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lowering PO time will hurt PvP because 40 sec is considered quite short time there when one trying to hold pressure, (i.e time is crucial when someone have less army but mining more vs someone with more army that mining less).
But on the opposite side (PvT) - 40 sec is still quite a lot of time, when we're looking on drop harass it really doesn't matter - a terran wont pick up because of PO and then redrop after 40 sec.... it doesnt make sense, since all prottos actually need is a decent amount of zealot stalkers to hold 1-2 meds drop. we need to ask ourself - does prottos need PO in all match-ups more for multitask defense (PvT) or for a huge tactical defenses (PvP).
Bottom line - lowering PO time will hurt PvP and wont change a thing in PvT... a proper solution will be lowering its DPS and adding bonus damage to shields, so in PvP it'll stay the same.
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On January 03 2014 17:30 sagefreke wrote:
Please for the love of god buff Nydus Worms.
Couple suggestions:
1. Remove the alert.
2. Reduce the cost to build structure.
3. Reduce the cost to build Nydus (Worm).
4. Reduce build time to build Nydus (Worm).
5. Make it so multiple worms can be built at a time from one Nydus.
6. Increase the rate that units pop out of the Worm.
Nydus has gotten zero love since release.
just make it undetectable on mini map
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As a terran player i think the game balance is decent.
I like the current TvZ match up alot.
The TvP matchup for me as terran has one problem that as terran you always end up doing the same thing. reaper expand to be able to scout if toss doing an all in and respond correcly to it or punish greedy build with early 3 basis. If toss gate expands i feel you slightly behind. All in all being terran vs toss is very reactional.
I think it would be great for the match up to have more build variations as a terran
What to do to fix this? making mech more viable does not tend to give early game options vs protoss but atleast a different way to play. ( I would prefer some to have 2 or 3 cheese options that could potentially work vs Toss that hard counter Toss cheeses them selves and vica versa) (as toss has like 5-6 1 base options and some strong 2 base timings)
The suggestion i like the most
1. Give tanks a added damage to shields. (does not effect TvZ and TvT)
2. Add + 1 range to ghost for snipe (personally i have most trouble using ghost efficiently when protoss has HT and COL Ghost just die before they get the snip/ EMP off. Putting the ghost in middle of you bio ball in my experience is bad idea as you melt from the Storm COL combo. Spotting observers that are in middle of toss deathball is pain in the asse
3. Make mech AA better (thor faster or more damage or Turrets AOE)
4. Make unsiege faster (not siege) and make transition from Hellbat to Hellion faster
5. Reduce cost of transformation Hellion/ Hellbat
6. Like the nydus worm buff suggestions
7. making splitting up mech army a little more friendly and stil cost inefficient but not walkover like now. (adds more offensive play possible as terran turtling to 200 suply and move out is boring to)
8. make some spells of the MSC researcheble and upgradeble
The suggestion i do not like
1. Giving EMP to raven i think will not work as raven as very late game unit and cost 300 gas besides if you get ravens you want to use energy on seeker missles. Do not think it wil work.
2. Making mech stronger in TvT and TvZ (ground battles)
3. Making burrow speed even faster (lets see over a longer period of time what effect is)
4. Make vikings stronger vs air they pretty good as it is. if properly combined with other units.
5. Making all units faster and faster I like the strategy element in the game to be important and not the reaction/micro all powerfull.
The PO nerf is a good idea but perhaps you can remove the PO doing damage to air to make banshee and mutas better vs toss.
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and just when i was about to give up on sc2 for good, david kim brings me back and makes me really wanna play again :D thank you david kim!!!! :D :D :D
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I think this patch looks like a pretty nice step forward.
But i dont think nerfing the photon overcharge is enought.
No i dont would like to see it reduce to 10 secondes, it's just i think the problem is not the balance of the photon overcharge, but its design :
→ Protoss needed a way to defend early pushes, and we give them this spell? This spell just stop the game, stop the entertainment, nobody can micro, the protoss launch the spell and work hard to have enought to hold the attack 60s later ; and the opponent (any race, Z, T, P) can just wait, walking around, trying to keep himself ready and calm. Noone have to micro anything.
I think the best way to do is to erase the photon-overcharge and replace it by another defensive spell more interesting, where every player will PLAY and FIGHT, not a spell where every player cannot play.
For exemples :
• Psionic backup : call some temporary units close to the targeted nexus → units to create and to balance of course but in this case, both player can still fight and micro.
• Ladding transformation : the mothership-core himself land close to the targeted nexus and become a temporary big gosu unit ready to defend. → again, in this case both player can PLAY and micro something.
• Any Creative spell : a much more interesting spell create by the awesome blizzard team i love.
♥
Thank you for listening.
All my apologies for the language mistakes :$
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On January 03 2014 22:21 StatixEx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 17:30 sagefreke wrote:
Please for the love of god buff Nydus Worms.
