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Constructive criticism is welcome, but no mindless SC2/Developer bashing in this thread. |
On January 28 2014 02:35 Gullis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 02:00 Micro_Jackson wrote:On January 28 2014 01:42 geokilla wrote:On January 27 2014 22:39 xelnaga_empire wrote:Was watching Taeja stream tonight. He was only playing Zerg and Protoss. And then he said this: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IWkzPbb.png) Feel so sad  It's true. Terran is bad. Have you seen Taeja own with Protoss? God he might as well switch races. Can he? Not on his level. And beeing good on offracing on ladder doesn´t win you tournaments. The only 2 players that switched races and had some success afterwards were Morrow and TLO and, without offense to these guys they aren´t highest level of play. Also Terran is fine as long as you are TY, Flash, Maru or Teaja i think everyone else is just waiting for LotV or retiring. Didnt Classic switch from Terran to Protoss?
Yes and he is doing well with a champion title with STX and he is 3-0 this season.
And Terrans are OK in Proleague (not only TY, Flash and Maru).
Balance problems are as much Blizzard fault as map maker fault 
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On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do!
You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing.
Please think before you speak.
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On January 28 2014 03:39 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do! You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing. Please think before you speak.
Actually colossus friendly fire might just be balanced. Would be pretty interesting to test this and see the difference.
The high health of toss units + the shape of the damage would make friendly fire quite a small problem, compared to the friendly fire siege tanks do. How often have you seen casters call out "great storms" while the storm actually did more damage to following Berserkers and Archons? 200 dmg on a few Bio units is a far bigger deal then 300 dmg on a few Berserkers and Archons. Terrans for a log time had to focus fire tanks while they microed bio. I fail to see why this proposal is so crazy.
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United States7483 Posts
On January 28 2014 04:07 submarine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 03:39 DinoMight wrote:On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do! You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing. Please think before you speak. Actually colossus friendly fire might just be balanced. Would be pretty interesting to test this and see the difference. The high health of toss units + the shape of the damage would make friendly fire quite a small problem, compared to the friendly fire siege tanks do. How often have you seen casters call out "great storms" while the storm actually did more damage to following Berserkers and Archons? 200 dmg on a few Bio units is a far bigger deal then 300 dmg on a few Berserkers and Archons. Terrans for a log time had to focus fire tanks while they microed bio. I fail to see why this proposal is so crazy.
What is a berserker?
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Hydra buff might mean more hydras in zvt=more use for siegetanks! Mega mutaballs are not fun to play against, and this might mean zergs get another way to kill medivacs.
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On January 28 2014 04:31 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:07 submarine wrote:On January 28 2014 03:39 DinoMight wrote:On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do! You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing. Please think before you speak. Actually colossus friendly fire might just be balanced. Would be pretty interesting to test this and see the difference. The high health of toss units + the shape of the damage would make friendly fire quite a small problem, compared to the friendly fire siege tanks do. How often have you seen casters call out "great storms" while the storm actually did more damage to following Berserkers and Archons? 200 dmg on a few Bio units is a far bigger deal then 300 dmg on a few Berserkers and Archons. Terrans for a log time had to focus fire tanks while they microed bio. I fail to see why this proposal is so crazy. What is a berserker?
german word for zealot.
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On January 28 2014 04:31 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:07 submarine wrote:On January 28 2014 03:39 DinoMight wrote:On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do! You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing. Please think before you speak. Actually colossus friendly fire might just be balanced. Would be pretty interesting to test this and see the difference. The high health of toss units + the shape of the damage would make friendly fire quite a small problem, compared to the friendly fire siege tanks do. How often have you seen casters call out "great storms" while the storm actually did more damage to following Berserkers and Archons? 200 dmg on a few Bio units is a far bigger deal then 300 dmg on a few Berserkers and Archons. Terrans for a log time had to focus fire tanks while they microed bio. I fail to see why this proposal is so crazy. What is a berserker?
Really. Can't figure that out by yourself or is this an attempt at being funny?
