I did not do anything else. As you can see in the video, those units still clump up. But look better. (Personal opinion)
However, I also found two problems:
1. The AOE problem, of course.
2. The total DPS of the group is decreased, because the distance of each unit is larger, and units whom are in the back row are not able to attack at once. But it may not hard to solve.
Since I don't speak English very well, I may not reply you guys' replies (if any. I don't know). The words above also shows that players from all over the world don't glad to see the death ball. It is a kind of global problem.
PS: "Unit-Radius" and "Models-Selection Radius"are the key words of units of Data Module in the SC2 Editor.
Well of course it looks better. It's just that the dev team seems to be under the impression that models clipping with each other = good pathfinding ai.
Aesthetically this looks better than what we have currently imo, the spaces in between the units make an army look alot less clumped and neater. However, the radii that you chose might even be a bit too big, I would have made them a bit smaller.
Bigger units like the Thor might become more 'retarded' when giving them commands. Units like the Ultralisk and the Thor have smaller radii than their model so that they are more easy to use and fit through more chokes and clumped armies. This is at the cost of making units cut into each other and makes armies look even more clumped up. David Kim is actually aware of this issue with thors, in the MLG interview, he stated that "Thors actually suffer from an art issue" when asked about the mass Thor game by Thorzain.
dps/area will decrease for many smaller units significantly and aoe spells will potentially be less effective. Major re-balancing will have to occur obviously.
Another thing is that micro could become more difficult if the radius is actually bigger than the model, you might think that your unit can be micro-ed to X position when in fact it cant fit. However people could get used to the actual radius with practice.
Just a clarification question: Do attacks have to hit the unit model or just anywhere within the radius for the attack to count as a 'hit'?
2. The total DPS of the group is decreased, because the distance of each unit is larger, and units whom are in the back row are not able to attack at once.
2. The total DPS of the group is decreased, because the distance of each unit is larger, and units whom are in the back row are not able to attack at once. But it may not hard to solve.
Actually thats how Real RTS actually work. you dont have too solve that. Is up to the player to decide how to engage the enemy and where.
On November 13 2012 17:41 MasterCynical wrote: Aesthetically this looks better than what we have currently imo, the spaces in between the units make an army look alot less clumped and neater. However, the radii that you chose might even be a bit too big, I would have made them a bit smaller.
Bigger units like the Thor might become more 'retarded' when giving them commands. Units like the Ultralisk and the Thor have smaller radii than their model so that they are more easy to use and fit through more chokes and clumped armies. This is at the cost of making units cut into each other and makes armies look even more clumped up. David Kim is actually aware of this issue with thors, in the MLG interview, he stated that "Thors actually suffer from an art issue" when asked about the mass Thor game by Thorzain.
dps/area will decrease for many smaller units significantly and aoe spells will potentially be less effective. Major re-balancing will have to occur obviously.
Another thing is that micro could become more difficult if the radius is actually bigger than the model, you might think that your unit can be micro-ed to X position when in fact it cant fit. However people could get used to the actual radius with practice.
Just a clarification question: Do attacks have to hit the unit model or just anywhere within the radius for the attack to count as a 'hit'?
Thank you for your analysis. But I will not able to make them smaller the next days, because I still have my mid-term exams to prepare.
I don't have the game in my laptop now. But I remember that the "Unit-Radius" is an "invisible" area which is the "effective coverage" that a unit to receive damage (No matter how big or small the unit is). The "Models-Selection Radius" is just a circle with colors.
On November 13 2012 17:51 eviltomahawk wrote: There was a custom map that tested this exact suggestion on Xel Naga Caverns. It had a thread on Teamliquid in the maps section.
2. The total DPS of the group is decreased, because the distance of each unit is larger, and units whom are in the back row are not able to attack at once. But it may not hard to solve.
Actually thats how Real RTS actually work. you dont have too solve that. Is up to the player to decide how to engage the enemy and where.
Hmmm... I am not sure. You know, there are some units who have very long range.
On November 13 2012 17:28 Insoleet wrote: It's still better if its players who split their units.
Just THINK about it: a. Can you keep your units split? b. Does every race have something that forces the opponent to split his units? c. Is it actually good that the DEFENDER has to split and thus micro so the attacker gets yet another advantage after choosing where to fight?
All three are clearly answered by NO and this explains why it is NOT better for a player to SPLIT his units. Micro should be the job of the ATTCKER and not the defender and thus the right way to look at it is: "It would be better if the it is players who CLUMP UP THEIR UNITS instead of the movement mechanics." This is the much better way round, because it enables strong AoE attacks and players having the choice to risk losing a bunch to that. With the current movement mechanics you "have to be MarineKing to survive an attack by Banelings" and not many people are able to do that. The "open formation but clump up if you want to" offers you the chance to have tight formations, but you dont automatically lose if you cant do it.
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Just increasing the unit radius doesnt work unless you can force the units into a tighter formation through micro. Player choice is important and the current system offers no choice, just an "korean kids can do it" emergency fix which isnt good. So there needs to be some "random left-right-straight ahead direction" added to the movement and not just an increase in size.
Looks horrible to me, I would question why can't enemy units squeeze through there and why can't I form a close formation to stop this and why aren't melee units nerfed to the ground because they now own everything due to the inability to decrease your surface area.
As for the poster above, you can keep your units split, but people don't use it often like it is magic! (especially pros don't like it because they prefer to move safely and only memorize one art of moving around that is so save they kill their own command centers with it, they have the speed though to split their units in the midst of battle even if it costs them alot of damage and control) And clumping is easier then unclumping, atleast I find BW movement mechanic easier to master then Sc2 ones. Defenders and Attacker both should have the need to micro, with the defender having a slight edge due to preparation time, which is given in Sc2 so perfect.
And yes I do kite with my Marines splitted against fungal.
On November 13 2012 17:28 Insoleet wrote: It's still better if its players who split their units.
Just THINK about it: a. Can you keep your units split? b. Does every race have something that forces the opponent to split his units? c. Is it actually good that the DEFENDER has to split and thus micro so the attacker gets yet another advantage after choosing where to fight?
All three are clearly answered by NO and this explains why it is NOT better for a player to SPLIT his units. Micro should be the job of the ATTCKER and not the defender and thus the right way to look at it is: "It would be better if the it is players who CLUMP UP THEIR UNITS instead of the movement mechanics." This is the much better way round, because it enables strong AoE attacks and players having the choice to risk losing a bunch to that. With the current movement mechanics you "have to be MarineKing to survive an attack by Banelings" and not many people are able to do that. The "open formation but clump up if you want to" offers you the chance to have tight formations, but you dont automatically lose if you cant do it.
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Just increasing the unit radius doesnt work unless you can force the units into a tighter formation through micro. Player choice is important and the current system offers no choice, just an "korean kids can do it" emergency fix which isnt good. So there needs to be some "random left-right-straight ahead direction" added to the movement and not just an increase in size.
I suggest you THINK once more and try to imagine why someone could answer YES to those questions.
it looks better,much better, and it would improve gameplay because you can't attack with ur 200/200 at the same time, so you could be able to hold with a smaller army, but d.kim and d.browder are happy with the pathing and radius..........
EPT
