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On January 15 2014 03:55 rift wrote:
I haven't had SC2 installed in years. Is it possible to play BW music these days?
Yes
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On January 15 2014 02:35 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 01:35 Kabel wrote:On January 15 2014 01:03 Heartland wrote:
I was curious about a few things that appeared to be a bit.. well, for lack of a better word, random. Perhaps it has been discussed before, I did my best to look through as much of the discussion as possible.
- Why keep Warpgates in the game? I assume they were removed from the early game to remove some of the all-inny nature of Protoss and to also buff gateway-units (by adding goons). But why keep it as an upgrade at all? And why keep it after the Templar Archives, is there a special reasoning for that?
- Why do Terran need chronoboost?
- Why do Terran needs call-down SCVs? With the nerf to Zerg larva spawning it seems the worst imbalances that would otherwise occur with assymetrical economies are figured out.
- Why are Scouts in the game?
Otherwise I think it looks pretty cool. @Scouts+ Show Spoiler +Since we use BW as template for Starbow, we made the races similar. Then we tried to find ways to improve units to make them more fun/useful, or to add/replace them with more intersting ones, if needed to improve gameplay.
We were going to look closer at Protoss air during last week, since we thought it felt a bit unfinished. We had some ideas we wanted to discuss and explore- But Starbow got known to a larger audience very quickly, so we did not have time to do that. Instead we let it be as it is for now, and can take a closer look at it after some more respons from the players.
We are still in beta. We aim to keep the game familiar for players, so we will not start to rearrange things at a large scale. But surely can small improvements be made in many areas. Well the scouts answer is rather strange. You want to take the good of SC2 and the good of BW ? Just replace scouts by phoenixes. They are obviously one of the real good idea SC2 dev have implemented.
Well, the phoenix is rather the replacement for the corsair in SC2, than the scout. Having both the phoenix and the corsair would be overkill vs light units and leave a spot open for a Protoss AtA that can take on armored units (aka the current scout, or the SC2 Voidray). So the question was rather wether it should be phoenix or corsair and I think the corsair won because of its (for some people more interesting) splash and since move-and-shot micro in Starbow actually can have similar effects as the autoattacking of the phoenix.
But after all, the corsairs disruption web got replaced with the lift of the phoenix, to give the corsair some of the phoenix's interesting powers/utility. (e.g. harass)
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On January 15 2014 03:55 rift wrote:
I haven't had SC2 installed in years. Is it possible to play BW music these days?
It will be in Patch 2.1, which will also make Arcade Games free to play for Starter Edition thus will make Starbow free for all as well.
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On January 15 2014 04:03 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 02:35 Insoleet wrote:On January 15 2014 01:35 Kabel wrote:On January 15 2014 01:03 Heartland wrote:
I was curious about a few things that appeared to be a bit.. well, for lack of a better word, random. Perhaps it has been discussed before, I did my best to look through as much of the discussion as possible.
- Why keep Warpgates in the game? I assume they were removed from the early game to remove some of the all-inny nature of Protoss and to also buff gateway-units (by adding goons). But why keep it as an upgrade at all? And why keep it after the Templar Archives, is there a special reasoning for that?
- Why do Terran need chronoboost?
- Why do Terran needs call-down SCVs? With the nerf to Zerg larva spawning it seems the worst imbalances that would otherwise occur with assymetrical economies are figured out.
- Why are Scouts in the game?
Otherwise I think it looks pretty cool. @Scouts+ Show Spoiler +Since we use BW as template for Starbow, we made the races similar. Then we tried to find ways to improve units to make them more fun/useful, or to add/replace them with more intersting ones, if needed to improve gameplay.
We were going to look closer at Protoss air during last week, since we thought it felt a bit unfinished. We had some ideas we wanted to discuss and explore- But Starbow got known to a larger audience very quickly, so we did not have time to do that. Instead we let it be as it is for now, and can take a closer look at it after some more respons from the players.
