EPTOn January 15 2014 00:10 RampancyTW wrote:
... Seriously?
Starbow and SC2 use the same engine, dude.
... Seriously?
Starbow and SC2 use the same engine, dude.
its just the BW lovers SC2 Haters bandwagon
Starbow - Page 33
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
its just the BW lovers SC2 Haters bandwagon | ||
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
On January 15 2014 00:10 RampancyTW wrote: ... Seriously? Starbow and SC2 use the same engine, dude. Inaccurate choice of words, I guess. He didn't mean engine, but certain variables they have chosen to keep fixed. Turn rates, things like that. LaluSh made a good video about it, mainly about air units. Starbow changes some of these variables in an attempt to help potential for micro and discouragement of deathball play. Whether all of them are good changes or good approaches to making the changes may be up to perspective, but that is the intention. @GizmoPT above: Nope, that's very untrue. 1 - read what I've just posted here^ but also 2 - plenty of people who are fans of BW are not keen on Starbow. It's not clear-cut BW vs SC2 fans nonsonse. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26085 Posts
It's not a fucking bandwagon lol, if you look at the post history of the kind of folks who appear excited for the shapr Starbow is taking its months, years of the same issues with SC2 core design. | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
SC2 fans that are threatened by the attention Starbow is getting are silly. Starbow fans who are threatened by people saying they like SC2 more are also silly. We can have both and it will be great for everyone. | ||
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1v6zad/starbow_on_esl_lets_do_it/ | ||
iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
- Why keep Warpgates in the game? I assume they were removed from the early game to remove some of the all-inny nature of Protoss and to also buff gateway-units (by adding goons). But why keep it as an upgrade at all? And why keep it after the Templar Archives, is there a special reasoning for that? - Why do Terran need chronoboost? - Why do Terran needs call-down SCVs? With the nerf to Zerg larva spawning it seems the worst imbalances that would otherwise occur with assymetrical economies are figured out. - Why are Scouts in the game? Otherwise I think it looks pretty cool. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On January 14 2014 23:30 shivver wrote: 3 things: 1. jaedong is just mad he got owned which is why he never even gave it a shot 2. warp prism warp "zone" HAS GOT TO BE INCREASED, it's like a... quarter of an inch at most? 3. mutas might be a little too ridiculous in tvz I do love how people are saying it's "imbalanced" when there's not one gram of numbers or statistics to back it up don't people realize there's a reason it's called the "beta" in the first place? ?? #2 -- just build two warp prisms or take a probe with you and build a pylon. The area is small so that you can only warp in a few units at a time, but you can also warp in a few units, move them out of the way, and warp in more units. Maybe it proves to be very obnoxious, but I take it that you can get used to it? | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EjTnzKz.jpg) | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On January 15 2014 01:03 Heartland wrote: I was curious about a few things that appeared to be a bit.. well, for lack of a better word, random. Perhaps it has been discussed before, I did my best to look through as much of the discussion as possible. - Why keep Warpgates in the game? I assume they were removed from the early game to remove some of the all-inny nature of Protoss and to also buff gateway-units (by adding goons). But why keep it as an upgrade at all? And why keep it after the Templar Archives, is there a special reasoning for that? - Why do Terran need chronoboost? - Why do Terran needs call-down SCVs? With the nerf to Zerg larva spawning it seems the worst imbalances that would otherwise occur with assymetrical economies are figured out. - Why are Scouts in the game? Otherwise I think it looks pretty cool. I think the best way to intuitively understand how we attempt to balance Starbow is in this way (this is the simple version btw): - You have BW as the core game (zerg has less larva than in sc2 there) - You add in new units/abilities, change a few values in order to make a certain types of playstyles a bit better. But overall, try to make it even for all races. - Macromechanics are added into the game. Chrono/Inject Larva and Overcharge function as an alternative to more infastructure (macro hatch, factory/barrack/gateway etc.). If you use them well you will experience that they are a bit more cost effective than adding extra infastructure. But you don't actually need to research Nexus upgrade for instance if you have trouble using the energy. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4028 Posts
