EPTIt will help reduce Protoss offensive but still great defensive unit.
Jan 2nd Balance Test Map - Page 19
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mostwanted
83 Posts
It will help reduce Protoss offensive but still great defensive unit. | ||
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frozzz
Croatia118 Posts
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Brian333
657 Posts
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cptjibberjabber
Netherlands87 Posts
On January 03 2014 20:39 frozzz wrote: emp access would be great to get ghosts earlier in the midagme, its already such an expensive unit that i think starting energy can justify that mech TvP. You don't need vikings since hellbats have so much tanking potential with medivacs. Now you can get ghosts very early to deal with immortals. Problem solved. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12562 Posts
On January 03 2014 20:20 Fjodorov wrote: You made nothing but 2-3 units for the first 9 minutes and love being able to double forge and get all the tech. Now PO might be 40 sec instead of 60 and you are forced to all in every game? what a load of bs Nony expressed the same sentiment a few pages ago... Funnily enough, didn't see you quote him. | ||
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
On January 03 2014 20:52 Brian333 wrote: Seems the PO nerf was done to satisfy the stupid masses and Blizzard totally missed the point. MSC is not the problem, Protoss early game aggression versatility vs. the lack of effective scouting is the problem TvP. The PO nerf hurts PvP more than it helps TvP or ZvP. I totally agree on that. It will hurt PvP, and deosn´t give T or Z more options earlygame. A vision or a casting range nerf for PO would be better in my opinion. | ||
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Moonsalt
267 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
And buffing tanks vs armored is a joke, what are they even thinking, in that case make it PvT specific and give it + vs shield. Also buffing skyterran would be bad since it already is strong vs T and Z. Mech or sky does not need buffs vs Z or T since it is already strong enough. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
Was also hoping for nerfs to oracles and blink stalker strategies, they are obnoxious. Not just because they have the potential to cripple or outright murder the terran but thanks to PO the Protoss has a massive safety net while he waits for storm to finish. But I suppose I'll take whatever I can get. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On January 03 2014 21:20 Plansix wrote: I love how people are getting upset about the proposed buff to tanks vs armored, yet that would make tanks do more damage to the majority protoss ground units. I think we need to see it in action with the EMP buff before we judge. ? Buffing the tank is a very tricky business, since it effects the other MUs so much. It's also silly to buff the unit against the units the tank is actually good against. If it needs buffs, it's against very specific units which it sucks against. Lastly the EMP buff isn't really that helpful I think for mech, atleast not in macro games. Reason is that mech is (normally) a very passive playstyle, so 40 seconds aren't going to make or break if mech works for the most part. Admittedly it might be a very welcome buff for bio. On January 03 2014 21:07 [PkF] Wire wrote: Brian333 and USvBleakill have got the point I think. Nerfing overcharge won't do much outside PvP (which it'll definitely hurt and make more volatile), the problem with TvP is the versatility of P early game. If toss played standard macro builds every game T wouldn't ever complain (or maybe say "fuckin broken deathball colossi templar stupid broken nerf nerf nerf", but hey, they're Terran). The problem is blink all-ins, DTs and oracles that require too much of an appropriate response to be dealt with and aren't that easy to scout and to adapt to. Blizzard must work to give T a safer early game against P, not to give P an unsafer early game. I heavily disagree with this. Atleast that terran needs to be safer. I think protoss allins need to be easier to scout _or_ the defense needs to be less specific. That being said, I really don't like killing allins alltogether like the MSC and the queen buff have done to a large extent. I'm not really much of an alliner and I hate getting allined, but it's a part of the game and it makes the first ~10 minutes a lot more fun and exciting imo. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 03 2014 21:26 Zarahtra wrote: ? Buffing the tank is a very tricky business, since it effects the other MUs so much. It's also silly to buff the unit against the units the tank is actually good against. If it needs buffs, it's against very specific units which it sucks against. Lastly the EMP buff isn't really that helpful I think for mech, atleast not in macro games. Reason is that mech is (normally) a very passive playstyle, so 40 seconds aren't going to make or break if mech works for the most part. Admittedly it might be a very welcome buff for bio. I don't think buffing the tank against units that are effective against it is a good plan. Units need to have weakness. Tanks already do a lot of damage to stalkers, colossi and other armored units, but they don't do it fast enough. A buff against those units could allow them to get their dark business done quick enough to win the fight. And easier access to EMP would help that as well, since EMP takes the wind out of stalkers and immortals. | ||