We are still in beta. We aim to keep the game familiar for players, so we will not start to rearrange things at a large scale. But surely can small improvements be made in many areas. Well the scouts answer is rather strange. You want to take the good of SC2 and the good of BW ? Just replace scouts by phoenixes. They are obviously one of the real good idea SC2 dev have implemented. Well, the phoenix is rather the replacement for the corsair in SC2, than the scout. Having both the phoenix and the corsair would be overkill vs light units and leave a spot open for a Protoss AtA that can take on armored units (aka the current scout, or the SC2 Voidray). So the question was rather wether it should be phoenix or corsair and I think the corsair won because of its (for some people more interesting) splash and since move-and-shot micro in Starbow actually can have similar effects as the autoattacking of the phoenix. But after all, the corsairs disruption web got replaced with the lift of the phoenix, to give the corsair some of the phoenix's interesting powers/utility. (e.g. harass)
Phoenix would own Scourge too much.
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On January 15 2014 04:15 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 04:03 Big J wrote:On January 15 2014 02:35 Insoleet wrote:On January 15 2014 01:35 Kabel wrote:On January 15 2014 01:03 Heartland wrote:
I was curious about a few things that appeared to be a bit.. well, for lack of a better word, random. Perhaps it has been discussed before, I did my best to look through as much of the discussion as possible.
- Why keep Warpgates in the game? I assume they were removed from the early game to remove some of the all-inny nature of Protoss and to also buff gateway-units (by adding goons). But why keep it as an upgrade at all? And why keep it after the Templar Archives, is there a special reasoning for that?
- Why do Terran need chronoboost?
- Why do Terran needs call-down SCVs? With the nerf to Zerg larva spawning it seems the worst imbalances that would otherwise occur with assymetrical economies are figured out.
- Why are Scouts in the game?
Otherwise I think it looks pretty cool. @Scouts+ Show Spoiler +Since we use BW as template for Starbow, we made the races similar. Then we tried to find ways to improve units to make them more fun/useful, or to add/replace them with more intersting ones, if needed to improve gameplay.
We were going to look closer at Protoss air during last week, since we thought it felt a bit unfinished. We had some ideas we wanted to discuss and explore- But Starbow got known to a larger audience very quickly, so we did not have time to do that. Instead we let it be as it is for now, and can take a closer look at it after some more respons from the players.
We are still in beta. We aim to keep the game familiar for players, so we will not start to rearrange things at a large scale. But surely can small improvements be made in many areas. Well the scouts answer is rather strange. You want to take the good of SC2 and the good of BW ? Just replace scouts by phoenixes. They are obviously one of the real good idea SC2 dev have implemented. Well, the phoenix is rather the replacement for the corsair in SC2, than the scout. Having both the phoenix and the corsair would be overkill vs light units and leave a spot open for a Protoss AtA that can take on armored units (aka the current scout, or the SC2 Voidray). So the question was rather wether it should be phoenix or corsair and I think the corsair won because of its (for some people more interesting) splash and since move-and-shot micro in Starbow actually can have similar effects as the autoattacking of the phoenix. But after all, the corsairs disruption web got replaced with the lift of the phoenix, to give the corsair some of the phoenix's interesting powers/utility. (e.g. harass) Phoenix would own Scourge too much.
Ah yeah, ofc that. 
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Is anybody else having issues with TvZ? I open by boosting 3 reapers while expanding, add a firebat + bunker, then get stim and +1 while spamming scvs nonstop with that awkward calldown ability. I don't even have any money to build units, but I don't feel like it even matters, since speedlings rape the shit out of everything if you move out.
I go up to 44 scvs and get tank + vessel, and just attack until my opponent dies because he's spamming hydras, or lose to mutalingbane. I guess I'm supposed to go mech, because mech is broodwar! or something...
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On January 15 2014 04:15 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 04:03 Big J wrote:On January 15 2014 02:35 Insoleet wrote:On January 15 2014 01:35 Kabel wrote:On January 15 2014 01:03 Heartland wrote:
I was curious about a few things that appeared to be a bit.. well, for lack of a better word, random. Perhaps it has been discussed before, I did my best to look through as much of the discussion as possible.
- Why keep Warpgates in the game? I assume they were removed from the early game to remove some of the all-inny nature of Protoss and to also buff gateway-units (by adding goons). But why keep it as an upgrade at all? And why keep it after the Templar Archives, is there a special reasoning for that?
- Why do Terran need chronoboost?