On January 15 2014 00:10 RampancyTW wrote: ... Seriously? Starbow and SC2 use the same engine, dude. Yeah ok my bad. Scratch engine and put deathball instead. Doesnt change the fact that HOTS is limited. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
On January 15 2014 01:03 Heartland wrote: I was curious about a few things that appeared to be a bit.. well, for lack of a better word, random. Perhaps it has been discussed before, I did my best to look through as much of the discussion as possible. - Why keep Warpgates in the game? I assume they were removed from the early game to remove some of the all-inny nature of Protoss and to also buff gateway-units (by adding goons). But why keep it as an upgrade at all? And why keep it after the Templar Archives, is there a special reasoning for that? - Why do Terran need chronoboost? - Why do Terran needs call-down SCVs? With the nerf to Zerg larva spawning it seems the worst imbalances that would otherwise occur with assymetrical economies are figured out. - Why are Scouts in the game? Otherwise I think it looks pretty cool. @Warp gate + Show Spoiler + Adds more lategame diversity - Gateways give the raw power. Warpgates offer more map control. @Macro mechanics + Show Spoiler + We wanted each race to have a "back-to-base mechanic". In BW, that is solved naturally by players only being able to select one structure. Because of that, there is a lot more things to spend APM on. In the SC2 engine, without any macro mechanics at all, it just felt a bit.. empty. P and Z already have CB and Inject as macro mechanics that are useful during the entire game, if players have APM for it. Terran did not really have that, and we were not superfond of having Mules in the game. We tried to invent a more interesting ability than Overcharge. But we got limited by the editor. We will look more into macro mechanics in the near future after players have explored the game more. @Scouts + Show Spoiler + Since we use BW as template for Starbow, we made the races similar. Then we tried to find ways to improve units to make them more fun/useful, or to add/replace them with more intersting ones, if needed to improve gameplay. We were going to look closer at Protoss air during last week, since we thought it felt a bit unfinished. We had some ideas we wanted to discuss and explore- But Starbow got known to a larger audience very quickly, so we did not have time to do that. Instead we let it be as it is for now, and can take a closer look at it after some more respons from the players. We are still in beta. We aim to keep the game familiar for players, so we will not start to rearrange things at a large scale. But surely can small improvements be made in many areas. | ||
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Ingsoc
59 Posts
Really nice to see so many masters/grandmasters playing. Bit sad to see people fighting in the thread already tho. If you don't like it and you need to post something you might as well try to present some constructive criticism. It's a beta after all, things can't be expected to work perfectly. The makers of this mod deserve praise imo, for all their hard work. Well done. | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On January 15 2014 01:55 saddaromma wrote: btw, mapmakers might use some donations, since the project is time-consuming and it will get bigger and bigger due to recent hype. i told Kabel to quit his work and go fulltime Starbow for a couple of months and live off donations.  | ||
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purakushi
United States3301 Posts
On January 15 2014 01:47 mau5mat wrote: Why is it so hard for David Kim or Blizzard to respond in the same manner than these guys are doing to questions or critique for the game? I wish you guys success in getting Starbow more recognition, I don't know if it will be as big as the no-brakes hype train wants it to be, but if at the very least it makes the guys at Blizzard really think about their design, it will be worth it. The Likely Blizzard's Q/A Response to Starbow: 1. Have you seen/heard about Starbow? What do you think about it? A. Yes. <insert generic response about being happy that the Arcade is being used, development is being made, and communities are being formed> 2. Would you consider implementing things from Starbow or just consider as a whole what the devs have done? A. <insert generic response about how stuff from Starbow is too different from SC2 and how the general changes are way too drastic for SC2. Also how SC2 is just a different game from BW/Starbow and they like the direction SC2 is going. Possibly throw in that they have tested stuff like this before but did not feel like it was good for SC2> EDIT: also stuff about "visibility of skill" and not feeling that Starbow would not be good for the casual scene. | ||
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