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On January 03 2014 18:13 WarpTV wrote:
Protoss
Warp Prism gets a super late game upgrade at Fleet beacon with recall ability (recall units to Warp Prism)
Are you fucking crazy? Then all they would have to do would be to sneak one super fast wp around the edge of the map and poof, all Terran's production is gone. Then before Terran's army gets back to the base, use another wp on the other side of the map to get the army back out..gm would go from 50% Toss to 90% overnight
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Offcourse Terrans won't be able to do any damage to an equal skilled protoss with their good ol 2\3\4medivacks because the basic of any PvT build is to defend that, but protosses will change their buids with a greater accent on gates.. so wellcome back to X gate followups instead of oracle\tech way of play. Is this bad? i don't know, i really never loved oracles, so maybe yes for my taste, overall i expect a more allinish metagame like back in wol, or maybe just more aggressive.
So to change we need to use our past builds, our past metagame, instead of new ideas and a real shake for the game... this is what i dislike of this patch, this and the near to nothing content. And what is that mech question? A joke?
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I agree nerfing photon overcharge is a good idea but I think nerfing the duration of the Photon overcharge isn't the way to go. I would rather see a 50 energy cost on the Nexus as well as the 100 energy cost on the Mothership Core rather than changing the duration.
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I wish they looked into muta's regen and blink research time before tweaking overcharge/mech
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At least they admit there is a problem with Protoss nowadays. I do believe PvZ is fine, but PvT early game feels so unfair especially due to the oracle. I don't think they came up with the right solutions at all though...
- Photon overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 40
We believe the the Mothership Core is very well-rounded unit. We like the early aggressive options the Mothership Core provides, such as being able to recall back at the right moments, but we wonder whether the defensive nature of the Mothership Core can be toned down a bit. We’d like to see more options for Terran and Zerg to attack, skirmish, or harass a Protoss player who plays defensively.
Translation : we're too stubborn to revert oracle change.
My opinion : will only affect PvP. 40 sec is still more than enough for a reasonable P to buy time against hellion harass or a stim timing.
What I'd do : an overcharged Nexus can't produce anything during the time the photon cannon is active. So that an early game overcharge hurts the economy and must not be taken lightly.
[*] Roach burrow move speed to 2.25Of the various changes we made in the last balance patch, this one seems to be the one that didn’t do much. We’ve rarely see any roach burrow-move games, and we’d like to bump this up a bit more with the hope that we’d see it. Considering the few games we did see this strategy being used, they were really fun and different compared to other strategies that Zerg use. Perhaps we can move in small steps in order to see some more burrow move speed usage in various matchups.
Translation : if something isn't common, then it isn't fast enough.
My opinion : the same I had on oracle or DT buff. It's plain stupid.
What I'd do : nothing and let the meta stabilize without hoping every unit and every upgrade will be viable in every mu. It wasn't the case in BW and shouldn't be either here. And please stop with the fun, think about the enjoyment of playing. You'll never be as popular as LoL, focus on making a good game, not an epic show.
[*] The next step for Terran mech
We believe we can push mech usage more as well. Some options we’re looking at here are: higher armored damage for siege tanks, easier access to EMP when going mech (such as building the energy upgrade into the unit), buffing mech air, and so on. However, this is the area in which we’re the least certain. Detailed feedback based on good reasoning is greatly appreciated.
Translation : we feel that there aren't enough turtlefests in SC2.
My opinion : nothing to do with balance, but I really wouldn't like SC2 mech to be viable. SC2 mech is by essence purely defensive and deathball oriented because it lacks a good all-around unit. High armored damage for siege tanks won't make them better against swarm hosts, mutalisks, tempests or vipers. Plus mech is already borderline too strong in TvT.
What I'd do : nothing until LotV.
Please keep in mind none of this is even close to final. We truly appreciate your feedback, and we’ll continue to carefully consider what you’ve got to say before we publish the next balance test map.
Translation : we didn't take account of anything you said about the oracle buff or Alterzim Stronghold, but we truly appreciate your feedback...