- Why do Terran needs call-down SCVs? With the nerf to Zerg larva spawning it seems the worst imbalances that would otherwise occur with assymetrical economies are figured out.
- Why are Scouts in the game?
Otherwise I think it looks pretty cool. @Scouts+ Show Spoiler +Since we use BW as template for Starbow, we made the races similar. Then we tried to find ways to improve units to make them more fun/useful, or to add/replace them with more intersting ones, if needed to improve gameplay.
We were going to look closer at Protoss air during last week, since we thought it felt a bit unfinished. We had some ideas we wanted to discuss and explore- But Starbow got known to a larger audience very quickly, so we did not have time to do that. Instead we let it be as it is for now, and can take a closer look at it after some more respons from the players.
We are still in beta. We aim to keep the game familiar for players, so we will not start to rearrange things at a large scale. But surely can small improvements be made in many areas. Well the scouts answer is rather strange. You want to take the good of SC2 and the good of BW ? Just replace scouts by phoenixes. They are obviously one of the real good idea SC2 dev have implemented. Well, the phoenix is rather the replacement for the corsair in SC2, than the scout. Having both the phoenix and the corsair would be overkill vs light units and leave a spot open for a Protoss AtA that can take on armored units (aka the current scout, or the SC2 Voidray). So the question was rather wether it should be phoenix or corsair and I think the corsair won because of its (for some people more interesting) splash and since move-and-shot micro in Starbow actually can have similar effects as the autoattacking of the phoenix. But after all, the corsairs disruption web got replaced with the lift of the phoenix, to give the corsair some of the phoenix's interesting powers/utility. (e.g. harass) Phoenix would own Scourge too much.
If they move at the same speed, it's like battle star galactica and you need to screen your important air units with sweet fighters.
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On January 15 2014 04:18 PineapplePizza wrote:
Is anybody else having issues with TvZ? I open by boosting 3 reapers while expanding, add a firebat + bunker, then get stim and +1 while spamming scvs nonstop with that awkward calldown ability. I don't even have any money to build units, but I don't feel like it even matters, since speedlings rape the shit out of everything if you move out.
I go up to 44 scvs and get tank + vessel, and just attack until my opponent dies because he's spamming hydras, or lose to mutalingbane. I guess I'm supposed to go mech, because mech is broodwar! or something...
Mass firebat medic tank with science vessels work really well.
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On January 15 2014 04:18 PineapplePizza wrote:
Is anybody else having issues with TvZ? I open by boosting 3 reapers while expanding, add a firebat + bunker, then get stim and +1 while spamming scvs nonstop with that awkward calldown ability. I don't even have any money to build units, but I don't feel like it even matters, since speedlings rape the !@#$%^&* out of everything if you move out.
I go up to 44 scvs and get tank + vessel, and just attack until my opponent dies because he's spamming hydras, or lose to mutalingbane. I guess I'm supposed to go mech, because mech is broodwar! or something...
Bio openings are standard in BW vs zerg.
Maybe reconsider your opening. Why do you got for 3 reapers for instance instead of just 1 or2?
What is your expo timing btw (before/after OC?) OC timings can perhaps be adjusted so they allin better w/ with your overall gameplan.
Are you overcharging your barracks in period before you make a move-out?
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Im so noob lol Trying for 1 rax expo, into tanks right away, but its too late, the dragoons rape me haha. Im supposed to open rax/gas/fact into expo i think?
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On January 15 2014 04:29 rebuffering wrote:
Im so noob lol Trying for 1 rax expo, into tanks right away, but its too late, the dragoons rape me haha. Im supposed to open rax/gas/fact into expo i think?
No. I did 1 rax expand vs Cranks Dragoons pressure and lost no units at all. Below is the build; :
- 1 rax expo (before 2nd supply depot)
- Then geyser (before anything else)
- Then 1 Marine
- Cut scv's for a while --> Research OC --> Your supply blocked while researching it which is the optimal usage.
- Supply depot (this guy builds bunkers afterwards)
- 2nd Marine
- Factory
- Techlab on barracks
- Orbital command on your natural expansion.
--> When factory is done, give it the Barracks techlab.