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
also, with the photon overcharge nerf not only PvP will be even worse, also speedling all ins will come back every game in PvZ YAY ALL I EVER WANTED | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On January 03 2014 21:34 Plansix wrote: I don't think buffing the tank against units that are effective against it is a good plan. Units need to have weakness. Tanks already do a lot of damage to stalkers, colossi and other armored units, but they don't do it fast enough. A buff against those units could allow them to get their dark business done quick enough to win the fight. And easier access to EMP would help that as well, since EMP takes the wind out of stalkers and immortals. Ok good, then we agree. And I do agree with you that units should have weaknesses, but the problem with the tank is that it's weakness is such a massive one that it's strengths just aren't worth it a majority of the time I do however disagree with you that tanks don't do their dmg fast enough. I think their damage against armored units is quite fine, they massacre stalkers and colossi alike, the problem just comes from immos, archons and to lesser extent chargelots(and the eventual switch to air which is imo to strong with the support of hts). And yeah again, the EMP buff is not easier access, but just moving a timing of like 18 minutes to 19 minutes. It's effects on TvP mech games will be minimal at best. Edit: Ugh nvm I misread your first sentence, then we completely disagree  | ||
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SamuelGreen
Sweden292 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On January 03 2014 21:42 myRZeth wrote: more player reactions https://twitter.com/ESC_ShoWTimE/status/419045901001179136 also, with the photon overcharge nerf not only PvP will be even worse, also speedling all ins will come back every game in PvZ YAY ALL I EVER WANTED Speedling all ins were not very common even before the MSC existed. And 40 secs is more than enough vs lings, by the time overcharge expires the lings will be dead or the protoss will be. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 03 2014 21:46 Zarahtra wrote: Ok good, then we agree. And I do agree with you that units should have weaknesses, but the problem with the tank is that it's weakness is such a massive one that it's strengths just aren't worth it a majority of the time I do however disagree with you that tanks don't do their dmg fast enough. I think their damage against armored units is quite fine, they massacre stalkers and colossi alike, the problem just comes from immos, archons and to lesser extent chargelots(and the eventual switch to air which is imo to strong with the support of hts). And yeah again, the EMP buff is not easier access, but just moving a timing of like 18 minutes to 19 minutes. It's effects on TvP mech games will be minimal at best. From the notes it sounds like they have not made up their mind yet, but want to buff the DPS vs armored for tanks, make EMP easier to get earlier and more effective and making mech do more damage to air units. All that stuff sounds pretty good on paper and will go to make mech more well rounded. Edit: I also like the people who keep demanding they rework protoss in the next patch. Personally, I want them to mod in heroes, because I think that would make the game cooler and its about as reasonable a request. | ||
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FrozenProbe
Italy276 Posts
"Guys, we've finally understood what you (as a community) told to us for the last 3 years (4 soon™). So for the next 6 months we won't do shit about the game, we'll take the protoss race and we'll replace or tweak colossi, MSC, sentries and void-rays in order to create a race capable of playing in an rts game. Then we'll look at the other races and we'll tweak something for them in order to rebalance the game entirely. LotV is coming (Soon™)." but yeah, sentries, colossi, MSC.. they're awesome.. aren't they? :facepalm: | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On January 03 2014 21:53 FrozenProbe wrote: Instead of throwing nosense buff to random units, why they don't step back saying: "Guys, we've finally understood what you (as a community) told to us for the last 3 years (4 soon™). So for the next 6 months we won't do shit about the game, we'll take the protoss race and we'll replace or tweak colossi, MSC, sentry and void-rays in order to create a race capable of playing in an rts game. Then we'll look at the other races and we'll tweak something for them in order to rebalance the game entirely. LotV is coming (Soon™)." but yeah, sentries, colossi, MSC.. they're awesome.. aren't they? :facepalm: Do they have resources for such big changes? I think they don't - because of the way how HotS was released(It's not a stand-alone game ;-)) As much as I agree I don't think Blizzard will do anything big since they don't have enough money to do this. And I think we all can agree that LotV is a great opportunity to redo P race  Edit> I mean Blizzard SC2 team, not Blizzard as a company | ||
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