Couple suggestions:
1. Remove the alert.
2. Reduce the cost to build structure.
3. Reduce the cost to build Nydus (Worm).
4. Reduce build time to build Nydus (Worm).
5. Make it so multiple worms can be built at a time from one Nydus.
6. Increase the rate that units pop out of the Worm.
Nydus has gotten zero love since release. just make it undetectable on mini map
You realize how op it would be ? Roach nydus allin everygame, no way to spot it, instant lose every game.
Nydus of 2 bases is already really strong if you don't react fast enough to kill the said nydus, imagine if it is undetectable with on minimap.
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On January 03 2014 09:31 vhapter wrote:
If you don't have anything useful to do Blizzard, please leave the game ALONE. They must have thought the oracle buff wasn't enough to worsen the rock-paper-scissors factor in PvP, so they've decided to come up with yet another needless change that makes it even more unstable.
Protoss players still need to rely on mind reading skills to know if a zerg player has built a spire for mutas, corruptors, both, or just to laugh at the protoss for blindly making phoenix so as not to straight up die to a muta flock. Even the worst ladder zergs are able to abuse that. In the meantime, all blizzard can think of is a roach buff that mostly affects an already zerg-favored matchup.
Actually it's currently the most balanced matchup. Perhaps there are some flaws in your play style ? You should upload replays and ask others for their opinion on what you are doing wrong
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Mech still lacks the mini/medium sized Thor AA unit that it so desperately needs.
Modify the Thor into a medium sized Warhound with AA and Haywire Missiles to help deal with Immortals and Archons or something in that sense.
Overcharge vs Terran is mostly dominated by the massive 13 range.
40 seconds is still more than enough to deny any kind of pre 10 minute timing.
I'd rather see the range reduced to something like 8 or 9.
This would also provide Tanks with a unique TvP niche in that they can fire on a Overcharged Nexus freely.
Tanks vs Armored isn't the problem, Stalkers and Colossi will melt to Tanks, the problem is everything else.
Just bring the raw damage back to 50 vs all. Zerglings already die to Tanks with +1 anyway and currently I am not aware of any early Marine/Tank timings before +1 so it wouldn't affect Zerg much. (you don't use Hydras vs Tanks)
It would make Marines in Tank fights a lot less useful but is that really super bad?
An increase in the Marauder count would deal with this and Tanks on both sides would deal more damage.
Marine/Marauder/Tank vs Mech would still be fine because of the increased damage against Hellions/Hellbats.
EMP was fine before the nerf for one simple reason: spamming it does nothing.
Once the shields are gone it has little to no effect to EMP any further.
Too many ghosts can thusly be dangerous but mass HT for mass Storm is still deadly.
As for HT vs Ghost I will say the usual: If an HT gets in range first, the Ghost always dies 100% garantueed to Feedback.
Even IF it doesn't, it has no energy left at all and you do not get Ghosts for the auto-attack.
A Ghost that gets an EMP off is still not safe against any HTs with 150+ energy and the HT is not dead and can still freely transform into an Archon, negating the EMP entirely.
Only Snipe works but it has to be applied twice to get a kill and is useless in every other regard.
I don't think working 75 energy into a Ghost is a good change though (no caster has this), I'd rather see EMP radius restored to what it was.
And...honestly said, morphing into an Archon should require a minimum of 25 energy on any one of the High Templars that are used in the joining. Two DTs can morph without any energy requirements but if two HTs were to morph into an Archon, atleast one of them should have 25 energy. That way EMP has a more lasting effect on the unit it is supposed to affect the most.
Or, if that is too harsh, make it so an EMPed HT will mean the morphing Archon has less shields while morphing and when done.
I cringe whenever I see a good Terran lands all the EMPs correctly and the HTs just flip them off, go 'NOPE!' and morph instantly into 360 HP Archons on the spot.
Maybe the 350 shields should built up as the Archon morphs in instead of granting it at 100% immediately?
Roach Burrow I haven't seen, so I'm fine with Blizzard trying this out.
If it turns out OP, they can dial it back until it's just right.
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On January 03 2014 23:28 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 22:21 StatixEx wrote:On January 03 2014 17:30 sagefreke wrote:
Please for the love of god buff Nydus Worms.
Couple suggestions:
1. Remove the alert.
2. Reduce the cost to build structure.
3. Reduce the cost to build Nydus (Worm).
4. Reduce build time to build Nydus (Worm).
5. Make it so multiple worms can be built at a time from one Nydus.
6. Increase the rate that units pop out of the Worm.
Nydus has gotten zero love since release. just make it undetectable on mini map You realize how op it would be ? Roach nydus allin everygame, no way to spot it, instant lose every game. Nydus of 2 bases is already really strong if you don't react fast enough to kill the said nydus, imagine if it is undetectable with on minimap.