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United States7483 Posts
On January 28 2014 04:35 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:31 Whitewing wrote:On January 28 2014 04:07 submarine wrote:On January 28 2014 03:39 DinoMight wrote:On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do! You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing. Please think before you speak. Actually colossus friendly fire might just be balanced. Would be pretty interesting to test this and see the difference. The high health of toss units + the shape of the damage would make friendly fire quite a small problem, compared to the friendly fire siege tanks do. How often have you seen casters call out "great storms" while the storm actually did more damage to following Berserkers and Archons? 200 dmg on a few Bio units is a far bigger deal then 300 dmg on a few Berserkers and Archons. Terrans for a log time had to focus fire tanks while they microed bio. I fail to see why this proposal is so crazy. What is a berserker? Really. Can't figure that out by yourself or is this an attempt at being funny?
He said 300 damage on berserkers: since zealots have way less hp than that, I thought I might be missing something.
Yes: doing 300 damage to your own zealots is a big deal. Against terran, the function of the zealots is to soak damage from the bio ball so your stuff actually lives long enough to do damage. Try fighting a terran bioball without zealots and see how well that goes for you.
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It would be nice if the hydra cost change went through accompanied by a nerf. For LotV I want them to be reduced to 1 supply and given an acid spit upgrade that gives +x bio damage. Slightly better against all zerg units, usable against terran bio but not better vs mech. Also they will make a spitting sound similar to the one in bw.
Locust should move slower, last longer and do more damage but have less health so they die even faster to splash like colossous or siege tank fire. The purpose of this change is to encourage them to be used in conjunction with overlord drops: Drop the swarmhost and burrow, spawn locust, pickup swarmhost then move somewhere else and repeat. Just a couple of ideas.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Locust should move slower, last longer and do more damage but have less health so they die even faster to splash like colossous or siege tank fire. The purpose of this change is to encourage them to be used in conjunction with overlord drops: Drop the swarmhost and burrow, spawn locust, pickup swarmhost then move somewhere else and repeat. Just a couple of ideas.
You know that overlord drops with current swarm hosts don't work at all?
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On January 28 2014 04:07 submarine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 03:39 DinoMight wrote:On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do! You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing. Please think before you speak. Actually colossus friendly fire might just be balanced. Would be pretty interesting to test this and see the difference. The high health of toss units + the shape of the damage would make friendly fire quite a small problem, compared to the friendly fire siege tanks do. How often have you seen casters call out "great storms" while the storm actually did more damage to following Berserkers and Archons? 200 dmg on a few Bio units is a far bigger deal then 300 dmg on a few Berserkers and Archons. Terrans for a log time had to focus fire tanks while they microed bio. I fail to see why this proposal is so crazy.
Besides, the damage values can always be tweaked. Slower, harder attack would give a Protoss more time to manual target.
Also the AoE shape can be tweaked. A few pages ago I suggested making the Colossus attack in a straight line from feet to its target (and past). This would really hurt any Protoss who used the Colossus as part of a deathball, and really help any Protoss who took advantage of the Colossus's maneuverability to flank enemy armies.
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On January 28 2014 04:38 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:35 SC2Toastie wrote:On January 28 2014 04:31 Whitewing wrote:On January 28 2014 04:07 submarine wrote:On January 28 2014 03:39 DinoMight wrote:On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do! You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing. Please think before you speak. Actually colossus friendly fire might just be balanced. Would be pretty interesting to test this and see the difference. The high health of toss units + the shape of the damage would make friendly fire quite a small problem, compared to the friendly fire siege tanks do. How often have you seen casters call out "great storms" while the storm actually did more damage to following Berserkers and Archons? 200 dmg on a few Bio units is a far bigger deal then 300 dmg on a few Berserkers and Archons. Terrans for a log time had to focus fire tanks while they microed bio. I fail to see why this proposal is so crazy. What is a berserker? Really. Can't figure that out by yourself or is this an attempt at being funny? He said 300 damage on berserkers: since zealots have way less hp than that, I thought I might be missing something. Yes: doing 300 damage to your own zealots is a big deal. Against terran, the function of the zealots is to soak damage from the bio ball so your stuff actually lives long enough to do damage. Try fighting a terran bioball without zealots and see how well that goes for you.
When toss goes for chargelot archon with hts it happens quite often that storms deal more damage to your own units then to the terran units. Those storms can still be worth it because terran units have far less HP especially after stim.
