EPTStarbow - Page 58
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rift
1819 Posts
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On January 17 2014 02:59 NukeD wrote: Are you sure? SC2BW uses a way more modified unit pathing than this. Also do you know if they tried it why they havent stuck with it? We have tried ported SC2BW pathing triggers. Too klunky, I remade them into data for more efficiency and easier tweaking. Smoothed it out quite a bit. It has always been somewhat intrusive, so the more competitive higher level players would always get frustrated with it at one point or another. It can interfere with micro, armies getting around corners, armies trying to retreat. Big things on the pathing no no list, pushing off: that can be extremely frustrating for new players and even old bw players. It also is a bit wonky and weird. Looks great, but in practice it isn't that hot compared to both BW and SC2 pathing. Units do really weird stuff with it. Unit radiuses: These are okay to increase just a teensy tiny bit, but the unit radius NEEDS to be respective of the actual unit size. Otherwise aoe will look like it didn't hit a unit when it did, or when trying to put units in a tighter space or fitting them through tighter chokes it will be awkward. Its not a soft radius like air separation is. There is no easy way to give units a natural more spaced out formation. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On January 17 2014 03:22 decemberscalm wrote: Big things on the pathing no no list, pushing off: You mean NOT pushing off is a "no no"? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On January 17 2014 03:22 decemberscalm wrote: We have tried ported SC2BW pathing triggers. Too klunky, I remade them into data for more efficiency and easier tweaking. Smoothed it out quite a bit. It has always been somewhat intrusive, so the more competitive higher level players would always get frustrated with it at one point or another. It can interfere with micro, armies getting around corners, armies trying to retreat. Big things on the pathing no no list, pushing off: that can be extremely frustrating for new players and even old bw players. It also is a bit wonky and weird. Looks great, but in practice it isn't that hot compared to both BW and SC2 pathing. Units do really weird stuff with it. Unit radiuses: These are okay to increase just a teensy tiny bit, but the unit radius NEEDS to be respective of the actual unit size. Otherwise aoe will look like it didn't hit a unit when it did, or when trying to put units in a tighter space or fitting them through tighter chokes it will be awkward. Its not a soft radius like air separation is. There is no easy way to give units a natural more spaced out formation. Does Starbow have units with more collision size? Also, I recall there being some stat which is "size during movement"(?) which is on 70%(?) and I don't even know if it's a stat or just a pathfinding engine thing(?). | ||
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rebuffering
Canada2436 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
This isn't SC2. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Personally I like to see what I get and nothing else. If units bling up, so be it, at least I know how much space they take up. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On January 17 2014 04:14 Plansix wrote: The problem is if you make the unit size larger than the model, it's hard to tell what can fit where on the map. It also could mess up control for targeting AOEs, since the units will be larger than their model. So while it might prevent clumping, it will negatively effect other aspects of the game. Personally I like to see what I get and nothing else. If units bling up, so be it, at least I know how much space they take up. Units in SC2 always seem smaller than they should be though. But realistically it's not the collision size that's the problem, just the units' tendency to not respect each other's personal boundaries, which is part of the engine design. Imagine all the units are balls made of solid-ish magnetic glue, you can't make them not clump by making them larger. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On January 17 2014 04:13 Laertes wrote: Guys, I've been trying to contact Bisu somehow, with a post in korean explaining explicitly was starbow is and wondering what he thinks/will he play. I think it would be cool for him to at least know about it, so we can get his opinion. I tried for 30 minutes to somehow register of afreeca but being unable to read anything was too huge a barrier and it wouldn't accept any of the usernames I put. Quite frankly, I'd like to send the message myself. We don't want another Jaedong incident, although bisu strikes me as one to appreciate this more than Jaedong perhaps. IF anyone has any leads please PM me, there's gotta be somewhere I can contact bisu in a (semi) accessible way. If anyone knows how to contact bisu and I can't figure out how to get ahold of him myself, I can give you a message a korean friend of mine may be able to translate. Wish me luck in the future, but for now I'm too tired to try anymore. EDIT: Also Idra, you're not gonna like this, but a lot of the limitations are in the SC2 engine. There are workarounds, but editor work is grueling and workarounds can sometimes be so convoluted they are hard to figure out. For a while we couldn't figure out how to make the reaver work. Then we realized if the scarabs are workers and the units they hit are minerals, the scarabs would chase units as if they were a worker(thats why scarabs have the same footprint as workers.) starbow isn't uploaded in korea afaik | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Every time I come back to SC2, I think "ahhhh, units that do what I tell them." | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Nerevar
547 Posts
On January 17 2014 04:04 IdrA wrote: to someone with no knowledge of the technical side of things, it seems like larger collision size would be the answer? it makes things a bit clunkier as units will run into each other when it doesnt look like they should, but at least it doesnt force any movement or take any control away from the player. seems like a good enough tradeoff for less clumping. Just for reference, here is a thread discussing this matter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381747 And here is another that implements it into Xel Naga Caverns. It's fairly old, so I don't know if the map still exists. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=198840 | ||
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features
Ireland160 Posts
Played a TvP and his Vikings couldn't put a dent in them, goliath weren't that good either, though he may not have had goliath range, which naturally would have made a huge difference. | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On January 17 2014 04:23 Plansix wrote: I will take it over other RTS games I have played. Dawn of War and company of heroes were a nightmare if your units started fucking with eachothers pathfinding. Even Rise of Nations degraded into blob nonsense. And don't get me started on the total war games. Every time I come back to SC2, I think "ahhhh, units that do what I tell them." Yeah, frankly I can't understand why people want to go back to a more Brood War style of unit movement. SC2 unit movement is just so crisp and clean. I've played all those other games you've mentioned and I don't even really bother trying to control units individually, there's no point. | ||
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ionONE
Germany605 Posts
idra is back with the bow | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 17 2014 04:30 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Yeah, frankly I can't understand why people want to go back to a more Brood War style of unit movement. SC2 unit movement is just so crisp and clean. I've played all those other games you've mentioned and I don't even really bother trying to control units individually, there's no point. Starcraft 2 has the worst pathfinding, except for all the the other pathfinding systems that have been created. | ||
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