--> Get one Siege Tank and Siege tech asap --> Overcharge out Siege Tanks..
......... Be ready to repair your bunker. As a general rule, 1 scv per Dragoon.
When Siege Tech is out, your safe.
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On January 15 2014 04:03 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 02:35 Insoleet wrote:On January 15 2014 01:35 Kabel wrote:On January 15 2014 01:03 Heartland wrote:
I was curious about a few things that appeared to be a bit.. well, for lack of a better word, random. Perhaps it has been discussed before, I did my best to look through as much of the discussion as possible.
- Why keep Warpgates in the game? I assume they were removed from the early game to remove some of the all-inny nature of Protoss and to also buff gateway-units (by adding goons). But why keep it as an upgrade at all? And why keep it after the Templar Archives, is there a special reasoning for that?
- Why do Terran need chronoboost?
- Why do Terran needs call-down SCVs? With the nerf to Zerg larva spawning it seems the worst imbalances that would otherwise occur with assymetrical economies are figured out.
- Why are Scouts in the game?
Otherwise I think it looks pretty cool. @Scouts+ Show Spoiler +Since we use BW as template for Starbow, we made the races similar. Then we tried to find ways to improve units to make them more fun/useful, or to add/replace them with more intersting ones, if needed to improve gameplay.
We were going to look closer at Protoss air during last week, since we thought it felt a bit unfinished. We had some ideas we wanted to discuss and explore- But Starbow got known to a larger audience very quickly, so we did not have time to do that. Instead we let it be as it is for now, and can take a closer look at it after some more respons from the players.
We are still in beta. We aim to keep the game familiar for players, so we will not start to rearrange things at a large scale. But surely can small improvements be made in many areas. Well the scouts answer is rather strange. You want to take the good of SC2 and the good of BW ? Just replace scouts by phoenixes. They are obviously one of the real good idea SC2 dev have implemented. [ ... ] But after all, the corsairs disruption web got replaced with the lift of the phoenix, to give the corsair some of the phoenix's interesting powers/utility. (e.g. harass)
So you've said that multiple times now, but as far as I can see the Corsair does not have a lift ability, neither can I research it at Fleet Beacon / Cyber Core. How do I get it?
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United States2174 Posts
1rax expo should work. Are you building a bunker at your natural and using scvs to repair?
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@Corsair lift
+ Show Spoiler +The lift ability got removed when the hype-train started, a few days ago. It was in a buggy and strange reworked version. So it got removed. The Corsair is currently "naked" now, but if needed, it might get an ability in the future. Check all units at the wiki: http://starbow.wikia.com/wiki/Starbow_Wiki
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On January 15 2014 04:35 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 04:03 Big J wrote:On January 15 2014 02:35 Insoleet wrote:On January 15 2014 01:35 Kabel wrote:On January 15 2014 01:03 Heartland wrote:
I was curious about a few things that appeared to be a bit.. well, for lack of a better word, random. Perhaps it has been discussed before, I did my best to look through as much of the discussion as possible.
- Why keep Warpgates in the game? I assume they were removed from the early game to remove some of the all-inny nature of Protoss and to also buff gateway-units (by adding goons). But why keep it as an upgrade at all? And why keep it after the Templar Archives, is there a special reasoning for that?
- Why do Terran need chronoboost?
- Why do Terran needs call-down SCVs? With the nerf to Zerg larva spawning it seems the worst imbalances that would otherwise occur with assymetrical economies are figured out.
- Why are Scouts in the game?
Otherwise I think it looks pretty cool. @Scouts+ Show Spoiler +Since we use BW as template for Starbow, we made the races similar. Then we tried to find ways to improve units to make them more fun/useful, or to add/replace them with more intersting ones, if needed to improve gameplay.
We were going to look closer at Protoss air during last week, since we thought it felt a bit unfinished. We had some ideas we wanted to discuss and explore- But Starbow got known to a larger audience very quickly, so we did not have time to do that. Instead we let it be as it is for now, and can take a closer look at it after some more respons from the players.