I would be surprised if friendly fire on colossus made a big difference, because of the high health of toss units and the shape of the splash. Such a change would help to differentiate between toss players that mindlessly attack and those that put in the effort. IMHO toss armies are a little bit too insensitive to bad or no micro. It is quite hilarious how Dinomight thinks that friendly fire on colossus is such an crazy idea, while terrans also have to focus fire their tanks to get full efficiency.
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On January 28 2014 05:01 Existor wrote:Show nested quote +Locust should move slower, last longer and do more damage but have less health so they die even faster to splash like colossous or siege tank fire. The purpose of this change is to encourage them to be used in conjunction with overlord drops: Drop the swarmhost and burrow, spawn locust, pickup swarmhost then move somewhere else and repeat. Just a couple of ideas. You know that overlord drops with current swarm hosts don't work at all?
Yes, that is why I proposed a change to encourage it to be used in drops. It's just an idea.
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I have browsed TL forums quite some and many a time have i come across alot of good ideas suggested by memebers of the comminity on how to make starcraft 2 a better game. However it's all been for naught as Blizzard care not what you have to say unless you're on their payroll. Instead they seem to firmly believe that if they just reach real far up their own asses they might just find that magic solution to the current meta problems and thus it has been suggested to give tempest a bonus damage to buildings as an answer to...something, i think? Anyway it's sounds so arbitrary to me you might a well just hand over all the balance responsibilities to a 10 year old.
This is why we still have sentries, warpgate and maps where your main base is located one level above your natural with a mandatory one-forcefield sized ramp attached.
It's not the worst patch in sc2 history but taking just that, history, into consideration i'd say they'd have to do alot better than this feces covered atrocity they call a patch.
I am Jacks' sense of utter disappointment.
User was warned for this post
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On January 28 2014 03:39 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do! You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing. Please think before you speak.
The biggest problem is the charge upgrade, what makes 1a zealots really good, compared to non micro MMM
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On January 28 2014 06:36 matthy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 03:39 DinoMight wrote:On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do! You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing. Please think before you speak. The biggest problem is the charge upgrade, what makes 1a zealots really good, compared to non micro MMM
It's a melee unit, there's not many other ways to micro it in big battles than 1a, you need your apm for other units... zealots are basically supposed to tank, force kiting then back up to let rest of army catch up and be a constant meat shield; nothing more, nothing less. The concept of colossi doing splash damage is just so so silly and will never happen.
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All splash units that deal friendly fire have very slow attack cooldowns (or are spells) and you have a chance to target your attacks this way. (fungal, storm, reaver) I don't think a colossus that fires once per second should deal friendly fire.
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Reaver does not deal friendly fire.
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On January 28 2014 04:34 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:31 Whitewing wrote:On January 28 2014 04:07 submarine wrote:On January 28 2014 03:39 DinoMight wrote:On January 25 2014 23:18 odem wrote:On January 25 2014 08:07 tadL wrote:Still no patch that gives Zerg and Protoss the same advantage of friendly fire like terrans have? is ur post supposed to make sense? its exactly the opposite. zerg and protoss have the advantage because they dont receive friendly fire from almost all of their splash units and can just go yolo swag a-move with it (even storm isnt really a thread to zealot/stalker compared to marine/ling instant death). on the other hand terran receives critical damage from tank/mine and hsm! it would only be fair to make fungal / coloss friendly fire aswell so kids would have to micro their shit the same way terrans have to do! You forget the part where Terran has no melee units. How exactly are you supposed to micro Colossus fire against marines when zealots are in melee range of those same marines. Same with ling/bane. The amount of micro needed to properly engage would be out of this universe. You'd need 800 apm just to take a fight the way you do now by 1A-ing. Please think before you speak. Actually colossus friendly fire might just be balanced. Would be pretty interesting to test this and see the difference. The high health of toss units + the shape of the damage would make friendly fire quite a small problem, compared to the friendly fire siege tanks do. How often have you seen casters call out "great storms" while the storm actually did more damage to following Berserkers and Archons? 200 dmg on a few Bio units is a far bigger deal then 300 dmg on a few Berserkers and Archons. Terrans for a log time had to focus fire tanks while they microed bio. I fail to see why this proposal is so crazy. What is a berserker? german word for zealot.
That's pretty cool. Quite appropriate too.
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On January 28 2014 07:21 Squat wrote:
Reaver does not deal friendly fire.
Oh, so I'm pointlessly avoiding my zealots?
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