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No Deathballs - Xel Naga

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Cryosin
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States182 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-22 20:49:54
March 06 2011 11:07 GMT
#1
************************************************************************
Hotfix applied:
I recently noticed there was a problem with mining units. Since their size increased, as more and more of them piled up on a mineral line their mining capability significantly increased as well. I will be looking at a reasonable way to fix this issue but in the meantime miners have had their unit sizes reduced back to retail. All other units will remain unchanged.
***********************************************************************




****Important:
I am looking to feature some nice clips in a youtube reel for the mod. Everyone please send me your replays. This will help me find some balance issues as well as make a nice reel for other people to get a feel for the gameplay.

Official channels to find other players playing this mod:
"No Deathballs"
and
"SC Pro"

There might not always be people in them, but stick around while you are on and someone might wander in. If im in there give me a shout out and ill gladly due some games(i have been really busy lately so you might not see me on much).

Thanks for all your feedback and support everyone. I am glad that so many people feel the same way as i do about Starcraft 2.

For everyone that is feeling uneasy, please rest assured i want whats best for the game and gameplay. This is not a rub in blizzards face or any of that. I grew up playing video games and I just want to do everything possible to make the game feel the way i would like it to. All i can say is give the mod a shot and post your feedback, good and bad is all appreciated.




UPDATE********:
Version .2 out now! Please check it out.

Changes:

- Roaches, Zealots and Sentries are now adjusted in size.
- Hellions, Marauders, Stalkers, Immortals and Hydras have had their sizes adjusted.
- New Map Available: "No Deathballs - Steppes of War"

Steppes of War has a wider open field and should allow for more open engagements.

I am looking for a bigger map that has even larger open spaces. If anyone has any suggestions please PM me or post them in this thread. It does not have to be a blizzard map.

No Deathballs(NOW AVAILABLE ON EU!!! Thank you woozie):

No deathballs is basically a mod where i tweaked radius settings down to the thousands place(X.XXX). The goal was to create a game that felt more like Starcraft 1. One of my biggest complaints about Starcraft 2 was the annoying "A-click your Deathball into my Deathball and then press a few buttons". The culprit behind this was how units tended to clump up together into giant balls of death. Although this is a simple change, this radius increase on every unit has so far worked out really well.

The irony: I was expecting the game to feel really unbalanced, due to the fact that it was balanced around this "deathball" fiasco. However, quite the opposite seems to have happened. With this increased radius, the game almost seemed to have balanced itself out:

- Melee units are doing great because the ranged units where not ALL shooting at once(deathball clusterfuck).
- some aoe's needed tweaking, but many felt even more balanced. The colossus still feels powerful, but it doesn't fry everything in sight in half a second(like retail).
- Psy Storm needed a slight radius buff, but it feels very balanced and similar to SC1.
- Engagements overall felt more persistent and continuous rather than rare and quick. Since it takes longer for units to create an arc, micro is important in making sure all your units are attacking. The A-click syndrome is severely diminished.

This is my first mini-mod. My ultimate goal is to create something i like to call, "SC Pro mod". For now this radius fix will hopefully make for some fun and memorable games, but in the future i plan to do even more to make SC 2 feel more competitive than it already is. Feel free to make suggestions.

Screenshots(sorry for the graphics. I had to take them on my laptop).
Please note: Screenshots really do not do this mod justice. You really just have to
play it to understand what really happens.

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

*These screenshots where not manipulated. The units where not manually separated or put through weird circumstances. All units where either a-clicked or right clicked into those positions in one form or another.


Since i only did in-house testing i am certain that i looked over a few things, so this is the beta version. Please feel free to report any bugs, balance issue's or weird unit sizes that don't make sense.

Some things i am watching closely:

Ultralisk + Archon splas
Tank damage vs light(again, this unit size seems to have balanced tanks out quite a bit. I feel as if the nerve to light damage could be reverted. Please test things out to see how it feels).
Zerg in general feel a lot more powerful, but i wouldn't say unbalanced. Please test this out.
Hydra's might be a bit too small.
Stalkers feel a bit large. At first i wanted to reduce their size, but i thought they walked in a very cool formation so i kept it that way. It might be a bit hard to kite stalkers one by one, but overall they still function well.


Units that are not changed:
Zealot
Roach

The roach might prove to be problematic, but the zealots size does not seem to affect the game to any degree. Roach hydra feels pretty potent but it wont be stomping over every unit mix. But i am not a pro gamer so well see.

If you have any balance suggestions, a replay is worth a thousand words(or more!) Please include replays with any balance problems you may find.

Thanks for reading this far. Enjoy the mod!

Unfortunately i do not have a website, so please just browse through the list.
The map is called:
"No Deathballs - Xel Naga"

To play:
Click create custom game, and in the search bar type in: "No Deathballs". It should be the first one to come up.


Cryosin
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States182 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-08 09:46:40
March 06 2011 11:28 GMT
#2
delete(sorry)

Rawr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Sweden624 Posts
March 06 2011 12:05 GMT
#3
Please upload it to EU. I would like to play, but doesn't seem to be there.
Joo Se-Hyuk
Cryosin
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States182 Posts
March 06 2011 12:10 GMT
#4
On March 06 2011 21:05 Rawr wrote:
Please upload it to EU. I would like to play, but doesn't seem to be there.


Do i need a EU account?