I'd really like a balance map where Terran can build turrets with barracks as only requirement. This would hugely help T early game and be a good overall buff to the race which I feel is only weak in early game TvP. If they had a good and safe all-around opening in this mu they'd be more than fine.
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Italy12247 Posts
I really dislike the overcharge change. Duration is extremenly important in pvp, more so than pvt. Pvz isnt even an issue since zerg hasnt had aggressive options beore lair tech for several years, and after that armies get so big overcharge isnt very meaningful. If they want to address pvt specifically they should change range, not duration.
Translation : if something isn't common, then it isn't fast enough.
LOL that was pretty good xD
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or, you know, use EMP? tanks and hellbats roflstomp immortals that have lost their shields. BFHB roflstomp pretty much anything and don't give a shit about storm, collosus or Photon Overcharge.
Hell yeah, and replace the tanks with marauders btw, far more efficient and mobile. And replace hellbats by marines, they can stim... well, let's play bio.
You are complaining that it would make the Terran mechball to strong to be front attacked brainlessly... Just like the current deathball. Why not ? It would just offer the Terran to reverse roles wih the Protoss.
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Lower the health on the Oracle (keep the speed) and lower the vision and speed of the Mothership core. The purpose is to make Mothership core less useful on the offence and as a spotter for blink stalkers. Oracle is extremely strong against its natural enemy, the marine, but it should stay agile so that it benefits from micro. All in all, it should make it a bit easier for the terran to keep up with tech while having enough units to defend harass.
PS: Photon overcharge is just about the best thing that happened to SC2, keep it the way it is, just make the Mothership core more susceptible to sniping.
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On January 03 2014 08:53 NerdFace wrote:
All I want as a terran is a blink all in nerf :'(
Blizzard pls
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well. i played defensive toss till this change, guess i have to go for oracle allins, and proxy 2 gates :D Blizz just doesn't want toss players to play macro games ....
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On January 03 2014 19:48 Zax19 wrote:
Lower the health on the Oracle (keep the speed) and lower the vision and speed of the Mothership core. The purpose is to make Mothership core less useful on the offence and as a spotter for blink stalkers. Oracle is extremely strong against its natural enemy, the marine, but it should stay agile so that it benefits from micro. All in all, it should make it a bit easier for the terran to keep up with tech while having enough units to defend harass.
PS: Photon overcharge is just about the best thing that happened to SC2, keep it the way it is, just make the Mothership core more susceptible to sniping.
I love hearing that. Photon overcharge was indeed the best thing HotS came with, making an unplayable match up a really enjoyable one.
I once read the following idea : an overcharged Nexus can't produce while it's active. I loved it. This plus turrets buildable from barracks would really help T early game since an early game pressure (let's say, some hellions which bait an overcharge) would hinder probe production on one Nexus for a full minute, and T wouldn't be as fragile against DTs and oracles as they're now, and could find a good all-around and safe build that can defend against blink all-ins.
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On January 03 2014 19:13 [PkF] Wire wrote:At least they admit there is a problem with Protoss nowadays. I do believe PvZ is fine, but PvT early game feels so unfair especially due to the oracle. I don't think they came up with the right solutions at all though... Show nested quote +- Photon overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 40
We believe the the Mothership Core is very well-rounded unit. We like the early aggressive options the Mothership Core provides, such as being able to recall back at the right moments, but we wonder whether the defensive nature of the Mothership Core can be toned down a bit. We’d like to see more options for Terran and Zerg to attack, skirmish, or harass a Protoss player who plays defensively.
Translation : we're too stubborn to revert oracle change. My opinion : will only affect PvP. 40 sec is still more than enough for a reasonable P to buy time against hellion harass or a stim timing. What I'd do : an overcharged Nexus can't produce anything during the time the photon cannon is active. So that an early game overcharge hurts the economy and must not be taken lightly. Show nested quote +
[*] The next step for Terran mech
We believe we can push mech usage more as well. Some options we’re looking at here are: higher armored damage for siege tanks, easier access to EMP when going mech (such as building the energy upgrade into the unit), buffing mech air, and so on. However, this is the area in which we’re the least certain. Detailed feedback based on good reasoning is greatly appreciated.
