalus point warps the winrates towards zerg when they pick it against every terran or protoss. Its a horrible map that should have never been introduced but it doesnt translate into zerg being OP. The map needs to be removed ASAP or they need to introduce map vetos.
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shiit i can't see any of the terrans making it past the Ro8 either
shit, besides maru of cause
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On January 25 2014 16:43 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 16:34 LongShot27 wrote:
I like how everyone is talking about how OP Protoss is when Zerg has 13 spots.... That's because ZvP and ZvT have pretty solid winrates but nothing absolutely ridiculous like the 80%ish winrate in PvT. Also the existence of Daedalus point warps the winrates towards zerg when they pick it against every terran or protoss. Its a horrible map that should have never been introduced but it doesnt translate into zerg being OP. The map needs to be removed ASAP or they need to introduce map vetos.
See, this might actually be a good argument except everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that the current map pool also favors Protoss. Yeonsu is great for all-ins (blink especially) against terran, and all-ins against zerg are quite good on this map as well, Polar Night another blink favored map, and Heavy Rain another blink favored map. Some consider Alterzirim Stronghold another Protoss favored map because of the easily controlled 3 bases. So that's 4 maps out of the entire map pool that are favored for Protoss, so you would expect certain results to be skewed when looking at it essentially just by the map pool. But you also take into account that Terran's that were expected to qualify but played very underwhelming (Innovation, Flash, Ryung, even Dream and Fantasy) and other Terran's that just looked outclassed (TheBest, SkyHigh). And considering 2 Terran's in the last group with no Protoss failed to qualify, and it's not like they were up against superstar level Zerg players, either.
There are a lot of factors playing into the fact that so few Terran qualified for Code S, and putting the blame solely on "Protoss OP" is just silly and ignores the facts. The winrate for Code A in TvP is pretty one-sided, but it was the reverse for Proleague just last weekend.
But people are going to complain no matter what, so really I don't even know why I bother with this shit. It's just really getting super annoying listening to all these Terran players bitch about this crap in every single thread.
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On January 25 2014 15:27 Armada Vega wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 15:11 ArTiFaKs wrote:On January 25 2014 13:14 Survivor61316 wrote:On January 25 2014 12:03 Waise wrote:
i do think terran is weak against p and maybe very very marginally weak against z right now, but the number of players in code s doesn't really mean anything. it's not that statistically outrageous for a bunch of terrans to just play poorly while the race is also slightly weak. there has to be some responsibility on the players to actually play out the games; it's not as if the distribution should be equal if terran players don't perform In a balanced game the number of players representing each race at any level of play should be even, allowing for slight variations for the best players in the world (3-5 players at most) and the human factor throwing off a perfect equilibrium. When you have 11/16 and 11/17 advancing for Zerg and Toss respectively but only 2/15 Terran players, that is no where close to even. Not even in the same ball park. Why would only Terran players not perform while the other two races do? Especially when you're dealing with some of the best players in the world who can almost play this game in their sleep they know it so well? Is the most obvious answer not that its not that they weren't performing, but that they couldn't perform well due to playing with an underpowered race? It's a simple law of averages man. Well seeing as how there were 20 Terrans in just 2011 with only 5 Protoss, now that the roles are reversed, wouldn't your logic declare that it is simply the "law of averages" balancing itself out? it was 20 terrans for 1 GSL in october for 2011. Personally, to say "now its protoss's time" like many Protoss players like to post, I wouldn't consider it actual progress when it comes to balance, just reversed.
Lol honestly you guys think I was being serious? Thank you for proving my point about how retarded his argument was.
And addressing your statement about how it was "1 GSL in October 2011", we can say the same about how "this is 1 GSL in January 2014". So if that is the basis of your reasoning about why this is just the end of the world, I would say recent history shows that things work out in the end. The game didn't die when there were 20 Terran? So suggesting it will now is just ridiculous. They are obviously looking at the matchup in the recent balance test maps, so I would assume that nerfs/buffs are coming soon. So i'll continue to enjoy this short time where Terran's don't just dominate every tournament around the world like they have been doing since the beginning of Starcraft time.
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don't worry guys we will have the final 4 consisting the 3 terrans + Life
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Its funny how Terrans used to "be just better" then all the protoss and zerg. Now looking back we all realize/knew that it was imbalanced. Now all the Protoss and Zerg are "just better" then the Terrans. Now some of us know that its imbalanced and others will look back and realize that it was.
Whether Protoss needs a nerf or Terran needs a buff in general I'm not 100% on right now.
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EPT