I would love to but i dont have access to an EU account.
GP
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1056 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-06 12:25:08
March 06 2011 12:24 GMT
#5
I love this idea! Something definitely to keep in mind though is that Helions seem utterly useless for anything but worker harass now.

btw, your name is ALongSchlong, really?
Cryosin
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States182 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-06 12:37:51
March 06 2011 12:36 GMT
#6
On March 06 2011 21:24 GP wrote:
I love this idea! Something definitely to keep in mind though is that Helions seem utterly useless for anything but worker harass now.

btw, your name is ALongSchlong, really?



Yes, what i found from hellions is that they are completely useless without blue-flame but still have a great role with the upgrade. You do actually need to kite to make them effective now!

Hydras, Lings Marines and Zealots still take a beating.

And ya, im probably gonna change my name back but its gotten me some good laughs so who knows

=D
Cryosin
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States182 Posts
March 06 2011 12:46 GMT
#7
Chat channel for the mod(or future mods) will be "SC Pro" if you want to find other players to play with.
TheRealPaciFist
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1049 Posts
March 07 2011 19:56 GMT
#8
Looks cool, has anybody found it fun?
Second favorite strategy game of all time: Starcraft. First: Go (aka Wei Qi, Paduk, or Igo)
sKo
Profile Joined November 2010
United States45 Posts
March 07 2011 20:43 GMT
#9
Pretty clever idea man. I'll check it out.
"My wife for hire!"
dezi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1536 Posts
March 07 2011 23:14 GMT
#10
Really want to test this Mod, could really improve the game and stop those balls - maybe some splash units need a look afterwards - but i hate those 200 supply fights that look like early engagements.
TPW Member | My Maps @ TL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171486 | Search 'dezi' at EU
Cryosin
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States182 Posts
March 08 2011 04:23 GMT
#11
thanks 4 the replies. The mod is no where close to the top of the popularity list(lol!) so i recommend playing it with a friend and/or practice partner.

The current channel is "SC Pro" if you want to find other players.


@dezi: AOE spells where taken into consideration and their radius' have been adjusted. With more feedback i might fine tune it. I have done a lot of testing with common aoe units(colossus/storm/tanks etc.) in common scenarios, and they felt balanced. This is beta though so more testing shouldnt hurt.
woozie
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden53 Posts
March 08 2011 05:54 GMT
#12
Could you upload this to somekind of SC2 map site? I'm on EU and I can't find it.
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-08 06:06:40
March 08 2011 06:02 GMT
#13
can you please include screenshots or youtube vids? you could generate a lot of discussion i bet! i'm very interested in seeing what this looks like but i don't have to time to play!

On March 06 2011 20:28 Cryosin wrote:
reserved

please do not do this on these forums =P
Moderatorsloppy little slug
bahl sofs tiil
Profile Joined December 2010
United States233 Posts
March 08 2011 06:05 GMT
#14
I like this idea. Compared to Brood War, I feel like this game is very claustrophobic, with all its deathball and crampedness. However, this does seem to throw some curveballs to the pathing system. I had some marines and marauders at the top of and on my ramp and a couple tanks behind them. I told the tanks to go down the ramp and they all got stuck kind of running in circles trying to make way on the ramp. I think either the size needs to be made slightly smaller or the maps all need to be opened up, which is something that I actually favor anyway.
And isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean, all you get is one trick: rational thinking; but, when you're good and crazy, ooohoohoohoohoooo, the sky is the limit!
swiftazn
Profile Joined October 2010
United States36 Posts
March 08 2011 06:07 GMT
#15
thumbs up on this one seems well put together gonna go try it out now =)
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-08 06:50:33
March 08 2011 06:48 GMT
#16
Yea just tried to make a game, it's somewhere around 20 pages down on the customs list. God I hate the way customs are listed ;( Is there a way to search for a game by name that's already made, and not goto create game, search for it by name, then wait for an opponent?
:)
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
March 08 2011 07:08 GMT
#17
This sounds awesome. What are "radius settings?" Unit size? Collision?
Cryosin
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States182 Posts
March 08 2011 08:14 GMT
#18
@bahi:
In regards to unit size relative to map:I was actually thinking about this myself. I was toying with unit size settings and it felt very rough. The units ended up being really small and hard to see(especially units like zerglings and marines). I decided to leave it on radius.
What i actually found is that some of the SC1 unit pathing problems seemed to have magically come to exist. The unit clumping idea could have been blizzards way of "fixing" AI pathing, but thats not what this thread is about. I too have noticed some problems with units trying to run down ramps, and ironically this is similar to what happens in SC1. I will toy with it some more, if necessary ill try to make a bigger map.

@Reborn8u
Well i am glad you at least found the game. My best recommendation is to find someone you know and play it that way. When you make a custom game there is a search bar where you can find any custom game you like(even if you did not download it yet). Why this is not in the custom game list i dont know, ask blizzard =\.

@saracen
Thanks! I did not do any % gains on all units(ie i didnt say, ok everything 50% bigger). All units with .35 radius settings had their size increased to .565. Other units i manually adjusted until it "felt right." Stalkers is a big one i am worried about for now, but i really like how they moved so i kinda kept it that way lol. We will see what really happens.

As for unit collision. Unit collision looks ok. Zerglings arent attacking things from miles away and everything seems to work out.

On average i would say its a 2/3rds increase in size, but some units needed bigger increases(like tech units: immortals, siege tanks etc.).

Screenshots will be posted soon. Sorry i didnt think of that =\.



Cryosin
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States182 Posts
March 08 2011 09:47 GMT
#19
screenshots posted.
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
March 08 2011 11:52 GMT
#20
Wow, that actually looks much nicer than the current SC2 unit sizes. You can actually see individual units like in BW. Just to be clear, it looks like the units stayed the same size, but they don't clump as much. Is that right?
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