Translation : we feel that there aren't enough turtlefests in SC2. My opinion : nothing to do with balance, but I really wouldn't like SC2 mech to be viable. SC2 mech is by essence purely defensive and deathball oriented because it lacks a good all-around unit. High armored damage for siege tanks won't make them better against swarm hosts, mutalisks, tempests or vipers. Plus mech is already borderline too strong in TvT. What I'd do : nothing until LotV.
I couldn't agree more, especially on the Mech part. The only thing they will achieve by buffing mech is that bio becomes completely useless in TvT. In my humble opinion, in this state of the game, mech can't become a viable option in the other matchups - especially in TvP - without a RADICAL change which they will surely not make prior to LotV.
Plus, as you said, mech gives the player the incentive to play a boring, defensive, turtle-based style - do we want to see Terrans play like Protosses? Bio is what makes Terran interesting and special in SC2, its mobility and incentive to multi-tasking and to fast, offensive multi-pronged plays. Seriously, who wants to see another Death-Ball-dependant, turtling race like Protoss? Blizzard is all about "we want this game to be fun to watch" - would this seriously be fun to watch Blizzard?
I am not saying that Mech should be completely disregarded. It would be nice for Terrans to have two viable playstyles, no doubt about that. But in this state of the game, as said above, the only thing they will achieve by buffing mech is that they will make bio completely useless in TvT. So they take the option of playing bio out of that matchup but they won't add the option of playing mech to the other matchups - especially TvP.
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i dont understand why everyone is hating on mech, its not that turtley i just played a tvz and it didnt go past 17 mins. i did dmg with hellion banshee and saw an opening to do a timing and it worked. yes there those games where you can't break the mech player but ive play 30-40 min tvp going bio same vs zerg,shit happens i just think players need to figure mech out more to find better timings. flash was doing 2-2 timing in iem and they worked... sometimes. also terrans need to use medivacs more i've been working on doing doom drops with mech in every MU and working very well stole it from watching innovations stream you just need to do it after mutas are gone or on other side of map(helps if you clear OL with vikings before) also really good vs SH, or if toss or terran army in middle of the map.its like 4-5 medivacs 4 tanks and a bunch of hellions with transformation upgrade for hellbats.
and why not just give shield dmg for tanks and no need to buff skyterran we dont want to lose every zerg,or have them allin everygame
edit: before someone say that shit only works in bronze league or something along those lines im a diamond playing masters.also why i brought up innovation if it can work for him why cant it work for all of us.also saw htomario doing some thor hellbat drops today too.
last edit i swear but its also really cute when you bring a raven and drop auto turrets to wall off top of ramps while doing this drop but very risky will probably lose raven if your not careful
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
On January 03 2014 20:05 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I once read the following idea : an overcharged Nexus can't produce while it's active. I loved it. This plus turrets buildable from barracks would really help T early game since an early game pressure (let's say, some hellions which bait an overcharge) would hinder probe production on one Nexus for a full minute, and T wouldn't be as fragile against DTs and oracles as they're now, and could find a good all-around and safe build that can defend against blink all-ins.
Wow, I really like that idea. Imposing an economic cost for baiting out an overcharge would be really interesting.
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Maybe they could finally grant Durable Materials upgrade automatically to Raven with these changes. The upgrade has been bugging me since HotS, it is just weird to see it still in game since it no longer affects Seeker Missile.
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On January 03 2014 19:54 NLWiNtER wrote:
well. i played defensive toss till this change, guess i have to go for oracle allins, and proxy 2 gates :D Blizz just doesn't want toss players to play macro games ....
You made nothing but 2-3 units for the first 9 minutes and love being able to double forge and get all the tech. Now PO might be 40 sec instead of 60 and you are forced to all in every game? what a load of bs
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On January 03 2014 07:49 Taronar wrote:
And here come the marine scv allins all over again....
And that's totally fine because terrans lack all ins which can't be defended with the mothership core :3
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On January 03 2014 16:24 GreenMash wrote:
I don't understand the mech buff. What are they doing exactly? Buffing EMP?
Or Tanks, or air. So they don't understand it either don't worry.
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EPT