We are still in beta. We aim to keep the game familiar for players, so we will not start to rearrange things at a large scale. But surely can small improvements be made in many areas. Well the scouts answer is rather strange. You want to take the good of SC2 and the good of BW ? Just replace scouts by phoenixes. They are obviously one of the real good idea SC2 dev have implemented. [ ... ] But after all, the corsairs disruption web got replaced with the lift of the phoenix, to give the corsair some of the phoenix's interesting powers/utility. (e.g. harass) So you've said that multiple times now, but as far as I can see the Corsair does not have a lift ability, neither can I research it at Fleet Beacon / Cyber Core. How do I get it?
Oh sorry. What Kabel said, it has been removed as of lately 
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On January 15 2014 04:35 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 04:29 rebuffering wrote:
Im so noob lol Trying for 1 rax expo, into tanks right away, but its too late, the dragoons rape me haha. Im supposed to open rax/gas/fact into expo i think? No. I did 1 rax expand vs Cranks Dragoons pressure and lost no units at all. Below is the build; : - 1 rax expo (before 2nd supply depot) - Then geyser (before anything else) - Then 1 Marine - Cut scv's for a while --> Research OC --> Your supply blocked while researching it which is the optimal usage. - Supply depot (this guy builds bunkers afterwards) - 2nd Marine - Factory - Techlab on barracks - Orbital command on your natural expansion. --> When factory is done, give it the Barracks techlab. --> Get one Siege Tank and Siege tech asap --> Overcharge out Siege Tanks.. ......... Be ready to repair your bunker. As a general rule, 1 scv per Dragoon. When Siege Tech is out, your safe.
Wow thanks! I realize that its mainly me being bad that made me lose haha. Just so scary when goons show up! I also totally forgot to "chrono" my tanks! Derps. Thanks again.
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On January 15 2014 01:35 Kabel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 01:03 Heartland wrote:
I was curious about a few things that appeared to be a bit.. well, for lack of a better word, random. Perhaps it has been discussed before, I did my best to look through as much of the discussion as possible.
- Why keep Warpgates in the game? I assume they were removed from the early game to remove some of the all-inny nature of Protoss and to also buff gateway-units (by adding goons). But why keep it as an upgrade at all? And why keep it after the Templar Archives, is there a special reasoning for that?
- Why do Terran need chronoboost?
- Why do Terran needs call-down SCVs? With the nerf to Zerg larva spawning it seems the worst imbalances that would otherwise occur with assymetrical economies are figured out.
- Why are Scouts in the game?
Otherwise I think it looks pretty cool.
@Warp gate+ Show Spoiler +
Adds more lategame diversity - Gateways give the raw power. Warpgates offer more map control.
We wanted each race to have a "back-to-base mechanic". In BW, that is solved naturally by players only being able to select one structure. Because of that, there is a lot more things to spend APM on. In the SC2 engine, without any macro mechanics at all, it just felt a bit.. empty.
P and Z already have CB and Inject as macro mechanics that are useful during the entire game, if players have APM for it. Terran did not really have that, and we were not superfond of having Mules in the game.
We tried to invent a more interesting ability than Overcharge. But we got limited by the editor.
We will look more into macro mechanics in the near future after players have explored the game more.
Since we use BW as template for Starbow, we made the races similar. Then we tried to find ways to improve units to make them more fun/useful, or to add/replace them with more intersting ones, if needed to improve gameplay.
We were going to look closer at Protoss air during last week, since we thought it felt a bit unfinished. We had some ideas we wanted to discuss and explore- But Starbow got known to a larger audience very quickly, so we did not have time to do that. Instead we let it be as it is for now, and can take a closer look at it after some more respons from the players.
We are still in beta. We aim to keep the game familiar for players, so we will not start to rearrange things at a large scale. But surely can small improvements be made in many areas.
Thank you for your reply. I am not sure I am convinced all together but you made a good argument. However, about the warpgates I think there is a good point made in the old BW vs SC2 discussion that warp gates aren't a great idea. I was surprised to see them in the game.
Anyway, another matter I forgot to bring up. Why did you choose to split the medic and the dropship into two units (á la BW)? I think the medivac was a good solution to the rather weak dropship in BW and offered a more dynamic playstyle.
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Stream is great! lots of useful and interesting info.
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I love how the visibility of dark swarm is fixed already. Scourge still looks too much like baneling though :/
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EPT