Yeah, I am not really sure what protoss would do to stop, but I think prayer would be involved. Maybe they should make it so the worm can't be killed by pulling all your workers. That might make it slightly more viable.
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They are really starting to fucking interfere with this game way too much. It's becoming WoW-like with the rolling nerfs and buffs. Dog chasing its tail.
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"Stop patching the game Blizzard!", cried the protoss icons in unison.
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How about just making nydus accessible earlier? One of the biggest problems I have with zerg is the lack of variety in early game aggression compared to protoss specifically, and terran to some extent. It's pretty much all just basic lair tech units trying to bust the front.
Making nydus a legitimate threat early game would give zerg some more options and give protoss and terran something to worry about apart from a big bust, which tbh is rather easy to both scout and stop.
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On January 03 2014 23:47 Bagi wrote:
"Stop patching the game Blizzard!", cried the protoss icons in unison.
Nah, most protoss don't care that much, except that the nerf to PO might fuck up PvP. I think everyone accepted that it might be to good against early terran aggression. But PvP is always fucked, it doesn't really matter what you do to it.
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PvP fucked you say? You mean if you remove defender's advantage completely from either player, with both players having roughly 12375 ways to kill each other, the match up ends up being really stupid? Surely not.
I have no idea how to salvage PvP at this point, I don't think it should be a concern when making balance changes. It can't be taken into account too much, because it's so wonky that almost anything could throw it off.
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Finland888 Posts
On January 03 2014 23:41 Brett wrote:
They are really starting to fucking interfere with this game way too much. It's becoming WoW-like with the rolling nerfs and buffs. Dog chasing its tail.
They have barely touched the game since HotS. It is actually quite alarming to me how little they have done since release. During WoL we had 3 major patches (1.1.0., 1.2.0. and 1.3.0.) quicker than we have the first major patch in HotS (2.1.0.).
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On January 04 2014 00:11 Frex wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 23:41 Brett wrote:
They are really starting to fucking interfere with this game way too much. It's becoming WoW-like with the rolling nerfs and buffs. Dog chasing its tail. They have barely touched the game since HotS. It is actually quite alarming to me how little they have done since release. During WoL we had 3 major patches (1.1.0., 1.2.0. and 1.3.0.) quicker than we have the first major patch in HotS (2.1.0.).
These major patches were not balance patches, but feature patches, like IU, chats, etc. Since it's pretty good right now, not much change was needed. Now there is 2.1 that will add the f2p aspect but that's pretty much it.
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Finland888 Posts
On January 04 2014 00:17 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 00:11 Frex wrote:On January 03 2014 23:41 Brett wrote:
They are really starting to fucking interfere with this game way too much. It's becoming WoW-like with the rolling nerfs and buffs. Dog chasing its tail. They have barely touched the game since HotS. It is actually quite alarming to me how little they have done since release. During WoL we had 3 major patches (1.1.0., 1.2.0. and 1.3.0.) quicker than we have the first major patch in HotS (2.1.0.). These major patches were not balance patches, but feature patches, like IU, chats, etc. Since it's pretty good right now, not much change was needed. Now there is 2.1 that will add the f2p aspect but that's pretty much it.
You are absolutely wrong. All of the major patches also included balance changes in WoL. The total amount of balance changes in those major patches far exceeds the amount of balance changes we have had so far in HotS. On the top of these balance changes there was even more changes between the major patches. And all of this happened in pretty much the same time frame.
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See the Artosis tweet for why the nerf is warranted (despite me thinking duration change is not the way to go)
I want Time Warp at 100 energy, Recall at 125, Overcharge at 125.
Make a decision on what spell you use, instead of combo's like triple time warp (Blink all in), Recall Overcharge, Time Warp Recall, Double Overcharges, Time Warp Overcharge.
Make spending MSC Energy a real decision, not something you can use at leasure.
Also - I'd like a MSC Movement nerf and sight range decrease - just to make highground vision more of a commitment.
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On January 03 2014 23:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 23:47 Bagi wrote:
"Stop patching the game Blizzard!", cried the protoss icons in unison. Nah, most protoss don't care that much, except that the nerf to PO might fuck up PvP. I think everyone accepted that it might be to good against early terran aggression. But PvP is always fucked, it doesn't really matter what you do to it.
"Protoss don't balance whine"
K.
Not sure how this helps the matchup. Now my attack is delayed 20 second less, still too much.
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I don't think PvP should be nerfed. It's the one matchup where Protoss has trouble early game, it's already so volatile as it is... You never know what Protoss might do to you, so as Protoss you have to have a tool for absolute one-click defense. I'm fine with the roach buff though, as long as you give detection to the mothership core (the unit is really lackluster and could use a buff. We can't only rely on sieged Nexus to do the heavy lifting).
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EPT
