EPTNice try David Kim, nice try.
David Kim's Current Balance Thoughts - Page 2
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Aquila-
516 Posts
Nice try David Kim, nice try. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 10 2014 12:03 Aquila- wrote: Statistics cover range: Jan. 3-9th, 2013. Nice try David Kim, nice try. Ok I didn't see that. It had to be a typo. Those win rates would be from WOL and tvz wouldn't be that close to 50% | ||
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Zanzabarr
Canada217 Posts
1) A-move mobile army 2) Take bad engagement and lose said engagement 3) Cry imbalance and demand buffs/nerfs | ||
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Ctone23
United States1841 Posts
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On January 10 2014 11:39 iHirO wrote: I'd be interested to know how the player skill was factored out. Yes, I would also like this information. How do you actually account for this? Every time I see Blizzard posting statistics talking about how they've factored out XYZ, I wonder if the statistics actually mean anything at all anymore. I, of course, am not a statistics major, but I'd like an explanation for how this is achieved without rigging the data in some way. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 10 2014 12:09 Jazzman88 wrote: Yes, I would also like this information. How do you actually account for this? Every time I see Blizzard posting statistics talking about how they've factored out XYZ, I wonder if the statistics actually mean anything at all anymore. I, of course, am not a statistics major, but I'd like an explanation for how this is achieved without rigging the data in some way. They likely use internal MMR and look for players that have similar win rates in that specific match up, like both players have around a 50% success rate in their average TvZ against opponents of similar MMR. With all the games being played, they likely have a wealth of data to work with. | ||
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wiseman2024
United States4 Posts
On January 10 2014 12:06 Zanzabarr wrote: Protoss has been savagely brutalized this week in proleague..... they went 1-15 in non mirrors in a best of 1 format.... the supposedly strongest format for protoss. To all the non-pro players out there.... no... your perceived strength of protoss isn't holding you back... you are. I'm pretty sure 80%+ of the player base doesn't use their army mobility advantage properly, if at all, and go through this three step magical process. 1) A-move mobile army 2) Take bad engagement and lose said engagement 3) Cry imbalance and demand buffs/nerfs 1 week of Proleague automatically solves all the issues both T and Z have had with Protoss? Wut? Also, top Korean pros such as Polt and Bomber have been complaining as well. I'm sure they don't follow that 3-step path to chobo that you posted. | ||
kimaphan
United States43 Posts
On January 10 2014 11:56 operwolf wrote: Are those win percentages current? It says 2013 in the picture, typo maybe? It was a typo. The stats are from this current season's data. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
A bit depressing. TvP is a mess of a match-up loaded with unpredictable all-ins and an unplayable lategame. | ||
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beesinyoface
2450 Posts
Oh well. | ||
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Topin
Peru10128 Posts
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itsjustatank
Hong Kong9179 Posts
Please keep in mind these are not straight-up win percentages. They’re win percentages with player skill factored out. When we grab win/loss data for balance purposes, we categorize each game with 2 different variables per side: one being player skill and other being race strength. So by factoring the player skill out, we are able to more accurately check how each race is doing at each skill level. Without an explanation as to what this actually means, statistically speaking, this sounds like like linguistic flourish justifying cherrypicking one's data to one's advantage, a component of lying with statistics. Elucidation would be greatly appreciated, because I have to assume this isn't the case. | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
Also, if you look at the Terrans, they have learned to be much more aggressive (Maru/Keen) or defensive (TY). As for the Zerg, the only tactics they have to deal with are all-ins (Soulkey) or deathballs (fucking Roro). Regardless of the results, I still think that Protoss needs a minor change because of how stale the matches have become especially PvT. | ||
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ChoDing
United States740 Posts
FML User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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seak99
Canada69 Posts
On January 10 2014 12:18 itsjustatank wrote: Without an explanation as to what this actually means, statistically speaking, this sounds like like linguistic flourish justifying cherrypicking one's data to one's advantage, a component of lying with statistics. Elucidation would be greatly appreciated, because I have to assume this isn't the case. Exactly, like what exactly does he mean when they factor the "race strength" | ||
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Greendotz
United Kingdom2053 Posts
On January 10 2014 11:55 CutTheEnemy wrote: On EU, 24% of masters players are terran now compared with 35% and 38% for zerg and protoss. How can he say its balanced considering this? His appeal to win percentages within leagues is highly misleading. He's also been speaking for years as though he's ignorant of our main complaint- its isn't balance per se, its how hard and stressful it is to play terran and win. We know terrans can win once they go pro, but most of us aren't capable of sustaining the serious damage to our personal relationships, grades, hands and paychecks it takes in order to play the race competitively. I don't really get this, so are you saying that you're fine with the balance but you think it's unfair that Terran is harder to play than Protoss or Zerg? If so that's not really a topic for a balance discussion thread. | ||
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itsjustatank
Hong Kong9179 Posts
On January 10 2014 12:20 seak99 wrote: Exactly, like what exactly does he mean when they factor the "race strength" Yep, that's my qualm exactly. Metrics can be made for estimating player skill, but the other factor is quite dubious. | ||
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
On January 10 2014 12:16 Bagi wrote: So the mantra seems to be to stare at the winrates and as long as they fit a certain criteria, the games fine? A bit depressing. TvP is a mess of a match-up loaded with unpredictable all-ins and an unplayable lategame. Couldn't have said it better myself. I absolutely hate this decision to balance match ups based on win percents, there is a clear early game problem in TvP right now that has ruined the match up, and apparently that's just fine and dandy as long as it's 50% win rates! | ||
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wiseman2024
United States4 Posts
On January 10 2014 12:18 itsjustatank wrote: Without an explanation as to what this actually means, statistically speaking, this sounds like like linguistic flourish justifying cherrypicking one's data to one's advantage, a component of lying with statistics. Elucidation would be greatly appreciated, because I have to assume this isn't the case. It's not even linguistic flourish. It's incomprehensible and muddled. I agree that elucidation would be fantastic. | ||
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Redfish
United States142 Posts
On January 10 2014 11:55 CutTheEnemy wrote: On EU, 24% of masters players are terran now compared with 35% and 38% for zerg and protoss. How can he say its balanced considering this? His appeal to win percentages within leagues is highly misleading. He's also been speaking for years as though he's ignorant of our main complaint- its isn't balance per se, its how hard and stressful it is to play terran and win. We know terrans can win once they go pro, but most of us aren't capable of sustaining the serious damage to our personal relationships, grades, hands and paychecks it takes in order to play the race competitively. In what world does having the same number of people play each race equal each race being balanced? Let's say that there are 20 terran, 90 zerg and 90 toss in GM. If the Terran in GM won 50% of both TvP and TvZ, would that really be imbalanced? Would you still cry imba if those 20 terran out of 200 won 90% in non-mirrors? | ||
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